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Giants need to fire Reese...

That’s Gold, Jerry : 10/3/2017 2:19 pm
If this was already posted, I will delete...
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Some of us have been saying that for five years.  
Red Dog : 10/3/2017 2:20 pm : link
Now more and more people are waking up to the fact that he's not getting the job done.
ditto  
jintsjunkie : 10/3/2017 2:21 pm : link
more columns like this and Mara will have to act.
This team  
NYBEN1963 : 10/3/2017 2:27 pm : link
has plenty of talent to win with ..Reese is not why the team is 0-4 ,it is the poor game management of the HC. Both the Eagle game and the Buc games were lost on the sideline. With better game management this team could easily be 2-2.
His performance  
Mendenhall : 10/3/2017 2:29 pm : link
over the last 5 years also came at a time when his franchise QB was in his prime. This guy kissed the blarney stone.
time to clean house  
spike : 10/3/2017 2:30 pm : link
but the Maras are very stubborn to change
Its a full team effort for why this team is losing.  
BLUATHRT : 10/3/2017 2:33 pm : link
Poor coaching is one reason, but the o-line, weak LB play and inability to secure an impact RB since the 2007 draft continue to haunt this team. So, while you have talent, you also have huge holes in key spots, that the coaching staff isn't equipped to coach around.
I haven't been saying it for 5 years  
Matt M. : 10/3/2017 2:33 pm : link
But, have said it for 2+ years. first of all, after 2015 when the Owner says the problem was primarily personnel, I find it mind boggling that the GM keeps his job, but the coach gets fired. Look, I was in favor of keeping Coughlin with a new GM, but concede that the timing of Coughlin being shown the door was not unreasonable. I could live with it if Reese had been fired also. Not only was he retained, but a coach with little significant coaching experience got elevated to HC and a lot of the coaching staff was retained.

Then he is getting way too much credit for the 2 SBs. First, the 2007 team was still largely put together by Ernie. He still had his hands on that team, so he does deserve some credit. But, I think of it similarly to the 1996 Yankees. That was largely Michael's and Buck's team, but Watson and Torre were at the helm. Now, 2011 is Reese's team 100%. However, that team won despite him. He put together an unbalanced team that Eli had to put on his back to win and the D had to step up to a ridiculous level late in the year to win. The players and coaches deserve a ton more credit for that team than Reese.
How can anyone disagree?  
trueblueinpw : 10/3/2017 2:34 pm : link
If we can send TC packing then certainly we can send JR packing as well. I've never been a fan of Reese's seeming propensity to eschew responsibility and he's regularly noted as being arrogant in his press coverage. Just doesn't seem like a very good guy. None of which would matter if his team were winning.

On the other hand, I really did (and continue to) believe there is enough talent on this team to win. Its hard to put the on-the-field problems like scheme and in-game decisions on JR. I think McAdoo is completely over his head in terms of Xs and Os. Hiring McAdoo - to the extent it was JRs hire - seems like more of a problem than drafting and UFA signings.
Giants haven't  
NYBEN1963 : 10/3/2017 2:37 pm : link
fired a GM in almost 40 years and I don't see it happening anytime soon...I would be stunned.
I didn't mean to submit - more to follow  
Matt M. : 10/3/2017 2:39 pm : link
Now, you have Reese spending 3 premium draft picks on the OL and the 3 guys range from OK to terrible. He didn't ignore the OL, as many seem to think. He just F-ed it up beyond repair and continues to. In addition to very uninspiring picks, calling into question their ability to scout OL, he has made several FA acquisitions, all of which have been disasters. When you repeatedly make moves that bomb and those moves are leading to terrible play and altered gameplans, etc. it is time to be held accountable. How many more chances does he really deserve?

The last SB is a long way away. Since then we have made the playoffs exactly once and lost in the first round. This year we are potentially the worst team in the league. 2 years ago we had the worst D in the league and one of the worst historically. For that entire span we have had one of the worst OL in the league. Enough is enough.

I think a house cleaning is in order. That means fire Reese and let his successor hire a new HC and a new coaching staff.
RE: This team  
MetsAreBack : 10/3/2017 2:40 pm : link
In comment 13629223 NYBEN1963 said:
Quote:
has plenty of talent to win with ..Reese is not why the team is 0-4 ,it is the poor game management of the HC. Both the Eagle game and the Buc games were lost on the sideline. With better game management this team could easily be 2-2.



I will never understand why people think things are one or the other. It can be both.

And I'll also add that since 2006 (Eli's first starting season in this league) this franchise has a worse cumulative regular season record than both Dallas and Philadelphia. Just 3 division titles in Eli's tenure here. Despite Eli playing every game over that span while Dallas and Philly have started something like 10 QBs each. I'm sorry, but don't tell me that the GM holds no responsibility for that truly incompetent and mind-numbing statistic.

But yes, we recovered 11 of 11 offensive fumbles in 2011, and benefited from lots of other breaks in 2007 and 2011 so Reese and others should get lifetime contracts (but not Coughlin). Alrighty then.
RE: I haven't been saying it for 5 years  
NYBEN1963 : 10/3/2017 2:41 pm : link
In comment 13629241 Matt M. said:
Quote:
But, have said it for 2+ years. first of all, after 2015 when the Owner says the problem was primarily personnel, I find it mind boggling that the GM keeps his job, but the coach gets fired. Look, I was in favor of keeping Coughlin with a new GM, but concede that the timing of Coughlin being shown the door was not unreasonable. I could live with it if Reese had been fired also. Not only was he retained, but a coach with little significant coaching experience got elevated to HC and a lot of the coaching staff was retained.

Then he is getting way too much credit for the 2 SBs. First, the 2007 team was still largely put together by Ernie. He still had his hands on that team, so he does deserve some credit. But, I think of it similarly to the 1996 Yankees. That was largely Michael's and Buck's team, but Watson and Torre were at the helm. Now, 2011 is Reese's team 100%. However, that team won despite him. He put together an unbalanced team that Eli had to put on his back to win and the D had to step up to a ridiculous level late in the year to win. The players and coaches deserve a ton more credit for that team than Reese.


What??? Didn't he assemble the players? Other than bringing in players and helping to assemble the roster what else can he contribute?
I have no confidence in JR or mac, but sheesh  
Dave : 10/3/2017 2:41 pm : link
how the heck does QUINN still have a job??
Have a better person in mind before firing anyone.  
Frank from CA : 10/3/2017 2:42 pm : link
The Giants need to hire a scout or two who specialize in O Line. This could also be said of Linebacker. The easy part is firing a person who underwhelms you. The true endeavor is figuring out what you want and seeking a person who may deliver what you want. What a mess with this team who can't block as a unit and can't tackle RBs as a unit. And then there is the punter.....
Right now, Giants  
That’s Gold, Jerry : 10/3/2017 2:42 pm : link
are a very bad organization...top to bottom.
Reese convinced ownership  
GeorgeAdams33 : 10/3/2017 2:44 pm : link
Gilbride was axed for not developing his great draft choices and Coughlin was axed because we had too many injuries. McAdoo was brought in and forced down TC's throat. OBJ was drafted and he changed our offense, but by the end of his 2nd year teams have figured out how to get into his head. Reese bought half a defense for big money, but they've apparently been reading their own press clippings. McAdoo is not fit for this job. We need to clean house.
I agree  
Chip : 10/3/2017 2:48 pm : link
My biggest gripe about him is that he ignores position groups such as TE which he finally addressed this past year. The OL is now an issue which has been bad for a few years now and the only move was to not sign Newhouse and sign Fluker which amounts to nothing. LB is another position that is much better now but has been ignored as well over the past decade. Its a tough job.
Well for starters  
Giants_West : 10/3/2017 2:49 pm : link
Firing the GM isn't going to do dick to change the culture. Neither is blowing up the team. Only thing you can do to change the culture reliably is hire a different coach and let him bring in his own staff. Only way to address that specific issue reliably. Any other approach is a crap-shoot.
Reese shoulda been outta here...  
M.S. : 10/3/2017 2:52 pm : link

...a few years ago.

He forgot that NFL teams play with offensive lines, so he left the Giants without one.
Finally firing the GM seems to have done wonders in Buffalo.  
Red Dog : 10/3/2017 2:53 pm : link
.
I hear Dave Gettleman  
Emil : 10/3/2017 2:57 pm : link
Is available

I'm being serious
This thread is a who's who of people not to go to  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/3/2017 3:00 pm : link
for informed opinions.
Gettelman..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/3/2017 3:01 pm : link
is 66 years old. I really wouldn't want him to be a long-term solution, and this comes from somebody who thinks he did well in Carolina.

The Bills signed Brandon Beane, who was Gettleman's assistant in Carolina.
Most of the time a good enema cleansing results  
NYRiese : 10/3/2017 3:02 pm : link
in a feeling of cleaness and a new start in the world.
Gentleman  
AcidTest : 10/3/2017 3:08 pm : link
could be OK as a short term solution for three or four years until a more long term successor can be found.
RE: Reese shoulda been outta here...  
DelZotto : 10/3/2017 3:18 pm : link
In comment 13629279 M.S. said:
Quote:

...a few years ago.

He forgot that NFL teams play with offensive lines, so he left the Giants without one.


Or linebackers or running backs.
RE: RE: This team  
The_Boss : 10/3/2017 3:46 pm : link
In comment 13629255 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
In comment 13629223 NYBEN1963 said:


Quote:


has plenty of talent to win with ..Reese is not why the team is 0-4 ,it is the poor game management of the HC. Both the Eagle game and the Buc games were lost on the sideline. With better game management this team could easily be 2-2.




I will never understand why people think things are one or the other. It can be both.

And I'll also add that since 2006 (Eli's first starting season in this league) this franchise has a worse cumulative regular season record than both Dallas and Philadelphia. Just 3 division titles in Eli's tenure here. Despite Eli playing every game over that span while Dallas and Philly have started something like 10 QBs each. I'm sorry, but don't tell me that the GM holds no responsibility for that truly incompetent and mind-numbing statistic.

But yes, we recovered 11 of 11 offensive fumbles in 2011, and benefited from lots of other breaks in 2007 and 2011 so Reese and others should get lifetime contracts (but not Coughlin). Alrighty then.


Not totally accurate.
Eli's first full year was 2005.
Since then, the records are as follows (prior to 20107):

Dallas 110-82
NYG: 107-85
Philly: 100-91-1

I know the NYG is something like 10-18 vs Philly. Without looking, I'm guessing we're right around .500 vs Dallas?
This is nothing new..  
prdave73 : 10/3/2017 3:53 pm : link
Been said many times the Giants need to clean house. To many issues from the top(Reese) to the bottom, they lack quality coaches.
That article sucks ass  
KWALL2 : 10/3/2017 3:56 pm : link
Changing coaches and GMs works? Sure.

When were they supposed to fire him? He won 2 SBs. After a guy wins a 2nd SB do you fire him after a bad draft or 2? No you don't.

Last year, they made massive strides at fixing the team. I don't care how you do it. This idiot downgrades the FA signings? Wait, evaluating NFL free agents isn't part of the job now?

On top of that, "change the culture" is a fucking joke of a comment.

Looks like the organization blew the OL this year. It cost us the first 2 games. They have been better in the last 2 but still a problem.

Is the OL thing all on Reese? If it is, then maybe you have a point.
MetsAreBack WTF are you talking about?  
Chris684 : 10/3/2017 4:02 pm : link
Who besides Reese are you insinuating has been given a lifetime pass? The quarterback?

You want to complain about win totals in the division during Eli's tenure? Putting aside for a minute, the fact that both the Eagles and Cowboys fielded superb QBs in their own right during large parts of Eli's tenure (McNabb and Romo), where do these things called Super Bowls fit into the equation!?

For whatever reason, you choose to diminish 2 monumental accomplishments by explaining them away as a streak of lucky breaks or fumble recoveries or some other nonsense but most organizations and fanbases would take the titles and not think twice.

I can go on and on about the degree of difficulty involved in each of those championship runs through the playoffs but it'd probably be a waste of time.

Since the end of the run with the core of those 2 teams (2012), when were you getting rid of Eli?

2013 was a bad season (both for Eli and the team, severe overestimation of talent).

2014 and 2015 were statistical peaks in his career and Pro Bowl worthy. Were you canning him then?

2016 finished with an 11-5 record and a typical playoff performance we're used to, only problem is the receivers didnt catch the ball.

Maybe you feel Reese is on borrowed time, but to say Eli is only here due to unwarranted loyalty is BS.

That is a  
BP in Delray : 10/3/2017 4:23 pm : link
terrible article. Easy to write a hit piece like that after an 0-4 start. Was this guy saying that at 0-0? Doubtful.

Lets see the rest of the season takes us before we fire anybody. Christ this town is merciless.
A new and novel thread.  
section125 : 10/3/2017 4:25 pm : link
I would have never known that people wanted Reese fired.
RE: I didn't mean to submit - more to follow  
LauderdaleMatty : 10/3/2017 4:43 pm : link
In comment 13629252 Matt M. said:
Quote:
Now, you have Reese spending 3 premium draft picks on the OL and the 3 guys range from OK to terrible. He didn't ignore the OL, as many seem to think. He just F-ed it up beyond repair and continues to. In addition to very uninspiring picks, calling into question their ability to scout OL, he has made several FA acquisitions, all of which have been disasters. When you repeatedly make moves that bomb and those moves are leading to terrible play and altered gameplans, etc. it is time to be held accountable. How many more chances does he really deserve?

The last SB is a long way away. Since then we have made the playoffs exactly once and lost in the first round. This year we are potentially the worst team in the league. 2 years ago we had the worst D in the league and one of the worst historically. For that entire span we have had one of the worst OL in the league. Enough is enough.

I think a house cleaning is in order. That means fire Reese and let his successor hire a new HC and a new coaching staff.


Matt. It's semantics. He picked one OL in his first 4 years as GM in the first 3 rounds. Beatty. Who was never very good.

Then when he missed on FAs and later picks grabs 3 guy's high. When only one of them is above average to the. Ignore in both FA and the draft the last two years it's hard to say he prioritized it

When he missed on Moore Bromley and needed guy's he spend a ton on Vernon and Snacks and still grabs Tomlinson.

So he prioritized DL And refused to upgrade the OL. Either way in 10 years he's literally added not on pro bowl level offensive lineman in either FA or draft. So let's just say there isn't a worse GM In finding offensive lineman. Watching his team w hey OL if he doesn't get fired ownership deserves this. We may kit but they do
RE: RE: I didn't mean to submit - more to follow  
section125 : 10/3/2017 4:49 pm : link
In comment 13629408 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 13629252 Matt M. said:


Quote:
So he prioritized DL And refused to upgrade the OL. Either way in 10 years he's literally added not on pro bowl level offensive lineman in either FA or draft. So let's just say there isn't a worse GM In finding offensive lineman. Watching his team w hey OL if he doesn't get fired ownership deserves this. We may kit but they do


Not for nothing, many people outside BBI think Richburg is very good and last year many said Pugh was playing at Pro Bowl level before the knee injury. Now these people are the media we listen to on the network TVs, so who do we believe?
RE: MetsAreBack WTF are you talking about?  
MetsAreBack : 10/3/2017 4:56 pm : link
In comment 13629375 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Who besides Reese are you insinuating has been given a lifetime pass? The quarterback?

You want to complain about win totals in the division during Eli's tenure? Putting aside for a minute, the fact that both the Eagles and Cowboys fielded superb QBs in their own right during large parts of Eli's tenure (McNabb and Romo), where do these things called Super Bowls fit into the equation!?

For whatever reason, you choose to diminish 2 monumental accomplishments by explaining them away as a streak of lucky breaks or fumble recoveries or some other nonsense but most organizations and fanbases would take the titles and not think twice.

I can go on and on about the degree of difficulty involved in each of those championship runs through the playoffs but it'd probably be a waste of time.

Since the end of the run with the core of those 2 teams (2012), when were you getting rid of Eli?

2013 was a bad season (both for Eli and the team, severe overestimation of talent).

2014 and 2015 were statistical peaks in his career and Pro Bowl worthy. Were you canning him then?

2016 finished with an 11-5 record and a typical playoff performance we're used to, only problem is the receivers didnt catch the ball.

Maybe you feel Reese is on borrowed time, but to say Eli is only here due to unwarranted loyalty is BS.


Isnt this thread about Reese? I was talking about Reese. Where did I say fire Eli? I simply said I expected a shit-ton better results having a borderline HoF QB in place for over 200 consecutive games now while other teams went through 5, 10+ starters in this division. That strikes me as common sense.

Its time for Reese to take a hike. The lucky components of the two runs was just to provide context that at no time did Reese build a powerhouse here (closest thing we've had was 2008 which actually if that team had won instead of the 2011 team - which 90% of the time doesn't even get a chance to perform in the postseason, 9-7 teams usually stay home). I think its a disgrace we haven't had more division titles in the Eli era. Just 3 in 13 years now, not even average.

GTFO.

McNabb was QB in Philly for 63 games during this 196 game run for Eli by the way (I excluded 2004 since the regular season record comparisons excluded that year, in which we went 6-10 anyway and I think 1-5 with Eli), or less than 1/3 of this tenure. So I'll throw it back at you -- "WTF are you talking about?"

Romo by the way started 127 (65%) -- so 35% of Cowboys games during that span were started by terrible QBs such as Jon Kitna, Matt Cassel, Brandon Weeden, Brad Johnson, etc.... or Dak Prescott

Separately, Bossman why would you exclude 2017 records from your comparison? Including 2017 then from 2005 (I got the stat off NBC's week 1 broadcast so I'm guessing they included the last 5-6 games of 2004 when Eli's streak began):

Dallas 112-84
NYG 107-89
Philly 103-92

What a joke. Honestly.
Reese  
PaulN : 10/3/2017 5:02 pm : link
Is horrible, I have never liked him, unfortunately this head coach is so bad it is making some idiots believe that Reese is okay when he is not, it is possible to have two idiots at once and the Giants do and if they do let either slide then we have three and when the owner is one, then the situation will never get fixed until something drastic happens.

I seen this story before, I seen 18 years of bad football played out week after week. It started eerily the same way, we had great management here, George Young was an excellent GM, back then it was Lombardi, Landry, and Owens, and EA was a solid replacement, the ship takes time to go off coarse after it has been steered well for so long, Reese took time to ruin this, because the foundation was so good, now he has done his job well, and just look at the joke of a head coach he hired, and the owners signed off on him too.

The biggest problem is the denial that will follow, nobody, including the fans who don't want to believe it. will believe what is happening for years, until the next thing you know it has been 5 years since they had a winning record, 10 years since they won a playoff game, but can't fire a last name of Mara, so the blame has to go elsewhere, this thing has just started to look so bad, this is just the beginning because who knows what they doing now in this organization.

There is no longer a Bill Parcells, no Tom Coughlin, no George Young, no Ernie Acorsi, they are long gone. Time will prove my point but by then who would give a shit anyway, even I won't, I still wished I were wrong, but when you seen this before, it is not hard to spot.
When people..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/3/2017 5:15 pm : link
say Reese has refused to upgrade the OL they not only sound idiotic, they completely ignore history. But they keep fucking saying it.
No he has tried  
XBRONX : 10/3/2017 5:28 pm : link
to upgrade the OL and failed.
Exactly..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/3/2017 5:30 pm : link
he's tried and hasn't been able to
I don't think you measure a guys drafting ability  
KWALL2 : 10/3/2017 5:31 pm : link
by how many "pro bowl" OL he drafted.
The FA miss on Geoff Schwartz  
Chris684 : 10/3/2017 5:38 pm : link
has caused major problems for this team. Also, whatever your thoughts were on Beatty, don't forget his injury after he had earned his 2nd contract.

Reese tried to address. Failed on GS. Failed so far on Flowers, Hart was always meant to be a project pick. Jerry was also never brought here to be a starter.

In an alternate universe, this year's starting OL should have been:

Beatty-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-Flowers

We can debate how good that OL would or would not have been, but that was the likely configuration.
I think Reese is good  
adamg : 10/3/2017 5:40 pm : link
I think we're still in the midst of a rebuild moving on from the 2015 monstrosity that needed to be revamped. I think he waited to address OL until he saw what he had in Pugh, Richburg, and Flowers. I think the OL will be addressed in a big way the same way the defense was addressed in a big way in 2016 - in FA. I think you have to give Reese two more years before you say moving on may be a legitimate strategy. It turns out that outside having the best QB and best coach it isn't very easy to maintain a contender in the NFL.

That said, two superbowls is enough of a resume to say this guy knows what goes into building championship teams. You can't say that about many other GMs in the league.
Fuck Pat Leonard  
Rflairr : 10/3/2017 5:53 pm : link
.
Before the season started  
Rflairr : 10/3/2017 6:00 pm : link
everyone claimed this was the most talented team the Giants have had in a long time. Now its fire the two time Super Bowl Champion GM?

They dropped three games to teams no one thought were more talented than the Giants. Thats coaching. When none of the players are playing up to their potential, thats not the GM, thats coaching.

How the hell does everyone basically regress. And we're blaming the GM? The coaches either aren't putting these players in the position to succeed. Or can't get the most out of them. Name a player, any player and they aren't playing as good as they did last season. Thats on the coaching staff

When the GM gets you one of the best blocking TEs in football and you don't use him to help your tackles or help in the running game. Thats on the coach
Reese  
Giants : 10/3/2017 6:07 pm : link
how could he ever count on this OL again
I read the column in the op yesterday  
eclipz928 : 10/3/2017 6:11 pm : link
It reads like a long, ranty BBI post with no real substance.
It's hard to take firing Reese seriously when his  
cosmicj : 10/3/2017 6:14 pm : link
first two picks from 2017 were out there starting last Sunday. One of them - Engram - had a very impressive game for a rookie. Then Gallman came in and had an impact. This is just more evidence that Reese is a primo talent evaluator. You simply can't let someone with that ability go.

The argument that Reese doesn't deserve credit for revamping the defense because he had all this money to spend is bulls**t. We've seen time and time again teams f*** up major FA signings. Reese hit on all of them. That's no mean feat. (I'll leave aside Terps' much more intelligent objection about directing of financial resources and possibly overpaying for players. Even that conclusion wouldn't lead us to conclude that Reese needs to be fired.)

So there have been some mistakes. Reese is certainly partly responsible for that. The question you have as the owners is: how to remedy those weaknesses while continuing to employ Reese?

My thoughts as an amateur is that they need to hire an OL scouting specialist immediately. Someone who knows the position inside and out and who can do executive reviews of the scouting and the draft prospects to make sure the mistakes stop happening.

Reese also needs to do some self-evaluation, which I believe he did in 2012/2013 after a bout of bad draft evaluations led to a plunge in the team's talent level.

I think the real person on the hot seat is McAdoo. The coaching mistakes are glaring and the players' attention to detail is wanting. This situation screams to me for a high-profile expensive hire of another head coach. The idea of paying of Mich and getting Harbaugh in here is that kind of a move.
RE: Before the season started  
cosmicj : 10/3/2017 6:15 pm : link
In comment 13629477 Rflairr said:
Quote:
everyone claimed this was the most talented team the Giants have had in a long time. Now its fire the two time Super Bowl Champion GM?

Thats on the coach


Rflairr -exactly.
No playoffs 5 out of 6 years  
jeff57 : 10/3/2017 6:19 pm : link
Yes, it's time.
No one getting fired  
Unemployable : 10/3/2017 6:20 pm : link
No one will be held accountable. GM is here for life. Ben has two years left.
RE: RE: Before the season started  
jeff57 : 10/3/2017 6:20 pm : link
In comment 13629487 cosmicj said:
Quote:
In comment 13629477 Rflairr said:


Quote:


everyone claimed this was the most talented team the Giants have had in a long time. Now its fire the two time Super Bowl Champion GM?

Thats on the coach



Rflairr -exactly.


Everybody? I guess if you leave out OL, RB and LB, maybe.

The first super bowl was 95% Accorsi.
RE: RE: RE: I didn't mean to submit - more to follow  
LauderdaleMatty : 10/3/2017 7:05 pm : link
In comment 13629410 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13629408 LauderdaleMatty said:


Quote:


In comment 13629252 Matt M. said:


Quote:
So he prioritized DL And refused to upgrade the OL. Either way in 10 years he's literally added not on pro bowl level offensive lineman in either FA or draft. So let's just say there isn't a worse GM In finding offensive lineman. Watching his team w hey OL if he doesn't get fired ownership deserves this. We may kit but they do



Not for nothing, many people outside BBI think Richburg is very good and last year many said Pugh was playing at Pro Bowl level before the knee injury. Now these people are the media we listen to on the network TVs, so who do we believe?


Who are these many people? He wad t good last year and it was blwamws on injuries. I dare you to find OL guys not banged up who still play well.

The OL has sucked for years. The running game has been one of the worst the last 5. I don't know who your experts at so please name them. And since you seem to think he's done a great job I'll give you Pugh as a very good G. You think that's enough? You also were very astute ingorong the rest of my post which points out how he ran out and paid Vernon JJ Watt money and gave Snacks a huge deal as well to fix his draft fuck ups.

Reesw does not prioritize the OL like he does other groups. And the two top rated tackels in this years deaft who weren't worth the Giants late first round pick are both starting at LT for teams w better records. So we can shelve that stupid pre draft excuse made by those of you still in denial

Reese's record as a GM pertaining to the OL is just bad and if you were to ask anyone truly objective objectively I highly doubt you would be getting lots of positive feedback any Giant OL guy except for PUgh.
RE: Exactly..  
M.S. : 10/3/2017 7:11 pm : link
In comment 13629453 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
he's tried and hasn't been able to

Is that a fire-able offense (no pun intended)?

95% Accorsi?  
KWALL2 : 10/3/2017 7:16 pm : link
Almost every player he drafted in 07 made an impact and helped the team win the SB.

He gets 5% for that? OK.
one garauntee is that they'll never fire him  
micky : 10/3/2017 7:16 pm : link
that's a given
RE: one garauntee is that they'll never fire him  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/3/2017 7:22 pm : link
In comment 13629520 micky said:
Quote:
that's a given


I don't think that's a given, especially after Mara's comments following the '15 season. It was pretty clear that Reese was on the hot seat. '16 might have cooled the fire a bit, but '17 has cranked it right back up again.
What happened to Matty in this thread?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/3/2017 7:26 pm : link
He's typing like like he wouldn't pass a breathalyzer test.
Reese  
WillVAB : 10/3/2017 7:30 pm : link
The issue is that his drafting overall has been below average. He's pretty solid in rounds 1 and 2, but his drafts fall off a cliff after that. Obviously you can't hit on all of your late round picks, but the good teams hit on some. Reese has hit on none. Then you have the multiple head scratcher throw away QB picks he's made over the last 10 years.

Take a look at the only undefeated team in the league, KC. Hunt, Kelce, and Tyreke Hill are stars and they were all drafted in the 3rd round.
This week on BBI I heard  
KWALL2 : 10/3/2017 7:35 pm : link
Vernon and JPP got Von Miller money. And now JJ Watt money.

Is that true?

Vernon got a big deal. No doubt about it. It's on par with Chandler Jones. Same guaranteed money. $53 million. Just about the same deal over 5 years - $83-85 million.

JPP got 4 years - $63 Mill. $40 million guaranteed.

Miller got $70 million guaranteed. $114 Million over 6 years. Not close to Vernon. A huge difference from JPP.

JPP got Melvin Ingram money. That's what he got. Ingram, like JPP, signed this year. Ingram got for 4 years and $64 million.

You're ripping Reese for this? Guys are getting paid especially 2 way defenders.

JPP had a rough game last week. His worst game that I can remember. Its not nearly enough to rip the GM and call for his head. JPP was excellent last year and would have landed a big deal because the demand was there. It wasn't just the Giants. Same with Vernon. He was 25 when he signed it. Teams were lining up to pay him. He's an excellent player.

We also signed Jenkins and Snacks last year. Does he get any credit for that? Jenkins is one of the best DBs in the NFL. Snacks is one of the best DL. Both in prime. Great signings.
Cosmic,  
prdave73 : 10/3/2017 7:52 pm : link
You have a valid point. I definitely agree Mcadoo is the main problem, but I think Reese is to blame as well. The lack of attention to the LB position, the amount of misses in the later rounds of drafts, the weak attempt to build the Oline(many gambles), and the amount spent on the defense to probably compensate for the weak overall drafts is reason for the blame. How can any GM really leave the Oline in that situation knowing that is a key position?! I mean just Compare the Giants Oline to the rest of the NFC east teams? Not even close..
I've got issues with some of Reese's decisions,  
Go Terps : 10/3/2017 8:02 pm : link
but I'm not sure I'd fire him. Instead I'd like to see the team self scout, acknowledge some of their philosophical weaknesses, and work to correct them.

I don't know why a firing is often viewed as a solution.
Probably a decent idea  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/3/2017 8:16 pm : link
when your GM can't fix your OLine to even be half-decent in about 5-6 years.

Just saying.
RE: I've got issues with some of Reese's decisions,  
Sean : 10/3/2017 8:20 pm : link
In comment 13629574 Go Terps said:
Quote:
but I'm not sure I'd fire him. Instead I'd like to see the team self scout, acknowledge some of their philosophical weaknesses, and work to correct them.

I don't know why a firing is often viewed as a solution.


I'd bet Reese would be hired pretty quickly if fired.

I'd also bet the organizational philosophy has been to patchwork from 2012 on to try to sneak another title in with Eli & ultimately its backfired.
He builds his offensive line by signing players cut from other teams..  
Fishmanjim57 : 10/3/2017 8:25 pm : link
He doesn't usually draft OL players, he doesn't sign free agents for that position, and he doesn't trade for OL players. He has a 36 year old QB who has been a "pocket" quarterback throughout his entire career, yet Reese hasn't attempted to address the on-going problem with his offensive line.
He also allowed Tom Coughlin to be removed and take the heat for his mistakes, and the replacement (Ben McAdoo), is an absolute disaster.
This team is going nowhere but the cellar for this season. The rebuilding should start with his immediate dismissal!
FIRE HIM NOW!
RE: RE: I've got issues with some of Reese's decisions,  
Go Terps : 10/3/2017 8:34 pm : link
In comment 13629606 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 13629574 Go Terps said:


Quote:


but I'm not sure I'd fire him. Instead I'd like to see the team self scout, acknowledge some of their philosophical weaknesses, and work to correct them.

I don't know why a firing is often viewed as a solution.



I'd bet Reese would be hired pretty quickly if fired.

I'd also bet the organizational philosophy has been to patchwork from 2012 on to try to sneak another title in with Eli & ultimately its backfired.


No question. And a decision like that goes beyond the GM. You can bet Mara, Tisch, and Coughlin had a say in that.
RE: RE: I've got issues with some of Reese's decisions,  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/3/2017 8:37 pm : link
In comment 13629606 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 13629574 Go Terps said:


Quote:


but I'm not sure I'd fire him. Instead I'd like to see the team self scout, acknowledge some of their philosophical weaknesses, and work to correct them.

I don't know why a firing is often viewed as a solution.



I'd bet Reese would be hired pretty quickly if fired.

I'd also bet the organizational philosophy has been to patchwork from 2012 on to try to sneak another title in with Eli & ultimately its backfired.


Him being hired somewhere else doesn't mean he's still the right guy to be here.
some fans act as if changing GMs is some sort of betrayal  
idiotsavant : 10/3/2017 8:41 pm : link
or something personal.

You may simply change to change the emphasis, or change the focus, or gain a different type of insight.

Perhaps a team that's loaded down with offensive linesmen and big DTs can use a GM that is receiver centric...and needs Reese. Fine.

Why is this job different from all other jobs?

Mara should step a few steps back as well.

This is not 1957 nor a small family business. This franchise has great potential to grow, Great Potential.
RE: I think Reese is good  
Reb8thVA : 10/3/2017 8:45 pm : link
In comment 13629462 adamg said:
Quote:
I think we're still in the midst of a rebuild moving on from the 2015 monstrosity that needed to be revamped. I think he waited to address OL until he saw what he had in Pugh, Richburg, and Flowers. I think the OL will be addressed in a big way the same way the defense was addressed in a big way in 2016 - in FA. I think you have to give Reese two more years before you say moving on may be a legitimate strategy. It turns out that outside having the best QB and best coach it isn't very easy to maintain a contender in the NFL.

That said, two superbowls is enough of a resume to say this guy knows what goes into building championship teams. You can't say that about many other GMs in the league.


Wanna buy a bridge?
'Reese would be hired somewhere else'  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/3/2017 8:46 pm : link
Same people said the same thing about TC.

And who cares if he gets hired somewhere else? What exactly does that have to do with the Giants?
This Franchise is gonna be UGE  
idiotsavant : 10/3/2017 8:48 pm : link
Just UGE.

You're gonna luv it. Its gonna grow and grow, kids in China will wear our jerseys, babys in Ghana will be named Mara, ...and Becks....and Manning.

TV rights will be sold in every small corner of this Orb, this gentle, blue, Globe, this fragile EGG we call MOTHER EARTH.... and eventually, in the Entire Universe!

We are GONNA MAKE. THIS. TEAM. GREAT. AGAIN. !


NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG NYG !
The flip side..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/3/2017 9:15 pm : link
of saying most fans think it is a betrayal to fire the GM is that a lot of fans think replacing the GM is likely to return better results, yet it isn't often the case.

Reece needs to go  
Bluesbreaker : 10/3/2017 11:08 pm : link
Sure we have plenty of talent but with no run game and a
suspect O-line that can't put a stinking drive together
and hasn't hit the 30 point barrier in 20 games
Yes plenty on the coach but we have little to no talent
in 3 key areas O-line RB and LB we have very little in the
pass rush department either the lack of depth is the result
of too many failed drafts should have cleaned house when they
let TC go so somehow the blame went there instead of the
guys buying the groceries and now you want to sing the
same song ?
RE: 'Reese would be hired somewhere else'  
jeff57 : 10/4/2017 5:03 am : link
In comment 13629717 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
Same people said the same thing about TC.

And who cares if he gets hired somewhere else? What exactly does that have to do with the Giants?


Correct on both counts.
RE: When people..  
chuckydee9 : 10/4/2017 6:50 am : link
In comment 13629433 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
say Reese has refused to upgrade the OL they not only sound idiotic, they completely ignore history. But they keep fucking saying it.


Please enlighten us in how he has upgraded the last 2 years?
The biggest issue  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 10/4/2017 7:29 am : link
with this regime has been an inability to evaluate and/or develop offensive linemen. That problem has really caused the shit to hit the fan this year.

I'm not sure they will fire Reese, but I'm not sure how anybody can argue that it would be completely undeserved at this point.

A string of bad drafts necessitated a spending spree to rebuild a horrific defense. OL continues to be a huge problem. 1 playoff appearance in 6 years. Gm' s have been fired for less.
RE: This week on BBI I heard  
gmenatlarge : 10/4/2017 7:57 am : link
In comment 13629536 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Vernon and JPP got Von Miller money. And now JJ Watt money.

Is that true?

Vernon got a big deal. No doubt about it. It's on par with Chandler Jones. Same guaranteed money. $53 million. Just about the same deal over 5 years - $83-85 million.

JPP got 4 years - $63 Mill. $40 million guaranteed.

Miller got $70 million guaranteed. $114 Million over 6 years. Not close to Vernon. A huge difference from JPP.

JPP got Melvin Ingram money. That's what he got. Ingram, like JPP, signed this year. Ingram got for 4 years and $64 million.

You're ripping Reese for this? Guys are getting paid especially 2 way defenders.

JPP had a rough game last week. His worst game that I can remember. Its not nearly enough to rip the GM and call for his head. JPP was excellent last year and would have landed a big deal because the demand was there. It wasn't just the Giants. Same with Vernon. He was 25 when he signed it. Teams were lining up to pay him. He's an excellent player.

We also signed Jenkins and Snacks last year. Does he get any credit for that? Jenkins is one of the best DBs in the NFL. Snacks is one of the best DL. Both in prime. Great signings.


Free agency is the "easy" way to fix your team after "bad" drafting. While you can whiff on free agents they are proven players, it's just a matter of paying more than the other guy. Yes he did well with it last year but it limited him in his ability to fix his mistakes on the O-line.
Huh??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/4/2017 8:05 am : link
Quote:
Please enlighten us in how he has upgraded the last 2 years?


I said he failed to upgrade the line, not that he has refused to. Different things that people who are looking to run Reese out of town keep saying.

He's piled resource upon resource into the OL. We have 3 1st rounders (counting Fluker) on the OL and a high draft pick in Richburg.

Saying he refused to address the OL is the biggest pile of horseshit ever.
The most entertaining part of that was the implication that  
jcn56 : 10/4/2017 8:13 am : link
he didn't spend, and he inherited the only line he had worth a damn from Accorsi.

As if people somehow forgot that O'Hara was an inexpensive second tier FA from Cleveland, Diehl was a 5th rounder, Seubert was undrafted, and Snee was a 2nd rounder. The only significant resource spent on that line was the cap money used to sign McKenzie.

It's not that he didn't try, or that he didn't spend. He failed.
RE: The most entertaining part of that was the implication that  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 10/4/2017 8:32 am : link
In comment 13630251 jcn56 said:
Quote:
he didn't spend, and he inherited the only line he had worth a damn from Accorsi.

As if people somehow forgot that O'Hara was an inexpensive second tier FA from Cleveland, Diehl was a 5th rounder, Seubert was undrafted, and Snee was a 2nd rounder. The only significant resource spent on that line was the cap money used to sign McKenzie.

It's not that he didn't try, or that he didn't spend. He failed.


Yes, the real indictment is two-fold on the OL: his high-picks have not developed into elite linemen and he hasn't found any low picks/UDFA to turn into solid starters. In FA, they got two years out of Baas, but he and Schwartz never could stay healthy and the rest have been below average because of bargain basement shopping.
Reese  
siena16 : 10/4/2017 8:36 am : link
Reese has a lifetime contract. He's never going to get fired, all Leonard did with his article is create piss off the administrative hierarchy of the Giants
They've had some shit luck, too  
jcn56 : 10/4/2017 8:37 am : link
It's not to excuse the other issues - but Pugh being injured as often as he has, Beatty's career seeing a premature end, and Baas being injury prone when the guy had been practically bulletproof before certainly fucked things up. From Reese's post-draft articles, the plan was to put Flowers in at RT until Beatty hurt himself.

I'm not writing anyone a pass for Schwartz, he was hurt plenty before he got here and was just more of the same after.
And..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/4/2017 8:40 am : link
why do some morons continue to say that Reese has a lifetime contract and will never be fired?

This is said ad nauseum.
RE: He builds his offensive line by signing players cut from other teams..  
The Greek : 10/4/2017 9:07 am : link
In comment 13629629 Fishmanjim57 said:
Quote:
He doesn't usually draft OL players, he doesn't sign free agents for that position, and he doesn't trade for OL players. He has a 36 year old QB who has been a "pocket" quarterback throughout his entire career, yet Reese hasn't attempted to address the on-going problem with his offensive line.
He also allowed Tom Coughlin to be removed and take the heat for his mistakes, and the replacement (Ben McAdoo), is an absolute disaster.
This team is going nowhere but the cellar for this season. The rebuilding should start with his immediate dismissal!
FIRE HIM NOW!

I totally agree. Coughlin was the scapegoat in 2015. Maybe it was time for Coughlin to go but it was also time for Reese to go. The disastrous offensive line is on Reese--this has been an issue for years and I know he tried to address it but he did a terrible job--other than Pugh and maybe Richburg, the other additions have been uniformly bad. Reese knows he has a pocket passer and he doesn't get Eli the help he needs.
Again..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/4/2017 9:13 am : link
what in the fuck are you talking about?

Quote:
He builds his offensive line by signing players cut from other teams..
Fishmanjim57 : 10/3/2017 8:25 pm : link : reply
He doesn't usually draft OL players, he doesn't sign free agents for that position, and he doesn't trade for OL players.


The line has 4 draft picks - Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Hart. Jerry was a free agent. Fluker was a free agent. Jones was a free agent.

Who the fuck are these players cut by other teams? I understand Reese has failed to build the OL - but how do posters continue to get away just making shit up?
RE: Huh??  
chuckydee9 : 10/4/2017 9:23 am : link
In comment 13630246 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


Please enlighten us in how he has upgraded the last 2 years?



I said he failed to upgrade the line, not that he has refused to. Different things that people who are looking to run Reese out of town keep saying.

He's piled resource upon resource into the OL. We have 3 1st rounders (counting Fluker) on the OL and a high draft pick in Richburg.

Saying he refused to address the OL is the biggest pile of horseshit ever.


None of what you said has answered my questions please list any significant resources he has devoted to the OL over the past 2 years to upgrade the OL? a 6th round draft pick? a $3M/yr tackle? none of which are significant.. Those are the type of resources I would expect a top 10 OL to upkeep their OL.. On the other hand he has brought in 2 high round draft picks and a $11M to WR.. we already had a top 3 WR and just some competent level WR would've done.. yet we spend more on less important pieces then we do on OL..
I swear, this place is as bad as a cheesy 80s comedy sometimes  
jcn56 : 10/4/2017 9:34 am : link
I keep waiting for someone to ask if Reese had a plethora of offensive linemen...
In another article  
Beer Man : 10/4/2017 9:38 am : link
USAToday ranks Mac in the #2 slot for HCs on the hot seat
USAToday - ( New Window )
RE: When people..  
Joey in VA : 10/4/2017 9:41 am : link
In comment 13629433 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
say Reese has refused to upgrade the OL they not only sound idiotic, they completely ignore history. But they keep fucking saying it.
So that excuses him? He gave it a go, him and his talent evaluators failed miserably but guys, come on, he gave it a shot so let's absolve him. I'm wondering if you're being paid by the Giants at this point that you defend everything they do and everyone in the organization because you think you're smarter than everyone here. Guess what, you're not.
Nobody's trying to absolve Reese - and if he is canned  
jcn56 : 10/4/2017 9:50 am : link
at the end of the season, there's a pretty clear reason why - he's had several years to correct the OL, and he hasn't managed to do so.

But that doesn't magically make Reese stupid, or arrogant, or any of the other crazy things that people post. It's not because he completely overlooked the OL, like so many posts claim.

It might seem like semantics, but when people post like that they derail any possible opportunity to discuss the team like adults. Coughlin wasn't some bumbling old man, Reese isn't some clueless jackwit. The guy might not be getting the job done anymore, or he could have a blindspot the size of a Mack truck when it comes to OL, but he's not stupid, arrogant, lazy or anything else that people try to pin on him.
A little off sibject  
Mike from Ohio : 10/4/2017 9:52 am : link
But it always makes me laugh when you read one of these "Fire so-and-so" articles that starts with the on-filed performance, but then goes right to "they aren't friendly enough to the media."

Dear writer...nobody cares how they treat you! If you want Reese fired, talk about the team and the product on the field. His relationship with the media, and the tone he sets for the rest of the team with the media, is completely irrelevant to everybody but you. It's sort of like wanting Reese fired because you brought your kid to his first game and they didn't win. Your butt-hurtedness is not relevant to anyone but you.
RE: In another article  
jeff57 : 10/4/2017 9:57 am : link
In comment 13630348 Beer Man said:
Quote:
USAToday ranks Mac in the #2 slot for HCs on the hot seat USAToday - ( New Window )


If McAdoo is on the hot seat, Reese should be on the burning seat.
What the fuck..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/4/2017 9:58 am : link
is your problem now?

Quote:
I'm wondering if you're being paid by the Giants at this point that you defend everything they do and everyone in the organization because you think you're smarter than everyone here. Guess what, you're not.


My very first post on this thread said that Reese tried to upgrade the OL and failed. He's done an incredibly shitty job on that unit.

I'm not defending Reese, I'm defending the idea that he's serially ignored things. Multiple posters have said he's not done a damn thing, and it is flat out wrong.

Why is it considered defending the team when I'm refuting shitty logic?

I'm not smarter than everyone here, but I'm smart enough to know what ignoring something means.

Maybe if you read my first post you wouldn't have been such a fucking tool.
Reese waited until it was broken  
ghost718 : 10/4/2017 10:03 am : link
Than addressed it and failed,and last year he ignored it.
RE: Reese waited until it was broken  
Beer Man : 10/4/2017 10:05 am : link
In comment 13630385 ghost718 said:
Quote:
Than addressed it and failed,and last year he ignored it.
He also gambled that the current OL would improve
RE: Nobody's trying to absolve Reese - and if he is canned  
Reb8thVA : 10/4/2017 10:10 am : link
In comment 13630364 jcn56 said:
Quote:
at the end of the season, there's a pretty clear reason why - he's had several years to correct the OL, and he hasn't managed to do so.

But that doesn't magically make Reese stupid, or arrogant, or any of the other crazy things that people post. It's not because he completely overlooked the OL, like so many posts claim.

It might seem like semantics, but when people post like that they derail any possible opportunity to discuss the team like adults. Coughlin wasn't some bumbling old man, Reese isn't some clueless jackwit. The guy might not be getting the job done anymore, or he could have a blindspot the size of a Mack truck when it comes to OL, but he's not stupid, arrogant, lazy or anything else that people try to pin on him.

Stupid or clueless? No I don't think Reese is either. However, I do think he is arrogant to a fault. I remember back when Steve Smith was trying to comeback from his injury and signed with the Eagles. Smith had been very productive and had become a fan favorite and a lot of people were upset that he was allowed to leave. Reese made a number of public comments to the fan base that were the equivalent of "shut up and go back to your corner and color, I know best!" And even if he was right, it was an arrogant and condescending way to treat your fan base. Even in press conferences after Coughlin was let go, he came across extremely arrogant. Some of that may actually have been nerves or a discomfort in dealing with the media but it seemed arrogant. I also think he is arrogant in a different way. He appears so rigid in adhering to his organizational philosophies on team building that have not always served the team well. So I do agree I don't think he is stupid, clueless, or any other similar synonym but I do think he can be arrogant.
Whether you're aware of it or not, some of you blame Reese for TC  
jcn56 : 10/4/2017 10:14 am : link
getting the ax, and hold it against him. And it seeps through in your posts.

Here are the arrogant statements from Reese following Smith signing with the Eagles:

Quote:

On losing Steve Smith to the Eagles:

“Steve did a tremendous job for us while he was here but it is free agency and guys leave in free agency and that’s the way it is sometimes. Nobody owes you anything in free agency. It is almost a dog eat dog situation in free agency but it happens that way sometimes. Guys go to different teams. Steve moved on and we are happy for him. I hope he gets healthy and plays for a long time. He did a good job for us but we have receivers here. We have accomplished receivers in Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham. They had 2,000 yards together and 20 touchdowns and that’s a lot of production. We have some young guys like (Victor) Cruz, who we want to see do some different things. We have Jerrel Jernigan and Dominik Hixon back. (Ramses) Barden is hurt right now but we expect him to come on and be a good player for us as well so that’s our receiver situation.”


...and...

Quote:

On whether he’s bothered by the perception that his team has taken a step back:

“I’m not bothered by that because that’s mostly fans who say that kind of stuff and they really don’t understand the process. We have good players on the team. We’re not looking to go out and make every sexy splash that can be made. We make solid football decisions. That’s been happening for a long time. Everywhere, you probably go to any camp, and the fans are saying that about their football team. That’s what fans do and that’s what makes fans great.”
I'm not goin to go back  
Reb8thVA : 10/4/2017 10:22 am : link
and hunt and peck for the statements that bothered me. I don't have time for that. If you want to cherry pick statements that support your view go ahead. In the end its your opinion that he is not arrogant just as it is min that he is. Nothing more.
Jerry vs. Jordan  
Enzo : 10/4/2017 10:26 am : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
You can throw everything else out....  
Britt in VA : 10/4/2017 10:30 am : link
quotes, arrogance, semantics, who got who fired, whatever.... and this is not in response to any specific poster or post.

The bottom line for me is this: Reese's failure to stock the O-line with talent now going on 6 years has directly led to the collapse of the entire team, IMO. Failure to protect your once in a generation Franchise Quarterback during what should have been his prime years is enough to fire him.

You could argue that the line is actually worse than when the rebuild started 6 years ago, despite numerous resources being dumped into them, including free agency money and premium picks.

That alone is enough to fire him, IMO.
RE: I'm not goin to go back  
jcn56 : 10/4/2017 10:58 am : link
In comment 13630415 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
and hunt and peck for the statements that bothered me. I don't have time for that. If you want to cherry pick statements that support your view go ahead. In the end its your opinion that he is not arrogant just as it is min that he is. Nothing more.


That's fine - I just provided the quotes he made in the press conference where he addressed the press regarding the issue you mentioned.

If you just want to say he's arrogant and not provide any proof, it's your opinion, so be it. I dug up what he said to see if I can find some reason behind why people would say that about Reese, and from these statements I don't see anything that a reasonable person could use to justify that opinion.

Britt - I don't disagree with that. I do think he's been a good GM overall, and his drafts and FA signings the past couple of years have improved quite a bit. His failings at OL are pretty damn bad, though. If the Giants feel they can improve over Reese with someone they bring in, they should give it a shot.

The same way I felt about Coughlin - which at this point a year and a quarter in, I still feel that they should have moved on, but it looks like they made the wrong move. Same potential for risk exists here.
I'm skeptical that his drafts are improving....  
Britt in VA : 10/4/2017 11:14 am : link
but like I said, the offensive line is so glaringly awful, and has been for so long, it's enough for me.

Eli Manning was 31 years old, coming off an MVP caliber season, with a second Superbowl ring, and then the wheels came off, and are still off in 2017. That just burns me up. Those should have been Eli's best years.
RE: I'm skeptical that his drafts are improving....  
Sean : 10/4/2017 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13630499 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
but like I said, the offensive line is so glaringly awful, and has been for so long, it's enough for me.

Eli Manning was 31 years old, coming off an MVP caliber season, with a second Superbowl ring, and then the wheels came off, and are still off in 2017. That just burns me up. Those should have been Eli's best years.


Everyone is to blame
RE: Jerry vs. Jordan  
chuckydee9 : 10/4/2017 12:17 pm : link
In comment 13630426 Enzo said:
Quote:
. Link - ( New Window )


If people look at the facts laid out in the article.. you can see that our late round picks are far worse than any decent team.. all of JR's supporters ignore these facts when articles are brought up.. and then when we say look Moore was a bad pick.. they argue that thats normal and our late round picks are average across the league..

News Flash -- Our late round picks have sucked for 10 years.. Thats why we have to pay part time players like Harris, Vereen and Ellison about $12M this year.. We haven't made the playoffs in 5 of 6 years.. 4 of them we sucked so bad we were out of contention by December.. GM has failed on more things than just OL.. he has failed to build a competitive team majority of this decade..
RE: RE: When people..  
cosmicj : 10/4/2017 12:30 pm : link
In comment 13630353 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
So that excuses him? He gave it a go, him and his talent evaluators failed miserably but guys, come on, he gave it a shot so let's absolve him. I'm wondering if you're being paid by the Giants at this point that you defend everything they do and everyone in the organization because you think you're smarter than everyone here. Guess what, you're not.


A serious comment deserves a serious response: this debate isn't about whether Reese can do better with his OL scouting or his 2nd & 3rd day picks. Every single person on this thread believes that he needs to. I'm sure Reese himself agrees with this. The debate is whether the solution to these problems is to fire Reese.

My response is that he is a very good talent evaluator who has certain weaknesses that he needs to address. The OL evaluation flaws are glaring. He needs to rectify this and build on his already impressive ability to scout DL (which is worth its weight in gold in the Giants system), receivers and DBs.

You fire Reese and there's a very real possibility we draft like the Dolphins or Browns did for a decade. Very real.

You have to build, not destroy.
RE: And..  
siena16 : 10/4/2017 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13630270 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
why do some morons continue to say that Reese has a lifetime contract and will never be fired?

This is said ad nauseum.


It's not moronic, There not firing Reese, Reese is an expert in the art of "Deflection"

RE: RE: RE: When people..  
chuckydee9 : 10/4/2017 12:49 pm : link
In comment 13630634 cosmicj said:
Quote:
In comment 13630353 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


So that excuses him? He gave it a go, him and his talent evaluators failed miserably but guys, come on, he gave it a shot so let's absolve him. I'm wondering if you're being paid by the Giants at this point that you defend everything they do and everyone in the organization because you think you're smarter than everyone here. Guess what, you're not.



A serious comment deserves a serious response: this debate isn't about whether Reese can do better with his OL scouting or his 2nd & 3rd day picks. Every single person on this thread believes that he needs to. I'm sure Reese himself agrees with this. The debate is whether the solution to these problems is to fire Reese.

My response is that he is a very good talent evaluator who has certain weaknesses that he needs to address. The OL evaluation flaws are glaring. He needs to rectify this and build on his already impressive ability to scout DL (which is worth its weight in gold in the Giants system), receivers and DBs.

You fire Reese and there's a very real possibility we draft like the Dolphins or Browns did for a decade. Very real.

You have to build, not destroy.


I'll admit he knows how to draft WR.. but he only knows how to draft o tech DTs and has no idea that you need one thats a better fit for 3tech.. Someone who can penetrate and get pressure up the middle.. every DT he has every drafted is pretty much a run stuffer.. As far as DBs go.. he drafted Eli Apple.. If anything he looks pretty bad for 9th overall pick.. but its too soon to judge him.. Collins is a stud and the only one that has played better than his draft position.. Prince was horrible.. you also have the Cooper taylors, Nat Berhe, Jayron Hosley, Tyler Sash, Chad Jones and Aaron Ross.. none of whom have outplayed their draft position.. Kenny Phillips also didn't outplay his draft slot probably because of injury.. but none the less final results aren't good..
RE: RE: Reese waited until it was broken  
BigBlueinChicago : 10/4/2017 2:31 pm : link
In comment 13630387 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 13630385 ghost718 said:


Quote:


Than addressed it and failed,and last year he ignored it.

He also gambled that the current OL would improve


This is the 2nd time in 4 years he and the organization have gambled on their o-line and had their season destroyed because of it.

Remember going into 2013, they thought Baas, Snee and Diehl would be able to go for 16 games despite the o-line collapsing at the end of 2012. Not only were they wrong, none of those three went on to play another NFL snap after that season.

So to gamble on the line and miss again. That's a tough one to come back from.
the line thing has been going on since fassel  
idiotsavant : 10/4/2017 2:55 pm : link
basically, finally along came David Diehl, who made them look good, they got lucky or picked up a piece of data somewhere.

But, by the same token, they have rolled the dice and missed.

Even Beatty, a 'hit', had known warts.

It's one thing to finally admit, some of you, that Reese is not line centric, has zero insight there.

But, Mara sounded like (2014?) that he was drawing a line in the sand...which just faded or was forgotten about. So that makes one wonder about internal focus.

Whereas JR has been opportunistic and insightful with skills position players like Becks, the years that they did draft OL, there was a definative feeling of "what linesman is on the board" (which is the opposite of opportunism). If you go back each time, the prior year, there had been better, opportunity as opposed to need.

Then, the guards - minimizing the guard position, a way of justifying looking at other types in high rounds.

Its been at least ten years that this has been the trend.
I'm not sure what you mean...  
Britt in VA : 10/4/2017 3:13 pm : link
Are you saying the line has been an issue since Jim Fassel was here? I'm not sure I completely agree...

From 1999, Accorsi rebuilt the line in one year using veteran Free Agents to solidify it. Enough so that we had Thunder and Lightning and a trip to the Superbowl.

In 2002-3, they hit on Diehl in the 5th round, and Seubert was there albeit recovering from what could have been a career ending spiral fracture of his femur. In 2004 they signed O'hara, and then they drafted Snee immediately following drafting Eli. The next year, they signed McKenzie, and that unit proceeded to play four years together without missing a start.

The issue began when all the guys above began their physical decline, and the cupboard wasn't replaced. Then, as mentioned above, Diehl, Snee, and McKenzie all split and we've been dead in the water ever since.
RE: His performance  
DisgruntledGiantsfan : 10/4/2017 3:20 pm : link
In comment 13629230 Mendenhall said:
Quote:
over the last 5 years also came at a time when his franchise QB was in his prime. This guy kissed the blarney stone.


It's a results-based business, and he has not been getting the results. So, show him the door.
RE: You can throw everything else out....  
DisgruntledGiantsfan : 10/4/2017 3:24 pm : link
In comment 13630431 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
quotes, arrogance, semantics, who got who fired, whatever.... and this is not in response to any specific poster or post.

The bottom line for me is this: Reese's failure to stock the O-line with talent now going on 6 years has directly led to the collapse of the entire team, IMO. Failure to protect your once in a generation Franchise Quarterback during what should have been his prime years is enough to fire him.

You could argue that the line is actually worse than when the rebuild started 6 years ago, despite numerous resources being dumped into them, including free agency money and premium picks.

That alone is enough to fire him, IMO.


This.
I believe this year  
Carson53 : 10/4/2017 7:27 pm : link
will be 6 out of 8 years of not making the playoffs.
That also includes 4 years in a row!
Still he keeps his job, I have said it before, he should
have left the same time as Coughlin, a clean slate
so to speak. I don't want to hear the bullcrap,
about getting to pick your own coach.
With this organization, Mara has a
hell of a lot more to do with picking the HC then a
Jerry Reese. Also, they thought they were better than they
were after winning the SB the last time, and kept some players around. After last year, he thought this O Line would improve, what a lack of knowledge of evaluating your OWN talent on the team, let alone possible free agents.
He brings back John Friggin Jerry, like really?
What's that old saying, 'those who don't learn from their mistakes, are doomed to repeat them'...Classic case here!
I understand the argument  
santacruzom : 10/4/2017 7:39 pm : link
And there are certainly things about Reese that make me wary. But on the other hand, how many times has it appeared as though he actually drafted a capable, promising player who exhibits potential in his first or second year, only for that player to cease development or actually regress? I feel as though that's happened with enough frequency to wonder if the Giants are average or below average at developing their talent.

Just on the the offensive line alone, many of us thought that Richburg was top-10 center quality after his rookie season and that Beatty was an upper-tier LT.
I guess history suggests it takes 5 OL playing for 4 straight years  
Jimmy Googs : 10/4/2017 8:20 pm : link
without missing a start for this team to function properly on Offense.

How ridiculous that would be if true...
I get the chance to go to a westchester country club  
The_Boss : 10/4/2017 9:15 pm : link
Often. One member is in the media (without revealing his name, all I’ll say is his twitter feed is relied upon heavily for NFL news) and plays golf on Tuesdays, it being the league’s “off day”. Well, yesterday I asked him about Reese. He said to me “maybe this is the year the thousand year reprieve he got for drafting Odell runs out”. Simply speculation but I found it interesting how what we say here about Beckham saving JR’s job is sort of known in the media.
RE: I get the chance to go to a westchester country club  
jcn56 : 10/4/2017 9:39 pm : link
In comment 13631166 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Often. One member is in the media (without revealing his name, all I’ll say is his twitter feed is relied upon heavily for NFL news) and plays golf on Tuesdays, it being the league’s “off day”. Well, yesterday I asked him about Reese. He said to me “maybe this is the year the thousand year reprieve he got for drafting Odell runs out”. Simply speculation but I found it interesting how what we say here about Beckham saving JR’s job is sort of known in the media.


That's almost as much bullshit as the guy with the Facebook friend that said Flowers eats too much McDonalds. Great work.
RE: RE: I get the chance to go to a westchester country club  
The_Boss : 10/4/2017 10:14 pm : link
In comment 13631182 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13631166 The_Boss said:


Quote:


Often. One member is in the media (without revealing his name, all I’ll say is his twitter feed is relied upon heavily for NFL news) and plays golf on Tuesdays, it being the league’s “off day”. Well, yesterday I asked him about Reese. He said to me “maybe this is the year the thousand year reprieve he got for drafting Odell runs out”. Simply speculation but I found it interesting how what we say here about Beckham saving JR’s job is sort of known in the media.



That's almost as much bullshit as the guy with the Facebook friend that said Flowers eats too much McDonalds. Great work.


The primary difference is I don’t make up bullshit. Personally, I don’t give a fuck what you (or anyone else here really) believe. I’m just relaying what I was frankly surprised to hear from this person regarding our GM.
No, absolutely not, we *totally* believe you have an NFL insider  
jcn56 : 10/4/2017 11:39 pm : link
You're not full of shit at all.
RE: No, absolutely not, we *totally* believe you have an NFL insider  
The_Boss : 10/5/2017 12:53 am : link
In comment 13631247 jcn56 said:
Quote:
You're not full of shit at all.


I don’t have anything. I just happen to cross paths on a mostly weekly basis with an approachable guy who happens to work on TV and Twitter. And before yesterday we had never spoken about football, mostly it’s been about golf and the such up on the driving range, like a few of the other club members I know. Believe me, I’m not sleeping uneasy tonight because some tool on bbi thinks I’m full of shit. You don’t believe me? Who gives a fuck?
attack the messanger  
Shirk130 : 10/5/2017 7:41 am : link
and old BBI staple
RE: attack the messanger  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 9:01 am : link
In comment 13631285 Shirk130 said:
Quote:
and old BBI staple


Yeah, BBI attacking someone with absolutely zip credibility claiming to have access to an NFL insider is definitely a BBI staple, I'll give you that.
RE: RE: attack the messanger  
The_Boss : 10/5/2017 9:41 am : link
In comment 13631320 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13631285 Shirk130 said:


Quote:


and old BBI staple



Yeah, BBI attacking someone with absolutely zip credibility claiming to have access to an NFL insider is definitely a BBI staple, I'll give you that.


The man is a damn member at the country club I am employed with you fool. Here’s another tid bit he’s shared with me for those on bbi who are fans of UCLA QB Josh Rosen: I was grabbing a club soda with one of the pga pros in the snack bar late in the spring, who happens to be a jet fan, and he was in there eating. While we were there he literally got word from one of his sources that the Chiefs were firing their GM that day. Anyway, the pro asked the member about all the roster deconstruction the jets were doing. Somewhere in the conversation, the member said you don’t want Rosen. His contacts have told him Rosen is a big party guy much in the mold of Matt Leinart.
Yup, I'm sure NFL insiders give the country club busboys  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 9:42 am : link
all the important tips these days.
RE: RE: RE: attack the messanger  
The_Boss : 10/5/2017 9:45 am : link
In comment 13631392 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 13631320 jcn56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13631285 Shirk130 said:


Quote:


and old BBI staple



Yeah, BBI attacking someone with absolutely zip credibility claiming to have access to an NFL insider is definitely a BBI staple, I'll give you that.



The man is a damn member at the country club I am employed with you fool. Here’s another tid bit he’s shared with me for those on bbi who are fans of UCLA QB Josh Rosen: I was grabbing a club soda with one of the pga pros in the snack bar late in the spring, who happens to be a jet fan, and he was in there eating. While we were there he literally got word from one of his sources that the Chiefs were firing their GM that day. Anyway, the pro asked the member about all the roster deconstruction the jets were doing. Somewhere in the conversation, the member said you don’t want Rosen. His contacts have told him Rosen is a big party guy much in the mold of Matt Leinart.


And the reason why I cannot divulge the name of the member nor the club is because we came under trouble a couple years back when a brain dead caddy announced on Twitter that the fucking Prince of Monaco was playing golf there a day ahead of time.
RE: Yup, I'm sure NFL insiders give the country club busboys  
The_Boss : 10/5/2017 9:48 am : link
In comment 13631394 jcn56 said:
Quote:
all the important tips these days.


Try again dick.

You’re only reinforcing the notion that you’re a piss poor poster who brings next to nothing to the table aside from confrontational bullshit.
RE: RE: Yup, I'm sure NFL insiders give the country club busboys  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 9:52 am : link
In comment 13631408 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 13631394 jcn56 said:


Quote:


all the important tips these days.



Try again dick.

You’re only reinforcing the notion that you’re a piss poor poster who brings next to nothing to the table aside from confrontational bullshit.


No, I'm just not some trolling asshole who for the most part disappeared during a good campaign to reappear during hard times and make up an insider connection to further his bullshit.

But please, table 4 needs some napkins, get on that.
RE: RE: RE: Yup, I'm sure NFL insiders give the country club busboys  
The_Boss : 10/5/2017 10:09 am : link
In comment 13631415 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13631408 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 13631394 jcn56 said:


Quote:


all the important tips these days.



Try again dick.

You’re only reinforcing the notion that you’re a piss poor poster who brings next to nothing to the table aside from confrontational bullshit.



No, I'm just not some trolling asshole who for the most part disappeared during a good campaign to reappear during hard times and make up an insider connection to further his bullshit.

But please, table 4 needs some napkins, get on that.


Trolling asshole?
This is exactly what I mean about you. You’re a scum bag cock sucker who brings nothing to the table.

I’m the fucking director of finance at this club. So like I said last night, having a world class douchebag such as yourself not believe what I’m saying really doesn’t faze me. However when you insult me along with
my occupation, I’m going to stand up for myself. Kindly refrain from engaging me further. As the losses mount, for those who are interested, I’ll pick my spots to ask if he’s hearing anything regarding McAdoo and/or Reese going further.
Jcn56 can go fuck his fist.
Yes, BBI is waiting with baited breath for an update from it's latest  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 10:14 am : link
insider. Please give my regards to area junc and Slade.
RE: Yes, BBI is waiting with baited breath for an update from it's latest  
The_Boss : 10/5/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13631446 jcn56 said:
Quote:
insider. Please give my regards to area junc and Slade.


Actually the chances of him giving me a scoop are remote simply because the golf operation here closes the bag room in early December for the winter. Members, especially the older ones, are starting to take their bags now to prep for moves to Florida. Chances are this guy will pull his clubs out in November some time and I likely won’t see him again until April.
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