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Is there any realistic hope for this season ?

Spider56 : 10/5/2017 12:10 pm
I'm still numb to think the season could be over by Oct 1. With Denver on the road next week and Oakland / KC / LAR still ahead, are there any optimists that think we can realistically get to the playoffs ?

Thank god for college football.
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No.  
fivehead : 10/5/2017 12:53 pm : link
This season is shot. The only thing to look forward to is a good draft slot.
Its a question of can we win the division  
Dinger : 10/5/2017 12:56 pm : link
It'll be tough to get a wildcard with 8 and 8 but divisions have been won with losing records so.....

The Eagles are in front but i don't seem them as a team with so much talent or well coached that they will break away from the pack. The Cowboys, much like us, seem to have come back down to earth after last year. The Redskins, as always, run hot and cold from week to week. You have to hope the other teams are no better than mediocre and have a couple of losing streaks all while we have to rattle off a few wins in a row. I don't think it is such a long shot but you have to wonder that even IF they win the division and make the playoffs are the Giants talented and well coached enough to make a Coughlin type run. I don't think so and at this point I think having a respectable record this year could be detrimental to the team in the long run. Meaning, there would be no change in GM, talent evaluation or other front office areas of need and we could even see the same poor effort poured into perennially bad positions, i.e. Offensive line, LB , RB. So not sure how to root for the team at this point.
I blame the players for the culture  
Go Terps : 10/5/2017 1:04 pm : link
I think there are players in that room who think they're great despite never having been a part of any winning teams in their careers. The receivers go on a boat trip before the playoffs. Beckham and Vernon (neither of whom have been on a team that's done anything) don't come to OTAs. JPP won't talk to the media because he's playing like shit.

These guys are the leaders on the team. They're the ones the young guys see getting paid or getting tons of media attention...they take their cue from them. Eli is the old man in the room...they're not going to relate to him.

The culture does suck, and I think it's because we've hitched our wagon to the wrong kinds of horses. This team is close to completely unraveling. Beckham's comments about the play designs are a sign.
depends on what you mean.....  
BillKo : 10/5/2017 1:09 pm : link
..playoffs? Most likely not.

Young players developing and getting better, serving as a spring board for 2018....definitely. And that's what I am looking for.

Other than Eli - who still looks to be the same player - a lot of this team has youth on its side.

Now youth can be deceiving in football because of 1) the salary cap 2) the injury factor.


RE: I blame the players for the culture  
The_Boss : 10/5/2017 1:10 pm : link
In comment 13631647 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I think there are players in that room who think they're great despite never having been a part of any winning teams in their careers. The receivers go on a boat trip before the playoffs. Beckham and Vernon (neither of whom have been on a team that's done anything) don't come to OTAs. JPP won't talk to the media because he's playing like shit.

These guys are the leaders on the team. They're the ones the young guys see getting paid or getting tons of media attention...they take their cue from them. Eli is the old man in the room...they're not going to relate to him.

The culture does suck, and I think it's because we've hitched our wagon to the wrong kinds of horses. This team is close to completely unraveling. Beckham's comments about the play designs are a sign.


It's been so bad the fucking kicker refused to talk after the Tampa game. The god damn rookie K.
both for Fans and Players  
idiotsavant : 10/5/2017 1:11 pm : link
I never saw it as 'make a run or its not worth it'.

On the contrary:

Legions of us, possibly a plurality of us, started out when the team SUCKED. The heroics took place -during- loosing seasons, or -while- loosing games, when the wheels were coming off,

Carsen, Taylor, those guys, made huge plays at those times.

For any current fans OR players who mail it in due to 'its not on this year' ...that shows lack of character.
RE: my take  
BillKo : 10/5/2017 1:12 pm : link
In comment 13631623 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:
this is the key game
we lose this and go 0-5 then it is over

but everyone forgets last year that we were 2-4 after 6 weeks
our defense didn't turn on until week 8 against the Rams

If our defense can click and get moving we could definitely win 4 in a row



Think we were 2-3, with 3 straight loses...but your point about the defense hitting its stride and taking over games is a good one.

Giants can get back into the playoff race....it's extremely hard to be out of the NFL playoff hunt in October, it really is.

Getting in after 0-4, though, is probably not doable.
4 losses does not end the season  
joeinpa : 10/5/2017 1:12 pm : link
what makes it discouraging is the caliber of play that got them there.

Are they going to run the ball better, stop the run, rush the passer better, play better special teams...etc...


But to say there is no hope is just another case of a fan not being able to get past what they seen most recently.

They have no vision of it getting better, even though this has happened time and again in sports.

Yes there is hope, win Sunday, and see if that gets some positive momentum and better play going.
RE: depends on what you mean.....  
The_Boss : 10/5/2017 1:12 pm : link
In comment 13631653 BillKo said:
Quote:
..playoffs? Most likely not.

Young players developing and getting better, serving as a spring board for 2018....definitely. And that's what I am looking for.

Other than Eli - who still looks to be the same player - a lot of this team has youth on its side.

Now youth can be deceiving in football because of 1) the salary cap 2) the injury factor.



This is the 6th youngest roster in football. If the culture sucks now it's likely going to persist for a while.
not a chance  
well...bye TC : 10/5/2017 1:13 pm : link
glaring holes, an aging QB, a knucklehead superstar WR and a clueless HC. Cmon man...
The Giants led by McAdoo  
B in ALB : 10/5/2017 1:14 pm : link
Are dangerously close to the inmates running the asylum situation. That's the beginning of the end.
RE: The Giants led by McAdoo  
Go Terps : 10/5/2017 1:19 pm : link
In comment 13631666 B in ALB said:
Quote:
Are dangerously close to the inmates running the asylum situation. That's the beginning of the end.


Maybe that's true, but isn't it also incumbent on the players to act like pros? If a player needs to be babysat, why would we want that player?

I want the head coach to be working on game plans, not reminding the players not to get celebration penalties.
RE: RE: depends on what you mean.....  
BillKo : 10/5/2017 1:19 pm : link
In comment 13631664 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 13631653 BillKo said:


Quote:


..playoffs? Most likely not.

Young players developing and getting better, serving as a spring board for 2018....definitely. And that's what I am looking for.

Other than Eli - who still looks to be the same player - a lot of this team has youth on its side.

Now youth can be deceiving in football because of 1) the salary cap 2) the injury factor.





This is the 6th youngest roster in football. If the culture sucks now it's likely going to persist for a while.


But it was excellent last year, so how do you account for that?

I think saying the Giants, with this cast, will have a negative cast going forward is just being very pessimistic.

We seem teams turn it around from year to year in the NFL, so I'm not buying it.

I'd rather have a young base than an older base.......
RE: RE: It's a culture problem....  
HomerJones45 : 10/5/2017 1:23 pm : link
In comment 13631604 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
In comment 13631586 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


We have a poor culture, IMO, in the lockerroom.

One of the things I often think gets overlooked about Tom Coughlin, he came in and completely changed the culture of the team, after it having nearly a decade of poor culture.



Eh...people seem to forget all of the games, almost too numerous to count during TC's tenure, where the doors were completely blown off and they looked totally unprepared to play.
Was that before or after the 200 million dollar spend for free agents during his tenure? Oh, that's right . . .
Ask me at about 4pm on Sunday  
SGMen : 10/5/2017 1:26 pm : link
If we lose a tough, close game to the Chargers at home not only is the season lost but we have to think complete turnover of front office and coaching staff with a new GM coming in. 0 - 5 would be devastating and I think it would mean Mac has lost the team possibly.

However, if we win 3 straight going into the bye week you have to hope for a post bye continuance of solid play. 9 - 7 and this team returns with the front office and coaching staff in tact.

I'll be honest, I'm torn whether I want 3 - 4 or 0 -7 simply because I'm done with Reese and his drafts. Last year our schedule wasn't too hard and we flourished and won close games. This year specials and no pass rush plus avg OL play have cost us dearly with 2 close losses.

As a fan though, 3 - 4 please. 2 - 5 doesn't do anything for me.
.  
pjcas18 : 10/5/2017 1:28 pm : link
Hope? Let me tell you something, my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane. It's got no use in football. You'd better get used to that idea.
Not imposible  
UberAlias : 10/5/2017 1:29 pm : link
But not very likely at all. Is it out the question that the light could suddenly flick on for some of these guys, the momentum become contagious and suddenly they rip off a win streak and are right back in it?

Sure, its possible, but I see very little reason to EXPECT that.
SG.....  
BillKo : 10/5/2017 1:30 pm : link
3-4, I can't see beating Denver, esp there.

We could beat SD and Seattle.....I see 2-5 or 1-6.
RE: SG.....  
SGMen : 10/5/2017 1:34 pm : link
In comment 13631694 BillKo said:
Quote:
3-4, I can't see beating Denver, esp there.

We could beat SD and Seattle.....I see 2-5 or 1-6.
Hypothetically, if we beat the Chargers we MUST somehow beat Denver to gain momentum. Is it likely in Denver? Nope, not with this OL and that defense but in football, ya just never know.

I think we are 2 - 5 and out of it by the bye week.
No hope, too many problems.  
Keith : 10/5/2017 1:37 pm : link
It starts with the FO who mis-evaluated our OL and failed to have a plan B. The OL is the cog that is bringing this whole teams performance down.

Next is the coaching staff. Too many things that just don't make sense. Bad decisions, weird commentary, bad in game decisions, predictable play calling, and so on.

Next is the players. Too many guys that are expected to be top performers and leaders and nobody is pulling their weight. Not one guy. Not Eli. Not JPP. Not OBJ. Not Vernon or snacks or Collins or Marshall or anyone else.

The lockerroom chemistry coming in was great. A lot of guys that seemed to get along well and seemed to pull for each other. It seems fractured now, but 0-4 will do that to any lockerroom. The problem starts at the top.
Actually yes.  
Red Dog : 10/5/2017 1:43 pm : link
If the the team totally tanks and loses 12 to 15 games, which I think is possible, then it should usher in a new era.

It would go something like this - ownership cleans out the front office and the coaching staff, and starts over.

They'd have a very high draft position, and very probably some comp picks, too, so a new GM and draft staff needs to be in place to make better use of them.

That's the only realistic hope left or this season because they aren't making the playoffs with this shit show.
Eagles have to stumble  
KWALL2 : 10/5/2017 1:56 pm : link
And it could happen. They didn't look that good vs SD.

We need a big help from the Cards this week. If we get it they have CAR the next week. They could be 3-3.

Cowboys could be 3-3. They have Packets and 49ers next.

WAS - bye and 49ers. That's 3-2.

Can we get to 2-4?

If NYG can we have a shot over the last 10 to make up the 1.5 games on WAS.

This was I'm hoping for.
Culture  
KWALL2 : 10/5/2017 2:01 pm : link
I don't buy that BS at all.

The culture last year was ok but not this season? That's nonsense.

A team losses and guys complain and chirp. That's all we have here. That and a shitty OL. But that ain't culture.
And one more thing  
KWALL2 : 10/5/2017 2:04 pm : link
Guys not talking to the media doesn't mean shit. It doesn't mean they lack anything. It doesn't mean a damn thing.

I don't care about the kicker, DE or anybody talking to the media. They don't want to? What's the problem? They pay their fine and move on. It means nothing.
Teams change year to year  
JonC : 10/5/2017 2:05 pm : link
this team is a sinking ship.
Hope?  
arniefez : 10/5/2017 2:07 pm : link
I hope they either win 10 games or lose 14 anything in the middle is going to make things worse in the next few years.
if they lose sunday  
msh : 10/5/2017 2:20 pm : link
then it would be time to bench eli and see what they have is davis webb play for a good draft pick and OL must be 2 of the first 3 picks along with a WR that can actually catch the ball as marshall has done nothing but drop passes so far he was a stopgap anyway they need a big physical outside WR to complement beckham

and they need to extend pugh now they cannot risk losing the only ray of hope on the OL to FA,they need to build the rest of OL around him
One Can Hope for Enough Information  
clatterbuck : 10/5/2017 2:30 pm : link
on which management can decide whether McAdoo is a young coach going through a tough season of growing pains or is just not up to the challenge of being an NFL head coach. My fear is wasting this season and another -- two precious years for top production from Eli --before an answer is apparent to management or management is too conservative to make a move.
We need to win the next 3 before the bye...  
Thatís Gold, Jerry : 10/5/2017 2:36 pm : link
or we are done. Now, I have heard some say that 8-8 might win the NFC East this year but you look at Philly and the Foreskins right now and they are much better than we are.

If we don't win Sunday, this is going to get real ugly. Nasty ugly...
there's always hope  
Ron Johnson : 10/5/2017 2:45 pm : link
start Sunday
They're not benching Eli  
JonC : 10/5/2017 2:46 pm : link
and they're not panicking into an extension for Pugh, five games into a season.
RE: .  
Mark C : 10/5/2017 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13631690 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Hope? Let me tell you something, my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane. It's got no use in football. You'd better get used to that idea.


You mean like Red did?
_________________  
I am Ninja : 10/5/2017 3:04 pm : link
With this schedule, they can turn it around completely and still lose a number games they play well in. Throw in a game or 2 like the first four, because you just dont go from shit to immune to being shit. Its unrealistic.
Jon  
KWALL2 : 10/5/2017 3:14 pm : link
What changed from last year?

Its the same coaches and same base. The new players didn't bring in some culture.

Any team that is 0-4 is a sinking ship.

But it can be turned around and I don't think it has anything to do with culture when the same core when 11-5 the year before.

The problem is catching, tackling, and especially blocking. Not culture.

The blocking gave us NO CHANCE in games 1 and 2. And it didn't help in game 3 or 4. That's the issue here. It was better in game 3 and 4 but not good enough.

The rookie RB looked good. They better start him from here.

Defense has to play better.

For me, none of that is about culture, not talking to press, or any of this other chatter.
We'd heve to sweep the Conference and Division (8 wins)....  
MOOPS : 10/5/2017 3:37 pm : link
and then beat two of the Chargers, Chiefs, Raiders and Broncos to make it to 10 wins and the playoffs.
I really can't envision that happening.
Very tough schedule, a bunch of long distance road trips, Thanksgiving night on the road, Christmas Eve on the road.
Kev  
JonC : 10/5/2017 3:38 pm : link
Chances are good it's all intertwined. B in ALB laid out the basics, and we've seen it before with football teams in the past, it's palpable and you can sense it, especially if you've lived through in the past.

There's an undercurrent with this group and it's negative.
You usually don't see the true character of a person  
Keith : 10/5/2017 3:45 pm : link
or player until adversity hits and we really didn't have much adversity last year other than the GB game(and we imploded then). I'm with JonC on this one, the character on this team is a problem and we are seeing what happens when adversity hits(they fold).
People bought into  
old man : 10/5/2017 4:49 pm : link
the hype of 11-5 from last year while somewhat very hopeful that the additions could repeat that this year.
The improved opposition, the now very exposed OL, the poor passes/tackling/playcalling and insane/egomaniacal decisions to leave FG attempts on the table for 4th and 1/TD attempts from an unproductive O by our HC brings us to today.
We are having a failing season, the opponents will be getting tougher, and who knows what is happening in the locker room that will be fodder for the writers in the biggest media market in America to feast on.
I don't see this group playing any better against better teams the rest of the way sufficiently enough to beat those teams.
I do wonder how much our quiet Eli vents to Abby every game night. Years of poor FO decisions have to be grating on him. Poor guy.
Well,  
Doomster : 10/5/2017 4:54 pm : link
Both of our DE's are hurt, and if Spags can't dial up some exotic blitz schemes and apply pressure to Rivers, he is going to pick this defense apart...

This is a must game.....just like the Buc game was....just like the Eagle game was....

They have to win this game....but even if they do, I think they lose the next two, and might be 1-6 at the bye....

This is a crazy season....teams are faltering all over the place.......so it's not out of the question that this team can right the ship....but it has to start with it's first win, and then who knows?

what JonC said  
micky : 10/5/2017 6:11 pm : link
""Abandon ship!"
Personally, for my own sanity,  
DaveW2 : 10/5/2017 7:14 pm : link
And because it's really the only rational way to look at any sport in general. There can only be one ultimate winner per season (Super Bowl, World Series, etc.). I don't subscribe to the notion that everyone else are losers. I enjoy watching my favorite play a good game, or run a good race. I try to take it one at a time (just like they tell the players). If they come out and put forth a valiant effort to compete, I'll enjoy watching. Granted, I will enjoy it more if they win, but I'm a Giants fan regardless if they are struggling at the moment.

One game at a time guys.
i hope  
RasputinPrime : 10/5/2017 7:18 pm : link
no one worth keeping next year gets injured.
...  
yankees78 : 10/5/2017 7:22 pm : link
No
No....  
Fishmanjim57 : 10/5/2017 9:24 pm : link
there isn't!
RE: No.  
Fishmanjim57 : 10/5/2017 9:26 pm : link
In comment 13631637 fivehead said:
Quote:
This season is shot. The only thing to look forward to is a good draft slot.


Even if they manage to secure a good draft spot, I don't want Reese to make the choice. He should be fired!
No.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/5/2017 9:28 pm : link
I've already waved the white flag. What a garbage team, garbage coach, and garbage front office.
It could be a culture issue  
santacruzom : 10/5/2017 11:45 pm : link
Just because one didn't manifest itself during an 11-5 season doesn't eliminate it as a possibility. They could just be front runners.
realistic? not really, but if you want to squint really hard  
PerpetualNervousness : 10/6/2017 11:24 am : link
the argument would be there's mediocrity across the board in the league this season. nobody's really that good. and the giants aren't as bad as they've seemed. they've opened with 3 of 4 games on the road, and for their first two they were missing their best player, and they've gotten a bunch of bad breaks. you have to believe they can still get on a roll somehow.

what's a scenario? they need to beat SD this week. then assume they've got to figure a way to win 5 of 6 of the remaining home games, and that includes beating all their division rivals in that end of the season stretch. it means they'd need to beat 2 out of 3 of the seahawks, rams and chiefs at home. and then they've got to 3 and 2 on the road against the broncos, niners, raiders, skins and cardinals. and one of the wins has to be either the hawks at home or broncos on the road, since you're also cooked at 1-6. if you somehow do all that, that would get you to 9-7 and you'd need to hope for tiebreaker magic.
RE: RE: .  
pjcas18 : 10/6/2017 11:26 am : link
In comment 13631848 Mark C said:
Quote:
In comment 13631690 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Hope? Let me tell you something, my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane. It's got no use in football. You'd better get used to that idea.



You mean like Red did?


Exactly.
In a word  
Carson53 : 10/6/2017 2:09 pm : link
NO!
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