|
|
Â
|
| Quote: |
| Giants co-owner John Mara feels the way many of the fans of his football team do: He’s not pleased with the end-zone antics of Odell Beckham Jr. “I do not want to get into a discussion about this,” Mara told The Post in an email Tuesday morning, “but I will say that I am very unhappy with Odell’s behavior on Sunday and we intend to deal with it internally.” Beckham scored two touchdowns in the Giants’ 27-24 loss to the Eagles on Sunday. After the first he crawled on all fours and hiked his back leg, mimicking a dog urinating in the end zone, for which he was penalized 15 yards. Giants coach Ben McAdoo refused on Monday to address Beckham’s behavior directly other than to say it displeases him to be penalized 15 yards. |
People need to get over it.
Eli's final years are looking not so good and then there is going to be a rebuild around an iffy QB prospect
Eli's final years are looking not so good and then there is going to be a rebuild around an iffy QB prospect
Lol. Ok.
Exhausting, but painfully predictable.
I well remember the 70s. That sucked too.
Is it too much to ask for a winning team that conducts itself on the field with class? No, it is not. We have two recent Lombardi trophies that prove it.
Mara lives only to please you...
I well remember the 70s. That sucked too.
Is it too much to ask for a winning team that conducts itself on the field with class? No, it is not. We have two recent Lombardi trophies that prove it.
class? really we are going to play the we are giants fans and we condict ourselves with class argument?
No doubt.
WTF do people expect? He DIDN'T get into a discussion about it. He made a brief, pointed statement. I like it. It was needed.
Now, whether or not it makes a damn bit of difference? Who the hell knows?
If they allowed me to sit down with Beckham, and if I had the power to follow through on what I told him, I'd tell him in no uncertain terms that he needs to cut the shit. Hand the football to the officials. High-five his teammates. Anything more and he will be fined heavily. But emphasis would be on not WANTED to go that route - but essentially appealing to his level of maturity available to ask him to reel it in. This is Year 4 - enough already. Grow the fuck up, man.
What I didn't like was Odell saying afterwards that he's going to keep acting like that, consequences be damned. That's not acceptable.
What I didn't like was Odell saying afterwards that he's going to keep acting like that, consequences be damned. That's not acceptable.
Bingo.
I remember the one against the Rams, which seemed ticky tacky.
The one last year with the Ravens where he took his helmet off and this one. Have there been any others?
It's an issue, no doubt about that. Luckily it hasn't cost us yet.
Maybe Mr. Mara should have a sitdown with Odell and just talk to him man to man.
Quote:
The Giants have a long history of being a class operation. This behavior is ridiculous and embarrassing and classless.
I well remember the 70s. That sucked too.
Is it too much to ask for a winning team that conducts itself on the field with class? No, it is not. We have two recent Lombardi trophies that prove it.
class? really we are going to play the we are giants fans and we condict ourselves with class argument?
Yes whats wrong with that opinion. Do you think what OBJ did was professional?
I remember the one against the Rams, which seemed ticky tacky.
The one last year with the Ravens where he took his helmet off and this one. Have there been any others?
It's an issue, no doubt about that. Luckily it hasn't cost us yet.
Maybe Mr. Mara should have a sitdown with Odell and just talk to him man to man.
Not TD Celebrations, but let's not forget 3 in one game against Josh Norman.
Right there between the two of us, we just named 6 15 yard penalties.
Doomster : 11:33 am : link : reply
when Double E was penalized for the same reason, the previous game, it was up to McAdoo to make a point about celebrations, costing us 15 yards, during the week.....either he didn't or players don't listen...
Quote:
celebrations has Odell been flagged for in his career?
I remember the one against the Rams, which seemed ticky tacky.
The one last year with the Ravens where he took his helmet off and this one. Have there been any others?
It's an issue, no doubt about that. Luckily it hasn't cost us yet.
Maybe Mr. Mara should have a sitdown with Odell and just talk to him man to man.
Not TD Celebrations, but let's not forget 3 in one game against Josh Norman.
Right there between the two of us, we just named 6 15 yard penalties.
Oh, no. I wasn't discounting that at all. I was just asking specifically after touchdowns.
He also had that bogus one against the Vikings last year too.
No it was acting like a SOB
Quote:
is acting like a man?
No it was acting like a SOB
literally.
1. It was a stupid, embarrassing, lame, and unfunny thing to do.
2. At the very least he knew he could be penalized for it.
3. When asked about it after the game he implied he would keep acting in the same manner, consequences be damned.
What else is there to really know?
I would imagine to blind love affair many have with him stems from his fantasy football performance.
This whole thing is pointlessly messy and I fail to see how Mara contradicting his HC about this so publicly is going to help anything. Once McAdoo dumped it, it should have been dealt with behind the scenes, regardless of how anyone really felt.
And his shitty oline
And reeses shitty draft picks
And his shitty 0-3 record
Instead of the only guy on your team that can score TDs?
Its a TD celebration. Who gives a fuck? Not like we're on track to see a while lot more of them this season...
I would imagine to blind love affair many have with him stems from his fantasy football performance.
There you go again, claiming people don't recognize he should behave better. And the great fantasy footbal lesson, that's always a good one too.
I think that is the argument for trading him, in a nutshell. Can the return help us win more games than keeping him.
It's a legit discussion point.
yes because beckham is the reason the giants are losing games, you think they go 11-5 last year without beckham?
this.....not a disciplined team and their focus is on shit not related to winning. kneeling and dog fire hydrant stuff.
Quote:
we could probably trade him for several guys and win more games without him. Desean Jackson wore out his welcome too in Philly, same stuff here.
yes because beckham is the reason the giants are losing games, you think they go 11-5 last year without beckham?
That's missing the point.
Quote:
we could probably trade him for several guys and win more games without him. Desean Jackson wore out his welcome too in Philly, same stuff here.
I think that is the argument for trading him, in a nutshell. Can the return help us win more games than keeping him.
It's a legit discussion point.
It's a discussion, but do you believe the Giants would get full value back?
I mean, you're talking about a Hershel Walker/RG3/Jared Goff type trade. That's what I would want in return.
Quote:
we could probably trade him for several guys and win more games without him. Desean Jackson wore out his welcome too in Philly, same stuff here.
yes because beckham is the reason the giants are losing games, you think they go 11-5 last year without beckham?
Yes, weak schedule and all. Btw we are 0-3 right now, so keep up grandpa.
That is BBI.
Quote:
would be unwilling to admit there is an underlying problem with Beckham and his behavior.
I would imagine to blind love affair many have with him stems from his fantasy football performance.
There you go again, claiming people don't recognize he should behave better. And the great fantasy footbal lesson, that's always a good one too.
but LT is a great giant and should be loved by all fans...
excuse me if i dont hate a kid having fun playing a GAME!!! who is easily the best player on the team...
it is a fucking game, the kid isnt out raping people and doing drugs and beating women, he works hard and has fun..
i am so tired og giants fans who think the giants organization is above celebrating and the "diva" wide receiver...give me a fucking break, this os the same organization that has employed, women beatwrs, drug addicts and convicted felons...please stop with the giants and their fans are better than this...
I would imagine to blind love affair many have with him stems from his fantasy football performance.
Maybe I have my head up my ass, but I think the bigger "underlining problem" is the poor play by everyone except Odell Beckham.
The guy had 2 great TD passes at a time when no other Giant was able to get into the endzone. Our offense looked horrible durring the games his was still injured.
But we have multiple threads this week about how OBJ's penalty and celebrations are the problem? Untill the guys starts publicing calling out Eli or his teammates he is still the MVP of our team.
Quote:
In comment 13619603 mdc1 said:
Quote:
we could probably trade him for several guys and win more games without him. Desean Jackson wore out his welcome too in Philly, same stuff here.
yes because beckham is the reason the giants are losing games, you think they go 11-5 last year without beckham?
Yes, weak schedule and all. Btw we are 0-3 right now, so keep up grandpa.
you think the giants win 11 games last year without beckham? you are delusional
If only we were so lucky that Beckham's TD celebrations/overall behavior were the biggest issue with this horribly put together team.
The next question is do you trust Reese/Macadoo with those picks to develop top talent?
I'm wishy washy on that....
this.....not a disciplined team and their focus is on shit not related to winning. kneeling and dog fire hydrant stuff.
But the guy who did the "dog fire hydrant stuff" made 2 amazing catches for TDs. People who did NOT do that can't find the ball in the air (Eli Apple), can't run block (o-line), and turn the ball over (Eli Manning).
The guy you're complaining about actually produced. The problem with the team isn't "kneeling" (nice job shoehorning that in)... it's that enough people aren't producing at the necessary level required to win games. That's where people's focus should be, not on "dog fire hydrant stuff" or doing a poor job of connecting "kneeling" with discipline/losing games.
Here are some highlights to go along with his great play.
-A one game suspension for actions ON the field (which is pretty hard to accomplish in today's NFL)
-A new personal foul rule made especially after the same actions that got him suspended
-Jetting to Miami the week of his first ever playoff game and promptly following that up with a dud of a performance
-Multiple sideline disruptions and personal fouls
He completely lacks self control. Ticking time bomb.
Quote:
Its a man's game. What kind of world do we live in that loses their mind when a guy acts like a dog.. get a fucking life.
1. It was a stupid, embarrassing, lame, and unfunny thing to do.
2. At the very least he knew he could be penalized for it.
3. When asked about it after the game he implied he would keep acting in the same manner, consequences be damned.
What else is there to really know?
What exactly is celebratory about crawling on all fours and lifting your leg like a dog???? Anybody...Beuller?...Beuller?
Quote:
this.....not a disciplined team and their focus is on shit not related to winning. kneeling and dog fire hydrant stuff.
But the guy who did the "dog fire hydrant stuff" made 2 amazing catches for TDs. People who did NOT do that can't find the ball in the air (Eli Apple), can't run block (o-line), and turn the ball over (Eli Manning).
The guy you're complaining about actually produced. The problem with the team isn't "kneeling" (nice job shoehorning that in)... it's that enough people aren't producing at the necessary level required to win games. That's where people's focus should be, not on "dog fire hydrant stuff" or doing a poor job of connecting "kneeling" with discipline/losing games.
we lost the fucking game. get it yet?
Quote:
we could probably trade him for several guys and win more games without him. Desean Jackson wore out his welcome too in Philly, same stuff here.
yes because beckham is the reason the giants are losing games, you think they go 11-5 last year without beckham?
Sure, we probably could have lost to the Packers without OBJ and his big drops last year sure?
Who cares if you are 11-5 when you go one and out in the playoffs.
Win a damn playoff game then celebrate, how about that?
He is a great player, but he has this organization by the short hairs and he will do whatever he wants. The Giants have capitulated and will allow his behavior. He stated as such.
To me, and I hope I am wrong, I can see this whole thing spiraling down. The Giants are a bad team right now and they have been a bad team overall for many seasons. This could be the start of dark times.
Quote:
In comment 13619603 mdc1 said:
Quote:
we could probably trade him for several guys and win more games without him. Desean Jackson wore out his welcome too in Philly, same stuff here.
yes because beckham is the reason the giants are losing games, you think they go 11-5 last year without beckham?
Sure, we probably could have lost to the Packers without OBJ and his big drops last year sure?
Who cares if you are 11-5 when you go one and out in the playoffs.
Win a damn playoff game then celebrate, how about that?
OMG he had a bad game, you act like he had one bad game in a big spot that he will never be able to redeem himself...
it is sad really if Beckham is not perfect he is ripped to no end, if i was him i woukd leave new york, what is the point? he can be a star anywhere he wants to go, why put up with this anymore?
we lost the fucking game. get it yet?
Do you question Eli Manning's focus/discipline/patriotism (or any other reason you want to blame for the loss)? I don't, but I know those 2 interceptions he threw were infinitely more instrumental in the Giants losing than the "dog fire hydrant stuff".
This sport is very simple... players either perform or they don't. Odell Beckham performed well enough for us on Sunday to win that game. By and large, during the course of his 3+ seasons in the NFL, Odell Beckham has performed well enough for us to win quite a few games. I'd argue he's had to shoulder an unfair burden in the winning and losing of games for this franchise because there were too many holes elsewhere. On Sunday, there were too many other people who did not and yet all of your focus is on getting rid of him and not the under/non-performing players.
99% of BBI is in agreement that his celebration was dumb and the penalty could've cost the team. But that's not why they lost the game. You can't even make a horsecrap link between that and the actual reasons why they lost the game. And to think that ridding the team of it's most productive player will make the team better is foolish to put it kindly.
Peeing like a dog? Really?
Barry Sanders, Mark Bavaro, Larry Fitzgerald. Pick one and act like him rather than a freaking dog.
Its a TD celebration. Who gives a fuck?
brandon jacobs was loved doing humping moves on the dallas star...
beckham gets treated worse by the media and fans than women beaters and drug addicts, he is treated like a malcontent, it really is a joke at this point
Quote:
Its a TD celebration. Who gives a fuck?
How about people who take their kids or grandkids to the game? How about people who watch the game at home with children? That's who gives a fuck because next those kids will think it's cool to do some vulgar act when they do something on the football field, soccer field, basketball court, etc.
so did you hate brandon jacobs? do you hate LT? do you say to your kids you watched the greatest linebacker of all time?
How about people who take their kids or grandkids to the game? How about people who watch the game at home with children? That's who gives a fuck because next those kids will think it's cool to do some vulgar act when they do something on the football field, soccer field, basketball court, etc.
If Odell Beckham is playing ANY role in how your child/grandchild conducts himself, that's a YOU problem. (BTW, I don't mean you specifically.)
BBI would become so volatile that Eric will have to start banning football threads.
then, "it's ok we'll talk to him" discussions internally
Quote:
In comment 13619594 KerrysFlask said:
Quote:
Its a TD celebration. Who gives a fuck?
How about people who take their kids or grandkids to the game? How about people who watch the game at home with children? That's who gives a fuck because next those kids will think it's cool to do some vulgar act when they do something on the football field, soccer field, basketball court, etc.
so did you hate brandon jacobs? do you hate LT? do you say to your kids you watched the greatest linebacker of all time?
I don't remember LT doing anything vulgar on the field. Do you? What did Jacobs do that was vulgar?
People who understand how to evaluate football players.
Mostly the same people....
Quote:
In comment 13619695 Gman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 13619594 KerrysFlask said:
Quote:
Its a TD celebration. Who gives a fuck?
How about people who take their kids or grandkids to the game? How about people who watch the game at home with children? That's who gives a fuck because next those kids will think it's cool to do some vulgar act when they do something on the football field, soccer field, basketball court, etc.
so did you hate brandon jacobs? do you hate LT? do you say to your kids you watched the greatest linebacker of all time?
I don't remember LT doing anything vulgar on the field. Do you? What did Jacobs do that was vulgar?
seriously? humping the dallas star? you probably thought that was funny...
swriously with LT? he is a drig addict and a rapist and your ok with your kids looking up to him?
I know I'm still laughing at you.
Quote:
I have been saying to trade this guy for three years now and you all laugh at me. Well who's laughing now?
Like who? You? OBJ is a distraction who only tries to make one-handed catches. Hurrah.
Mostly the same people....
People need to get over it.
You mean unless you are Eli and then it is ok.
Quote:
I have been saying to trade this guy for three years now and you all laugh at me. Well who's laughing now?
I know I'm still laughing at you.
And I'm laughing at you! OBJ is a distraction.
Quote:
In comment 13619751 Frankie in Flushing said:
Quote:
I have been saying to trade this guy for three years now and you all laugh at me. Well who's laughing now?
I know I'm still laughing at you.
And I'm laughing at you! OBJ is a distraction.
yes because beckham is the reason the giants are 0-3
Quote:
we could probably trade him for several guys and win more games without him. Desean Jackson wore out his welcome too in Philly, same stuff here.
I think that is the argument for trading him, in a nutshell. Can the return help us win more games than keeping him.
It's a legit discussion point.
I agree completely. The problem is, if you suggest it you get skewered here. To me, if we sign him long term to a BIG contract we are stuck both with whatever stuff happens after that and with having to lessening spending elsewhere. Considering I see an entire OLine that could and maybe should be replaced, an aging QB who is leaving soon (and no set guy in the wings, though hopefully Webb can be), no running backs right now I want to say will be the guy and we still have some holes on defense (LB will be a need and safety is missing one part), we could use some extra draft picks and cash wiggle room.
Quote:
In comment 13619603 mdc1 said:
Quote:
we could probably trade him for several guys and win more games without him. Desean Jackson wore out his welcome too in Philly, same stuff here.
I think that is the argument for trading him, in a nutshell. Can the return help us win more games than keeping him.
It's a legit discussion point.
I agree completely. The problem is, if you suggest it you get skewered here. To me, if we sign him long term to a BIG contract we are stuck both with whatever stuff happens after that and with having to lessening spending elsewhere. Considering I see an entire OLine that could and maybe should be replaced, an aging QB who is leaving soon (and no set guy in the wings, though hopefully Webb can be), no running backs right now I want to say will be the guy and we still have some holes on defense (LB will be a need and safety is missing one part), we could use some extra draft picks and cash wiggle room.
Great point!
I think he needs to have a talk with Harry Carson and George Martin about how to act.
That is BBI.
The funny thing is, why can't you suggest trading a guy without it being personal? I am thinking long term. Name me one team that won the Superbowl with a Superstar WR and no other really good players at positions of Oline, RB and maybe even 2nd WR? Not to mention QB! I say this because if we spend so much money on OBJ we will be severely limited.
Quote:
and bash Beckham without the millenials throwing a shit fit and you can't bash Eli without the over 40 crowd doing the same.
That is BBI.
The funny thing is, why can't you suggest trading a guy without it being personal? I am thinking long term. Name me one team that won the Superbowl with a Superstar WR and no other really good players at positions of Oline, RB and maybe even 2nd WR? Not to mention QB! I say this because if we spend so much money on OBJ we will be severely limited.
Atlanta was some of the worst playcalling in SB history from winning a championship with Julio Jones making significant money.
So..
The Giants haven't neglected to spend resources on the OL, they've simply failed to draft/groom the players they've spent them on.
So, what makes you think that spending more picks there is certain to translate to success?
The Giants haven't neglected to spend resources on the OL, they've simply failed to draft/groom the players they've spent them on.
So, what makes you think that spending more picks there is certain to translate to success?
This x1000000. Sad, but it's true.
Quote:
and bash Beckham without the millenials throwing a shit fit and you can't bash Eli without the over 40 crowd doing the same.
That is BBI.
The funny thing is, why can't you suggest trading a guy without it being personal? I am thinking long term. Name me one team that won the Superbowl with a Superstar WR and no other really good players at positions of Oline, RB and maybe even 2nd WR? Not to mention QB! I say this because if we spend so much money on OBJ we will be severely limited.
atlanta just paid, julio and freeman and paid for a center in free agency...
you resign beckham you have to hit on draft pivks simple as that...
steelers paid brown and big ben and have to pay bell..
you have to hit on draft picks
The Giants haven't neglected to spend resources on the OL, they've simply failed to draft/groom the players they've spent them on.
So, what makes you think that spending more picks there is certain to translate to success?
In a crazy hypothetical world a trade would have to involve players and picks. Something like Beckham to TEN for Conklin, Ben Jones, and a 1st and 2nd rounder. Would never happen but I don't see a bunch of picks alone solving the Giants problems.
Seriously who gives a fck. He will clean up the celebration next week, and we move on. He is the best player on the team and maybe best non qb in the league.
He is known as a good teammate and cares about winning, works at his craft, and Is young. What else do you want... in reality nothing else. Play hard, work hard off the field, be a good teammate, be a good citizen. Mara was right to make a statement, mcadoo will talk to him this week, and it will be over. The guy almost carried the team with Eli to 1-2... others fell short... focus on those guys.
Quote:
The mistake a lot of you guys are making is assuming that trading Odell for picks is going to translate to a better football team because you assume those picks will be used on OL talent.
The Giants haven't neglected to spend resources on the OL, they've simply failed to draft/groom the players they've spent them on.
So, what makes you think that spending more picks there is certain to translate to success?
In a crazy hypothetical world a trade would have to involve players and picks. Something like Beckham to TEN for Conklin, Ben Jones, and a 1st and 2nd rounder. Would never happen but I don't see a bunch of picks alone solving the Giants problems.
That's really the issue - while a haul like that from TEN would be nice, we know it's not going to happen, so it's really just fantasy land stuff.
A lot of the guys here want to just dump him off for picks or whatever we can get because they don't like his personality. Probably not the best way to go about handling personnel.
Quote:
In comment 13619751 Frankie in Flushing said:
Quote:
I have been saying to trade this guy for three years now and you all laugh at me. Well who's laughing now?
I know I'm still laughing at you.
And I'm laughing at you! OBJ is a distraction.
That's just fucking dumb. If he's a distraction it only to the media.
Here's a team that has one of the worst OLs in the league, a running game that can't get to the line of scrimmage half the time, a receiver in Marshall who already has a handful of drops, and a defense that has under performed.
Yet the media and fans are only talking about OBJ'S dog dance. McAdoo and Reese should be on their knees thanking him for taking the heat that deserves to be on them.
Talent rules. Always has. Beckham doesn't play; the Giants don't score. As far as portioning out the blame, I think there is probably a degree of a Multiple Migs personality disorder at work. So Marshall could bring him under his wing- except he launched a projectile at someone in Philly. Tough gig coaching this team. Too many personal agenda guys.
Quote:
In comment 13619620 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
and bash Beckham without the millenials throwing a shit fit and you can't bash Eli without the over 40 crowd doing the same.
That is BBI.
The funny thing is, why can't you suggest trading a guy without it being personal? I am thinking long term. Name me one team that won the Superbowl with a Superstar WR and no other really good players at positions of Oline, RB and maybe even 2nd WR? Not to mention QB! I say this because if we spend so much money on OBJ we will be severely limited.
Atlanta was some of the worst playcalling in SB history from winning a championship with Julio Jones making significant money.
So..
Demaryius Thomas was making around $15 mil in 2015 when the Broncos won.
Definitely. It's a simple statement to make:
"Listen up, boneheads. I get that scoring a TD on this team is an event rare enough to celebrate, but enough with the prepubescent shit when scoring, okay? You realize that if they call you on that we get penalized 15 yards when kicking off? You seen our special teams? Yeah, exactly."
Quote:
The mistake a lot of you guys are making is assuming that trading Odell for picks is going to translate to a better football team because you assume those picks will be used on OL talent.
The Giants haven't neglected to spend resources on the OL, they've simply failed to draft/groom the players they've spent them on.
So, what makes you think that spending more picks there is certain to translate to success?
This x1000000. Sad, but it's true.
But what if they were to trade him and in return draft like four Pro Bowlers? Then it would be awesome.
Quote:
In comment 13619825 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The mistake a lot of you guys are making is assuming that trading Odell for picks is going to translate to a better football team because you assume those picks will be used on OL talent.
The Giants haven't neglected to spend resources on the OL, they've simply failed to draft/groom the players they've spent them on.
So, what makes you think that spending more picks there is certain to translate to success?
This x1000000. Sad, but it's true.
But what if they were to trade him and in return draft like four Pro Bowlers? Then it would be awesome.
What if you don't?
Talent rules. Always has. Beckham doesn't play; the Giants don't score. As far as portioning out the blame, I think there is probably a degree of a Multiple Migs personality disorder at work. So Marshall could bring him under his wing- except he launched a projectile at someone in Philly. Tough gig coaching this team. Too many personal agenda guys.
he is more likely to get jacked up by our opponents. The more you taunt and showboat the more it stokes up defenses to find your number and tune you up. This is a tough game. I think we found that out in the pre-season,
Quote:
In comment 13619826 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13619825 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The mistake a lot of you guys are making is assuming that trading Odell for picks is going to translate to a better football team because you assume those picks will be used on OL talent.
The Giants haven't neglected to spend resources on the OL, they've simply failed to draft/groom the players they've spent them on.
So, what makes you think that spending more picks there is certain to translate to success?
This x1000000. Sad, but it's true.
But what if they were to trade him and in return draft like four Pro Bowlers? Then it would be awesome.
What if you don't?
Would rather take the chance knowing that the alternative is a volatile, average receiver who will more likely get penalized than produce.
Given this franchise's proven ability to draft wide receivers, there is little reason to have anything other than rookie contracts at that position. It would seem to me a better approach to spend FA money in areas where we tend to draft poorly...like the offensive line.
You don't need to be a professional scout to know that Kelechi Osemele, Mitchell Schwartz, and Andrew Whitworth are top offensive linemen.
Whitworth is the bothersome one
Lastly stating paying obj 20m is a mistake is an opinion not a fact
Quote:
In comment 13619912 Frankie in Flushing said:
Quote:
In comment 13619826 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13619825 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The mistake a lot of you guys are making is assuming that trading Odell for picks is going to translate to a better football team because you assume those picks will be used on OL talent.
The Giants haven't neglected to spend resources on the OL, they've simply failed to draft/groom the players they've spent them on.
So, what makes you think that spending more picks there is certain to translate to success?
This x1000000. Sad, but it's true.
But what if they were to trade him and in return draft like four Pro Bowlers? Then it would be awesome.
What if you don't?
Would rather take the chance knowing that the alternative is a volatile, average receiver who will more likely get penalized than produce.
wait what? average receiver?
Decker
Thielen
Maclin
Beckham*
Amendola
Hogan
Devante Parker*
Gabriel
K. Benjamin*
J. Kearse
Moncrief*
John Brown*
B. Cooks*
Sterling Shepard*
Davante Adams*
Michael Thomas*
Jarvis Landry*
Jamison Crowder*
Tyreek Hill*
Here are the top 10 WR cap hits:
Hopkins: $18M
Dez: $17M
Fitz: $16M
Tavon Austin: $15M
Julio: $14M
Brown: $13.6M
Green: $13.5M
Cobb: $12.6M
Desean Jackson: $12.5M
Demaryius Thomas: $12M
Paying that kind of money for a WR, even for Julio Jones (who is better than Beckham despite the idiocy on the Jones v. Beckham thread), doesn't make any sense when college football is producing tons of cheap WR talent.
You're right. He's the reason we won't be signing 3 offensive linemen next year and/or the year after.
Quote:
The Giants could have signed any of those 3 players - Odell Beckham isn't the reason they didn't.
You're right. He's the reason we won't be signing 3 offensive linemen next year and/or the year after.
Or not entering a cycle of rookie cap qb ... in the next 2 years
Quote:
The Giants could have signed any of those 3 players - Odell Beckham isn't the reason they didn't.
You're right. He's the reason we won't be signing 3 offensive linemen next year and/or the year after.
Another opinion that you state as fact.
Of course the Giants have been dealing with Beckham's antics for years now. Long time coming? What's a long time coming? Mara coming out and saying shit that means nothing?
Noise noise noise noise noise.
C'mon man........Eli Manning. True professional.
Quote:
In comment 13619951 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The Giants could have signed any of those 3 players - Odell Beckham isn't the reason they didn't.
You're right. He's the reason we won't be signing 3 offensive linemen next year and/or the year after.
Or not entering a cycle of rookie cap qb ... in the next 2 years
That's entirely possible. And while my heart breaks at the thought of Eli Manning not playing for the Giants, the prospect of freeing up that much cap space is exciting. It could be a great opportunity to help change the character of the team in a way similar to how the defense was infused in spring 2016.
You pay Beckham, though, and you eat away a big chunk of that opportunity.
McAdoo talks a lot about playing heavy handed. It's time to get him some offensive linemen that can actually fucking do it.
And I just listed a bunch of quality receivers around the league (including Beckham himself) that are making a fraction of what Beckham is likely to demand in a contract.
We KNOW this team is good at drafting receivers. We KNOW that college football is producing lots of good receivers. So why pay a receiver crazy money?
It doesn't make any sense.
If Jerry Reese can't evaluate offensive linemen, perhaps the Giants should find a scout who can so that they can successfully draft some of their own.
Forget drafting - how much confidence do we even have in FA offensive linemen? We paid for Geoff Schwartz.. that didn't work out. We signed Fluker - he's not playing. Remember JD Walton?
You're trying to blame paying Beckham when it's probably not the right place to direct it.
This isn't about Beckham's antics...that's not even his fault anymore either. That issue has gone past him at this point.
What makes anyone think that more assets = better offensive line?
We've allocated assets to the line and are getting minimal ROI.
The problem, in my opinion, is not asset allocation, it's talent evaluation.
You said I blame Beckham for not getting those guys. I don't. I blame the Vernon and JPP contracts, and have from the get go. Well we're stuck with those two mistakes. I would hate to see another made with Beckham.
Kids gotta grow up some time. Why not in front of 80K asshole football fans.
Was it a stupid move? Certainly, and he will seemingly face some sort of reprimand.
As far as the fans, you really need to pull the stick out of your collective ass, get over yourselves, and move on with your lives.
A young immature guy did some thing immature. Must we blather on about it endlessly?
It is really about the Moneyball argument of football. We should start a thread on it. On it, I tend to agree with Terps. Asset allocating in any one position in today's NFL does not make sense. I would not invest an overallocation in WR, in fact, I think paying $20M for a QB is a bit crazy.
For me that means, you do not give Beckham top non-QB money. I know I am way in the minority on the next point, but I thought giving Eli his last contract was nuts for a QB who was 34. But that's me.
It goes without saying, if the front office is finding wrong talent for money, that is an entirely different problem.
If he said that then either he wants the money, wants out, or wants the money from out.
And as Parcells said about 3 things happening when you pass: 'And 2 of those(things) are bad'.
But I'll live with the excessive bourbon every night and the thousands of pounds Iof hot dogs consumed and I'll pay the money. Because he is transcendent. You may trade him but you'd better be getting a hit Broadway musical in return.
This isn't about Beckham's antics...that's not even his fault anymore either. That issue has gone past him at this point.
What you're saying sounds nice in theory but you aren't throwing out any targets to upgrade other areas of the team.
The FA OL class sucks next year. The most attractive guys on the market will be Pugh and Richberg.
If you're trading Beckham for asset allocation reasons it only makes sense if you need the money to keep certain guys or get certain guys. You haven't put up any names to think about from either category.
Like I said earlier, the only way it could possibly work would be a trade for players and picks. Highly unlikely we'd get a team with both the players and picks we want.
However, one counterpoint to your argument is that if you are going to give a 5 year deal with a high upfront guarantee and/or upfront signing bonus plus 5 year high salary, you are making a five year commitment.
So it is not your 1 yr FA OL class you need to consider, it is at least the next 3 to 4 years of FA class.
However, for next year, I don't know how we pay OBJ and also keep Eli on the payroll.
But the point may be moot anyway if what are saying about the OL FA class.
I am still kind of holding out hope that our players are okay and our coaching sucks. I just don't know how it is feasible to assemble an entire group that can't consistently block.
Or offense is completely broken right now. I agree with those who have been saying that OBJ is the only reason why we moved the ball at all last year. Regardless, we need to improve at OL and RB. With OBJs new huge contract coming we will not have the money to do any of that unless we start dismantling our defense... OR unless Eli agrees to a pay cut.
I am of the belief that if you are dominant in the trenches, then you always have a chance. If we can sign OBJ to a new contract and improve at the line, then great. If not, then all we are doing is signing up for a few more years worth of what we have today.
However, one counterpoint to your argument is that if you are going to give a 5 year deal with a high upfront guarantee and/or upfront signing bonus plus 5 year high salary, you are making a five year commitment.
So it is not your 1 yr FA OL class you need to consider, it is at least the next 3 to 4 years of FA class.
That's a valid point but now we're going down a rabbit hole. While we will pay more for Beckham, we'll be paying less for Snacks, Jenkins, Eli, etc as the years go by. It's also hard to predict what FA's will be available beyond next year because guys get optioned, franchised, etc. To really get into it we would need access to Abrams info (to know our cap situation down the road) and be in the minds of other FO's re: their players (for potential FA's).
What I do know is under Reese the Giants have rarely lost guys they wanted to keep due to the cap. Cofield, Joseph, and Hankins are probably the only guys they didn't want to lose. If they extend Beckham, it will be structured in a way that won't prevent the Giants from making moves in the future.
People are talking about money a lot, well when OBJ decides
to grow up, they will decide to pay him. As is stands now,
they can still keep him around for two more years, by putting
a FT on him after next year. If you recall, they picked up his option for next year.
It would be beyond stupid to get rid of him.
except no-one managed to make the connection ..