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Shaun O'Hara Slamming the OL

Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/4/2017 4:17 pm
Tom Rock& #8207;Verified account @TomRock_Newsday 13m13 minutes ago

Shaun O'Hara on NYG line on @SiriusXMNFL this a.m.: "You’re going to struggle each & every week if your fundamentals are that poor. Every time I turn on film it’s just little technique stuff. If I was the oline coach those guys wouldn’t leave the field until we got it right.”

Tom Rock& #8207;Verified account @TomRock_Newsday 12m12 minutes ago

Shaun O'Hara on Ereck Flowers on @SiriusXMNFL this morning: "Our standard is so low it’s like, ‘Oh, you know, it wasn’t that bad. He didn’t ruin the game.’ I mean, he’s gotten better in pass protection but his run game footwork and effort is awful.”

Tom Rock& #8207;Verified account @TomRock_Newsday 11m11 minutes ago

More Shaun O'Hara on @SiriusXMNFL: "The one thing that just leaves you scratching your head is the simple aspects of the game. Combination blocks are things that Dave [Diehl] and I were working on in high school ...

Tom Rock& #8207;Verified account @TomRock_Newsday 11m11 minutes ago
Replying to @TomRock_Newsday @SiriusXMNFL

... If you’re doing a combination block with your guard or with your tackle you shouldn’t be tripping on each other, you shouldn’t be getting split by a d tackle. And we all watched the game and the first two snaps of the game they lose eight yards on two running plays.”
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you know...  
superspynyg : 10/4/2017 4:19 pm : link
he is right.
Maybe Shaun is  
mikeygiants : 10/4/2017 4:19 pm : link
bucking for Solari’s job.
I just wish he'd tell us how he really  
Mad Mike : 10/4/2017 4:23 pm : link
feels.
#Truth  
Diver_Down : 10/4/2017 4:23 pm : link
The second tweet could be mistaken for some of the Flowers defenders on BBI. "It wasn't that bad. He didn't ruin the game." The only thing missing would be the fallback excuse that Ereck is a young kid.
maybe  
Rocky369 : 10/4/2017 4:32 pm : link
but he flat said his effort is awful. that's pretty damning no matter how not that bad you are
I know Jim Fassell isn't a BBI favorite  
81_Great_Dane : 10/4/2017 4:35 pm : link
but he said some smart and insightful things. These quotes are as best I remember them, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

1) "There's no natural progression in the National Football League." Meaning you have to constantly be working and fighting to maintain your level of performance, never mind improve it. I feel like the team was counting on a natural progression for the line, and didn't get one.

2) "It's phys ed majors teaching phys ed majors." I don't know anything about Solari but I don't expect he's the next Bill Belichick, never mind the next Stephen Hawking. I suspect that as a coach, he's just a guy. But I don't know these people, I have no inside info, I could be completely wrong.
Solari really needs to go  
Giants86 : 10/4/2017 4:35 pm : link
unreal....
Glad someone is telling it like it is.  
Blue21 : 10/4/2017 4:44 pm : link
Even the Giants ex-lineman are disgusted.
Welcome to the age of millenials Shaun  
sinister_bee98 : 10/4/2017 4:48 pm : link
Its all great hair and bluster with no substance behind it & no work ethic. Its crazy how bad Flowers is at run blocking. Never wouldve expected that. He plays like Jay Cutler at OT - looks like he just doesnt give a shit
RE: #Truth  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/4/2017 4:52 pm : link
In comment 13630919 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
The second tweet could be mistaken for some of the Flowers defenders on BBI. "It wasn't that bad. He didn't ruin the game." The only thing missing would be the fallback excuse that Ereck is a young kid.


I think people are commenting within the space we live in. Nobody thinks he's great, he's never shown any kind of special flash of talent. We also know he's not going anywhere in the immediate future. And he's certainly had worse games than last week. If we already know he's not very good, what purpose does it serve to discuss his performance as compared to a good tackle? We shouldn't be talking about fundamentals three years in.
RE: Welcome to the age of millenials Shaun  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/4/2017 5:01 pm : link
In comment 13630949 sinister_bee98 said:
Quote:
Its all great hair and bluster with no substance behind it & no work ethic. Its crazy how bad Flowers is at run blocking. Never wouldve expected that. He plays like Jay Cutler at OT - looks like he just doesnt give a shit


If millennials have no work ethic, then perhaps it's an indictment on the generation that raised them.
Blaming "millennials" is quickly becoming an overused excuse.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/4/2017 5:05 pm : link
The word is quickly losing it's meaning when you try to attach it to everything.
Funny  
Jay in Toronto : 10/4/2017 5:09 pm : link
Solari came with a good rep so I was hopeful. But Flaherty had a good rep as well.

I think some of the colleges do a much better job of teaching and developing OLs than others. I won't say my favorite, since I am clearly biased :)
The entire coaching staff should be wiped clean  
Matt M. : 10/4/2017 5:11 pm : link
We should be firing Reese as soon as this dreadful season ends. The new GM should be hiring the next HC and working with that person to hire the rest of a brand new coaching staff. And, if this were to happen, it would be the most important off season in a long time. If they don't get it right, then the balance of Eli's career is either down the drain or played out for some other team, likely a contender.
Wow no effort  
joeinpa : 10/4/2017 5:13 pm : link
That s a condemning statement.
I liked O'Hara,  
section125 : 10/4/2017 5:17 pm : link
but he got shoved around worse than Richburg, FWIW. I remember him getting abused on BBI back in his day...
C-B-A  
jcn56 : 10/4/2017 5:25 pm : link
He's saying they don't look prepared and need more practice. Basically, the same complaint about the majority of the OLs around the league.

No kidding, Sean. Problem is, they can't practice more, at least not with pads on because of the CBA. You'd think being that he was a rep to the NFLPA he'd know that.
RE: I liked O'Hara,  
robbieballs2003 : 10/4/2017 5:28 pm : link
In comment 13630980 section125 said:
Quote:
but he got shoved around worse than Richburg, FWIW. I remember him getting abused on BBI back in his day...


O'Hara had his issues but he was a small guy. However, we also ran an offense where Eli could sit back for 3 or 4 seconds and get the ball downfield. This OL is lucky if they give Eli 2 seconds.
RE: I liked O'Hara,  
HomerJones45 : 10/4/2017 5:36 pm : link
In comment 13630980 section125 said:
Quote:
but he got shoved around worse than Richburg, FWIW. I remember him getting abused on BBI back in his day...
Blaming the messenger
They're both essentially the same size  
jcn56 : 10/4/2017 5:37 pm : link
The same knock about O'Hara's lack of strength was what accompanied Richburg when we drafted him. I recall his draft day profile being a replica of O'Hara's.
If only they could leave them out there  
That’s Gold, Jerry : 10/4/2017 5:38 pm : link
until they got it right but you would think players have some kind of pride and would be out there after practice working to fix these basics.
RE: #Truth  
santacruzom : 10/4/2017 5:39 pm : link
In comment 13630919 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
The second tweet could be mistaken for some of the Flowers defenders on BBI. "It wasn't that bad. He didn't ruin the game." The only thing missing would be the fallback excuse that Ereck is a young kid.


And that he did a lot of weight lifting in the offseason so his effort and work ethic can't be bad.
RE: C-B-A  
HomerJones45 : 10/4/2017 5:39 pm : link
In comment 13630986 jcn56 said:
Quote:
He's saying they don't look prepared and need more practice. Basically, the same complaint about the majority of the OLs around the league.

No kidding, Sean. Problem is, they can't practice more, at least not with pads on because of the CBA. You'd think being that he was a rep to the NFLPA he'd know that.
They are last in the league in rushing and they have to go to 4 yard passing game so Eli doesn't get killed. The CBA is not an excuse. The other 31 teams who are better at running the ball do so under the same conditions.
about millenials  
exiled : 10/4/2017 5:42 pm : link
Flowers is Flowers, not an indictment of a generation. I've raised three millenials, and they're all resourceful, responsible, hardworking young adults. And so are most of their friends and cousins.

Flowers needs to play better.

RE: RE: #Truth  
Diver_Down : 10/4/2017 5:53 pm : link
In comment 13630999 santacruzom said:
Quote:
In comment 13630919 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


The second tweet could be mistaken for some of the Flowers defenders on BBI. "It wasn't that bad. He didn't ruin the game." The only thing missing would be the fallback excuse that Ereck is a young kid.



And that he did a lot of weight lifting in the offseason so his effort and work ethic can't be bad.


So much so that BBI had offered up the excuse that his fitness was improved and it would translate to improved technique/performance. Yet, when I rewatched the game this afternoon, you can see Ereck's jersey cut in the back to accommodate his fatness. I guess Jenny Craig didn't hold up her end of the bargain.
Stop questioning Flowers' work ethic..  
EricJ : 10/4/2017 6:07 pm : link
because...
1. You have no idea what you are taking about. You are not there.
2. Others on the team have mentioned that the guy is a very hard worker.

It is possible that...
1. He will never be a professional football player no matter how hard he tries
2. The coaching sucks.
3. Combination of the two and this is where I am leaning. The rest of the line is not playing so well either. Coaching must have something to do with it.
This guy  
nicks14 : 10/4/2017 6:17 pm : link
To bad O'hara was a turnstile in his last season he was one of the biggest culprits in losing to the Eagles that game.
Agree re the coaching  
lawguy9801 : 10/4/2017 6:23 pm : link
Flowers has basically gotten no better in three years. How exactly is Mike Solari earning a living? What is he doing to make the men working under him better? From the outside, it seems like nothing.
RE: RE: I liked O'Hara,  
section125 : 10/4/2017 6:25 pm : link
In comment 13630993 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 13630980 section125 said:


Quote:


but he got shoved around worse than Richburg, FWIW. I remember him getting abused on BBI back in his day...

Blaming the messenger


WTF does that mean? Are you a middle schooler? He's out there bad mouthing people of the same thing he was accused of 10 years ago. Pretty simple, no?
RE: RE: RE: #Truth  
section125 : 10/4/2017 6:32 pm : link
In comment 13631006 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13630999 santacruzom said:


Quote:


In comment 13630919 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


The second tweet could be mistaken for some of the Flowers defenders on BBI. "It wasn't that bad. He didn't ruin the game." The only thing missing would be the fallback excuse that Ereck is a young kid.



And that he did a lot of weight lifting in the offseason so his effort and work ethic can't be bad.



So much so that BBI had offered up the excuse that his fitness was improved and it would translate to improved technique/performance. Yet, when I rewatched the game this afternoon, you can see Ereck's jersey cut in the back to accommodate his fatness. I guess Jenny Craig didn't hold up her end of the bargain.


Another intelligent post. Do you actually look at the build of ALL NFL linemen. None are cut (except DEs) and all carry somewhat of a gut. It is called mass. The heavier they are within the capability of their body type, the harder it is to move them and all things being equal, come the 4th quarter, that mass tends to exhaust the opposing player. Worst build on the team is Snacks.
RE: RE: RE: I liked O'Hara,  
HomerJones45 : 10/4/2017 6:33 pm : link
In comment 13631027 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13630993 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


In comment 13630980 section125 said:


Quote:


but he got shoved around worse than Richburg, FWIW. I remember him getting abused on BBI back in his day...

Blaming the messenger



WTF does that mean? Are you a middle schooler? He's out there bad mouthing people of the same thing he was accused of 10 years ago. Pretty simple, no?
Does not make anything he said untrue. You didn't like what he said so you attacked the messenger, idiot.
Not sure why people are attacking Ohara...  
EricJ : 10/4/2017 7:06 pm : link
the guy was head and shoulders better than Flowers and he was a pro bowler. Every OL has bad games and if Ohara had a poor last season then maybe that is why he retired. The guy knows what he is talking about. He is basically saying what we are seeing for ourselves and yet some people are lashing back at him.

this place always amazes me
O'Hara's not wrong @ all  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/4/2017 7:30 pm : link
.
Ohara's right, and he's wrong...  
Dan in the Springs : 10/4/2017 7:32 pm : link
his point that the OL sucks is kind of obvious to all. The suggestion that they just keep them on the field working at it is way off and unrealistic.

I'm not at the practices, but I was reading a few weeks back about how every minute the coaches are on the field with the players is logged. It is limited, and there's no way to get around that.

The loophole in the system is that there is no limit to how much time players can spend on individual work. With today's technology coaches could make recordings of all the individual work they want players to do. There are even virtual reality systems in place for players to work individually on.

The OL is where things really stand out because the result is synergistic - individual improvement does not equal unit performance. This is why I keep saying ALL practice time for the OL should be dedicated to group work only. No footwork drills. No hand technique work. Only together work. Spacing, timing, communicating, these are the things they should work on from the moment practice begins to the time the whistle indicates that precious practice time is over.

Players who need individual work should be required to fix that on their own time, just like they are required to work on their own fitness levels on their own time.

Show up ready to work; fit, and fundamentally sound in your own technique. No time, patience, or tolerance for guys who need to fix individual problems.
I have a feeling that the entire  
Simms11 : 10/4/2017 8:52 pm : link
Offensive staff will be on the hot seat after this year.

The other thing that I notice with the Oline is it’s shear lack of physicality. We never seem to be capable of imposing our will and it shows in the running game.
O'Hara didn't get "shoved around"  
WillVAB : 10/4/2017 9:18 pm : link
He struggled some vs legit 3-4 NT's and in short yardage situations. Never saw him get manhandled in pass pro like Richberg.
RE: Welcome to the age of millenials Shaun  
Boy Cord : 10/4/2017 10:36 pm : link
In comment 13630949 sinister_bee98 said:
Quote:
Its all great hair and bluster with no substance behind it & no work ethic. Its crazy how bad Flowers is at run blocking. Never wouldve expected that. He plays like Jay Cutler at OT - looks like he just doesnt give a shit


JFC. Millenials? You have issues.
Reese  
Hilary : 10/5/2017 6:24 am : link
The real question I have is why the team would pick a player with poor fundamentals.I am sure the coaches at Miami tried to teach him proper foot and hand placement.If he did incorporate the right skills into his game in college why would the giants think he would improve at the next level.Same thing can be said of Apple.
...  
Dodge : 10/5/2017 8:03 am : link
Anyone blaming millennials for anything are just old boomers who got handed everything as a kid and are trying to pretend to be as successful as the generation before them.

Boomers are the worst generation in the last century. Too young still to die off, to old to understand technology, too stubborn to retire.
Mike Solari  
jacob12 : 10/5/2017 9:01 am : link
Mike is one of the best OL coaches in the NFL.Every OL he coached has improved,except for the Giants.He is supposed to be a superb teacher.

The Giants OL has regressed.
RE: Reese  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 9:08 am : link
In comment 13631272 Hilary said:
Quote:
The real question I have is why the team would pick a player with poor fundamentals.I am sure the coaches at Miami tried to teach him proper foot and hand placement.If he did incorporate the right skills into his game in college why would the giants think he would improve at the next level.Same thing can be said of Apple.


They were wrong, but the thinking was he was a young player who would benefit from NFL coaching and use his physical talents to become a good tackle. Initially, the plan was supposed to be for him to play RT, but with Beatty getting hurt that pushed him right in line for LT, which probably just exacerbated the issue.
Hilarious....  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:12 am : link
Sh-tting on O'hara because you don't like his take? Saying he was as poor as our current guys?

Some of you just exposed yourself as completely clueless.
None of the guys on the current line could carry O'hara's jock.  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:12 am : link
and that's a stone cold FACT.
Why is it considered shitting on O'Hara to say he wasn't  
jcn56 : 10/5/2017 9:14 am : link
much better than Richburg, or that he was vulnerable to the same bull rush that Richburg is. Richburg's not terrible out there, he's just not playing up to the potential he showed in his sophomore season.

O'Hara was a good C, not a great one.
RE: Not sure why people are attacking Ohara...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/5/2017 9:15 am : link
In comment 13631051 EricJ said:
Quote:
the guy was head and shoulders better than Flowers and he was a pro bowler. Every OL has bad games and if Ohara had a poor last season then maybe that is why he retired. The guy knows what he is talking about. He is basically saying what we are seeing for ourselves and yet some people are lashing back at him.

this place always amazes me


Funny thing about O'Hara, which seems to be getting overlooked here, is that he wasn't very good before getting to the Giants. He was several years into his career and the team that found him as a UDFA did not care to have him back. The Browns. He wasn't good enough to stick with the Browns.
Just stop.  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:17 am : link
From 2004 to 2010 O'hara was a team captain, a three time Pro Bowler, and a 2nd team All Pro.

There is no comparison right now.
Oh, and a Superbowl Champion...  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:17 am : link
.
He was also Giants Man of the Year one year....  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:20 am : link
and on the Leadership Council.

Saying he's not much better than Richburg is a slap in the face to a great Giant.
And finally,  
Britt in VA : 10/5/2017 9:22 am : link
he was the starting Center on the offensive line that gave Tiki Barber 2 MVP Caliber seasons, and was the starting center for arguably the best offensive line in Giants history in 2008 when we had 2 1000 yard rushers.

The more I think about it, the more absurd the comparison gets.
So because a team with an awful track record for talent  
jlukes : 10/5/2017 9:25 am : link
let him go, that diminishes just how good Shaun OHara was for us?

Awesome logic
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