just does not get it...where are his supposedly great parents in all of this?
He is a great player but my wanting him on the Giants for a long time etc. is beginning to wane. He does not understand that you do not win championships with diva WRs. You win with great offensive and defensive lines, great coaching and effective quarterback play. With all due respect to Eli, I thought we had one of those but now I am not sure we have any of those.
At the point of Beckham's TD yesterday, this team played 11+ quarters scoring only 2 touchdowns. And on those 2 touchdowns, the celebrations both resulted in unsportsmanlike penalties from a player grabbing his balls and a player pretending to piss on the opponent's field. 2 touchdowns in 11 quarters should be embarrassing enough not to celebrate, let alone celebrate in this way costing the team precious yardage - especially considering they were still losing after both of these touchdowns.
It's an embarrassment. I've always felt over the years the Giants were better than this.
At the point of Beckham's TD yesterday, this team played 11+ quarters scoring only 2 touchdowns. And on those 2 touchdowns, the celebrations both resulted in unsportsmanlike penalties from a player grabbing his balls and a player pretending to piss on the opponent's field. 2 touchdowns in 11 quarters should be embarrassing enough not to celebrate, let alone celebrate in this way costing the team precious yardage - especially considering they were still losing after both of these touchdowns.
It's an embarrassment. I've always felt over the years the Giants were better than this.
He does not understand that you do not win championships with diva WRs.
?
Umm, his point is still 100% valid. We had a QB, a line, TE's, RB's tied to that very photo you show. So, yeah, you don't with SOLELY with a diva WR which was his point!
RE: RE: Plaxico not a great example considering how that ended... Â
Is there anyone out there who still thinks the boat trip before the playoff game followed up by lousy performance in the game wasnt a big deal?
Enough is enough. Suspension, penalties, acting like a jerkoff.
And before anyone makes the comparison, please don't mention LT. Beckham is not near LT's level.
ahh so its ok to like LT because he won 2 superbowls but beckham is a cancer because giants have not won a superbowl with him...
makes sense, lets ignore everything lt did
I'm not saying he's a cancer and i'm not saying LT was a saint. I'm saying the lack of self/team awareness and the celebrations by he and Engram were fucking embarrassing.
Is there anyone out there who still thinks the boat trip before the playoff game followed up by lousy performance in the game wasnt a big deal?
Enough is enough. Suspension, penalties, acting like a jerkoff.
And before anyone makes the comparison, please don't mention LT. Beckham is not near LT's level.
ahh so its ok to like LT because he won 2 superbowls but beckham is a cancer because giants have not won a superbowl with him...
makes sense, lets ignore everything lt did
Your point is crap. LT did everything possible to WIN games on the field. Off the field he was an idiot and very self destructive! On the field he was a Monster. He would not put up with his offensive teammates costing his team and defense yards and momentum because you want to self indulge your idiotic need to be above the team!
Yea long week because the Beckham fan boys are all smarter Â
Beckham is a double edged sword. This team will live and die with his talent and his propensity to completely blow up during the game, unsettling the offense, the sideline and them team overall.
Also said he should be fined.Said it's a team sport not just about him. Guess if Carl and some others were on this team they would of tried to "straighten him out:
Though I think the NFL is different now. Miss guys like Banks.
I don't know what he said - seemed emotionless for the most part so it could've been just about anything, but 'where was McAdoo in all of this' seems a bit unfair considering that was the last of his shenanigans for the day.
who works are tirelessly and as hard as OBJ works any day of the week. Ever see him take a play off?
Amazing that with the team 0-3 and only playing one decent quarter of football in 12, so many fans are ripping the player is who is responsible for 50% of the TDs and performing two circus catches few in the league can make.
I'm not for that type of celebration either, 100% not for it. I'm also not going to let it be the only thing that defines a player. Von Miller literally cost his team the game yesterday with a stupid unsportsman like conduct penalty against the Bills. But no one is going to tar and feather Von Miller because his act wasn't lewd. It's Monday, we're all pissed about Sunday, can we just let the dust settle a bit. OBJ had nothing to do with the loss yesterday, and literally was more than half the reason the Giants had a chance to win.
miss the point. Football starts with your offensive and defensive line. As we have seen with this team for the past number of years, with Beckham, as great as he is, if you do not have those other two things you will not go anywhere. that is the point I am trying to make.
Now, do you also have to have playmakers...yes, you do. But, they do not have to be of Beckham's type or Terrell Owens to win. New England has proved that over and over.
We can win without Beckham quite easily provided we have a solid offensive line and a good defensive line. You do not need a star WR. They are nice to have but not necessary.
RE: giving players more liberties when celebrating Â
and they come up with imitating dogs uninating is almost beyond belief, the sheppard does his dog or cat wipe after his score. pretty disgusting
I am typically one on favor of letting the players celebrate, but where this team and more specifically offense has been recently I thought these guys would handle it better. First two tds of the season, which felt like a massive accomplishment and 2 15 yard penalties.
miss the point. Football starts with your offensive and defensive line. As we have seen with this team for the past number of years, with Beckham, as great as he is, if you do not have those other two things you will not go anywhere. that is the point I am trying to make.
Now, do you also have to have playmakers...yes, you do. But, they do not have to be of Beckham's type or Terrell Owens to win. New England has proved that over and over.
We can win without Beckham quite easily provided we have a solid offensive line and a good defensive line. You do not need a star WR. They are nice to have but not necessary.
New England has Brady and Bellichick (probably the best QB and Coach in NFL history), and almost won one with the biggest diva WR ever, if it wasn't for those pesky Coughlin led Giants.
We need to win a game man. Just one to change the narrative around this group.
I don't understand coming out of that game yesterday complaining about Odell Beckham
I don't either - but there are guys on this site that just hate the player so much that any time they're frustrated about the Giants, they immediately turn their attention to him.
How anyone could possibly think he had a hand in us losing that game is beyond me... but that's what we've got here.
aside from the celebrations, what the hell was he doing on the bench, alone, taunting the crowd, pumping himself up? Acting like an idiot. It's not the first time either.
That was some strange stuff.
RE: 'This team will live and die with his talent' Â
Odd choice for the Giants to make. They could've improved the offensive line, brought in a RB, made the team more multifaceted.
Well, they did bring in a TE and FB. They drafted a pass catching TE. They should have done something to improve the OL, but was everyone after Perkins' head after last season? If anything, people wanted a short yardage back to complement him.
Granted, the moves (or lack of) backfired - Perkins has regressed, we're not using Ellison or Smith enough, and the OL has gone to shit. But it's not for lack of trying to add diversity to the O, it's because the attempt has failed thus far.
aside from the celebrations, what the hell was he doing on the bench, alone, taunting the crowd, pumping himself up? Acting like an idiot. It's not the first time either.
That was some strange stuff.
Man, it's a generational thing. I see it from young men in their 20s all the time. Not that I don't think it is odd, but I see it every week.
I guess Carl Banks doesn't know what he's talking about Â
Is there anyone out there who still thinks the boat trip before the playoff game followed up by lousy performance in the game wasnt a big deal?
Enough is enough. Suspension, penalties, acting like a jerkoff.
And before anyone makes the comparison, please don't mention LT. Beckham is not near LT's level.
ahh so its ok to like LT because he won 2 superbowls but beckham is a cancer because giants have not won a superbowl with him...
makes sense, lets ignore everything lt did
Your point is crap. LT did everything possible to WIN games on the field. Off the field he was an idiot and very self destructive! On the field he was a Monster. He would not put up with his offensive teammates costing his team and defense yards and momentum because you want to self indulge your idiotic need to be above the team!
you mean doing coke before games was doing everything to win games? you mean being suspended by the nfl for 4 games is doing everything to win?
so beckham doesnt play hks hardest to win games? what a load of bullshit, every single one of his teammates say he is the hardest worker on the team
I don't think Banks is wrong, but this whole discussion just highlights the wide disparity between the over 40 crowd and the under 30 crowd. I'm with the over 40 crowd, but these young men today are operating on a whole nother wave length. I think it is odd, and downright troubling, but such is the way of the world.
I'm tired of your chickenshit games! I don't want hints! I need to know what you know!
Once, at a gathering, I saw Beckham put his hand over a candle, and keep it there. He kept it right in the flame until his flesh seared. A woman who was watching asked, "What's the trick?" And he replied. "The trick is not minding."
RE: I can understand being annoyed with him for the pissing dog Â
Putting your team in a detrimental position for attention whoring purposes is absolutely being a shitty teammate. I love Beckham and think he's going to be an all-timer, but I wish he'd control himself a bit more.
I wish they didn't fine players for the celebrations, but they know the rules - don't get a penalty. It's stupid and hurts the team.
I'd also add Odell gets super lazy when run blocking. Plaxico was a very good run blocker, as was Nicks, IIRC.
There should have been some discussion of the penalty on Double E last week, costing us 15 yards after a td....and it should have been reinforced by the coaching staff during the week....
So what happens on the first TD, OBj must think those rules don't apply to him, never mind the stupid gesture he made.....
Sorry OBj, we applaud you for the plays you make....but then it becomes all about you and not the team, afterwards....
You want to celebrate, do it behind your bench, where you make yourself look more like a child, than a grown man....
Putting your team in a detrimental position for attention whoring purposes is absolutely being a shitty teammate. I love Beckham and think he's going to be an all-timer, but I wish he'd control himself a bit more.
I wish they didn't fine players for the celebrations, but they know the rules - don't get a penalty. It's stupid and hurts the team.
I'd also add Odell gets super lazy when run blocking. Plaxico was a very good run blocker, as was Nicks, IIRC.
Beckham is a double edged sword. This team will live and die with his talent and his propensity to completely blow up during the game, unsettling the offense, the sideline and them team overall.
I don't need to be a fanboy of anyone to callout the incessant whining over everything X player does. This site is bogged down by posters like you who need to start thread after thread after thread repeating the same thing over and over again. If you think that makes you a better fan or more knowledgeable or shows that you care more, then you couldn't be more wrong.
Beckham needs to grow up. We also don't have a prayer of winning yesterday without him. Which is more important?
When Antonio Brown costs the Steelers 15 yards for his ridiculous celebrations, do I hear anyone saying that Tomlin has lost the team or the Steelers lack discipline? No I don't. Why?
Probably because Tomlin has been to the big game twice, one once, and produces a perenial contender. Why do I bring this up? Because it is about winning, and winning cures everything. So Al Davis was right, Just Win Baby.
RE: RE: I guess Carl Banks doesn't know what he's talking about Â
I don't think Banks is wrong, but this whole discussion just highlights the wide disparity between the over 40 crowd and the under 30 crowd. I'm with the over 40 crowd, but these young men today are operating on a whole nother wave length. I think it is odd, and downright troubling, but such is the way of the world.
Just score TDs, and keep it PG-13
I think it's unfair to paint the under 30 crowd with the same brush as Beckham. I pointed out on another thread that Deshaun Watson (younger than Beckham) did some incredible things yesterday and did not incur any unsportsmanlike penalties. And I'm sure the same can be said for many other players around the league.
I don't think Beckham is a fool because he's 24. I think he's just a fool.
is as childish as he is talented, which makes him a very polarizing person. He works hard, his teammates like him, and his hands are incredible. But he's histrionic, and always wants to be the center of attention. What he did yesterday was disgusting and selfish.
RE: RE: Yea long week because the Beckham fan boys are all smarter Â
Beckham is a double edged sword. This team will live and die with his talent and his propensity to completely blow up during the game, unsettling the offense, the sideline and them team overall.
I don't need to be a fanboy of anyone to callout the incessant whining over everything X player does. This site is bogged down by posters like you who need to start thread after thread after thread repeating the same thing over and over again. If you think that makes you a better fan or more knowledgeable or shows that you care more, then you couldn't be more wrong.
Beckham needs to grow up. We also don't have a prayer of winning yesterday without him. Which is more important?
You make me proud to be a Husky. Great clarity. Agree totally.
You can't brag about Eli's stats and then bash Beckham Â
if he decides to do another unnecessary celebration I hope he dies or at least gets paralyzed. Am I right, bros?
If BBI had signatures, at least 10 people would choose this.
I LOVE Odell and I thought his penalty/celebration was stupid and sophomoric. Nothing wrong with calling out individual stupidity, but let's not get crazy and take it beyond that.
until the 2nd of the season where I would have grabbed Engram by the face mask for getting that dumb penalty for
the obscene gesture at our own fans to boot .
Then address the entire team to stop with putting themselves
in front of the team as did OBJ with his little dog piss
gesture . handing the other team field position id dumb
McHandley didn't address it .
I don't think Banks is wrong, but this whole discussion just highlights the wide disparity between the over 40 crowd and the under 30 crowd. I'm with the over 40 crowd, but these young men today are operating on a whole nother wave length. I think it is odd, and downright troubling, but such is the way of the world.
Just score TDs, and keep it PG-13
I think it's unfair to paint the under 30 crowd with the same brush as Beckham. I pointed out on another thread that Deshaun Watson (younger than Beckham) did some incredible things yesterday and did not incur any unsportsmanlike penalties. And I'm sure the same can be said for many other players around the league.
I don't think Beckham is a fool because he's 24. I think he's just a fool.
What I mean is the younger crowd looks at these antics very differently than the older crowd. Not that 20 somethings all act alike. Older folks, like myself and others, look at the celebration yesterday as disgusting and inappropriate. Younger folks usually shrug it off and either say just play football or that's OBJ being OBJ. The older generation puts more stock in the sportsmanship arguments.
RE: I can understand being annoyed with him for the pissing dog Â
I can understand wishing he'd cut that nonsense out. I don't understand wanting him off the team because of such silly stuff.
Truthfully, I am concerned that we will spend a ton to keep a guy who will not be the answer to SB's. Perhaps getting rid of him is more harsh than the sentiment here. Its funny how fans turna blind eye to their own teams or favorite players but skewer others who do the same. OBJ has some personality flaws that are showing up on the field. We ignore a lot when we win but to be honest isn't that what Jerry Reese did this offseason. He ignored the Oline becuase we "won" games last year and felt like we needed other areas first so he ignored the Oline issues. We are ignoring OBJ's issues because he puts up TDs and is a star WR. But, the issues are there and if they don't get better and the team gets worse more and more people will be unable to ignore it.
There is an actual answer to this. Think about the most consistent winning teams from year to year. Patriots, Packers and Steelers come to mind. Anyone on those teams act like this? No. As great as a talent that OBJ is, we still stink with him. How much worse would our record be? Exactly. No one is saying not to celebrate. However, the way he does it is all to get himself attention. At the end of the day, football more than any other sport, is a team game. His behavior is unfortunately not conducive to winning.
There is an actual answer to this. Think about the most consistent winning teams from year to year. Patriots, Packers and Steelers come to mind. Anyone on those teams act like this? No. As great as a talent that OBJ is, we still stink with him. How much worse would our record be? Exactly. No one is saying not to celebrate. However, the way he does it is all to get himself attention. At the end of the day, football more than any other sport, is a team game. His behavior is unfortunately not conducive to winning.
exactly! What I posted earlier.
I do have one question though
Emil : 11:48 am : link : reply
When Antonio Brown costs the Steelers 15 yards for his ridiculous celebrations, do I hear anyone saying that Tomlin has lost the team or the Steelers lack discipline? No I don't. Why?
Probably because Tomlin has been to the big game twice, one once, and produces a perenial contender. Why do I bring this up? Because it is about winning, and winning cures everything. So Al Davis was right, Just Win Baby.
More and more we are seeing he is an asshole. I do not care how good you are in any sport. I do not root for players like that. I specifically pointed out to my children, that is not how you act.
RE: The problem is, some of us have trouble rooting for an asshole Â
More and more we are seeing he is an asshole. I do not care how good you are in any sport. I do not root for players like that. I specifically pointed out to my children, that is not how you act.
Why is everyone such an abosolutist? Would an a-hole go visit a kid dying of cancer to fulfill his dying wish? More to the man than a simple TD celebration.
RE: The problem is, some of us have trouble rooting for an asshole Â
More and more we are seeing he is an asshole. I do not care how good you are in any sport. I do not root for players like that. I specifically pointed out to my children, that is not how you act.
So basically you don't watch professional sports, then?
I've never once suggested getting rid of Beckham. Â
But what would it take for this guy to just play football?
Pissing like a dog after a TD is an act of passion? Carrying on with a kicking net for nearly a month last year? How many times can this guy scream me, me, me! Like a child.
Jerry Reese basically tells the kid to grow up at last year's season ending presser. Carl Banks (who I think we all can agree is level headed and knowledgeable) calls for a fine for conduct DETRIMENTAL to the team and still many take the attitude of "nothing to see here!"
RE: The problem is, some of us have trouble rooting for an asshole Â
More and more we are seeing he is an asshole. I do not care how good you are in any sport. I do not root for players like that. I specifically pointed out to my children, that is not how you act.
No one thinks David Diehl is an asshole and he drove drunk and hit a bunch of parked cars and could've seriously injured someone. You have to keep this in some sort of perspective.
Did Carl say he should be traded? What's Carl got to say about your asinine plan to buil d a team full of minimum wage misfits in order to save cap money?
More and more we are seeing he is an asshole. I do not care how good you are in any sport. I do not root for players like that. I specifically pointed out to my children, that is not how you act.
So basically you don't watch professional sports, then?
LOL! In a field full of deadbeat dads, drunk drivers, women beaters, showboats - you don't want to root for players who are assholes.
I don't know if we're going to find 53 we can field.
There is an actual answer to this. Think about the most consistent winning teams from year to year. Patriots, Packers and Steelers come to mind. Anyone on those teams act like this? No. As great as a talent that OBJ is, we still stink with him. How much worse would our record be? Exactly. No one is saying not to celebrate. However, the way he does it is all to get himself attention. At the end of the day, football more than any other sport, is a team game. His behavior is unfortunately not conducive to winning.
Antonio Brown?
Let's talk about this team specifically. Are Odell's actions why the o-line can't block? Are Odell's action why Eli Apple can't find the ball in the air? Are Odell's actions why we find ourselves dead last in rush defense? Are Odell's actions why Eli throws questionable interceptions? Eli did that long before Odell ever came along.
Production is conducive to winning. He produces. Other people aren't and that's the real problem. How people act on the Patriots isn't my concern. Belichick knowingly signed someone who killed a person. He's knowingly signed people with issues of drunk driving and weed smoking. Those don't sound "conducive to winning", but when he gets people to perform, they win anyway. The Packers brought back a guy who served time after originally being charged with possession and intent to sell.
So many get defensive of criticism directed at this guy.
Why can t a fan enjoy his great talent especially when it helps the team win, and not approved of all the immaturity.
We on this site used to kill Desean Jackson. He s a choir boy next to Beckham as far as being a hotdog
That isn't what's happening though. That's completely my stance but I get called a fanboy when stating it. Is it some weird coincidence that the OP didn't respond to my last post calling him out?
He also appears to be mentally ill. His behavior during games is completely out of control. But there is only one rule in the NFL and that rule is talent equals tolerance. So as long as he's healthy and scoring TD's he can do whatever he wants.
I didnt see anyone on the sidelines reprimanding him? where the hell are the coaches and the veterans? and these antics serve as tolerable examples for our children?? Societal shortcomings, so sad....
RE: I can understand being annoyed with him for the pissing dog Â
I can understand wishing he'd cut that nonsense out. I don't understand wanting him off the team because of such silly stuff.
Ditto. On another thread someone actually said there are plenty of WRs with his ability. I couldn't tell if it was tongue in cheek or not.
I am not happy with his behavior, especially in light of his past issues. He doesn't seem to have learned a damn thing or matured at all. Many here speculate that Coughlin's handling of Beckham (or lack thereof) in the Panthers game strongly contributed to his firing. If that's the case, McAdoo's seeming refusal to address Beckham's behavior (or at least publicly) should be potential trouble for him as well.
He also appears to be mentally ill. His behavior during games is completely out of control. But there is only one rule in the NFL and that rule is talent equals tolerance. So as long as he's healthy and scoring TD's he can do whatever he wants.
These are the posts I have to laugh at. Do you know what mentally ill actually means? Celebrating, no matter how stupid it may be is now what we should call mentally ill?
Vontaze Burdict is the dirtiest player in the NFL and I wouldn't even call him mentally ill. He's an example of an asshole.
Because I think part of the reason Rice is the GOT is because he was all business.
But you have to realize a lot of great DBs and WRs are just attention seekers: it started with Deion and Randy Moss and has grown over time.
But I also think their is a racial perceptual component: Favre used to celebrate wildly racing down the field and jumping in the air like crazy. But that was taken as a sign of his being a competitor and his love of the game. Or when Hyno and Hedgecock (sp?) did their dances, it was just funny. Whereas with Odell it is seen as disrespect or immaturity
If Odell played for the cowboys, most of you defending his Â
Let's bring back the Thomas Lewises and Chris Calloways of football from the 90's. They knew how to handle themselves when they got in the endzone (which was never).
Because I think part of the reason Rice is the GOT is because he was all business.
But you have to realize a lot of great DBs and WRs are just attention seekers: it started with Deion and Randy Moss and has grown over time.
But I also think their is a racial perceptual component: Favre used to celebrate wildly racing down the field and jumping in the air like crazy. But that was taken as a sign of his being a competitor and his love of the game. Or when Hyno and Hedgecock (sp?) did their dances, it was just funny. Whereas with Odell it is seen as disrespect or immaturity
It's not racial. You can't see the difference between running excited downfield and antics? He has been flagged multiple times a year for his TD celebrations. None of his updates make them any less offensive or any better at sticking to the rules.
RE: If Odell played for the cowboys, most of you defending his Â
Dez kicking and screaming and showing up Romo not just once but several times throughout his career has been a joy to watch. But that's all that us making fun of it doesn't actually matter nor has any effect on the outcome of the game or how the team we root for conducts its business so now what?
RE: RE: I guess Carl Banks doesn't know what he's talking about Â
I am not in any way advocating trading Beckham, however, I read an interesting article on "The Patriot Way" and how they base almost all their moves on money and the cap. They rarely seem to overpay a player and their basic premise seems to be that if they can get 75-80% out of a player earning 50% less they are better off. Those aren't exact numbers just what I can remember off the top of my head, it's an interesting read!
.
Did Carl say he should be traded? What's Carl got to say about your asinine plan to buil d a team full of minimum wage misfits in order to save cap money?
RE: If Odell played for the cowboys, most of you defending his Â
Qualify 'defend' - do you see anyone saying it's OK? Or encouraging him?
Or do you see a bunch of people who take the good with the bad, and won't discard a generational talent because he does some stupid things from time to time?
Qualify 'defend' - do you see anyone saying it's OK? Or encouraging him?
Or do you see a bunch of people who take the good with the bad, and won't discard a generational talent because he does some stupid things from time to time?
Bingo. I think he's an immature idiot. But, I have said many times I think he is the best offensive weapon I've ever seen (watching since about 1979). So, I don't want him going anywhere.
And let's be clear about something - Dez getting in an OC's Â
Qualify 'defend' - do you see anyone saying it's OK? Or encouraging him?
Or do you see a bunch of people who take the good with the bad, and won't discard a generational talent because he does some stupid things from time to time?
Bingo. I think he's an immature idiot. But, I have said many times I think he is the best offensive weapon I've ever seen (watching since about 1979). So, I don't want him going anywhere.
and lead color analyst (not to mention former star player) are saying and yet the hyper sensitive Beckham people are calling out the levels of stupidity on this thread.
smash his hand and wrist against a door while arguing with his wife and had to wear a cast for most of a season? I remember the cast impacting his play considerably and thereby hurting the team. Glass houses.
and lead color analyst (not to mention former star player) are saying and yet the hyper sensitive Beckham people are calling out the levels of stupidity on this thread.
Classic.
You calling out someone else for being 'hyper sensitive' is snowflake-esque. I'm starting to worry for your well being.
and lead color analyst (not to mention former star player) are saying and yet the hyper sensitive Beckham people are calling out the levels of stupidity on this thread.
Classic.
Why do you keep saying "hyper sensitive"? If anyone is it's you. You started this thread and your retort to anyone that doesn't share your view is met with the accusation of being hyper sensitive. You come off like a clown that can't make a point without using a cute buzz word.
Beckham should grow up. He's also the best player on this team and the reason we had a chance to win yesterday. So I'll ask you again, which is more important?
RE: If Odell played for the cowboys, most of you defending his Â
Beckham's skill helps the team win. I'm not denying that.
I'm saying his pointless actions hurt the team. You guys mean to tell me that when Beckham does something good, you're not sitting there holding your breath that he's going to give it back by doing something ridiculous?
I could care less about Beckham personally. I have no "obsession" with him. I am a fan of the Giants and really only like when players do things that help win ballgames.
I'm telling you it's a mixed bag. A lot of you are the ones trying to tell me it's not, which is BS.
To me he is a smart guy who acts like plenty of others playing this game. Attention is positive for the brand and for the networks
If it wasn't, cameras would not be following these guys for TD celebrations and sideline stuff
Yes, I can do without the penalties from celebrations, however, from those in the know, he works hard in practice, gives it his all in games, loved by teammates and does not get into off the field trouble
Is there really a difference between some of the TD celebrations and the Packer leap, which never gets called for a penalty
we aren't telling you it isn't a mixed bag. Instead of just stopping there you continue to call people out for things they didn't say.
I wish Beckham was a choir boy but he isn't. He is who he is and he helps this team far more than he hurts it. You have to think time will allow him to grow up and the things he does outside of football give me hope that he will channel his energy differently. In the grand scheme of things that are wrong with this team, Beckhams TD celebrations aren't even on the list. It really is insignificant, just look at the rest of this teams issues.
on the other Beckham thread. He helps his team immensely more than he hurts his team. He put up two crucial tds to 1 meaningless unsportsmanlike conduct. He is the Giants offense, which is laughable without him. He was the catalyst last year for the Giants offense in winning a bunch of close games that propelled them into the post season.
Just a couple years ago in the Super Bowl, Doug Baldwin celebrated a td by pretending to poop. Did that incite near the amount of fire here as Beckham's celebration? He's not the only guy with post TD antics, but you wouldn't know it with some of these posts.
But this is nothing new. I never viewed the vast majority of them as role models for my children in the first place and if anything, they provide plenty of material to use when teaching your kids how not to act.
So, I recognize that OBJ is a moron, but as a fan of the helmet I also like it when he catches TD passes.
Because I think part of the reason Rice is the GOT is because he was all business.
But you have to realize a lot of great DBs and WRs are just attention seekers: it started with Deion and Randy Moss and has grown over time.
But I also think their is a racial perceptual component: Favre used to celebrate wildly racing down the field and jumping in the air like crazy. But that was taken as a sign of his being a competitor and his love of the game. Or when Hyno and Hedgecock (sp?) did their dances, it was just funny. Whereas with Odell it is seen as disrespect or immaturity
I agree with a lot of your post, but whenever a player involves his dick in his celebration it's disrespectful.
But whipping your Johnson out and swinging it in the air was well within the TD celebration rules, then I'd only get mad at the "Mom wavers".
The pissing dog thing was disgusting, but the thing that made it offensive was that OBJ HAD to know it was going to be an unsportsmanlike penalty...but he didn't care.
Jerry's penalty was "heat of the moment" stupid. OBJ's TD celebration penalties (I think he's had at least 4 of these) are premeditated stupid.
He knows it's going to hurt the team when he's conjuring up his dumb-ass routines, but he does them anyway.
Not sure how anyone can think of these actions as anything but selfish.
antics hurt us because they were a distraction at a time when we were fighting to come back and win. His willingness to do that at such a critical moment proves that Beckham is all about himself. His great play does not excuse that behavior, because there is no excuse.
1. walking on all fours like a dog and simulating peeing
2. black power fist
SMH
I gotta know... which one made you more mad?
Not so much mad, but disappointed with both hence the SMH. I'm for spike the ball or even better toss to the ref and then go celebrate respectfully with your teammates.
Also said he should be fined.Said it's a team sport not just about him. Guess if Carl and some others were on this team they would of tried to "straighten him out:
Though I think the NFL is different now. Miss guys like Banks.
I would like to see how Keith Hamilton would have handled OBJ, Kieth was the enforcer on this team and all player listened to him.....
and they come up with imitating dogs uninating is almost beyond belief, the sheppard does his dog or cat wipe after his score. pretty disgusting
I think he stole this from the movie "The Program". One of the defenders does it in that movie after tackling the back for a loss.
I'm 39, which I guess puts me in the >40 crowd, but while crass, his celebration didn't bother me all that much. I rolled my eyes when it got flagged. I found it equal parts, shocking, humorous, crass, childish and stupid. A lot like Randy Moss' mooning celebration, but less creative.
I'm not sure why OBJ catches as much flack as he does. Plenty of other players have done much worse than he does (someone in another thread referenced Keith Hamilton, who, IIRC, was caught speeding around in an SUV while high as a kite), yet are not villified at all.
If you find the hot-dogging irritating and "offensive", grow thicker skin. I'm not trying to get these guys to raise my kids, I'm smart enough to know it doesn't take a stellar human being to play this violent and barbaric game.
A grown man in spandex pants jumping around like a dumbass is very entertaining. Just don't get penalized for Chrissakes. Getting a penalty for your TD celebration epitomizes the "dumb" play. It seems pathetic, but after EE and OBJ, maybe we need to have a team-meeting about what you can and cannot do to celebrate a TD. I get what OBJ is saying in that sometimes you take a penalty for the greater good of accomplishing a result (here, firing up the team). But that's not the penalty to take. We were lucky they didn't get a great return and fumbled the ball on that possession.
As to celebrations being bad sportsmanship ... "people" (read: Snowflake fans) offended by the lack of "sportsmanship" and yearning for the days of the 70s and before need a reality check.
The league was far dirtier and less sportsmanlike back in the "good 'ole days" (Jack Tatum, Night Train Lane, Dick Butkus). Unless you consider paralyzing and/or trying to injure other players "sportsmanlike"?
Banks is right. Beckham is s total ASSHOLE. One of the most immature self serving athletes I have ever seen. And besides being a shitty coach, McAdoo apparently has no balls either or he would have reamed Beckham for his latest display of me first. Throw in Wally the Wimp at QB and a GM who wouldn't know an offensive lineman if he walked into one and you have a team that's in a state of disarray and ready to tank.
Qualify 'defend' - do you see anyone saying it's OK? Or encouraging him?
Or do you see a bunch of people who take the good with the bad, and won't discard a generational talent because he does some stupid things from time to time?
Yes, I see a lot of posts defending his antics on this site. And if he was on another team they wouldn't be. People would be slamming on him. No doubt he is a great talent. Can't think of a good comparison, Maybe Randy Moss when he was mooning fans? People didn't like him. Odell is bigger attention seeker than TO. It is what it is.
I think 10% are far to one side, 10% are far to the other, and the rest of us 80% are right in the middle.
I like everything he brings to the table as a player, I haven't seen signs of being a bad teammate (although I thought it was lame he bailed on the Duke workouts, but that's well within his rights to do).
I dislike the dumb celebrations and look at me antics. Call me old fart, or old fashioned, or perhaps it's just the former high school coach in me trying desperately to give some young men discipline and teach life lessons through sports....
Either way, he's not going anywhere and I'm fine with it. I'm not fine with it when he costs the team, through unnecessary distraction (the boat trip), or penalty (like yesterday). And that's okay to be in the middle.
I called them dumb celebrations... The dog thing is just dumb. It's not smart, not particularly entertaining, and it drew a penalty. It's just unnecessary.
they rely on Beckham SO much that they can't function without him. This looks like a high school offense without Beckham. Remember the game he was suspended in 2015 in Minnesota? Not sustainable.
Also said he should be fined.Said it's a team sport not just about him. Guess if Carl and some others were on this team they would of tried to "straighten him out:
Though I think the NFL is different now. Miss guys like Banks.
1. Serious question, are you old enough to have seen LT play? It really makes no difference in my point, I'm just wondering. I was 10 years old in 1986. In 1986, you didn't hear about this stuff the instant it happened like you do today. It wasn't until many years after he retired that most fans knew exactly what was going on with LT.
2. In today's NFL, LT would likely have been suspended a full year for repeated violations, if not banned for life.
3. OBJ is being childish. LT was a bad human being. No comparison.
4. Do you really think anybody, knowing what they know now, with the speed and breadth of knowledge that they get it now, would not be on LT if he played for the Giants today, for embarrassing and hurting the franchise?
5. This one is most important to me now, as a father, I would never buy my kid an LT jersey if he played now. LT was a bad person, I hope he's gotten it together.
6. Because we had a bad guy on our team 30 years ago, we're never allowed to criticize a player now?
If you want to argue about Beckham, argue about Beckham. LT really has no bearing on this conversation.
1. Serious question, are you old enough to have seen LT play? It really makes no difference in my point, I'm just wondering. I was 10 years old in 1986. In 1986, you didn't hear about this stuff the instant it happened like you do today. It wasn't until many years after he retired that most fans knew exactly what was going on with LT.
2. In today's NFL, LT would likely have been suspended a full year for repeated violations, if not banned for life.
3. OBJ is being childish. LT was a bad human being. No comparison.
4. Do you really think anybody, knowing what they know now, with the speed and breadth of knowledge that they get it now, would not be on LT if he played for the Giants today, for embarrassing and hurting the franchise?
5. This one is most important to me now, as a father, I would never buy my kid an LT jersey if he played now. LT was a bad person, I hope he's gotten it together.
6. Because we had a bad guy on our team 30 years ago, we're never allowed to criticize a player now?
If you want to argue about Beckham, argue about Beckham. LT really has no bearing on this conversation.
Britt, I don't think addiction makes someone a bad person. I believe LT'S addiction is the main source for the way his life has unfolded.
I've seen a few posters bring up LT in reference to people criticizing Beckham. Of dealt and deals with addiction, Beckham is just being a jackass. I'd say taylor has a better excuse if you will for his actions.
bit that they do have in common - they both did things that were detrimental to the team with their behavioral issues.
LT missed time on the field and was a non-participant (he fell asleep on a routine basis) in meetings. The immediate thought that would pop up would be 'so what, he was LT - look at his performance on the field'.
Well, there's a bit of the same here. OBJ has been penalized and missed a game. His shenanigans can sometimes mentally take him out of a game. In both cases, behavioral issues contributed to performance on the field declining. Both great players, but both somewhat marginalized by these problems.
LT's done now, but OBJ isn't - we can just hope he gets his act together. And just like LT (there were no underaged hooker issues back then, at least none that were public knowledge), he's a flawed character that we root for because ultimately he does seem to be a good guy, and his contributions on the field are outstanding.
but LT did some really scummy things later in life, and you can't excuse those things due to addiction.
Namely 15 year old prostitutes.
In my experience, addiction can control all parts of one's life, although that can't be used as an excuse. The addict must take total responsibility for their actions, while some of us on the outside are sometimes able to tell the difference between the sober personality, and the addict personality. I don't know Lawrence enough to know what was the main source behind his actions, but I do know an addict basically has two personalities.
1. Serious question, are you old enough to have seen LT play? It really makes no difference in my point, I'm just wondering. I was 10 years old in 1986. In 1986, you didn't hear about this stuff the instant it happened like you do today. It wasn't until many years after he retired that most fans knew exactly what was going on with LT.
2. In today's NFL, LT would likely have been suspended a full year for repeated violations, if not banned for life.
3. OBJ is being childish. LT was a bad human being. No comparison.
4. Do you really think anybody, knowing what they know now, with the speed and breadth of knowledge that they get it now, would not be on LT if he played for the Giants today, for embarrassing and hurting the franchise?
5. This one is most important to me now, as a father, I would never buy my kid an LT jersey if he played now. LT was a bad person, I hope he's gotten it together.
6. Because we had a bad guy on our team 30 years ago, we're never allowed to criticize a player now?
If you want to argue about Beckham, argue about Beckham. LT really has no bearing on this conversation.
No matter how talented he might be, no matter how many times he might carry the offense, sooner or later one of those selfish attention whore tantrums is going to cost the team at precisely a moment they can't afford.
He's got to grow up, act like you've been there a hundred times. Act like a pro, act like a man.
1. Serious question, are you old enough to have seen LT play? It really makes no difference in my point, I'm just wondering. I was 10 years old in 1986. In 1986, you didn't hear about this stuff the instant it happened like you do today. It wasn't until many years after he retired that most fans knew exactly what was going on with LT.
2. In today's NFL, LT would likely have been suspended a full year for repeated violations, if not banned for life.
3. OBJ is being childish. LT was a bad human being. No comparison.
4. Do you really think anybody, knowing what they know now, with the speed and breadth of knowledge that they get it now, would not be on LT if he played for the Giants today, for embarrassing and hurting the franchise?
5. This one is most important to me now, as a father, I would never buy my kid an LT jersey if he played now. LT was a bad person, I hope he's gotten it together.
6. Because we had a bad guy on our team 30 years ago, we're never allowed to criticize a player now?
If you want to argue about Beckham, argue about Beckham. LT really has no bearing on this conversation.
You and I are basically the same age, so I can relate to what you're saying with regard to the era and fans' awareness of misdeeds and transgressions. That said, Banks almost certainly would have been aware of it in real time or close to it. So for him to say he would straighten out Beckham when no evidence exists to suggest he ever tried to straighten out Taylor rings a bit hollow for me, that's all I'm saying.
And secondly, I don't recall many instances "on the field" where Taylor may have cost his team, but it's a different game now, and it's been 30 years and I admittedly wouldn't be able to remember any transgressions that compared.
He is a great player but my wanting him on the Giants for a long time etc. is beginning to wane. He does not understand that you do not win championships with diva WRs. You win with great offensive and defensive lines, great coaching and effective quarterback play. With all due respect to Eli, I thought we had one of those but now I am not sure we have any of those.
It's an embarrassment. I've always felt over the years the Giants were better than this.
?
Now, I have to cringe at our celebrations.
It's an embarrassment. I've always felt over the years the Giants were better than this.
giants were better than this based one what?
Is there anyone out there who still thinks the boat trip before the playoff game followed up by lousy performance in the game wasnt a big deal?
Enough is enough. Suspension, penalties, acting like a jerkoff.
And before anyone makes the comparison, please don't mention LT. Beckham is not near LT's level.
Yep......
Does he have a ring? Yes. Does the rest of the team have one without him? Unlikely.
Is there anyone out there who still thinks the boat trip before the playoff game followed up by lousy performance in the game wasnt a big deal?
Enough is enough. Suspension, penalties, acting like a jerkoff.
And before anyone makes the comparison, please don't mention LT. Beckham is not near LT's level.
ahh so its ok to like LT because he won 2 superbowls but beckham is a cancer because giants have not won a superbowl with him...
makes sense, lets ignore everything lt did
Quote:
He does not understand that you do not win championships with diva WRs.
?
Umm, his point is still 100% valid. We had a QB, a line, TE's, RB's tied to that very photo you show. So, yeah, you don't with SOLELY with a diva WR which was his point!
Quote:
not even 10 months later.
Does he have a ring? Yes. Does the rest of the team have one without him? Unlikely.
I'm just saying. He likely cost them another one, too, so that behavior can be detrimental.
When Beckham starts being a shitty teammate - we can rip him apart.
Quote:
Have a little self awareness.
Is there anyone out there who still thinks the boat trip before the playoff game followed up by lousy performance in the game wasnt a big deal?
Enough is enough. Suspension, penalties, acting like a jerkoff.
And before anyone makes the comparison, please don't mention LT. Beckham is not near LT's level.
ahh so its ok to like LT because he won 2 superbowls but beckham is a cancer because giants have not won a superbowl with him...
makes sense, lets ignore everything lt did
I'm not saying he's a cancer and i'm not saying LT was a saint. I'm saying the lack of self/team awareness and the celebrations by he and Engram were fucking embarrassing.
Quote:
Have a little self awareness.
Is there anyone out there who still thinks the boat trip before the playoff game followed up by lousy performance in the game wasnt a big deal?
Enough is enough. Suspension, penalties, acting like a jerkoff.
And before anyone makes the comparison, please don't mention LT. Beckham is not near LT's level.
ahh so its ok to like LT because he won 2 superbowls but beckham is a cancer because giants have not won a superbowl with him...
makes sense, lets ignore everything lt did
Your point is crap. LT did everything possible to WIN games on the field. Off the field he was an idiot and very self destructive! On the field he was a Monster. He would not put up with his offensive teammates costing his team and defense yards and momentum because you want to self indulge your idiotic need to be above the team!
Beckham is a double edged sword. This team will live and die with his talent and his propensity to completely blow up during the game, unsettling the offense, the sideline and them team overall.
Though I think the NFL is different now. Miss guys like Banks.
Quote:
...
Yep......
We need to win a game man. Just one to change the narrative around this group.
I don't understand coming out of that game yesterday complaining about Odell Beckham
Make this stop already. Beckham is the very, very, very least of our worries. And it's not close.
When Beckham starts being a shitty teammate - we can rip him apart.
I don't think Beckham is a bad teammate.
Fuck - if we're bitching about fanboys, there are a lot of disparaging things that could be said about fans in general.
If you're a "fanboy" of the Giants, you must like sucky teams!
Calling people fanboys reeks of Apple-speak 10 years ago.
This has nothing to do with pitchforks over an 0-3 start.
Some just refuse to call a spade a spade.
Now, Jerry on the other hand is the one that should be ripped................
Amazing that with the team 0-3 and only playing one decent quarter of football in 12, so many fans are ripping the player is who is responsible for 50% of the TDs and performing two circus catches few in the league can make.
I'm not for that type of celebration either, 100% not for it. I'm also not going to let it be the only thing that defines a player. Von Miller literally cost his team the game yesterday with a stupid unsportsman like conduct penalty against the Bills. But no one is going to tar and feather Von Miller because his act wasn't lewd. It's Monday, we're all pissed about Sunday, can we just let the dust settle a bit. OBJ had nothing to do with the loss yesterday, and literally was more than half the reason the Giants had a chance to win.
Now, do you also have to have playmakers...yes, you do. But, they do not have to be of Beckham's type or Terrell Owens to win. New England has proved that over and over.
We can win without Beckham quite easily provided we have a solid offensive line and a good defensive line. You do not need a star WR. They are nice to have but not necessary.
I am typically one on favor of letting the players celebrate, but where this team and more specifically offense has been recently I thought these guys would handle it better. First two tds of the season, which felt like a massive accomplishment and 2 15 yard penalties.
Now, do you also have to have playmakers...yes, you do. But, they do not have to be of Beckham's type or Terrell Owens to win. New England has proved that over and over.
We can win without Beckham quite easily provided we have a solid offensive line and a good defensive line. You do not need a star WR. They are nice to have but not necessary.
New England has Brady and Bellichick (probably the best QB and Coach in NFL history), and almost won one with the biggest diva WR ever, if it wasn't for those pesky Coughlin led Giants.
Follow the money
Quote:
In comment 13617554 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
...
Yep......
We need to win a game man. Just one to change the narrative around this group.
I don't understand coming out of that game yesterday complaining about Odell Beckham
I don't either - but there are guys on this site that just hate the player so much that any time they're frustrated about the Giants, they immediately turn their attention to him.
How anyone could possibly think he had a hand in us losing that game is beyond me... but that's what we've got here.
That was some strange stuff.
Well, they did bring in a TE and FB. They drafted a pass catching TE. They should have done something to improve the OL, but was everyone after Perkins' head after last season? If anything, people wanted a short yardage back to complement him.
Granted, the moves (or lack of) backfired - Perkins has regressed, we're not using Ellison or Smith enough, and the OL has gone to shit. But it's not for lack of trying to add diversity to the O, it's because the attempt has failed thus far.
Quote:
care about OBJ?
Follow the money
I'm tired of your chickenshit games! I don't want hints! I need to know what you know!
That was some strange stuff.
Man, it's a generational thing. I see it from young men in their 20s all the time. Not that I don't think it is odd, but I see it every week.
Quote:
In comment 13617558 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Have a little self awareness.
Is there anyone out there who still thinks the boat trip before the playoff game followed up by lousy performance in the game wasnt a big deal?
Enough is enough. Suspension, penalties, acting like a jerkoff.
And before anyone makes the comparison, please don't mention LT. Beckham is not near LT's level.
ahh so its ok to like LT because he won 2 superbowls but beckham is a cancer because giants have not won a superbowl with him...
makes sense, lets ignore everything lt did
Your point is crap. LT did everything possible to WIN games on the field. Off the field he was an idiot and very self destructive! On the field he was a Monster. He would not put up with his offensive teammates costing his team and defense yards and momentum because you want to self indulge your idiotic need to be above the team!
you mean doing coke before games was doing everything to win games? you mean being suspended by the nfl for 4 games is doing everything to win?
so beckham doesnt play hks hardest to win games? what a load of bullshit, every single one of his teammates say he is the hardest worker on the team
I don't think Banks is wrong, but this whole discussion just highlights the wide disparity between the over 40 crowd and the under 30 crowd. I'm with the over 40 crowd, but these young men today are operating on a whole nother wave length. I think it is odd, and downright troubling, but such is the way of the world.
Just score TDs, and keep it PG-13
Once, at a gathering, I saw Beckham put his hand over a candle, and keep it there. He kept it right in the flame until his flesh seared. A woman who was watching asked, "What's the trick?" And he replied. "The trick is not minding."
Well said Greg
I wish they didn't fine players for the celebrations, but they know the rules - don't get a penalty. It's stupid and hurts the team.
I'd also add Odell gets super lazy when run blocking. Plaxico was a very good run blocker, as was Nicks, IIRC.
So what happens on the first TD, OBj must think those rules don't apply to him, never mind the stupid gesture he made.....
Sorry OBj, we applaud you for the plays you make....but then it becomes all about you and not the team, afterwards....
You want to celebrate, do it behind your bench, where you make yourself look more like a child, than a grown man....
I wish they didn't fine players for the celebrations, but they know the rules - don't get a penalty. It's stupid and hurts the team.
I'd also add Odell gets super lazy when run blocking. Plaxico was a very good run blocker, as was Nicks, IIRC.
Fair post, hard to argue.
Wishing injury or death on someone is just as bad as pretending to pee on them
Beckham is a double edged sword. This team will live and die with his talent and his propensity to completely blow up during the game, unsettling the offense, the sideline and them team overall.
I don't need to be a fanboy of anyone to callout the incessant whining over everything X player does. This site is bogged down by posters like you who need to start thread after thread after thread repeating the same thing over and over again. If you think that makes you a better fan or more knowledgeable or shows that you care more, then you couldn't be more wrong.
Beckham needs to grow up. We also don't have a prayer of winning yesterday without him. Which is more important?
Probably because Tomlin has been to the big game twice, one once, and produces a perenial contender. Why do I bring this up? Because it is about winning, and winning cures everything. So Al Davis was right, Just Win Baby.
Quote:
.
I don't think Banks is wrong, but this whole discussion just highlights the wide disparity between the over 40 crowd and the under 30 crowd. I'm with the over 40 crowd, but these young men today are operating on a whole nother wave length. I think it is odd, and downright troubling, but such is the way of the world.
Just score TDs, and keep it PG-13
I think it's unfair to paint the under 30 crowd with the same brush as Beckham. I pointed out on another thread that Deshaun Watson (younger than Beckham) did some incredible things yesterday and did not incur any unsportsmanlike penalties. And I'm sure the same can be said for many other players around the league.
I don't think Beckham is a fool because he's 24. I think he's just a fool.
Quote:
than the rest of us.
Beckham is a double edged sword. This team will live and die with his talent and his propensity to completely blow up during the game, unsettling the offense, the sideline and them team overall.
I don't need to be a fanboy of anyone to callout the incessant whining over everything X player does. This site is bogged down by posters like you who need to start thread after thread after thread repeating the same thing over and over again. If you think that makes you a better fan or more knowledgeable or shows that you care more, then you couldn't be more wrong.
Beckham needs to grow up. We also don't have a prayer of winning yesterday without him. Which is more important?
You make me proud to be a Husky. Great clarity. Agree totally.
If BBI had signatures, at least 10 people would choose this.
I LOVE Odell and I thought his penalty/celebration was stupid and sophomoric. Nothing wrong with calling out individual stupidity, but let's not get crazy and take it beyond that.
the obscene gesture at our own fans to boot .
Then address the entire team to stop with putting themselves
in front of the team as did OBJ with his little dog piss
gesture . handing the other team field position id dumb
McHandley didn't address it .
Quote:
if he decides to do another unnecessary celebration I hope he dies or at least gets paralyzed. Am I right, bros?
Wishing injury or death on someone is just as bad as pretending to pee on them
Not where I'm from. You don't EVER pretend to pee on something. Ever.
Quote:
In comment 13617631 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.
I don't think Banks is wrong, but this whole discussion just highlights the wide disparity between the over 40 crowd and the under 30 crowd. I'm with the over 40 crowd, but these young men today are operating on a whole nother wave length. I think it is odd, and downright troubling, but such is the way of the world.
Just score TDs, and keep it PG-13
I think it's unfair to paint the under 30 crowd with the same brush as Beckham. I pointed out on another thread that Deshaun Watson (younger than Beckham) did some incredible things yesterday and did not incur any unsportsmanlike penalties. And I'm sure the same can be said for many other players around the league.
I don't think Beckham is a fool because he's 24. I think he's just a fool.
What I mean is the younger crowd looks at these antics very differently than the older crowd. Not that 20 somethings all act alike. Older folks, like myself and others, look at the celebration yesterday as disgusting and inappropriate. Younger folks usually shrug it off and either say just play football or that's OBJ being OBJ. The older generation puts more stock in the sportsmanship arguments.
Truthfully, I am concerned that we will spend a ton to keep a guy who will not be the answer to SB's. Perhaps getting rid of him is more harsh than the sentiment here. Its funny how fans turna blind eye to their own teams or favorite players but skewer others who do the same. OBJ has some personality flaws that are showing up on the field. We ignore a lot when we win but to be honest isn't that what Jerry Reese did this offseason. He ignored the Oline becuase we "won" games last year and felt like we needed other areas first so he ignored the Oline issues. We are ignoring OBJ's issues because he puts up TDs and is a star WR. But, the issues are there and if they don't get better and the team gets worse more and more people will be unable to ignore it.
However, he has a track record of committing acts that hurt the team's chances of winning.
1 game suspension.
Multiple personal fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct penalties.
Sideline distractions.
I guess that makes me a "bad fan" or "obsessed".
I'm just not willing to be a hypocrite who calls this sh*t out when it happens to Dallas but not our own team.
Now, I have to cringe at our celebrations.
This
exactly! What I posted earlier.
I do have one question though
Emil : 11:48 am : link : reply
When Antonio Brown costs the Steelers 15 yards for his ridiculous celebrations, do I hear anyone saying that Tomlin has lost the team or the Steelers lack discipline? No I don't. Why?
Probably because Tomlin has been to the big game twice, one once, and produces a perenial contender. Why do I bring this up? Because it is about winning, and winning cures everything. So Al Davis was right, Just Win Baby.
2. black power fist
SMH
Why is everyone such an abosolutist? Would an a-hole go visit a kid dying of cancer to fulfill his dying wish? More to the man than a simple TD celebration.
So basically you don't watch professional sports, then?
Pissing like a dog after a TD is an act of passion? Carrying on with a kicking net for nearly a month last year? How many times can this guy scream me, me, me! Like a child.
Jerry Reese basically tells the kid to grow up at last year's season ending presser. Carl Banks (who I think we all can agree is level headed and knowledgeable) calls for a fine for conduct DETRIMENTAL to the team and still many take the attitude of "nothing to see here!"
No one thinks David Diehl is an asshole and he drove drunk and hit a bunch of parked cars and could've seriously injured someone. You have to keep this in some sort of perspective.
Quote:
In comment 13617652 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
if he decides to do another unnecessary celebration I hope he dies or at least gets paralyzed. Am I right, bros?
Wishing injury or death on someone is just as bad as pretending to pee on them
Not where I'm from. You don't EVER pretend to pee on something. Ever.
The pee tape. :(
I wouldn't be upset if he was traded for some sort of pick. He's not a terrible teammate and he is a great competitor.
He would be fantastic if we were a team who was a WR away from being great, but we aren't. We are fundamentally flawed team.
Did Carl say he should be traded? What's Carl got to say about your asinine plan to buil d a team full of minimum wage misfits in order to save cap money?
Quote:
More and more we are seeing he is an asshole. I do not care how good you are in any sport. I do not root for players like that. I specifically pointed out to my children, that is not how you act.
So basically you don't watch professional sports, then?
LOL! In a field full of deadbeat dads, drunk drivers, women beaters, showboats - you don't want to root for players who are assholes.
I don't know if we're going to find 53 we can field.
Antonio Brown?
Let's talk about this team specifically. Are Odell's actions why the o-line can't block? Are Odell's action why Eli Apple can't find the ball in the air? Are Odell's actions why we find ourselves dead last in rush defense? Are Odell's actions why Eli throws questionable interceptions? Eli did that long before Odell ever came along.
Production is conducive to winning. He produces. Other people aren't and that's the real problem. How people act on the Patriots isn't my concern. Belichick knowingly signed someone who killed a person. He's knowingly signed people with issues of drunk driving and weed smoking. Those don't sound "conducive to winning", but when he gets people to perform, they win anyway. The Packers brought back a guy who served time after originally being charged with possession and intent to sell.
Quote:
In comment 13617673 cjac said:
Quote:
In comment 13617652 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
if he decides to do another unnecessary celebration I hope he dies or at least gets paralyzed. Am I right, bros?
Wishing injury or death on someone is just as bad as pretending to pee on them
Not where I'm from. You don't EVER pretend to pee on something. Ever.
The pee tape. :(
Shall we?
Why can t a fan enjoy his great talent especially when it helps the team win, and not approved of all the immaturity.
We on this site used to kill Desean Jackson. He s a choir boy next to Beckham as far as being a hotdog
Criticizing Odell for that penalty is fine. Saying you want him traded or you can't root for him is the problem.
If you want to look at a shitty teammate just look at tiki barber. It's been said his teammates weren't fans and be had issues with strahan
Why can t a fan enjoy his great talent especially when it helps the team win, and not approved of all the immaturity.
We on this site used to kill Desean Jackson. He s a choir boy next to Beckham as far as being a hotdog
That isn't what's happening though. That's completely my stance but I get called a fanboy when stating it. Is it some weird coincidence that the OP didn't respond to my last post calling him out?
I am not happy with his behavior, especially in light of his past issues. He doesn't seem to have learned a damn thing or matured at all. Many here speculate that Coughlin's handling of Beckham (or lack thereof) in the Panthers game strongly contributed to his firing. If that's the case, McAdoo's seeming refusal to address Beckham's behavior (or at least publicly) should be potential trouble for him as well.
These are the posts I have to laugh at. Do you know what mentally ill actually means? Celebrating, no matter how stupid it may be is now what we should call mentally ill?
Vontaze Burdict is the dirtiest player in the NFL and I wouldn't even call him mentally ill. He's an example of an asshole.
But you have to realize a lot of great DBs and WRs are just attention seekers: it started with Deion and Randy Moss and has grown over time.
But I also think their is a racial perceptual component: Favre used to celebrate wildly racing down the field and jumping in the air like crazy. But that was taken as a sign of his being a competitor and his love of the game. Or when Hyno and Hedgecock (sp?) did their dances, it was just funny. Whereas with Odell it is seen as disrespect or immaturity
Oh, It's true.
But you have to realize a lot of great DBs and WRs are just attention seekers: it started with Deion and Randy Moss and has grown over time.
But I also think their is a racial perceptual component: Favre used to celebrate wildly racing down the field and jumping in the air like crazy. But that was taken as a sign of his being a competitor and his love of the game. Or when Hyno and Hedgecock (sp?) did their dances, it was just funny. Whereas with Odell it is seen as disrespect or immaturity
Oh, It's true.
Dez kicking and screaming and showing up Romo not just once but several times throughout his career has been a joy to watch. But that's all that us making fun of it doesn't actually matter nor has any effect on the outcome of the game or how the team we root for conducts its business so now what?
Quote:
I am not in any way advocating trading Beckham, however, I read an interesting article on "The Patriot Way" and how they base almost all their moves on money and the cap. They rarely seem to overpay a player and their basic premise seems to be that if they can get 75-80% out of a player earning 50% less they are better off. Those aren't exact numbers just what I can remember off the top of my head, it's an interesting read!
.
Did Carl say he should be traded? What's Carl got to say about your asinine plan to buil d a team full of minimum wage misfits in order to save cap money?
Oh, It's true.
Qualify 'defend' - do you see anyone saying it's OK? Or encouraging him?
Or do you see a bunch of people who take the good with the bad, and won't discard a generational talent because he does some stupid things from time to time?
When we get ourselves a Belichick, I'll sign right up for that.
Quote:
antics would be crucifying him.
Oh, It's true.
Qualify 'defend' - do you see anyone saying it's OK? Or encouraging him?
Or do you see a bunch of people who take the good with the bad, and won't discard a generational talent because he does some stupid things from time to time?
Quote:
antics would be crucifying him.
Oh, It's true.
Qualify 'defend' - do you see anyone saying it's OK? Or encouraging him?
Or do you see a bunch of people who take the good with the bad, and won't discard a generational talent because he does some stupid things from time to time?
Classic.
Classic.
You calling out someone else for being 'hyper sensitive' is snowflake-esque. I'm starting to worry for your well being.
Classic.
Why do you keep saying "hyper sensitive"? If anyone is it's you. You started this thread and your retort to anyone that doesn't share your view is met with the accusation of being hyper sensitive. You come off like a clown that can't make a point without using a cute buzz word.
Beckham should grow up. He's also the best player on this team and the reason we had a chance to win yesterday. So I'll ask you again, which is more important?
Oh, It's true.
that is honestly the truth. great talent, probably a nice kid, but very eccentric and 10 cent brain at times..
Beckham's skill helps the team win. I'm not denying that.
I'm saying his pointless actions hurt the team. You guys mean to tell me that when Beckham does something good, you're not sitting there holding your breath that he's going to give it back by doing something ridiculous?
I could care less about Beckham personally. I have no "obsession" with him. I am a fan of the Giants and really only like when players do things that help win ballgames.
I'm telling you it's a mixed bag. A lot of you are the ones trying to tell me it's not, which is BS.
If it wasn't, cameras would not be following these guys for TD celebrations and sideline stuff
Yes, I can do without the penalties from celebrations, however, from those in the know, he works hard in practice, gives it his all in games, loved by teammates and does not get into off the field trouble
Is there really a difference between some of the TD celebrations and the Packer leap, which never gets called for a penalty
I wish Beckham was a choir boy but he isn't. He is who he is and he helps this team far more than he hurts it. You have to think time will allow him to grow up and the things he does outside of football give me hope that he will channel his energy differently. In the grand scheme of things that are wrong with this team, Beckhams TD celebrations aren't even on the list. It really is insignificant, just look at the rest of this teams issues.
Just a couple years ago in the Super Bowl, Doug Baldwin celebrated a td by pretending to poop. Did that incite near the amount of fire here as Beckham's celebration? He's not the only guy with post TD antics, but you wouldn't know it with some of these posts.
Boneheaded, losing football. One step forward two steps back type stuff. Ill-timed, horrible celebrations.
Beckham has influence in that locker room as one of the best players. He needs to clean up his act.
He has not done anything to put that at risk yet. But Sunday was pretty distasteful and childish.
So, I recognize that OBJ is a moron, but as a fan of the helmet I also like it when he catches TD passes.
But you have to realize a lot of great DBs and WRs are just attention seekers: it started with Deion and Randy Moss and has grown over time.
But I also think their is a racial perceptual component: Favre used to celebrate wildly racing down the field and jumping in the air like crazy. But that was taken as a sign of his being a competitor and his love of the game. Or when Hyno and Hedgecock (sp?) did their dances, it was just funny. Whereas with Odell it is seen as disrespect or immaturity
I agree with a lot of your post, but whenever a player involves his dick in his celebration it's disrespectful.
2. black power fist
SMH
I gotta know... which one made you more mad?
The pissing dog thing was disgusting, but the thing that made it offensive was that OBJ HAD to know it was going to be an unsportsmanlike penalty...but he didn't care.
Jerry's penalty was "heat of the moment" stupid. OBJ's TD celebration penalties (I think he's had at least 4 of these) are premeditated stupid.
He knows it's going to hurt the team when he's conjuring up his dumb-ass routines, but he does them anyway.
Not sure how anyone can think of these actions as anything but selfish.
Quote:
1. walking on all fours like a dog and simulating peeing
2. black power fist
SMH
I gotta know... which one made you more mad?
Not so much mad, but disappointed with both hence the SMH. I'm for spike the ball or even better toss to the ref and then go celebrate respectfully with your teammates.
Though I think the NFL is different now. Miss guys like Banks.
I would like to see how Keith Hamilton would have handled OBJ, Kieth was the enforcer on this team and all player listened to him.....
Why can t a fan enjoy his great talent especially when it helps the team win, and not approved of all the immaturity.
We on this site used to kill Desean Jackson. He s a choir boy next to Beckham as far as being a hotdog
On what planet is D-Jax a choirboy compared to OBJ???
I think he stole this from the movie "The Program". One of the defenders does it in that movie after tackling the back for a loss.
I'm 39, which I guess puts me in the >40 crowd, but while crass, his celebration didn't bother me all that much. I rolled my eyes when it got flagged. I found it equal parts, shocking, humorous, crass, childish and stupid. A lot like Randy Moss' mooning celebration, but less creative.
I'm not sure why OBJ catches as much flack as he does. Plenty of other players have done much worse than he does (someone in another thread referenced Keith Hamilton, who, IIRC, was caught speeding around in an SUV while high as a kite), yet are not villified at all.
If you find the hot-dogging irritating and "offensive", grow thicker skin. I'm not trying to get these guys to raise my kids, I'm smart enough to know it doesn't take a stellar human being to play this violent and barbaric game.
A grown man in spandex pants jumping around like a dumbass is very entertaining. Just don't get penalized for Chrissakes. Getting a penalty for your TD celebration epitomizes the "dumb" play. It seems pathetic, but after EE and OBJ, maybe we need to have a team-meeting about what you can and cannot do to celebrate a TD. I get what OBJ is saying in that sometimes you take a penalty for the greater good of accomplishing a result (here, firing up the team). But that's not the penalty to take. We were lucky they didn't get a great return and fumbled the ball on that possession.
As to celebrations being bad sportsmanship ... "people" (read: Snowflake fans) offended by the lack of "sportsmanship" and yearning for the days of the 70s and before need a reality check.
The league was far dirtier and less sportsmanlike back in the "good 'ole days" (Jack Tatum, Night Train Lane, Dick Butkus). Unless you consider paralyzing and/or trying to injure other players "sportsmanlike"?
So many posters here fucking suck.
Quote:
antics would be crucifying him.
Oh, It's true.
Qualify 'defend' - do you see anyone saying it's OK? Or encouraging him?
Or do you see a bunch of people who take the good with the bad, and won't discard a generational talent because he does some stupid things from time to time?
Yes, I see a lot of posts defending his antics on this site. And if he was on another team they wouldn't be. People would be slamming on him. No doubt he is a great talent. Can't think of a good comparison, Maybe Randy Moss when he was mooning fans? People didn't like him. Odell is bigger attention seeker than TO. It is what it is.
Thanks Britt - at least I should give a crap about Banks, but in reality I don't.
I'll take a weird Beckum over the dead weight on the field.
I like everything he brings to the table as a player, I haven't seen signs of being a bad teammate (although I thought it was lame he bailed on the Duke workouts, but that's well within his rights to do).
I dislike the dumb celebrations and look at me antics. Call me old fart, or old fashioned, or perhaps it's just the former high school coach in me trying desperately to give some young men discipline and teach life lessons through sports....
Either way, he's not going anywhere and I'm fine with it. I'm not fine with it when he costs the team, through unnecessary distraction (the boat trip), or penalty (like yesterday). And that's okay to be in the middle.
Though I think the NFL is different now. Miss guys like Banks.
Did Banks ever straighten out 56?
2. In today's NFL, LT would likely have been suspended a full year for repeated violations, if not banned for life.
3. OBJ is being childish. LT was a bad human being. No comparison.
4. Do you really think anybody, knowing what they know now, with the speed and breadth of knowledge that they get it now, would not be on LT if he played for the Giants today, for embarrassing and hurting the franchise?
5. This one is most important to me now, as a father, I would never buy my kid an LT jersey if he played now. LT was a bad person, I hope he's gotten it together.
6. Because we had a bad guy on our team 30 years ago, we're never allowed to criticize a player now?
If you want to argue about Beckham, argue about Beckham. LT really has no bearing on this conversation.
2. In today's NFL, LT would likely have been suspended a full year for repeated violations, if not banned for life.
3. OBJ is being childish. LT was a bad human being. No comparison.
4. Do you really think anybody, knowing what they know now, with the speed and breadth of knowledge that they get it now, would not be on LT if he played for the Giants today, for embarrassing and hurting the franchise?
5. This one is most important to me now, as a father, I would never buy my kid an LT jersey if he played now. LT was a bad person, I hope he's gotten it together.
6. Because we had a bad guy on our team 30 years ago, we're never allowed to criticize a player now?
If you want to argue about Beckham, argue about Beckham. LT really has no bearing on this conversation.
Britt, I don't think addiction makes someone a bad person. I believe LT'S addiction is the main source for the way his life has unfolded.
I've seen a few posters bring up LT in reference to people criticizing Beckham. Of dealt and deals with addiction, Beckham is just being a jackass. I'd say taylor has a better excuse if you will for his actions.
Although, maybe Beckham is addicted to jackassery
Namely 15 year old prostitutes.
LT missed time on the field and was a non-participant (he fell asleep on a routine basis) in meetings. The immediate thought that would pop up would be 'so what, he was LT - look at his performance on the field'.
Well, there's a bit of the same here. OBJ has been penalized and missed a game. His shenanigans can sometimes mentally take him out of a game. In both cases, behavioral issues contributed to performance on the field declining. Both great players, but both somewhat marginalized by these problems.
LT's done now, but OBJ isn't - we can just hope he gets his act together. And just like LT (there were no underaged hooker issues back then, at least none that were public knowledge), he's a flawed character that we root for because ultimately he does seem to be a good guy, and his contributions on the field are outstanding.
Namely 15 year old prostitutes.
In my experience, addiction can control all parts of one's life, although that can't be used as an excuse. The addict must take total responsibility for their actions, while some of us on the outside are sometimes able to tell the difference between the sober personality, and the addict personality. I don't know Lawrence enough to know what was the main source behind his actions, but I do know an addict basically has two personalities.
And not only that, quite frankly, OBJ doesn't have near the impact on the field that LT did, either.
2. In today's NFL, LT would likely have been suspended a full year for repeated violations, if not banned for life.
3. OBJ is being childish. LT was a bad human being. No comparison.
4. Do you really think anybody, knowing what they know now, with the speed and breadth of knowledge that they get it now, would not be on LT if he played for the Giants today, for embarrassing and hurting the franchise?
5. This one is most important to me now, as a father, I would never buy my kid an LT jersey if he played now. LT was a bad person, I hope he's gotten it together.
6. Because we had a bad guy on our team 30 years ago, we're never allowed to criticize a player now?
If you want to argue about Beckham, argue about Beckham. LT really has no bearing on this conversation.
Good post.
He's got to grow up, act like you've been there a hundred times. Act like a pro, act like a man.
2. In today's NFL, LT would likely have been suspended a full year for repeated violations, if not banned for life.
3. OBJ is being childish. LT was a bad human being. No comparison.
4. Do you really think anybody, knowing what they know now, with the speed and breadth of knowledge that they get it now, would not be on LT if he played for the Giants today, for embarrassing and hurting the franchise?
5. This one is most important to me now, as a father, I would never buy my kid an LT jersey if he played now. LT was a bad person, I hope he's gotten it together.
6. Because we had a bad guy on our team 30 years ago, we're never allowed to criticize a player now?
If you want to argue about Beckham, argue about Beckham. LT really has no bearing on this conversation.
You and I are basically the same age, so I can relate to what you're saying with regard to the era and fans' awareness of misdeeds and transgressions. That said, Banks almost certainly would have been aware of it in real time or close to it. So for him to say he would straighten out Beckham when no evidence exists to suggest he ever tried to straighten out Taylor rings a bit hollow for me, that's all I'm saying.
And secondly, I don't recall many instances "on the field" where Taylor may have cost his team, but it's a different game now, and it's been 30 years and I admittedly wouldn't be able to remember any transgressions that compared.