Reese has been getting destroyed, deservedly so. I'd say the modern day Giants run was from 2005-November 2012. After Hurricane Sandy, it all went downhill for this franchise. Reese has yet to get it back in order aside from spending $200M which gutted us some close wins and a 11-5 record. No division title since 2011 in what is arguable the division with the most parity in the NFL.
With all that said, I remember Accorsi being ridiculed by most here as well. So much so that people even ripped him for taking Eli interviews after SB46. Here's a guy who had the conviction to trade for Eli & built the nuts and bolts of the team that went 25-5 during a 30 game stretch in 07-08 which included a Super Bowl. Yet, he wasn't liked either.
Also, to be fair. Jerry Reese's fingerprints are over the 2007 & 2011 (more so) SB teams as well. He deserves credit. But, man this has been a bad team for awhile now. This team finished the year 3-5 in 12, was 0-6 in 13, 3-9 in 14, finished the year 1-6 in 15 & is now 0-3 in 16. Yikes.
Of course, no team does - but don't let that stop anyone.
Yeah we got a title in 2011, but that wasn't a great team by any stretch.
This team had the good fortune of rare continuity at coach and quarterback since 2004, and has managed just 1 (what I would call) excellent team in that stretch. The 2008 team.
I will wonder about that year forever.
Wasn't fair to anyone - the player, the rest of the team, the fans, or the television viewing audience. The kid did the best he could, but he got his ass handed to him and of course, the GIANTS lost another game that they really needed to win.
Yeah we got a title in 2011, but that wasn't a great team by any stretch.
This team had the good fortune of rare continuity at coach and quarterback since 2004, and has managed just 1 (what I would call) excellent team in that stretch. The 2008 team.
I will wonder about that year forever.
I thought the 2010 team was also a missed opportunity.
Reese has said the same thing before. "blue goose" is his term for it. Only drafting one that high if he looks like a future star. Flowers checked all the size/strength/look boxes except for his apparently inability to learn the things you have to learn to succeed. They've been awful at scouting linemen for years.
Reese was the only one to mention that Flowers might be meant for guard at first:
“He’s a big, tough, good football player, and he’s got a nasty streak.”
While Reese said Flowers could play either guard or tackle, Coach Tom Coughlin spoke to reporters after Reese did and said unequivocally that Flowers was a tackle. Flowers played on the left and the right sides at Miami, although he spent the last two seasons at left tackle, the most prominent position on the line because it protects the blind side of a right-handed quarterback like Manning
...
Asked if Flowers was viewed as an eventual left tackle, Reese answered, “Yeah, you would think so.”
Quote:
No coach was more impressed than Giants head man Tom Coughlin, who compared the 21-year-old to a war-like machine. “He is a battleship, an aircraft carrier or however you want to describe him at six-foot-six, 329 [pounds], noted Coughlin. “Strongest guy in the draft.” Strongest, doesn’t always mean best, but in the case of the Giants draft board, Flowers was the top guy for Coughlin and company. “Yeah, but you know how the Giants operate – the best player on the board is going to get the majority of the consideration, and that was the case right here,” noted Coughlin. Despite being described as ‘a little bit on the quiet side’ Coughlin isn’t letting Flowers' soft-spoken manner fool him. The offensive tackle prospect can be a wrecking ball between the lines and this became immediately apparent when the Giants studied him on game tape. "You see him on film," said Coughlin of Flowers' toughness on the gridiron. “You see him at the second level trying to finish people off. Arriving in a bad humor at a pile. You see all that stuff.”
Reese was the only one to mention that Flowers might be meant for guard at first:
Quote:
“Obviously, he’s a gigantic human being, and he played at a high level of competition,” Reese said. “We think this can help solidify the offensive line, so hopefully this will settle the offensive line down and we don’t have to keep talking about the offensive line as much.
“He’s a big, tough, good football player, and he’s got a nasty streak.”
While Reese said Flowers could play either guard or tackle, Coach Tom Coughlin spoke to reporters after Reese did and said unequivocally that Flowers was a tackle. Flowers played on the left and the right sides at Miami, although he spent the last two seasons at left tackle, the most prominent position on the line because it protects the blind side of a right-handed quarterback like Manning
...
Asked if Flowers was viewed as an eventual left tackle, Reese answered, “Yeah, you would think so.”
Excellebt find. Very interesting.
Jeff Roehl, Rich Seubert, Wayne Lucier, Dave Diehl, Chris Bober.
And the starter at fullback was Visanthe Shiancoe.
Roehl was an undrafted rookie. Lucier was a rookie 7th round pick. Diehl was a former 5th round pick in his second year. Seubert and Bober were both undrafted players in their third year. Shiancoe was a rookie third round pick out of Morgan State.
The Giants lost 35-32 in OT.
Some are even really good at fantasy football.
Remember Matt Allen and his ilk - players signed not because they were good but because they were bad? Yup, for those who don't remember, the Giants cap woes many times meant they had to pass over decent players and only sign players without tenure who could play for minimum salary.
Accorsi had some historically horrific drafts and for 6 years we had virtually no free agent signings; we spent more money on FAs in 04 than in his entire prior tenure. That was a rough time - no depth, lousy drafts, and no ability to patch holes.
Things ended well for him but we all suffered a long time while he figured things out.
Quote:
if you read articles at the time, Coughlin gushed about how strong Flowers was, how he was mauling people down field. These are both from articles just after the draft:
Quote:
No coach was more impressed than Giants head man Tom Coughlin, who compared the 21-year-old to a war-like machine. “He is a battleship, an aircraft carrier or however you want to describe him at six-foot-six, 329 [pounds], noted Coughlin. “Strongest guy in the draft.” Strongest, doesn’t always mean best, but in the case of the Giants draft board, Flowers was the top guy for Coughlin and company. “Yeah, but you know how the Giants operate – the best player on the board is going to get the majority of the consideration, and that was the case right here,” noted Coughlin. Despite being described as ‘a little bit on the quiet side’ Coughlin isn’t letting Flowers' soft-spoken manner fool him. The offensive tackle prospect can be a wrecking ball between the lines and this became immediately apparent when the Giants studied him on game tape. "You see him on film," said Coughlin of Flowers' toughness on the gridiron. “You see him at the second level trying to finish people off. Arriving in a bad humor at a pile. You see all that stuff.”
Reese was the only one to mention that Flowers might be meant for guard at first:
Quote:
“Obviously, he’s a gigantic human being, and he played at a high level of competition,” Reese said. “We think this can help solidify the offensive line, so hopefully this will settle the offensive line down and we don’t have to keep talking about the offensive line as much.
“He’s a big, tough, good football player, and he’s got a nasty streak.”
While Reese said Flowers could play either guard or tackle, Coach Tom Coughlin spoke to reporters after Reese did and said unequivocally that Flowers was a tackle. Flowers played on the left and the right sides at Miami, although he spent the last two seasons at left tackle, the most prominent position on the line because it protects the blind side of a right-handed quarterback like Manning
...
Asked if Flowers was viewed as an eventual left tackle, Reese answered, “Yeah, you would think so.”
Excellebt find. Very interesting.
Incredible find. Puts the Flowers pick in a whole different light.
Jeff Roehl, Rich Seubert, Wayne Lucier, Dave Diehl, Chris Bober.
And the starter at fullback was Visanthe Shiancoe.
Roehl was an undrafted rookie. Lucier was a rookie 7th round pick. Diehl was a former 5th round pick in his second year. Seubert and Bober were both undrafted players in their third year. Shiancoe was a rookie third round pick out of Morgan State.
The Giants lost 35-32 in OT.
And yet two of those guys were starters on a SB offensive line.
Some are even really good at fantasy football.
OMG If I could draft a left tackle for my fantasy team, I would totally take the championship in the league where I am up against Reese and Acorsi. This past year, in our draft Acorsi tried to draft Elway again. Reese reached for someone in the first round but hell if I knew who he was. Marc Ross was on auto draft because he was playing Madden and forgot about our draft.
Quote:
And we watch every game, and even a lot of college games, and we just know more than the people who run this franchise.
Some are even really good at fantasy football.
OMG If I could draft a left tackle for my fantasy team, I would totally take the championship in the league where I am up against Reese and Acorsi. This past year, in our draft Acorsi tried to draft Elway again. Reese reached for someone in the first round but hell if I knew who he was. Marc Ross was on auto draft because he was playing Madden and forgot about our draft.
You were the worst poster on this board as TylerAimee and not much has changed since you changed your handle.
Good God
The 2005 Draft is so underrated. Giants had 4 picks and hit home runs on Webster, Tuck and Jacobs.
His last act was engineering the Manning trade.
He couldnt have been THAT bad... lol
His last act was engineering the Manning trade.
He couldnt have been THAT bad... lol
Not necessarily. His last act was trading down for Kiwi and then trading up for.....
Sinorice Moss
Quote:
In comment 13618821 joeinpa said:
Quote:
And we watch every game, and even a lot of college games, and we just know more than the people who run this franchise.
Some are even really good at fantasy football.
OMG If I could draft a left tackle for my fantasy team, I would totally take the championship in the league where I am up against Reese and Acorsi. This past year, in our draft Acorsi tried to draft Elway again. Reese reached for someone in the first round but hell if I knew who he was. Marc Ross was on auto draft because he was playing Madden and forgot about our draft.
You were the worst poster on this board as TylerAimee and not much has changed since you changed your handle.
Good God
you take yourself and this place way too seriously. Everything I said in my prior post was of course just a joke and sarcastic. You need to get a grip.
Meanwhile, every other thread I read here someone says to someone else "you are the worst poster". Can we get a consensus as to who the worst really is? If it is me can I also get a BBI trophy at training camp? Maybe you can present it to me?
Quote:
No coach was more impressed than Giants head man Tom Coughlin, who compared the 21-year-old to a war-like machine. “He is a battleship, an aircraft carrier or however you want to describe him at six-foot-six, 329 [pounds], noted Coughlin. “Strongest guy in the draft.” Strongest, doesn’t always mean best, but in the case of the Giants draft board, Flowers was the top guy for Coughlin and company. “Yeah, but you know how the Giants operate – the best player on the board is going to get the majority of the consideration, and that was the case right here,” noted Coughlin. Despite being described as ‘a little bit on the quiet side’ Coughlin isn’t letting Flowers' soft-spoken manner fool him. The offensive tackle prospect can be a wrecking ball between the lines and this became immediately apparent when the Giants studied him on game tape. "You see him on film," said Coughlin of Flowers' toughness on the gridiron. “You see him at the second level trying to finish people off. Arriving in a bad humor at a pile. You see all that stuff.”
Reese was the only one to mention that Flowers might be meant for guard at first:
Quote:
“Obviously, he’s a gigantic human being, and he played at a high level of competition,” Reese said. “We think this can help solidify the offensive line, so hopefully this will settle the offensive line down and we don’t hoave to keep talking about the offensive line as much.
“He’s a big, tough, good football player, and he’s got a nasty streak.”
While Reese said Flowers could play either guard or tackle, Coach Tom Coughlin spoke to reporters after Reese did and said unequivocally that Flowers was a tackle. Flowers played on the left and the right sides at Miami, although he spent the last two seasons at left tackle, the most prominent position on the line because it protects the blind side of a right-u handed quarterback like Manning
...
Asked if Flowers was viewed as an eventual left tackle, Reese answered, “Yeah, you would think so.”
I believe the two halves of his career as GM for the Giants really highlight the importance of a good head coach/GM working relationship. Both Accorsi and Fassel have mentioned in interviews that they didn't get along.
During all the outrage, while everyone asked why Coughlin was shown the door and Reese allowed to remain, did anyone stop to ask whether maybe he got some leniency because he wasn't entirely responsible for the personnel decisions?
2008 -- easily the best team in the league until Plax shot himself
2009 -- Bill Sheridan ruined the defense along with Reese's ignore the safety position approach that year
2010 -- definitely talented enough to go on a run but the most snakebit team I've seen in the turnover department that year. Some of the most Fluker int's and fumbles I've ever seen. If they hold on in Philly GB doesn't even make the playoffs
All downhill after '11 with bad drafts. People want to get nostalgic about Coughlin now but he made plenty of bad in game decisions and had a horrible record in the second half of seasons.
So you really believe that Reese saw Flowers as a guard? Then what's stoppedhik from saying that ever again instead of consistently asserting he's a LT ever since draft night?
And what's stopped him from trying him at guard ever since?
The level of apologism on this board is maddening.
So you really believe that Reese saw Flowers as a guard? Then what's stoppedhik from saying that ever again instead of consistently asserting he's a LT ever since draft night?
And what's stopped him from trying him at guard ever since?
The level of apologism on this board is maddening.
What's to stop the GM from playing a player at a different position? I don't know, maybe the fact that he doesn't coach the team?
Of course, I posted those articles here for people who can read, so you can just move along now.
Quote:
If the fact that the last Reese fanboys have to rely upon the alleged failings of a GM who hasn't been around since OBJ was thirteen years old in order to defend his indefensible track record isn't the ultimate indictment of Reese's tenure then I don't know what is.
So you really believe that Reese saw Flowers as a guard? Then what's stoppedhik from saying that ever again instead of consistently asserting he's a LT ever since draft night?
And what's stopped him from trying him at guard ever since?
The level of apologism on this board is maddening.
What's to stop the GM from playing a player at a different position? I don't know, maybe the fact that he doesn't coach the team?
Of course, I posted those articles here for people who can read, so you can just move along now.
Give me a break. If you think Reese has no input on personnel issues I have a bridge to sell you.
And talk about cherry picking. How about you go find all the articles since where Reese speaks of Flowera as a guard?
You will be looking for a long, long time.
This isn't a casino, you don't have to double down on stupid pal.
Quote:
In comment 13619083 burtmanjack said:
Quote:
If the fact that the last Reese fanboys have to rely upon the alleged failings of a GM who hasn't been around since OBJ was thirteen years old in order to defend his indefensible track record isn't the ultimate indictment of Reese's tenure then I don't know what is.
So you really believe that Reese saw Flowers as a guard? Then what's stoppedhik from saying that ever again instead of consistently asserting he's a LT ever since draft night?
And what's stopped him from trying him at guard ever since?
The level of apologism on this board is maddening.
What's to stop the GM from playing a player at a different position? I don't know, maybe the fact that he doesn't coach the team?
Of course, I posted those articles here for people who can read, so you can just move along now.
Give me a break. If you think Reese has no input on personnel issues I have a bridge to sell you.
And talk about cherry picking. How about you go find all the articles since where Reese speaks of Flowera as a guard?
You will be looking for a long, long time.
All of the bad picks during the Accorsi era were on Accorsi. The bad picks of the Reese era are on others. Duh.
This isn't a casino, you don't have to double down on stupid pal.
If anyone is doubling down on stupid, it's you.
Selectively relying on a few comments made "with now track record" while ignoring the mountain of comments made in the years since? That is cherry picking, my friend.
The record as a whole -- both Reese's word AND actions -- belies any assertion that Reese saw Flowers as a guard but that others have made him stick with EF as a tackle since the very day he walked through the doors of the Timex Center.
Are you Reese' mother -- or Jerry himself? Because you have come up with some desperate, novel theories to absolve him of any responsibility for the garbage OL in the team that it has been his job to run for over a decade.
Quote:
In comment 13619094 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13619083 burtmanjack said:
Quote:
If the fact that the last Reese fanboys have to rely upon the alleged failings of a GM who hasn't been around since OBJ was thirteen years old in order to defend his indefensible track record isn't the ultimate indictment of Reese's tenure then I don't know what is.
So you really believe that Reese saw Flowers as a guard? Then what's stoppedhik from saying that ever again instead of consistently asserting he's a LT ever since draft night?
And what's stopped him from trying him at guard ever since?
The level of apologism on this board is maddening.
What's to stop the GM from playing a player at a different position? I don't know, maybe the fact that he doesn't coach the team?
Of course, I posted those articles here for people who can read, so you can just move along now.
Give me a break. If you think Reese has no input on personnel issues I have a bridge to sell you.
And talk about cherry picking. How about you go find all the articles since where Reese speaks of Flowera as a guard?
You will be looking for a long, long time.
All of the bad picks during the Accorsi era were on Accorsi. The bad picks of the Reese era are on others. Duh.
Of course. Sorry. My bad.
Quote:
In comment 13618804 jcn56 said:
Quote:
if you read articles at the time, Coughlin gushed about how strong Flowers was, how he was mauling people down field. These are both from articles just after the draft:
Quote:
No coach was more impressed than Giants head man Tom Coughlin, who compared the 21-year-old to a war-like machine. “He is a battleship, an aircraft carrier or however you want to describe him at six-foot-six, 329 [pounds], noted Coughlin. “Strongest guy in the draft.” Strongest, doesn’t always mean best, but in the case of the Giants draft board, Flowers was the top guy for Coughlin and company. “Yeah, but you know how the Giants operate – the best player on the board is going to get the majority of the consideration, and that was the case right here,” noted Coughlin. Despite being described as ‘a little bit on the quiet side’ Coughlin isn’t letting Flowers' soft-spoken manner fool him. The offensive tackle prospect can be a wrecking ball between the lines and this became immediately apparent when the Giants studied him on game tape. "You see him on film," said Coughlin of Flowers' toughness on the gridiron. “You see him at the second level trying to finish people off. Arriving in a bad humor at a pile. You see all that stuff.”
Reese was the only one to mention that Flowers might be meant for guard at first:
Quote:
“Obviously, he’s a gigantic human being, and he played at a high level of competition,” Reese said. “We think this can help solidify the offensive line, so hopefully this will settle the offensive line down and we don’t have to keep talking about the offensive line as much.
“He’s a big, tough, good football player, and he’s got a nasty streak.”
While Reese said Flowers could play either guard or tackle, Coach Tom Coughlin spoke to reporters after Reese did and said unequivocally that Flowers was a tackle. Flowers played on the left and the right sides at Miami, although he spent the last two seasons at left tackle, the most prominent position on the line because it protects the blind side of a right-handed quarterback like Manning
...
Asked if Flowers was viewed as an eventual left tackle, Reese answered, “Yeah, you would think so.”
Excellebt find. Very interesting.
Incredible find. Puts the Flowers pick in a whole different light.
Eh, I dunno. If it were true that Flowers was a Coughlin-influenced pick that Reese disagreed with, Reese would have publicly said so by now.
This isn't a casino, you don't have to double down on stupid pal.
And while you are at it, why don't you find some quotes to explain away this:
Jerry Reese OL draft picks:
Adam Bisnowaty: 2017 sixth round
Ereck Flowers: 2015 first round
Bobby Hart: 2015 seventh round
Weston Richburg: 2014 second round
Justin Pugh: 2013 first round
Eric Herman: 2013 seventh round
Brandon Mosley: 2012 fourth round
Matt McCants: 2012 sixth round
James Brewer: 2011 fourth round
Mitch Petrus: 2010 fifth round
Will Beatty: 2009 second round
Adam Koets: 2007 sixth round
Yeah we got a title in 2011, but that wasn't a great team by any stretch.
This team had the good fortune of rare continuity at coach and quarterback since 2004, and has managed just 1 (what I would call) excellent team in that stretch. The 2008 team.
I will wonder about that year forever.
This "2011 wasn't a great team by any stretch" nonsense continues to be one of BBI's IQ tests. Usually repeated as fact by some posters trying to change history to fit a narrative.
The 2011 team was excellent - we got pretty banged up early that season, especially on defense and on the OL, which played a huge part in why we looked bad at times early that year, and our running game overall was statistically poor - a reason often cited by fans as to why that team wasn't great.
Quite unusually, that team got healthy down the stretch - Tuck, Rolle, Osi, and David Baas all came on strong down the stretch, pluse Chase Blackburn somehow got off his couch and played very well at MLB when we needed him
The 2011 team at its peak was the team that smoked Green Bay on the road in the playoffs, won that war in SF, then beat Brady and the Pats again.
A lot of fans should really go back and rewatch games and highlights from that season
Quote:
I will always think of 2008 as the one that got away, and the season that could have have launched us into shaping this era very differently.
Yeah we got a title in 2011, but that wasn't a great team by any stretch.
This team had the good fortune of rare continuity at coach and quarterback since 2004, and has managed just 1 (what I would call) excellent team in that stretch. The 2008 team.
I will wonder about that year forever.
This "2011 wasn't a great team by any stretch" nonsense continues to be one of BBI's IQ tests. Usually repeated as fact by some posters trying to change history to fit a narrative.
The 2011 team was excellent - we got pretty banged up early that season, especially on defense and on the OL, which played a huge part in why we looked bad at times early that year, and our running game overall was statistically poor - a reason often cited by fans as to why that team wasn't great.
Quite unusually, that team got healthy down the stretch - Tuck, Rolle, Osi, and David Baas all came on strong down the stretch, pluse Chase Blackburn somehow got off his couch and played very well at MLB when we needed him
The 2011 team at its peak was the team that smoked Green Bay on the road in the playoffs, won that war in SF, then beat Brady and the Pats again.
A lot of fans should really go back and rewatch games and highlights from that season
Definitely agree, by the time the playoffs started their run game was actually pretty decent.
He rewarded players past their prime with contracts that crippled our ability to do anything in FA. Perhaps his biggest offense was ignoring the offensive line. For those too young to remember him, the lines he put out make the current one look like the 90s cowboys. His reputation isn't helped since it was widely believed that he lost power when Coughlin was hired. I don't know how true that is, but that was the belief at the time.