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This is what happens when you ignore "character".

ThatLimerickGuy : 10/8/2017 8:57 pm
The board knows my feelings on how I saw this implosion coming from a mile away with the decision to give JPP a big contract and continue to coddle Beckham and let him loose without repercussions.

Slowly but surely I have seen the pendulum shift from when it was me vs the mob in saying to trade Beckham to where it was after last week, which was probably close to 50/50 pro the idea.

JPP got paid and plays hard about 50% of the snaps he is in on, and gets very little QB pressure. He is basically a slightly above average run defender now with no pass rush.

The vets need to set the example for the young guys. In our TC champion years we had strong leaders. Pierce, Tuck, Jacobs, Eli. These guys were tough as nails and nobody was putting themselves above the team in that locker room without it being handled internally.

Now we have a star guy who pees like a dog and scripts his td celebrations a week in advance and a 7 finger star DE who is a shell of his former self.

Don't act surprised. We put ourselves in bed with the wrong type of player to get one more ring in the Eli era and it backfired badly.

The good news is that a new Era is starting soon. That will be exciting. Maybe we learn from our mistakes and go back to what made us successful; creating a team of tough hard-nosed team guys.
Beckham was the only reason we didn't go 5-11  
Les in TO : 10/8/2017 9:00 pm : link
Last year. JPP sucks I will agree with you about that.
Says the guy that wanted our beat reporters to  
robbieballs2003 : 10/8/2017 9:00 pm : link
Go dig up info on Rodgers' sex life to gain a competitive advantage in the playoff game. That shows great character.
It first starts  
Earl the goat : 10/8/2017 9:01 pm : link
With a new HC who won't put up with such antics

But I definitely agree with you on the Odell and JPP problems
Hahaha  
KWALL2 : 10/8/2017 9:03 pm : link
What a fool.

Yeah. It's about character of JPP. Thats the problem here.
To the extent that these criticisms of OBJ and JPP are true  
BlackLight : 10/8/2017 9:03 pm : link
I have difficulty what they have to do with us being 0-5.
RE: Hahaha  
ThatLimerickGuy : 10/8/2017 9:05 pm : link
In comment 13637691 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
What a fool.

Yeah. It's about character of JPP. Thats the problem here.


A bigger part of it than you want to admit.

The problem is systemic. Leaders lead by example.
New and interesting way to blame OBJ  
GiantFilthy : 10/8/2017 9:07 pm : link
for the shit play of others.

Thanks.
.  
Chris in Philly : 10/8/2017 9:08 pm : link
RE: RE: Hahaha  
robbieballs2003 : 10/8/2017 9:08 pm : link
In comment 13637698 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13637691 KWALL2 said:


Quote:


What a fool.

Yeah. It's about character of JPP. Thats the problem here.



A bigger part of it than you want to admit.

The problem is systemic. Leaders lead by example.


So explain why you mentioned JPP? By all accounts last year all we heard was how Vernon and JPP were always staying late and putting in extra work and showing up early. We also won a Super Bowl with JPP. So, what examples are there that JPP has character issues? Ever since the fireworks issue he has done a lot of great things such as donating money to hospitals and doing PSAs about fireworks.
RE: To the extent that these criticisms of OBJ and JPP are true  
ThatLimerickGuy : 10/8/2017 9:08 pm : link
In comment 13637695 BlackLight said:
Quote:
I have difficulty what they have to do with us being 0-5.


We are losing close games. Where is JPP to get a big sack to close out a game or a key pressure to force a turnover?

Where is the contrition of a guy who gets 15 yard celebration penalties, which turn into OOB kickoffs, which turn into losing one score games?

Some of it is mcadoo. He is the least respected HC in the league and he did it to himself.
You are absolutely right  
markky : 10/8/2017 9:09 pm : link
No way everyyis giving it their all when the leaders act like fools
In some ways I agree  
DC Gmen Fan : 10/8/2017 9:10 pm : link
I do think this team lacks leadership, especially from the HC and on the defense.

So just so I understand this correctly  
MetsAreBack : 10/8/2017 9:11 pm : link
OBJs 110 yards today and 48 yard Td pass to put us up in the 4th quarter only to get hurt on the next series ... was the reason we lost.

Just want to be sure I have this right before i judge the OP
Sometimes I wonder if people actually followed some of the previous  
Devon : 10/8/2017 9:11 pm : link
Giants teams or if they just get so set on a narrative, reality doesn't matter.

Both the two recent SB teams had plenty of guys that lacked "character". The all time greatest player for the franchise was a total scumbag off the field that would fall asleep in team meetings. But JPP (who has a ring and was a critical player in getting it) and OBJ are too much for a team to overcome? Yeah, right.

"Character" is not the problem with this team. Coaching, talent, and shitty luck is.
Good point, Lim.  
GiantFilthy : 10/8/2017 9:11 pm : link
Why did OBJ kick that ball out of bounds?
RE: In some ways I agree  
robbieballs2003 : 10/8/2017 9:12 pm : link
In comment 13637717 DC Gmen Fan said:
Quote:
I do think this team lacks leadership, especially from the HC and on the defense.


There is a HUGE difference between not being a leader and lacking character. Snacks is a high character guy amd admits he isnt a leader.
RE: RE: RE: Hahaha  
ThatLimerickGuy : 10/8/2017 9:15 pm : link
In comment 13637708 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13637698 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


In comment 13637691 KWALL2 said:


Quote:


What a fool.

Yeah. It's about character of JPP. Thats the problem here.



A bigger part of it than you want to admit.

The problem is systemic. Leaders lead by example.



So explain why you mentioned JPP? By all accounts last year all we heard was how Vernon and JPP were always staying late and putting in extra work and showing up early. We also won a Super Bowl with JPP. So, what examples are there that JPP has character issues? Ever since the fireworks issue he has done a lot of great things such as donating money to hospitals and doing PSAs about fireworks.


Oh...you mean a player worked hard in a contract year? Color me shocked.

Also, "ever since" is a bs argument. "Ever since" OJ killed his wife he hasn't killed anyone, so we have to eliminate any past transgressions.

JPP is and has always been a wasted talent. He had made millions off of a great rookie year playing alongside Osi and Tuck and one blocked FG against Dallas.

I hate to say I told you all so but I did. Go back to the thread after the josh Norman game. This shit show was so easy to predict.

For the first time in my life I am now embarrassed to be a Giants fan, and it has nothing to do with wins and losses.
Elliot is really destroying the Cowboys.  
robbieballs2003 : 10/8/2017 9:15 pm : link
Tyreek Hill is really destroying the Chiefs.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Hahaha  
robbieballs2003 : 10/8/2017 9:16 pm : link
In comment 13637738 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13637708 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 13637698 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


In comment 13637691 KWALL2 said:


Quote:


What a fool.

Yeah. It's about character of JPP. Thats the problem here.



A bigger part of it than you want to admit.

The problem is systemic. Leaders lead by example.



So explain why you mentioned JPP? By all accounts last year all we heard was how Vernon and JPP were always staying late and putting in extra work and showing up early. We also won a Super Bowl with JPP. So, what examples are there that JPP has character issues? Ever since the fireworks issue he has done a lot of great things such as donating money to hospitals and doing PSAs about fireworks.



Oh...you mean a player worked hard in a contract year? Color me shocked.

Also, "ever since" is a bs argument. "Ever since" OJ killed his wife he hasn't killed anyone, so we have to eliminate any past transgressions.

JPP is and has always been a wasted talent. He had made millions off of a great rookie year playing alongside Osi and Tuck and one blocked FG against Dallas.

I hate to say I told you all so but I did. Go back to the thread after the josh Norman game. This shit show was so easy to predict.

For the first time in my life I am now embarrassed to be a Giants fan, and it has nothing to do with wins and losses.


Great job not amswering the question.
And murdering your wife and having fireworks go off in your hand  
robbieballs2003 : 10/8/2017 9:19 pm : link
Are definitely in the same galaxy. Great comparison. There is really something wrong with you. You talk about character but started this thread as an "I told you so" thread to pat yourself on the back.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Hahaha  
ThatLimerickGuy : 10/8/2017 9:19 pm : link
In comment 13637747 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13637738 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


In comment 13637708 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 13637698 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


In comment 13637691 KWALL2 said:


Quote:


What a fool.

Yeah. It's about character of JPP. Thats the problem here.



A bigger part of it than you want to admit.

The problem is systemic. Leaders lead by example.



So explain why you mentioned JPP? By all accounts last year all we heard was how Vernon and JPP were always staying late and putting in extra work and showing up early. We also won a Super Bowl with JPP. So, what examples are there that JPP has character issues? Ever since the fireworks issue he has done a lot of great things such as donating money to hospitals and doing PSAs about fireworks.



Oh...you mean a player worked hard in a contract year? Color me shocked.

Also, "ever since" is a bs argument. "Ever since" OJ killed his wife he hasn't killed anyone, so we have to eliminate any past transgressions.

JPP is and has always been a wasted talent. He had made millions off of a great rookie year playing alongside Osi and Tuck and one blocked FG against Dallas.

I hate to say I told you all so but I did. Go back to the thread after the josh Norman game. This shit show was so easy to predict.

For the first time in my life I am now embarrassed to be a Giants fan, and it has nothing to do with wins and losses.



Great job not amswering the question.


I did. Even a guy who is stupid enough to play with dynamite in a contract year can figure out the 2nd time around how to be a boy scout for 6 months.
when people say  
well...bye TC : 10/8/2017 9:20 pm : link
"I hate to say I told you so", they dont hate it at all. They love saying it.
RE: And murdering your wife and having fireworks go off in your hand  
ThatLimerickGuy : 10/8/2017 9:21 pm : link
In comment 13637754 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Are definitely in the same galaxy. Great comparison. There is really something wrong with you. You talk about character but started this thread as an "I told you so" thread to pat yourself on the back.


You know that isn't what I said.

Hey maybe you want to watch a bunch of me first guys loaf around and lose every game but I don't.
No "Character" Issues with JPP and OBJ,  
clatterbuck : 10/8/2017 9:28 pm : link
This team has a lot of issues but blaming JPP and OBJ is just silly. OBJ is an emotional kid who still demonstrates immaturity but he works hard, plays hurt, and by all accounts is a great teammate. JPP is not having a great year but he's playng 90% of defensive snaps and playing hard. We have enough real problems without inventing stuff.
When your team is 0-5. There is a problem.  
AnnapolisMike : 10/8/2017 10:06 pm : link
What has JPP done in 5 games to justify his contract? OBJ is a great talent, but a headcase. Pissing like a dog, crying on the sideline, making it about him. I could give a shit if he never catches another ball for the Giants.

If the Giants sign Beckham to the largest contract for a non QB... They will wallow in mediocrity. Beckham's best days are behind him. Spend the money on good role players who make the Giants better.
Odell Beckham  
Dave in PA : 10/8/2017 10:09 pm : link
Is by far the best player on this team. Trade him? How about we clone him instead?
ANother shit thread  
UConn4523 : 10/8/2017 10:12 pm : link
BBI is becoming worse than the 0-5 Giants.
Good lord  
kennyd : 10/8/2017 10:19 pm : link
That's all I got, good lord....
RE: Odell Beckham  
ThatLimerickGuy : 10/8/2017 10:24 pm : link
In comment 13637943 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
Is by far the best player on this team. Trade him? How about we clone him instead?


Great idea.

Then we can change the team name to Ringling Brothers.

Beckham is Exhibit A that talent without a proper mental approach to team sports is detrimental as opposed to beneficial to success.

F it though. Beckham is laughing his ass off as he gets Verizon, head and shoulders and other endorsements. Do you think he gives a shit about the Giants? No way.

Now his trade value is at an all time low.

Here is the question. Looking forward for the Giants, would
You rather have a Beckham who is going to want 25 million a year soon or go into the 2018 draft with three first round picks and two second round picks plus a good Lber (my proposed trade for the last 2 years)
Not sure you can get a one for him now  
AnnapolisMike : 10/8/2017 10:33 pm : link
I think his salary potential took a hit as well. Is he the guy you want as the face of your franchise? The guy you hitch your cart too?

I am thinking no.
Can you help me understand  
Bill2 : 10/8/2017 10:44 pm : link
Since aspersions about "character" in another is something men of character avoid judging can you help me understand the factual grounding behind the certainty you feel about this?
RE: RE: Odell Beckham  
TurdFurguson : 10/8/2017 10:51 pm : link
In comment 13637994 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13637943 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


Is by far the best player on this team. Trade him? How about we clone him instead?



Great idea.

Then we can change the team name to Ringling Brothers.

Beckham is Exhibit A that talent without a proper mental approach to team sports is detrimental as opposed to beneficial to success.

F it though. Beckham is laughing his ass off as he gets Verizon, head and shoulders and other endorsements. Do you think he gives a shit about the Giants? No way.

Now his trade value is at an all time low.

Here is the question. Looking forward for the Giants, would
You rather have a Beckham who is going to want 25 million a year soon or go into the 2018 draft with three first round picks and two second round picks plus a good Lber (my proposed trade for the last 2 years)


Right, because it's his character flaws that caused the injury. Maybe his teammates accepted him for what he was: Eccentric, but exceptionally talented player that wore his heart on his sleeve and would give you everything he had every Sunday.

Rather than sarcastic, let's do it this way. Assume we make the trade. Do you trust Reese to get enough talent to replace Beckham?
JPP stinks this year  
SHO'NUFF : 10/8/2017 10:54 pm : link
but I would never question his effort, heart or character.
.  
Bill2 : 10/8/2017 11:05 pm : link
JPP is not what he was. But he did re hab. that takes persistence and hard work. Some would call in character. but you would consider it greed and just fooling the Giants to get a contract.


I think Beckham exhibits bad judgement too often. He plays hard. He marches to a different drummer. He practices hard.

I am handicapped because I cant see through the TV and through the helmets into their minds to see if either has character. Whats more I don't know if when they had choices to support family or do the right things they had character.

Come to think of it I don't have any basis to comment on their character. I'm just a sports fan.

Now...if Mara let them sign guys of bad character then he clearly is a man of bad character. And if Tisch allows a man of bad character to sign men of bad character then well...its an orgy of bad men.

Since I don't know this...I can watch and claim ignorance

But since you know for sure that they are men of bad character signed by men of bad character...why are you rooting for a team with men of bad character????
Translation on the OP  
montanagiant : 10/8/2017 11:06 pm : link
"I suck at humble bragging"
The OP's logic is so faulty that the initial player mentioned as a  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/8/2017 11:08 pm : link
"leader" is the guy who was out with Plaxico Burress the night he wrecked the 2008 season.
Ridiculous  
Craigg619 : 10/8/2017 11:21 pm : link
OBJ just broke his leg on the field working his ass off and giving it his absolute best effort and you're sitting here questioning his character and saying it's one of the reasons this season has gone south? And then you have a few posters agreeing with you?

This is absolutely insane. One of he worst posts I've ever seen on this board. What happened to some Giant fans? I felt terrible for the guy today. Gives more effort than anyone on the team and fights his butt off for his teammates. Brutal how often he's criticized but especially after today's game.
IDK, I saw JPP chasing  
section125 : 10/8/2017 11:31 pm : link
people down field. He is also playing his wrong side. With OV out, they should move JPP back to the right side.
When Eli fumbled, I saw  
CT Charlie : 10/8/2017 11:36 pm : link
a ton of guys in blue diving for the ball. I don't think effort is the issue.
It keeps getting better  
KWALL2 : 10/9/2017 12:19 am : link
Quote:
He had made millions off of a great rookie year playing alongside Osi and Tuck and one blocked FG against Dallas.


This is just a clue on how clueless you are about the subject.

You don't know shit about football or this player. Or the team for that matter. And that's clear the more you post.

You also don't have any inside info on JPP or anybody else on the team. You don't know the players. But you somehow know something about their character? This is nothing but more BS

He didn't have a "great roomie year". It was a good one late when he got more PT.

In year 2, he dominated and it had nothing to do with playing next to Tuck and Osi. He outplayed both by a wide margin. He had twice as many tackles as the 2 of them combined. He had more sacks then both combined. He was the best player on that defense and there wasn't a close 2nd.

He was also outstanding the next year.

You have a career long beef with a player you don't know. You don't know how to evaluate him. You don't know shit about the position or game,. And you have no idea how to compare him with others at the position or place any value on what he does. You have no fucking clue at all but you want to come here when the team is 0-5 and tell us all "I told you so" while you also tell us the entire Giants organization is run by complete fools because JPP made millions off that "rookie year".

Ok Thanks for that.
Trash topic.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/9/2017 12:32 am : link
.
Limerick keeps bringing the hits  
Modus Operandi : 10/9/2017 6:25 am : link
.
The entire 90s cowboys team  
Les in TO : 10/9/2017 6:56 am : link
Had character flaws but they won three Super Bowls. Talent eats character for breakfast
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