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We're Picking in the Top 5... Who Ya Got?

M.S. : 10/8/2017 8:32 pm
QB Sam Darnold?
QB Josh Allen?
QB Josh Rosen?
QB Lamar Jackson?
OT Orlando Brown?

Someone else?

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If we are drafting in the top 5  
EricJ : 10/8/2017 9:45 pm : link
and a franchise QB is sitting there, we would be stupid not to take him. Eli is virtually done whether he wants it that way or not. Without a legitimate starting QB, it will be years before we are competitive again
RE: Giants rebuilding line  
WillVAB : 10/8/2017 9:45 pm : link
In comment 13637841 hassan said:
Quote:
Need not come at expense of taking a game changer


Beckham is a game changer, how has that translated into wins and losses?
RE: People are sheep  
thomasa510 : 10/8/2017 10:19 pm : link
In comment 13637810 WillVAB said:
Quote:
People buy into draft hype every year about players and classes and it's bullshit.

If Reese picks a QB and is wrong, and there's a greater than 50% chance he will be wrong, it will set this franchise back a long time.


That's not a decision changer. If you have the chance to draft a franchise QB then you do. The position is just that important.

Even if we grab a QB, I think manning should have a chance next year
RE: RE: People are sheep  
WillVAB : 10/8/2017 10:32 pm : link
In comment 13637984 thomasa510 said:
Quote:
In comment 13637810 WillVAB said:


Quote:


People buy into draft hype every year about players and classes and it's bullshit.

If Reese picks a QB and is wrong, and there's a greater than 50% chance he will be wrong, it will set this franchise back a long time.



That's not a decision changer. If you have the chance to draft a franchise QB then you do. The position is just that important.

Even if we grab a QB, I think manning should have a chance next year


I disagree. As a fan, I value championships. I think acquiring a bunch of premium picks now gives the Giants the best shot to address deficiencies and put themselves in a position to win another ring over the next few years. I don't see one pick on a QB getting this team any closer to winning a championship.
See thats what I thought in 2013 @ 0-6...  
guitarguybs12 : 10/8/2017 10:37 pm : link
then the fuckers had to run off 7 more wins.
RE: RE: RE: People are sheep  
RobCarpenter : 10/8/2017 10:43 pm : link


Quote:


I disagree. As a fan, I value championships. I think acquiring a bunch of premium picks now gives the Giants the best shot to address deficiencies and put themselves in a position to win another ring over the next few years. I don't see one pick on a QB getting this team any closer to winning a championship.


The Giants arenít the Cleveland Browns. You take the franchise QB, then start the three year rebuild process. But the rebuild has to start with a new GM/head coach.
SAQUON BARKLEY  
brunswick : 10/8/2017 11:19 pm : link
and there shouldn't be a debate.
Barkley  
nyballa0891 : 10/8/2017 11:36 pm : link
Been clamoring for him for weeks. Qbs are a crapshoot and the olin talent at top of draft isnt that great (a pick in top 5 would be a reach). Eli has shown he still has enough Barkley is an absolute stud if youve seen enough of his tape
You have a chance to grab a franchise QB  
Vanzetti : 10/8/2017 11:58 pm : link
you don't pass it up.

QBs are just way more important than RBs in today's game.
People will be talking about Derwin James  
barens : 10/9/2017 12:05 am : link
Come draft time. May even bring back memories of the 2004 draft with Eli, Ben and Sean Taylor.
Pessimist!  
old man : 10/9/2017 12:17 am : link
We're sitting at at least 3 and no OBJ.
We go 1-16 at best.
I say....another weapon. If JR is still here.
It's a very strong draft at the top  
Vanzetti : 10/9/2017 12:39 am : link
it's a good year to suck
RE:  
Vanzetti : 10/9/2017 12:41 am : link
In comment 13637568 Eli owns all said:
Quote:


Qb - darnold or Rossen
Lt - Adams or McGlinchey
Rb - Barkley

Barkley being the least of the top 5


Agree 100%. Gives the Giants options. Get a new franchise QB or the franchise LT the team so desperately needs. Or a great RB
RE: 1 name  
old man : 10/9/2017 12:51 am : link
In comment 13637775 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Saquon Barkley


Not questioning your player choice per se but with the current group of lugnuts and potentionally a worse group next year( I don't know of potential nonNYFG OL FAs) wouldn't we be better off going OL rd 1&2 ...give EF opportunity at RG and try to rebuild OL asap while we still have a nice Corp of receivers?
The Reese mess will take at least 3 years anyway...unless there are FAs in 18/19 that will come here and speed up turnaround.
Anyone who even mentions Josh Allen  
8 Ball : 10/9/2017 1:00 am : link
makes me chuckle. Like I do when a chick talks about routes.... Have any of you actually watched Allen play this season? Or even looked at his stats? He sucks. And its not a case of him being surrounded by crappy players. His accuracy and decision-making are awful.
Saquon  
RAIN : 10/9/2017 2:31 am : link
I get the bit about the QB's too. Darnold was the guy, but his struggles has thrown the wrench in the can't miss hyperbole. Rosen ha stud talent, but his attitude in NYC scares me. After that there's some really intriguing talent that will become available; and the balance of the season will bear that out.

Right now though Barkley looks like he can carry an offense in the mold of the old time dominant backs like Sanders, like Dickerson, and Simpson. His collection of speed, size, vision, and change of direction don't come around ... ever. If a QB steps up n front him, I get it. For me it would have to be Darnold getting right and living up to he hype. But right now Saquon is the real deal and could have QB like impact.
From Drew Boylhart....  
Milton : 10/9/2017 4:46 am : link
Quote:
1 Ė Someone needs to pay attention to WR Jaleel Scott New Mexico State; there is too much size, speed and talent not too.

2 Ė I said it last week and Iíll say once again this week; USC Sam Darnold is a very talent quarterback who is not ready for the NFL. Stop pushing him into a level he is not ready for.

4 Ė I keep waiting for Penn State RB Saquan Barkley to show me that he might not be THE best player in this coming draft. So far it hasnít happened.

7 Ė The most improved QB so far this season is Clemson QB Kelly Bryant. His play from the pocket has been improving from week to week. Credit to the coaching and to Kelly who seems to be very coachable. The difference in Kellyís improved play and coaching is leaps and bounds better than what USC is accomplishing with its high profile quarterback.

9 Ė Louisville QB Lamar Jackson is an excellent athlete playing the quarterback position. He reminds me a lot of RGIII.

10 Ė There is something lacking in UCLA Josh Rosenís game and I know what it is. Itís something quarterbacks have to have to win the big games consistently and it has nothing to do with talent. Itís the same problem the Charges QB Philip Rivers has.

"Talking to Myself" - ( New Window )
One of the QBs  
jeff57 : 10/9/2017 6:21 am : link
Darnold, Rosen or Jackson. Don't have a preference as of yet.
Milton, I canít say I agree with half  
barens : 10/9/2017 8:03 am : link
Of the things Boylhart has to say there. Darnold has not fully figured it out yet, but his timing and anticipation is second to none.

His statement on Rosen is highly questionable. Major comeback to take down a really good SEC team almost all on his own speaks volumes to me about what heís capable of if he had a better team around him. And you know what else, Philip Rivers is a damn good quarterback.
Way too early  
JonC : 10/9/2017 8:07 am : link
but you could pencil in they likely go QB, DE, or LT in that order unless another playmaker rises to the top. They will look at premium skill positions first.
RE: You guys are kidding  
ajr2456 : 10/9/2017 8:18 am : link
In comment 13637736 Clintqb17 said:
Quote:
About Lamar Jackson right? He is not an NFL QB. Sorry!!!


Heís proven to be more of an NFL QB than Darnold and Allen at this point
RE: Lamar Jackson  
mdc1 : 10/9/2017 9:26 am : link
In comment 13637580 RDJR said:
Quote:
Please.


wonder if he will stick around for 1 more year as they play Bama in the 2018 opener. A big showcase for him or a way to avoid exposure against elite teams that Louisville has issues with.
RE: You guys are kidding  
jeff57 : 10/9/2017 9:26 am : link
In comment 13637736 Clintqb17 said:
Quote:
About Lamar Jackson right? He is not an NFL QB. Sorry!!!


Yeah, like DeShaun Watson.
RE: I'd go with Rosen  
mdc1 : 10/9/2017 9:26 am : link
In comment 13637603 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
and then Allen in that order.


Rosen seems like a nutjob and talks too much. Need someone with emotional intelligence.
RE: RE: I'd go with Rosen  
jeff57 : 10/9/2017 9:30 am : link
In comment 13638573 mdc1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13637603 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


and then Allen in that order.



Rosen seems like a nutjob and talks too much. Need someone with emotional intelligence.


A nutjob? Because he has opinions?
If possible...  
Dan in the Springs : 10/9/2017 9:31 am : link
put me in the trade down club. If there was a chance to get 9 picks in the first two rounds of 2018-19, I'd take the nine picks and roll the dice with Eli. I still like Webb a lot too. Furthermore, what's needed is an infusion of top talent that a new regime could build the future of this team upon. Not much right now that you want to count of four to six years down the road, as much as I hate to admit it.
RE: RE: RE: I'd go with Rosen  
mdc1 : 10/9/2017 9:33 am : link
In comment 13638581 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 13638573 mdc1 said:


Quote:


In comment 13637603 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


and then Allen in that order.



Rosen seems like a nutjob and talks too much. Need someone with emotional intelligence.



A nutjob? Because he has opinions?

Yes
Dismissing Webb just because he slipped to us in the 3rd  
PatersonPlank : 10/9/2017 9:36 am : link
is irresponsible. We have a guy with the size and skills, who had a senior year at Cal the same or better than the guys coming out, and who has shown favorably. He needs to be given some type of chance before we run off to use another top pick on another unproven QB, just because some publication says that this is a good year for QB's.

I've watched most of these guys a few times now. Outside of Rosen I'm not sure I like any of them. I see lots of hype.
RE: RE: Lamar Jackson  
ajr2456 : 10/9/2017 9:50 am : link
In comment 13638570 mdc1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13637580 RDJR said:


Quote:


Please.



wonder if he will stick around for 1 more year as they play Bama in the 2018 opener. A big showcase for him or a way to avoid exposure against elite teams that Louisville has issues with.


Why would him leaving be looked as him avoiding Alabama?
Based on yesterday we might be a little short handed  
Jimmy Googs : 10/9/2017 10:02 am : link
at WR
RE: If possible...  
spike : 10/9/2017 10:10 am : link
In comment 13638586 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
put me in the trade down club. If there was a chance to get 9 picks in the first two rounds of 2018-19, I'd take the nine picks and roll the dice with Eli. I still like Webb a lot too. Furthermore, what's needed is an infusion of top talent that a new regime could build the future of this team upon. Not much right now that you want to count of four to six years down the road, as much as I hate to admit it.


trade down for more picks and some top picks for 2019 draft
RE: You guys are kidding  
NNJ Tom : 10/9/2017 10:14 am : link
In comment 13637736 Clintqb17 said:
Quote:
About Lamar Jackson right? He is not an NFL QB. Sorry!!!


This.
It's easy for me... it's Sam Darnold.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/9/2017 10:15 am : link
I realize he isn't ready, but the Giants situation with Eli means he won't have to play in 2018 and their situation with Davis Webb means he might not even have to play after that. But his upside is too great to ignore. He's not Aaron Rodgers mobile, but he's a good athlete for a man his size and is a GREAT thrower on the run. I think that's incredibly important in the league now.

I like Olsen, but I prefer a mobile QB to a pocket passer. I have to watch more of Josh Allen before I can formulate an opinion on him, but it's hard to see the physical tools when the offense isn't moving the ball.

Barkley is a wonderful player, but I'm completely soured on the idea of a drafting a RB when QBs are available. If there are no QBs, OL, or DL worthy of taking that high, only then would I go for Barkley.
RB figures well down the list  
JonC : 10/9/2017 10:21 am : link
.
Will VAB  
hassan : 10/9/2017 10:31 am : link
you know, you dont need to address line by picking someone in first round. Giants in fact did spend two first rounders with the current bunch.

The problem is not that Giants drafted Beckham, problem is they did not address line well. Through bust free agent signings and bust picks like Schwartz and Flowers and even Pugh to some degree.

In fact, given the state they are in, they should pick the best player available at any position other than receiver or tight end.

This idea that the Giants did not spend resources on the line is total bunk; they did, they just did so poorly. Next GM should consider signing free agents and using right picks on the line.

With this group, I believe a solid lt will work wonders and another guard and this line will be much better. Many ways to accomplish that.
Top 10 prospect lists  
njm : 10/9/2017 10:40 am : link
CBS Draft Scout

1. Mason Rudolph QB Oklahoma St.
2. Orlando Brown OT Oklahoma
3. James Washington WR Oklahoma St.
4. Minkah Fitzpatrick CB Alabama (Jersey kid)
5. Saquon Barkley RB Penn St.
6. Arden Key DE LSU
7. Quinton Nelson G ND
8. Derwin James S Fla. St.
9. Sam Darnold QB USC
10. Ogbonnra Okornkwo OLB Oklahoma St.

Rosen didn't make the Top 20

Great Blue North

1. Darnold
2. Josh Rosen QB UCLA
3. Josh Allen QB Wyoming
4. James
5. Barkley
6. Christian Wilkins DT Clemson
7. Key
8. Tarvous McFadden CB Fla. St.
9. Brown
10. Dre'Mont Jones DT Ohio St.

Note - I think these are Colin's preseason picks while CBS has been updated.
QB or nothing  
dboom : 10/9/2017 11:47 am : link
You get a top 5 pick and don't come out with a franchise QB it's another disaster.
RE: Theyíre taking a QB  
dboom : 10/9/2017 11:48 am : link
100% truth right here.
as long as we're talking draft  
santacruzom : 10/9/2017 12:09 pm : link
I actually caught quite a bit of the UC Davis/Eastern Washington game this weekend, the first time I've seen my old Aggies play in quite some time. Gage Gubrud, Eastern Washington's QB just stunned the hell out of me. Now granted, there's a level of competition factor here, but I was impressed enough to look him up and it turns out that he nearly beat Steve McNair's FCS record of total yardage last year, his first year starting. He was off by 33, posting 5766 yards and 53 TD's (48 rushing).

He went to the same school as Cooper Kupp, so I have to imagine he's on scouts' radars. I wonder what round he'd go.
RE: Will VAB  
WillVAB : 10/9/2017 11:16 pm : link
In comment 13638753 hassan said:
Quote:
you know, you dont need to address line by picking someone in first round. Giants in fact did spend two first rounders with the current bunch.

The problem is not that Giants drafted Beckham, problem is they did not address line well. Through bust free agent signings and bust picks like Schwartz and Flowers and even Pugh to some degree.

In fact, given the state they are in, they should pick the best player available at any position other than receiver or tight end.

This idea that the Giants did not spend resources on the line is total bunk; they did, they just did so poorly. Next GM should consider signing free agents and using right picks on the line.

With this group, I believe a solid lt will work wonders and another guard and this line will be much better. Many ways to accomplish that.


Reese's track record with 3rd through 7th round picks is horrible. 1-2 round picks have been pretty solid. A trade down makes a ton of sense because it gives Reese the ammo to add talent in rounds he's demonstrated a high success rate.

There's a realistic shot this team could be looking for 3-5 new OL starters in a year with dogshit at OL in FA. Addressing the OL with typical Reese shitty mid to late rounders is simply unacceptable and would make the fan base lose their minds.

A trade down with Buffalo makes a ton of sense. They've made the moves they've made to acquire picks so they can have the ammo to move up for a legit franchise QB. They haven't had one since Jim Kelly. They would give it all away for a shot at a legitimate QB, and I'd gladly take it. Eli has another run in him with talent around him -- I want rings, not QB fantasy stats for the next 10 years (if we're lucky).

9 premium picks over '18 and '19 would allow the FO to get back to basics and rebuild this time the right way -- in the trenches. That's plenty of picks to rebuild the OL, add a pass rusher, and add talent/speed at LB.
Something scary  
nyynyg : 10/10/2017 6:27 am : link
Is the Giants may be using a premium early round pick on a WR. Think about our depth chart right now. That is downright scary
WillVAB  
hassan : 10/10/2017 8:58 am : link
We should hope reese is not making picks next year. Giants will have to select o linemen somewhere in draft and try to find a free agent.

If they trade down and stockpile picks yes great. As long as they get the right haul. But you assume reese is making the picks why would you assume he would trade down he has never done it?
RE: WillVAB  
WillVAB : 10/10/2017 11:05 pm : link
In comment 13640873 hassan said:
Quote:
We should hope reese is not making picks next year. Giants will have to select o linemen somewhere in draft and try to find a free agent.

If they trade down and stockpile picks yes great. As long as they get the right haul. But you assume reese is making the picks why would you assume he would trade down he has never done it?


I think odds are Reese sticks around. Just the way the organization seems to operate. I may be wrong.

Reese has never traded down but that doesn't mean he won't. We don't know why he hasn't traded down. We've usually picked around the middle so maybe he thought the drop was substantial. Maybe his demands are too high for partners. Who knows. What I do know is teams give up a lot to move up for a QB. We see it all the time.
RE: Milton, I canít say I agree with half  
Milton : 10/11/2017 12:02 am : link
In comment 13638393 barens said:
Quote:
His statement on Rosen is highly questionable. Major comeback to take down a really good SEC team almost all on his own speaks volumes to me about what heís capable of if he had a better team around him. And you know what else, Philip Rivers is a damn good quarterback.
I can't say I disagree with you. Rivers is a damn good quarterback and I've never bought into the whole "can't win the big game" label for any QB, whether it be Rivers or Romo or Rosen or any other QB whose name begins with the letter R. And it's not just the letter R, there are also several other letters in the alphabet for which the label does not apply.
I have no issue taking a RB  
blueblood : 10/11/2017 11:33 am : link
for years we have kept hearing the mantra.. you can get a RB in the later rounds..

How's that worked out for us so far??

trade down  
idiotsavant : 10/11/2017 12:10 pm : link
1. -EACH- additional pick you garner lowers your risk by 50%.

2. You may well still end up in the first round, so you can apply any positional ideas as in above posts well also.

3. Impose self discipline, you should have to earn the right to draft QBs and WRs early, that is, earn it by building a solid team on the lines, etc.
lets say any [random player] bust risk + major injury risk = 33%  
idiotsavant : 10/11/2017 12:26 pm : link
so, with any one player you have 33% injury or bust risk.

Made-up number for sake of discussion.

Your chance of gaining -ONE- non bust + non major injury player with three picks (trade down) as opposed to one pick, would be lowered to 11%. That's a 22% improvement.

That's your comp. Its not 1 to 1.

In addition, stock piling many picks in a known range, say 6 high second round to mid fourth round (trade ups and trade downs) would enable the staff to really focus their thinking, greatly raise the chance of finding contributing starters, and build more rational comparative internal arguments in one vs the other prospect.

There are other ways to mitigate risk, avoiding known reaches, avoiding wishful thinking in character and teachability, and knowing which positions to value stats more (such as wrs total # of receptions, dbacks INTs, etc) and which positions to value physical size and pure athletics + attitude more (D line).

typo  
idiotsavant : 10/11/2017 12:42 pm : link
your RISK is reduced to 11%. you saw what I meant.
so your chance of getting a player goes from 67% to 89%  
idiotsavant : 10/11/2017 12:45 pm : link
or so.

its probably a much lower %# on both ends in real numbers. Its to advocate the trade downs broadly.
OT Orlando Brown and trade for Alex Smith  
GMAN4LIFE : 10/11/2017 1:17 pm : link
.
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