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Shaun O'Hara Slamming the OL

Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/4/2017 4:17 pm
Tom Rock& #8207;Verified account @TomRock_Newsday 13m13 minutes ago

Shaun O'Hara on NYG line on @SiriusXMNFL this a.m.: "You’re going to struggle each & every week if your fundamentals are that poor. Every time I turn on film it’s just little technique stuff. If I was the oline coach those guys wouldn’t leave the field until we got it right.”

Tom Rock& #8207;Verified account @TomRock_Newsday 12m12 minutes ago

Shaun O'Hara on Ereck Flowers on @SiriusXMNFL this morning: "Our standard is so low it’s like, ‘Oh, you know, it wasn’t that bad. He didn’t ruin the game.’ I mean, he’s gotten better in pass protection but his run game footwork and effort is awful.”

Tom Rock& #8207;Verified account @TomRock_Newsday 11m11 minutes ago

More Shaun O'Hara on @SiriusXMNFL: "The one thing that just leaves you scratching your head is the simple aspects of the game. Combination blocks are things that Dave [Diehl] and I were working on in high school ...

Tom Rock& #8207;Verified account @TomRock_Newsday 11m11 minutes ago
Replying to @TomRock_Newsday @SiriusXMNFL

... If you’re doing a combination block with your guard or with your tackle you shouldn’t be tripping on each other, you shouldn’t be getting split by a d tackle. And we all watched the game and the first two snaps of the game they lose eight yards on two running plays.”
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RE: Reese  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 9:08 am : link
In comment 13631272 Hilary said:
Quote:
The real question I have is why the team would pick a player with poor fundamentals.I am sure the coaches at Miami tried to teach him proper foot and hand placement.If he did incorporate the right skills into his game in college why would the giants think he would improve at the next level.Same thing can be said of Apple.


They were wrong, but the thinking was he was a young player who would benefit from NFL coaching and use his physical talents to become a good tackle. Initially, the plan was supposed to be for him to play RT, but with Beatty getting hurt that pushed him right in line for LT, which probably just exacerbated the issue.
Hilarious....  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:12 am : link
Sh-tting on O'hara because you don't like his take? Saying he was as poor as our current guys?

Some of you just exposed yourself as completely clueless.
None of the guys on the current line could carry O'hara's jock.  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:12 am : link
and that's a stone cold FACT.
Why is it considered shitting on O'Hara to say he wasn't  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 9:14 am : link
much better than Richburg, or that he was vulnerable to the same bull rush that Richburg is. Richburg's not terrible out there, he's just not playing up to the potential he showed in his sophomore season.

O'Hara was a good C, not a great one.
RE: Not sure why people are attacking Ohara...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/5/2017 9:15 am : link
In comment 13631051 EricJ said:
Quote:
the guy was head and shoulders better than Flowers and he was a pro bowler. Every OL has bad games and if Ohara had a poor last season then maybe that is why he retired. The guy knows what he is talking about. He is basically saying what we are seeing for ourselves and yet some people are lashing back at him.

this place always amazes me


Funny thing about O'Hara, which seems to be getting overlooked here, is that he wasn't very good before getting to the Giants. He was several years into his career and the team that found him as a UDFA did not care to have him back. The Browns. He wasn't good enough to stick with the Browns.
Just stop.  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:17 am : link
From 2004 to 2010 O'hara was a team captain, a three time Pro Bowler, and a 2nd team All Pro.

There is no comparison right now.
Oh, and a Superbowl Champion...  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:17 am : link
.
He was also Giants Man of the Year one year....  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:20 am : link
and on the Leadership Council.

Saying he's not much better than Richburg is a slap in the face to a great Giant.
And finally,  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:22 am : link
he was the starting Center on the offensive line that gave Tiki Barber 2 MVP Caliber seasons, and was the starting center for arguably the best offensive line in Giants history in 2008 when we had 2 1000 yard rushers.

The more I think about it, the more absurd the comparison gets.
So because a team with an awful track record for talent  
jlukes : 10/5/2017 9:25 am : link
let him go, that diminishes just how good Shaun OHara was for us?

Awesome logic
What am I missing here?  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 9:26 am : link
Did someone say he's a bad guy? Or that he was a bad C?

Or is your impression of Richburg that he's some kind of turnstile?

Here's the thing - even if O'Hara wasn't a great center, that doesn't change his ability as an analyst.
His body broke down on him....  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:26 am : link
Same as Snee and Diehl, they got old.

But that doesn't mean he wasn't good.
Same with Snee  
jlukes : 10/5/2017 9:28 am : link
.
RE: What am I missing here?  
jlukes : 10/5/2017 9:28 am : link
In comment 13631362 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Did someone say he's a bad guy? Or that he was a bad C?

Or is your impression of Richburg that he's some kind of turnstile?

Here's the thing - even if O'Hara wasn't a great center, that doesn't change his ability as an analyst.


Multiple posters above are beating the drum that O'Hara can't talk because he was worse than Richburg...
Really? I see nicks14's post - that one doesn't merit  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 9:35 am : link
discussion, but where do we get 'multiple posters' from? Section125's post was pretty straightforward - didn't say anything about his work as an analyst, just that he was prone to the same problems.

You guys like to look back on the past fondly - we had a very good offense, but the offensive line was good at best. And in 2011 that championship run almost always comes with the caveat of '...with a lousy offensive line'.
The offensive line was "good at best"?  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:37 am : link
Is 2008 wiped from your memory?

When we put up 200 rushing yards on a Ravens defense that didn't let anybody break 100 yards all season?

Where we had 2 1000 yard rushers in a single season, which has only been done 6 times?
Or how about from 2004-2006  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:39 am : link
when Tiki Barber rushed for 5040 yards from scrimmage.

Our leading rusher this year is on pace for 224 yards.... FOR THE SEASON.
No, I didn't forget 08 - they were very good in 08  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 9:40 am : link
Were they a dominant unit for any sustained period of time?

If they were, why didn't we survive the loss of Plaxico?

Why were we talking about a 'skittish' Eli in 2007?
RE: Or how about from 2004-2006  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 9:41 am : link
In comment 13631387 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
when Tiki Barber rushed for 5040 yards from scrimmage.

Our leading rusher this year is on pace for 224 yards.... FOR THE SEASON.


Here's something nobody's going to understand, but we'll try - maybe it's because Tiki was a much, much better back than anyone we have on the squad today?
Dude, I hate to say it....  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:42 am : link
but if you really believe that that O-line from 2005-2009 or 2010 was "good at best", you're really exposing yourself.
The line continued it's excellence after Tiki left.  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:43 am : link
Derrick Ward rushed for over 1000 yards in 2008. Remember him?
And again - for all this defensiveness - there's literally one poster  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 9:43 am : link
on this thread who dismissed O'Hara for his play. And the quality of that post should have made anyone who read it just skip to the next one anyway.
NFL Team Rushing Rank by year:  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:46 am : link
2004: 11th
2005: 6th
2006: 7th
2007: 4th
2008: 1st
2009: 17th
2010: 6th
RE: And again - for all this defensiveness - there's literally one poster  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:47 am : link
In comment 13631399 jcn56 said:
Quote:
on this thread who dismissed O'Hara for his play. And the quality of that post should have made anyone who read it just skip to the next one anyway.


Then why are you here defending it?
RE: RE: And again - for all this defensiveness - there's literally one poster  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 9:51 am : link
In comment 13631404 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13631399 jcn56 said:


Quote:


on this thread who dismissed O'Hara for his play. And the quality of that post should have made anyone who read it just skip to the next one anyway.



Then why are you here defending it?


Because you people lost your fucking minds and went on the attack for something that never happened?

So by your posts, the best line in the league is defined by rushing yards? We'll neglect talent at the RB spot, since apparently these guys are all a function of their offensive lines.

Seems like with a franchise QB, a good D, and a dominant offensive line we should have been winning with regularity over that period, doesn't it?
I didn't say that....  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:55 am : link
but I'd say judging a line by Rushing Yards is a pretty damn strong indicator of how good they are. How would you judge them?

Secondly, I didn't call the O-line during those years "good at best". You agreed with the poster that said O'hara got pushed around the same as Richberg and then told everybody that the line was a lot worse than anybody remembered. So while you're trying to heap this on one poster, you're defending that post as if it's right, and adding to that narrative.

So what am I missing?
RE: I didn't say that....  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 9:58 am : link
In comment 13631422 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
but I'd say judging a line by Rushing Yards is a pretty damn strong indicator of how good they are. How would you judge them?

Secondly, I didn't call the O-line during those years "good at best". You agreed with the poster that said O'hara got pushed around the same as Richberg and then told everybody that the line was a lot worse than anybody remembered. So while you're trying to heap this on one poster, you're defending that post as if it's right, and adding to that narrative.

So what am I missing?


You're missing the part where you guys got up in arms that anyone was trying to discredit O'Hara's opinion, which was the crux of the entire argument.

Whether O'Hara was a good, great or lousy C, he's a good analyst, and he's entitled to his opinion. He's certainly not unbiased, though. He's heaped a ton of shit on this current OL, questioning their toughness and work ethic. Hard to say whether this is a fair analysis based on something he knows from the inside, or whether he's defending his QB.
Geez....  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:58 am : link
Winning with regularity over that period? Are you really going to go there?

2005: 11-5 Playoffs
2006: 8-8 Playoffs
2007: 10-6 Superbowl Champions
2008: 12-4 Playoffs
2009: 8-8
2010: 10-6

59-37 over that stretch, 4 Playoff Appearances in a row out of 6 years, and a Superbowl title.

What do you consider winning with regularity?
I'm just going to stop now....  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 10:00 am : link
because we clearly don't see eye to eye on the offensive line during those years.

Not only is O'hara perfectly qualified to give that analysis, but he's also a great Giant and was part of one of the best lines in the history of the team.
RE: I liked O'Hara,  
LauderdaleMatty : 10/5/2017 10:02 am : link
In comment 13630980 section125 said:
Quote:
but he got shoved around worse than Richburg, FWIW. I remember him getting abused on BBI back in his day...


He made the pro bowl and while maybe not Brian Williams was better than Richberg who had one good year. The Ol
Sucks.

He's saying what everyone else is saying. Solari was a mistake as was the HC. O'Hara won two Super Boels as the Giants C I thing he's a lot Moreton qualified than those here who want to alibi for the coach GM abd OL for some weird reason
RE: Geez....  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 10:12 am : link
In comment 13631428 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Winning with regularity over that period? Are you really going to go there?

2005: 11-5 Playoffs
2006: 8-8 Playoffs
2007: 10-6 Superbowl Champions
2008: 12-4 Playoffs
2009: 8-8
2010: 10-6

59-37 over that stretch, 4 Playoff Appearances in a row out of 6 years, and a Superbowl title.

What do you consider winning with regularity?


The only year that yielded a playoff win (albeit a SB victory, no small feat) was 2007. If you've got a franchise QB, a dominant OL, a HoFer on D - you'd kind of hope for more.
Then your expectations are out of whack.  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 10:14 am : link
Winning the Superbowl is the ultimate. And we have one smack dab in the middle of those playoff seasons.
RE: Then your expectations are out of whack.  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 10:18 am : link
In comment 13631447 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Winning the Superbowl is the ultimate. And we have one smack dab in the middle of those playoff seasons.


That's a fair point. Another thing to consider is that maybe none of those units or players was necessarily great (although exceptions for Eli and Strahan are in order, Tuck close behind), but they were all good, and very good, and a good coach brought them together and they won a SB.

Something that seems to get lost here. Eli, Coughlin, Reese - all contributors to a great run over a 5 year span. None of them perfect, and we weren't some unstoppable juggernaut. But two out of those years they came together to outplay any individual shortcomings and won it all.

To suggest that thinking O'Hara had some flaws somehow makes people forget that isn't fair.
We have had one playoff season....  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 10:18 am : link
in the last five, and that was one and done as well. We've been dead last or second to last every year in rushing since this line was put together, and we're ripping the O-line for 4 playoff seasons in a row including a championship, because they went one and done in the other 3 during that stretch?

Or worse, saying any of the guys on this line compare in any way to those guys?

I just can't wrap my head around that at all.
We're in bad shape all over.  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 10:20 am : link
I don't think O'hara said anything unfair, or anything nobody here sees with their own eyes every Sunday.

Flowers is ripped mercilessly on this site for appearing lazy and showing poor technique, and then O'hara says it and he gets ripped? I just don't get it.
RE: We're in bad shape all over.  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 10:24 am : link
In comment 13631456 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I don't think O'hara said anything unfair, or anything nobody here sees with their own eyes every Sunday.

Flowers is ripped mercilessly on this site for appearing lazy and showing poor technique, and then O'hara says it and he gets ripped? I just don't get it.


O'Hara ripped them for not working hard enough. This happens to be problematic because these guys aren't *allowed* to work with the coaches as much as O'Hara's line did. There have been hard and fast rule changes that prevent that.

There's obviously a problem with Flowers' technique. But unless O'Hara knows something from the inside that we don't, insinuating that he's lazy, when the coaches have said anything but (they praised him for working extremely hard in the offseason, going beyond what they had expected for him).

It could just be Flowers doesn't get it, and never will. That might seem like a semantic argument, but there's a huge gap between that and lazy.
Unreal any Giants fan  
sinister_bee98 : 10/5/2017 10:31 am : link
can rip O’Hara and side with Richburg. O’Hara’s a champion who anchored one of the best OLs of the decade and helped put a consistently good product on the field almost his entire career here.

Richburg has been part of this historically miserable operation for years on end.

So fuck O’Hara?

Unreal.
Yes, fuck O'Hara is exactly what it comes down to  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 10:34 am : link
Good job.
RE: Yes, fuck O'Hara is exactly what it comes down to  
sinister_bee98 : 10/5/2017 10:39 am : link
In comment 13631473 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Good job.


Yea it basically is. He correctly calls out the OL with specifics. And instead of us agreeing with him, theres this.

Remember last year when this fake tough guy OL was yapping anout having to stay on the field together, prioritizing toughness, and within a couple practices 3 guys were sitting out with bumps and bruises? That’s when Shaun really lit these guys up and it’s 100% justified. These guys suck BAD and deserve the criticism.
Oh Jesus Christ it's Thomas again...  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 10:39 am : link
Bumps and bruises? Why, did you run the MRI for Richburg?
Unreal.  
sinister_bee98 : 10/5/2017 10:42 am : link
Keep going to bat for these clowns!
O'Hara was a great Giant  
gmen9892 : 10/5/2017 10:45 am : link
And a VERY good Center. I also think that if Richburg had an All-Pro RG like Snee next to him, he would be right up there at the same level. That is not a knock on any of them.
RE: Unreal.  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 10:55 am : link
In comment 13631485 sinister_bee98 said:
Quote:
Keep going to bat for these clowns!


The second I read bumps and bruises I knew, this wasn't the kind of player who could survive in a competitive softball league.
question  
mdc1 : 10/5/2017 11:57 am : link
how many years of football did Flowers play prior to entering the NFL?
O'Hara right now would be better than 3/5th of our starting lineman  
PatersonPlank : 10/5/2017 12:49 pm : link
I completely trust his opinion.
O'Hara was a walk on in college  
Bubba : 10/5/2017 12:55 pm : link
and an undrafted free agent in the NFL. I think he knows what is takes to make in this league.
RE: O'Hara right now would be better than 3/5th of our starting lineman  
NNJ Tom : 10/5/2017 1:09 pm : link
In comment 13631631 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
I completely trust his opinion.

Except, O'hara and Snee both weigh about 250 pounds now. I doubt they could start for Don Bosco.
When O'Hara speaks I listen.  
TMS : 10/5/2017 2:13 pm : link
Undersized and not that athletic but determined, smart and football tough. He knows what it takes to play in the pits. The OL he played on is what it is all about in the NFL. Technique and heart will take you a long way. Our personnel selectors cannot ID those qualities thats why our OL went down the tubes.
RE: question  
Diver_Down : 10/5/2017 6:24 pm : link
In comment 13631557 mdc1 said:
Quote:
how many years of football did Flowers play prior to entering the NFL?


He was a 3 year starter for the Miami Hurricanes. He started 26 games with 22 of the starts at LT.
RE: RE: We're in bad shape all over.  
santacruzom : 10/6/2017 1:58 pm : link
In comment 13631465 jcn56 said:
Quote:

There's obviously a problem with Flowers' technique. But unless O'Hara knows something from the inside that we don't, insinuating that he's lazy, when the coaches have said anything but (they praised him for working extremely hard in the offseason, going beyond what they had expected for him).


I'm cynical at this point and that's clouding my perspective, but at this point I'm taking any claims or inferences that Flowers isn't lazy with a massive stone of salt.

Him being praised by the coaches means little to me now -- they somehow seem to be addicted to praising him at this point. Him working hard in the offseason means little to me also, because it's quite possible he's just one of those guys who only does the work he enjoys. Maybe he just likes lifting weights, but neglects to work hard on the things he should be working hard on.

All speculation, probably unfair, but fuck it. The league and world are full of lazier-than-average people and it wouldn't surprise me in the least that word of Flowers being among them is accurate. Boylhart's pre-draft assessment of him seems downright prescient at this point.
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