Apologies if this was posted already. Giants talk is halfway down the article although even the take on Dez Bryant is interesting.
While I can't completely absolve Ereck Flowers, Justin Pugh, Weston Richburg, John Jerry and Bobby Hart from blame for the team's dismal 0-2 start, I'm here to tell you the Giants' woes primarily fall on the shoulders of Ben McAdoo, Eli Manning and an underachieving set of pass catchers and ball carriers who've failed to live up to the hype that preceded the season.
My film study and some close statistical analysis suggests the team's front line is being unfairly blamed for all the Giants' woes when it's really the skill guys who are consistently coming up short. From Manning's struggles with accuracy, ball placement and decisiveness to the pass catchers' problems creating separation and holding onto the ball to the running backs' lack of explosiveness between the tackles, New York's offensive ineptitude can be pinned on a number of factors that have little to do with the play of the big boys up front. |
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The more you read.... I want to hibernate and just make this season go away.
Read the article. I get that stats can be misleading but that's all we have to go on. The rbs are god awful. I don't care how bad an OL is the rbs have to make a play just once. Ours don't. Ever.
I criticized Eli for his play several times but he has also played well at times particularly in the second half of both games when the protection improved.
RBs, Oline, and coaching judgement are the biggest culprets here.
Read the article. I get that stats can be misleading but that's all we have to go on. The rbs are god awful. I don't care how bad an OL is the rbs have to make a play just once. Ours don't. Ever.
I agree. RBs playing against the Giants gets 4 yards after being hit at the line of scrimmage. They break tackles. The plow forward to get the first down on 3rd and 1. The Giants RBs just fall down.
The Giants RB's are finesse guys, not pounders, though Darkwa is a more physical journeyman. Once again, you get what you take!
But yeah, WR's need to receive. Though I'm not sure a lack of separation is entirely on them and unrelated to their roots. Sheppard is getting blasted as soon as he touches the ball.
Like I said, there's plenty of blame to go around.
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Hasn't one of the major gripes this week been that they are running too much 11 personnel and NOT giving the help that they should? Ellison and the FBs are rarely on the field, so who's helping? Engram is out running routes on most plays.
Ellison was supposed to help the offensive line in pass protection and run-blocking, but he simply hasn't been on the field enough to make an impact. Engram has flashed his ability as a receiver, but he predictably isn't much of a factor as a blocker.
The Giants were in 11 personnel (one running back, one tight end, three wide receivers) on 42 snaps in Monday's game, according to Pro Football Focus. They used two-tight end sets on 11 snaps and they had three snaps with two backs and one or no tight ends.
Correcting myself that Perkins got the start Week 17. Still, my point still stands that they are pretty bad to take that long to beat out a guy who is no longer rostered anywhere.
You don't buy it because you have a preconceived notion. While the line has not been good, the RBs don't run with authority, the WRs have dropped passes and Eli is Eli is Eli - inaccurate, throws too many passes short of the 1st down line, misses too many open receivers and hears too many footsteps on too many downs.
Play calling sucks too.
When an offense struggles like this it's due to a system wide failure more than one or two or even three bad olinemen.
When an offense struggles like this it's due to a system wide failure more than one or two or even three bad olinemen.
I've been saying this since the Dallas game and it comes off as a pass for the OL. It's not - they're not great, they're just not as bad as they look. And when they do protect, the Giants are not making plays.
There's blame for everyone here, nobody walks away clean. McAdoo, Eli, the WRs, the OL, RBs - everyone can do better than they have thus far, and they're all partly to blame for this mess, even if it is the OL by a bigger margin than other positions.
What in the world does a single back formation and three WR do for our offense? If we had a play making running back like Tiki or Barry Sanders then maybe we could expect some running plays to work every now and again. But Jennings didn’t ever really make those kinds of plays, and Perk and the other JAGs don’t seem to either. (Though McAdoo seems to have given up on the run entirely at this point). Is McAdoo allergic to an I formation? If teams had to even think about a running play of four or more yards they might get out this two high safety coverage that has completely vexed the offensive genius Ben McAdoo. What in the world is the matter with this guy that he keeps running the same plays over and over again?
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While there's plenty of blame to go around, this smacks of writing something to write something. The OL deserves a big, fat helping of blame!
You don't buy it because you have a preconceived notion. While the line has not been good, the RBs don't run with authority, the WRs have dropped passes and Eli is Eli is Eli - inaccurate, throws too many passes short of the 1st down line, misses too many open receivers and hears too many footsteps on too many downs.
Play calling sucks too.
Another genius who doesn't watch the games...
So Eli is running the patterns now too..?
Part of it is on the receivers for not going deep enough....part of it is on Eli, where a receiver has to reach back, jump high, or in some cases dive for the ball.....Eli is not at his best when it comes to short passes....he has to hit these guys in stride more.....
2. Teams haven't blitzed through two games. So maybe on average Eli has a fraction of a second longer to throw, but he's also throwing into 7 guys in coverage.
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the separation issue seems very real on these garbage 5 yard high school league routes (McAdoo).
Not surprising. Outside of Beckham, we have no speed or quickness. Adding Marshall and Ellison only exacerbated the issue.
Engram would probably take exception to that assertion.
And I've been a fan for over 40 years.
This sh!t is brutal!
as like with PFF which everyone lives and dies with on here as explanations or truths..etc etc.
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the separation issue seems very real on these garbage 5 yard high school league routes (McAdoo).
Not surprising. Outside of Beckham, we have no speed or quickness. Adding Marshall and Ellison only exacerbated the issue.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think Shepard is all that good. It seems like he's not open very much. When he does get a catch, he doesn't get much YAC. Meh.
I think Shep has more than enough tools to be a solid contributor in an Offense.
Just wish we could find one...
Good post. It's not just about time but also resources, and it seems whatever pressure we get is with 3-4 DL and little else
Also much like a 2 yrs back, it seems a perfect storm of suck. Start with Eli's happy feet (right or wrong), leading to mediocre accuracy on avg, then of course blown up OL plays, horrible RB vision since AB, mediocre-to-useless TEs however better they are for 2017, even top WRs dropping multiple easy catches (did we have 3-4 last game alone?). Not a lot to hang your hat on there, esp when this inefficiency leads directly to negative impacts on the ST / Def units. And coaching / playcall doesn't seem like it's helping a lot, even given these deficiencies
Clearly I'm not ready to singularly blame Eli. But have never absolved him (IMO he's not 'elite' but that's no the convo here). If he could just improve his accuracy / touch - not an easy task given all the other factors such as protection, decision making, WRs etc - the whole ship would be significantly righted esp in this O. We've heard how his arm strength improved 1-2 offseasons (tho it didn't manifest appreciably in games), but little else specifically save confidence. This one improvement however difficult to make would be a huge difference for team production and success as well as Eli's individual legacy. For all the times we champion Eli's smarts, this is rarely discussed as a key issue save to say "he throws a lot of INTs." If nothing else it's been one of the biggest differences between Peyton & Eli, so you'd think an obvious one for him if not experts
one thing about Rodgers (macadoo connection) he can be downright hostetler-esque.
for those that don't remember, hostetler was very decisive, he sees something...boom, he sprints downfield.
couple of those can cure what ails you, typically against the grain and wide open space.
all that said, I have been preaching outside zone run blocking and play action since spring
Just watching the games you can see defenders putting serious pressure on Eli nearly every play.
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While there's plenty of blame to go around, this smacks of writing something to write something. The OL deserves a big, fat helping of blame!
This. Fix the line and we'll see how good/bad the others are.
Guys. This team is on pace to obliterate offensive records for futility. Get that? It's not only the oline. My god.... do you really think a good oline makes all the problems disappear?? It's never that simple when an offense struggles this much. Cmon think.
Consider this:
1) Ds can get pressure with 4 or even 3 DL
2) Ds can wreck run blocking with 7 or even 6 in the box (I think even 5)
3) Because of this, Ds can leave 7 or 8 in coverage regularly
4) And Eli and the WRs (and Mac) have to draw up and rely on quick, short routes or risk a catastrophic play
5) And when the ball does get beyond the LOS, there are 7 or 8 guys waiting to fill within 20 yards
6) And on top of all that, going back to 1, Ds are getting pressure on, sacking and hitting Eli all day, which is a very bad outcome in and of itself.
Yes, the RBs suck, too and are part of the problem. And yes, there have been a few errant or dropped passes. But the reason this team can't crack 20 fucking points is the OL. Plain and simple - it is historically bad and causing the rest of the O to jam up entirely.
Consider this:
1) Ds can get pressure with 4 or even 3 DL
2) Ds can wreck run blocking with 7 or even 6 in the box (I think even 5)
3) Because of this, Ds can leave 7 or 8 in coverage regularly
4) And Eli and the WRs (and Mac) have to draw up and rely on quick, short routes or risk a catastrophic play
5) And when the ball does get beyond the LOS, there are 7 or 8 guys waiting to fill within 20 yards
6) And on top of all that, going back to 1, Ds are getting pressure on, sacking and hitting Eli all day, which is a very bad outcome in and of itself.
Yes, the RBs suck, too and are part of the problem. And yes, there have been a few errant or dropped passes. But the reason this team can't crack 20 fucking points is the OL. Plain and simple - it is historically bad and causing the rest of the O to jam up entirely.
This is the point, everything is realtive and stats don't tell the whole story. This is a very sloppy report, probably more opinion. When you get to the QB in 2.5-3 seconds rushing 3 or 4, thats more effective than blitzing and getting there in the same time. Now the D has 7 or 8 playing against our 4 receivers. Eli has no where to go. If the OL wasn't so crappy it could give Eli 5 seconds against 3 or 4 man lines. I would bet the teams getting to the QB in 2.63 seconds are blitzing at least on player.
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the separation issue seems very real on these garbage 5 yard high school league routes (McAdoo).
Not surprising. Outside of Beckham, we have no speed or quickness. Adding Marshall and Ellison only exacerbated the issue.
This is bad information almost entirely.