This loss is squarely on Girardi. No one else. They had a chance to get a leg up in a playoff series against the best team in baseball and the manager cost them for no good reason and likely cost them their season. As season where they could have had a shot at a title.
If I had to guess, I'd say because Chad Green has been the best relief pitcher in all of baseball the second half of the season and really wasn't being used inconsistently with how he's been used all year. Now Green fucking sucked, but let's stop acting like Joe pulled CC out to bring in Sergio Mitre.
Chad Green had 1 bad game since the middle of August prior Â
brings up a good point about CC. He retired the 3rd, 4th and 5th innings 1,2,3. Then lets up a hit in the 6th, gets the next batter and is pulled. He was at 70 pitches.
If I had to guess, I'd say because Chad Green has been the best relief pitcher in all of baseball the second half of the season and really wasn't being used inconsistently with how he's been used all year. Now Green fucking sucked, but let's stop acting like Joe pulled CC out to bring in Sergio Mitre.
I am fine with the CC move. The non-challenge is inexcusable and leaving Betances in was also a horrendous move. We all know Betances cannot pitch with runners on and the leadoff guy got on. Everybody and their mother knew the Indian was stealing. You just allowed a guy to get into scoring position with no outs. Unreal.
Liked him as a player, seems like a good guy and a straight shooter. Think he's had a nice run here. This was pretty clearly his most questionable season though, in terms of strategy and decision-making. Mow, on top of that, he pretty much singlehandedly cost them a playoff game that they just HAD to win. It's inexcusable.
Every manager has a sell-by date. JOE HAS HIT HIS.
If people want to kill Joe for the non-challenge, have at it. Â
His reason is completely moronic. But acting like bringing in Chad Green was dumb considering how great he's been is a bit much. You would think he brought in Chasen Shreve. The guy just shit the bed... granted he should've been out of the inning with no damage.
He's not been able to give them many innings all year long and you have Green, who had a '96 Mariano kind of year. He just didn't get it done. Going to Green was still the right call though.
8-3 lead, Encarnacion hurt, beat up their ace, all the momentum in the world against the best team in the AL and Girardi fucks the entire thing up. I still can't believe it.
If George were running things, you'd know he was a goner. Â
I had just commented that CC looked strong. He was mowing them down with an 8-3 lead. He puts one guy on in the 6th and Joe takes the ball away. CC is a seasoned playoff pitcher and he had more in the tank. I was frustrated then and now. If Green had been his normal self, it would have been forgotten. I think CC had 3 to 5 more outs in him. Sucks.
8-3 lead, Encarnacion hurt, beat up their ace, all the momentum in the world against the best team in the AL and Girardi fucks the entire thing up. I still can't believe it.
That about sums it up.
RE: RE: RE: Yan fucking Gomes ends the game with an RBI single. Â
One of the worst losses in Yankees postseason history.
We've been lucky enough to witness far far far more great moments than just about any fan base. I've been watching since '76. That is by far the shittiest loss I've ever seen.
Game 4 of 2004 ALCS has to take the cake, but this is right up there.
Honestly I haven't been this emotional about a baseball game since then.. I'm downright angry right now.. and to see the Indians celebrating like they won the world series makes me want to puke.. I turned the tv back in after 15 minutes and there is Jay Bruce with Gatorade dropping down his hat still on the field being interviewed... FUCK!!!!
CC hasn't thrown a bunch of pitches for most of the year, they had their bullpen ready to go in a must win situation.
Zero issue bringing Greene in.
I would not have brought Robertson out for what I consider is his 3rd inning of work. I know outs wise it wasn't, but the bigger thing to me is how many times he had to pitch, sit down, pitch, sit down, pitch. He did it the other night for the first time all year and threw 50+ pitches, I don't push that envelope again tonight.
But that's not that huge of a deal, I can see both sides of it at least.
Yep, and none of the fucking morons in the interview room in Cleveland went after him even 10% as much as they should have.
Who cares we all know he fucked up. What should they do start a fight?
Yes, they all should have had the exact response that Curry and Flaherty did in the studio.
They let him off the hook in the interview. No one challenged him when he basically said he enforced a rule on himself that the umpires werent even enforcing.
Every question in that PC should have been about that 6th inning, from taking CC out to the rest. Each explanation should have been followed up by a question pressing him more. The media in new york knows how to go on the attack against coaches even when they have no business doing so, yet they all sat there on their asses tonight when they needed to attack him
Mook Joe is a stand up guy who would never throw a coach or player under the bus to the media. I could be 100% wrong here, but I bet his replay guy told him it wasn't clear enough to challenge and he came up with that lame BS excuse to keep from giving the real reason. Maybe I'm wrong but who knows, either way fighting him in the interview room accomplishes nothing.
I understand why he did it, but I recognize it was debatable. My only argument with people here was don't act like it was a no-brainer.
- Robby mowed through 4 guys on only 17 pitches
- If we could trust Betances, this game would've ended a long time ago in victory
- I don't think he really wanted to have to get 6 outs with Chappy
They had an issue earlier in the year with not getting the slow mo replay in time to challenge something. They apparently had it again tonight. He didn't challenge that time either as a result.
The media ALWAYS hammers these coaches over stuff like this. Hell they go after coaches when they have no reason to and they just want to start shit. Why all of them in that room chose to give him a pass tonight when hammering him was warranted is beyond me.
but hopefully shit like what happened tonight will convince them to stop bunting. If they never bunted ever again they would be much better off. For every 1 time it's the right play, there's 5 where it's the wrong play, so just stop doing it all together. Bad things regularly happen when they try to bunt or bunt
Did Joe say why he didn't bring in Chapman to pitch to Bruce Â
but hopefully shit like what happened tonight will convince them to stop bunting. If they never bunted ever again they would be much better off. For every 1 time it's the right play, there's 5 where it's the wrong play, so just stop doing it all together. Bad things regularly happen when they try to bunt or bunt
Gardner looked horrific at the plate tonight. If there was any guy who needed to bunt it was him. Problem is, when you're supposed to bunt, you can't be pulling the bat back unless the pitch is completely unhittable. No matter WTF happens, Toe can't get picked off by a catcher in that spot at second base. Can't fucking happen.
Just a lot of dumb shit that leads to losing a playoff game in that situation.
on this group. 3 wins against this team will be difficult. This young Yankee group comes alive at home and I could see some of the dead bats come alive. Win on Sunday and the Indians will start feeling the rectums tighten a little.
when the infamous non-replay thing happened. Not that I need to tell you all this but Sterling and Susan need to be fired yesterday. They had no clue what the fuck happened. They both looked at multiple replays and both agreed that the ball hit nothing. Not even a remote clue about the foul tip. Then on the Grand Slam for a few seconds Sterling had no clue what the fuck happened. As usual I knew it was gone by the crowd reaction. Never mentioned once that it hit the foul pole.
RE: FYI I was on my way home from my son's little league game Â
when the infamous non-replay thing happened. Not that I need to tell you all this but Sterling and Susan need to be fired yesterday. They had no clue what the fuck happened. They both looked at multiple replays and both agreed that the ball hit nothing. Not even a remote clue about the foul tip. Then on the Grand Slam for a few seconds Sterling had no clue what the fuck happened. As usual I knew it was gone by the crowd reaction. Never mentioned once that it hit the foul pole.
its really a shame that the Yankees are unlistenable radio. We deserve better, much better.
Scored early and often.. CC pitched well.. but errors early on and bad coaching cost us this game.. plus once we got kicked in the mouth we didn't know how to regroup and bounce back. Encouraging but signs of a young team. Playing a team like this you can't afford mistakes they will make you pay. I hope we learn from this and add some solid veteran leadership this off-season.
RE: FYI I was on my way home from my son's little league game Â
when the infamous non-replay thing happened. Not that I need to tell you all this but Sterling and Susan need to be fired yesterday. They had no clue what the fuck happened. They both looked at multiple replays and both agreed that the ball hit nothing. Not even a remote clue about the foul tip. Then on the Grand Slam for a few seconds Sterling had no clue what the fuck happened. As usual I knew it was gone by the crowd reaction. Never mentioned once that it hit the foul pole.
Centerstage starring John Sterling is on YES right now. Tune in! It's exhilarating!
Scored early and often.. CC pitched well.. but errors early on and bad coaching cost us this game.. plus once we got kicked in the mouth we didn't know how to regroup and bounce back. Encouraging but signs of a young team. Playing a team like this you can't afford mistakes they will make you pay. I hope we learn from this and add some solid veteran leadership this off-season.
lets get rid of Chase Headley while we're at it. Just suck it up and eat the last year of that blundered contract. How many weak ground balls can one man hit in a single season? Fuckin A with Headley, I'm sick of him. Todd Frazier can hit the road too, I am not impressed with any aspect of his game. In a league where everyone and their mother are hitting homeruns I'm sure we could find someone else on the cheap to run into a few homers and hit below the Mendoza line. Ellsbury, ah forget it.
Scored early and often.. CC pitched well.. but errors early on and bad coaching cost us this game.. plus once we got kicked in the mouth we didn't know how to regroup and bounce back. Encouraging but signs of a young team. Playing a team like this you can't afford mistakes they will make you pay. I hope we learn from this and add some solid veteran leadership this off-season.
lets get rid of Chase Headley while we're at it. Just suck it up and eat the last year of that blundered contract. How many weak ground balls can one man hit in a single season? Fuckin A with Headley, I'm sick of him. Todd Frazier can hit the road too, I am not impressed with any aspect of his game. In a league where everyone and their mother are hitting homeruns I'm sure we could find someone else on the cheap to run into a few homers and hit below the Mendoza line. Ellsbury, ah forget it.
Agreed. I want Headley off the team.
Torres at 3B next year. Let Torreyes or a vet play april and may if Torres needs a little extra seasoning from the injury
Ship Castro's ass the hell out of town. Tired of seeing him sleepwalking in the field. Get another year out of Headley or some other stopgap 3B and then sign Machado.
Let's not let Girardi's monumental blunder obscure the fact that the game was one of the sorriest attempts at umping a game I've ever seen. That clown should be hitting the bricks just like Girardi.
was one of the biggest injuries we suffered this year - he was coming for somebody's job and would've helped us.
Machado/Didi/Gleyber/Bird/Sanchez around the horn is what I've been dreaming of. Judge/Hicks/Gardy next year in the OF, with Clint and then Florial (later on) working their way in, too. We'll bludgeon teams. But those are off-season convos - hopefully we avoid them for a few more days.
Ship Castro's ass the hell out of town. Tired of seeing him sleepwalking in the field. Get another year out of Headley or some other stopgap 3B and then sign Machado.
Let's not let Girardi's monumental blunder obscure the fact that the game was one of the sorriest attempts at umping a game I've ever seen. That clown should be hitting the bricks just like Girardi.
I'm with this. Castro shipped for a decent starter would be great. Machado's glove and bat combo will be well appreciated having watched Frazier fuck up twice in the field today, and that's with him supposing to be our sure hander at 3rd.
We haven't had the production at third that we deserve since A-Rod.
Criminal. The “I didn’t want to disrupt the pitchers rhythm” line is utter shit.
Then he said he left Green in (who clearly didn’t have his good stuff) bc Lindor was 0-2 lifetime against Green. A sample size of 2 fucking ABs, so he leaves in a pitcher who just got ripped by Yan Gomes?!?!
I’ve groused about the “binders” derisive nickname many times, but it’s so fucking accurate and spot on after last nights debacle I hereby concede the debate now and forever.
RE: Just read some of Girardis post game comments Â
Criminal. The “I didn’t want to disrupt the pitchers rhythm” line is utter shit.
Then he said he left Green in (who clearly didn’t have his good stuff) bc Lindor was 0-2 lifetime against Green. A sample size of 2 fucking ABs, so he leaves in a pitcher who just got ripped by Yan Gomes?!?!
I’ve groused about the “binders” derisive nickname many times, but it’s so fucking accurate and spot on after last nights debacle I hereby concede the debate now and forever.
If they lose this series, do you think Joe just lost his job?
Beating Kluber to go even up in the series coming the the Stadium would have been huge.
RE: RE: Just read some of Girardis post game comments Â
Criminal. The “I didn’t want to disrupt the pitchers rhythm” line is utter shit.
Then he said he left Green in (who clearly didn’t have his good stuff) bc Lindor was 0-2 lifetime against Green. A sample size of 2 fucking ABs, so he leaves in a pitcher who just got ripped by Yan Gomes?!?!
I’ve groused about the “binders” derisive nickname many times, but it’s so fucking accurate and spot on after last nights debacle I hereby concede the debate now and forever.
If they lose this series, do you think Joe just lost his job?
Beating Kluber to go even up in the series coming the the Stadium would have been huge.
I concede I’m clearly still very wound up, like most of us...so my first reaction is how can he not lose his job?
I wonder how Cashman feels about it, or the rest of the Yanks brass. I suspect Cash is very frustrated, but I have no doubt Levine, Trost and the rest of that merry band of bean counters love Girardi, bc he never embarrasses them off the field and likely doesn’t complain much.
So the question may be...who’s calls is it really?
That was his reason for taking C.C. out. Not because he threw too many pitches. He was only at 76. Because that’s the way they’ve been doing it most of the year. He said that in his post game presser.
And I disagree with those who say C.C. didn’t give you much past that all year anyway. Joe used the 100 pitch barometer on C.C. when it came to taking him out this year. C.C. was in cruise control and the way he was pitching could have easily gone seven.
Joe got in the way this time. It’s his managerial style. He makes moves because that’s what managers do. Not because it’s necessary. I was shocked when took C.C. out. Even as he brought Chad Green in I thought well it’s Chad Green but at that point why? C.C. was in complete control and he had a five run lead with one out in the sixth against and an Indian team that couldn’t figure him out.
It wasn’t a one run lead and the Indians pushing the issue. Joe blew it. Then he compounds the problem but not listening to his catcher late in the game and doesn’t challange because his replay guy can’t give him an up or down signal. What did he have to lose. In this case after that performance he may have engineered his way out of New York.
was about the most stupid fucking reason that I've ever heard a coach or manager relay. Girardi, with his engineering degree from Northwestern , is beyond bright . But, Cmon! Games get interrupted all the time now. The umps would have changed that call in a minute .
He is formulaic to a fault . However, this time he made some moves outside the box. Pitching Robertson a second inning. I've always advocated that. Well, Alabamie fell behind Bruce , whose mind set was not to swing at a curveball, So he keep giving him curveballs . Sanchez switched at 2-0. Bruce knew exactly where he was going with the ball.
But Frazier gave Cleveland 2 runs early. You're playing in a stadium that has always played small, just like Camden. When batters hit the ball on the ground in MLB this season , the Out rate is 86 %. So CC got porked. First by Frazier, then Girardi.
8-3 with the world's best pull pen . 11 outs to go. Now they probably will get swept because the Indians left-handed bats will pepper the right-field seats against Tanaka.
Lastly it looks like the umpire Union has decided that the Indians are going to end the streak this season. The field has been tilted to their advantage . Tough combo to beat because the team is damn good.
I like Girardi but he lost his job tonight.
Damnit
It's time for him to go anyway.
If I had to guess, I'd say because Chad Green has been the best relief pitcher in all of baseball the second half of the season and really wasn't being used inconsistently with how he's been used all year. Now Green fucking sucked, but let's stop acting like Joe pulled CC out to bring in Sergio Mitre.
I have defended Girardi for years here. I think he's done a good job.
I just see this loss/series as one of those that a manager never recovers from. And I don't want to piss away another year before they realize that.
It was truly a Buck Showalter moment for Girardi
Quote:
why Joe took CC out
If I had to guess, I'd say because Chad Green has been the best relief pitcher in all of baseball the second half of the season and really wasn't being used inconsistently with how he's been used all year. Now Green fucking sucked, but let's stop acting like Joe pulled CC out to bring in Sergio Mitre.
I am fine with the CC move. The non-challenge is inexcusable and leaving Betances in was also a horrendous move. We all know Betances cannot pitch with runners on and the leadoff guy got on. Everybody and their mother knew the Indian was stealing. You just allowed a guy to get into scoring position with no outs. Unreal.
AROD?
Every manager has a sell-by date. JOE HAS HIT HIS.
What a clusterfuck.
That about sums it up.
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In comment 13634026 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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One of the worst losses in Yankees postseason history.
We've been lucky enough to witness far far far more great moments than just about any fan base. I've been watching since '76. That is by far the shittiest loss I've ever seen.
Game 4 of 2004 ALCS has to take the cake, but this is right up there.
Honestly I haven't been this emotional about a baseball game since then.. I'm downright angry right now.. and to see the Indians celebrating like they won the world series makes me want to puke.. I turned the tv back in after 15 minutes and there is Jay Bruce with Gatorade dropping down his hat still on the field being interviewed... FUCK!!!!
CC hasn't thrown a bunch of pitches for most of the year, they had their bullpen ready to go in a must win situation.
Zero issue bringing Greene in.
I would not have brought Robertson out for what I consider is his 3rd inning of work. I know outs wise it wasn't, but the bigger thing to me is how many times he had to pitch, sit down, pitch, sit down, pitch. He did it the other night for the first time all year and threw 50+ pitches, I don't push that envelope again tonight.
But that's not that huge of a deal, I can see both sides of it at least.
The non-challenge is a fireable offense.
Look, he's a good man, solid, etc. But he ain't the guy to lead the future.
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In comment 13634076 MookGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 13634071 I am Ninja said:
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Flaherty and Curry on attack.
Yep, and none of the fucking morons in the interview room in Cleveland went after him even 10% as much as they should have.
Who cares we all know he fucked up. What should they do start a fight?
Yes, they all should have had the exact response that Curry and Flaherty did in the studio.
They let him off the hook in the interview. No one challenged him when he basically said he enforced a rule on himself that the umpires werent even enforcing.
Every question in that PC should have been about that 6th inning, from taking CC out to the rest. Each explanation should have been followed up by a question pressing him more. The media in new york knows how to go on the attack against coaches even when they have no business doing so, yet they all sat there on their asses tonight when they needed to attack him
Mook Joe is a stand up guy who would never throw a coach or player under the bus to the media. I could be 100% wrong here, but I bet his replay guy told him it wasn't clear enough to challenge and he came up with that lame BS excuse to keep from giving the real reason. Maybe I'm wrong but who knows, either way fighting him in the interview room accomplishes nothing.
- Robby mowed through 4 guys on only 17 pitches
- If we could trust Betances, this game would've ended a long time ago in victory
- I don't think he really wanted to have to get 6 outs with Chappy
They had an issue earlier in the year with not getting the slow mo replay in time to challenge something. They apparently had it again tonight. He didn't challenge that time either as a result.
The media ALWAYS hammers these coaches over stuff like this. Hell they go after coaches when they have no reason to and they just want to start shit. Why all of them in that room chose to give him a pass tonight when hammering him was warranted is beyond me.
Gardner looked horrific at the plate tonight. If there was any guy who needed to bunt it was him. Problem is, when you're supposed to bunt, you can't be pulling the bat back unless the pitch is completely unhittable. No matter WTF happens, Toe can't get picked off by a catcher in that spot at second base. Can't fucking happen.
Just a lot of dumb shit that leads to losing a playoff game in that situation.
Centerstage starring John Sterling is on YES right now. Tune in! It's exhilarating!
Quote:
Scored early and often.. CC pitched well.. but errors early on and bad coaching cost us this game.. plus once we got kicked in the mouth we didn't know how to regroup and bounce back. Encouraging but signs of a young team. Playing a team like this you can't afford mistakes they will make you pay. I hope we learn from this and add some solid veteran leadership this off-season.
lets get rid of Chase Headley while we're at it. Just suck it up and eat the last year of that blundered contract. How many weak ground balls can one man hit in a single season? Fuckin A with Headley, I'm sick of him. Todd Frazier can hit the road too, I am not impressed with any aspect of his game. In a league where everyone and their mother are hitting homeruns I'm sure we could find someone else on the cheap to run into a few homers and hit below the Mendoza line. Ellsbury, ah forget it.
Agreed. I want Headley off the team.
Torres at 3B next year. Let Torreyes or a vet play april and may if Torres needs a little extra seasoning from the injury
Let's not let Girardi's monumental blunder obscure the fact that the game was one of the sorriest attempts at umping a game I've ever seen. That clown should be hitting the bricks just like Girardi.
Machado/Didi/Gleyber/Bird/Sanchez around the horn is what I've been dreaming of. Judge/Hicks/Gardy next year in the OF, with Clint and then Florial (later on) working their way in, too. We'll bludgeon teams. But those are off-season convos - hopefully we avoid them for a few more days.
Let's not let Girardi's monumental blunder obscure the fact that the game was one of the sorriest attempts at umping a game I've ever seen. That clown should be hitting the bricks just like Girardi.
I'm with this. Castro shipped for a decent starter would be great. Machado's glove and bat combo will be well appreciated having watched Frazier fuck up twice in the field today, and that's with him supposing to be our sure hander at 3rd.
We haven't had the production at third that we deserve since A-Rod.
and fuck the GD Indians.
Then he said he left Green in (who clearly didn’t have his good stuff) bc Lindor was 0-2 lifetime against Green. A sample size of 2 fucking ABs, so he leaves in a pitcher who just got ripped by Yan Gomes?!?!
I’ve groused about the “binders” derisive nickname many times, but it’s so fucking accurate and spot on after last nights debacle I hereby concede the debate now and forever.
Then he said he left Green in (who clearly didn’t have his good stuff) bc Lindor was 0-2 lifetime against Green. A sample size of 2 fucking ABs, so he leaves in a pitcher who just got ripped by Yan Gomes?!?!
I’ve groused about the “binders” derisive nickname many times, but it’s so fucking accurate and spot on after last nights debacle I hereby concede the debate now and forever.
If they lose this series, do you think Joe just lost his job?
Beating Kluber to go even up in the series coming the the Stadium would have been huge.
Quote:
Criminal. The “I didn’t want to disrupt the pitchers rhythm” line is utter shit.
Then he said he left Green in (who clearly didn’t have his good stuff) bc Lindor was 0-2 lifetime against Green. A sample size of 2 fucking ABs, so he leaves in a pitcher who just got ripped by Yan Gomes?!?!
I’ve groused about the “binders” derisive nickname many times, but it’s so fucking accurate and spot on after last nights debacle I hereby concede the debate now and forever.
If they lose this series, do you think Joe just lost his job?
Beating Kluber to go even up in the series coming the the Stadium would have been huge.
I concede I’m clearly still very wound up, like most of us...so my first reaction is how can he not lose his job?
I wonder how Cashman feels about it, or the rest of the Yanks brass. I suspect Cash is very frustrated, but I have no doubt Levine, Trost and the rest of that merry band of bean counters love Girardi, bc he never embarrasses them off the field and likely doesn’t complain much.
So the question may be...who’s calls is it really?
And I disagree with those who say C.C. didn’t give you much past that all year anyway. Joe used the 100 pitch barometer on C.C. when it came to taking him out this year. C.C. was in cruise control and the way he was pitching could have easily gone seven.
Joe got in the way this time. It’s his managerial style. He makes moves because that’s what managers do. Not because it’s necessary. I was shocked when took C.C. out. Even as he brought Chad Green in I thought well it’s Chad Green but at that point why? C.C. was in complete control and he had a five run lead with one out in the sixth against and an Indian team that couldn’t figure him out.
It wasn’t a one run lead and the Indians pushing the issue. Joe blew it. Then he compounds the problem but not listening to his catcher late in the game and doesn’t challange because his replay guy can’t give him an up or down signal. What did he have to lose. In this case after that performance he may have engineered his way out of New York.
He is formulaic to a fault . However, this time he made some moves outside the box. Pitching Robertson a second inning. I've always advocated that. Well, Alabamie fell behind Bruce , whose mind set was not to swing at a curveball, So he keep giving him curveballs . Sanchez switched at 2-0. Bruce knew exactly where he was going with the ball.
But Frazier gave Cleveland 2 runs early. You're playing in a stadium that has always played small, just like Camden. When batters hit the ball on the ground in MLB this season , the Out rate is 86 %. So CC got porked. First by Frazier, then Girardi.
8-3 with the world's best pull pen . 11 outs to go. Now they probably will get swept because the Indians left-handed bats will pepper the right-field seats against Tanaka.
Lastly it looks like the umpire Union has decided that the Indians are going to end the streak this season. The field has been tilted to their advantage . Tough combo to beat because the team is damn good.
Fuck!!!!!!