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Sit Eli? Share Time with Webb? How to Handle QB Situation?

NorwoodWideRight : 10/9/2017 8:26 am
The season is over. It may not be officially over, but it doesn't get any more over than this at 0-5 going into Denver and looking at 0-6, 0-7 and onward.

I'm not advocating sitting Eli, but how exactly do the Giants know what they have in Webb going forward in order to gauge our need to draft a QB if he doesn't get playing time? How do you judge his value to the future of the team? And, with the season over, why risk Eli going down with a debilitating injury? I know the Giants will never admit defeat, but I freaking hate the situation they're in right now.

If the Giants have a high, top-5 pick, and all signs point to them having exactly that, with 3 very good QB's at the top of the draft, do we give up on Webb without knowing exactly how he can benefit the club? If we do pick a QB, that makes the third round pick of Webb a waste. Do they keep Webb as a backup and let him finish out his time here? Do they trade him?

I just don't like the idea of going into the offseason without knowing if Webb can be a quarterback of the future. By all accounts, he's a very good (albeit raw) QB and some scouts had him going in round two or even round one. I believe one scout said he was the best value QB of the draft.
I'd like to see Webb  
bigbluehoya : 10/9/2017 8:31 am : link
Get at least his first dose of pro ball soon.

Nothing to do with Eli, really. Wins from this point are counter-productive.
I don't understand the logic  
Giantology : 10/9/2017 8:32 am : link
Sure, I get that you'd like to see how Webb would do.

But isn't he going to be just as much at risk physically? Won't his evaluation skewed by the lack of healthy WRs and a poor OL in front of him?

He's here to learn right now. I'm not against him taking snaps, but there's a reason why Eli is who he is, why he makes the money he does. Maybe if things are really bad at the end of the season, I could see Webb getting some snaps, but we're not about to hand him the keys and see what he can do.
Do we really think Webb is going to amount to anything?  
Britt in VA : 10/9/2017 8:32 am : link
Personally, I don't. I mean, we're going to bench Eli and throw away the streak he's worked on for 14 years for an unknown in Webb, who odds are is another Nassib? Secondly, how in the world would we even be able to evaluate Webb behind our shitshow o-line, next to no running game, and our soon to be journeyman WR core in McAdoo's boring predictable offense? Even if we could evaluate the guy, he could have all the talent in the world and he'll be David Carr by the end of the season.

Eli has two years left on his contract. You pick a QB high and you let him sit and learn behind a true Pro who can teach/mentor him, and who better to do that than Eli? Rogers sat behind Favre for what? 3 years?
Agree we need to see what  
mdthedream : 10/9/2017 8:32 am : link
Webb is not sure this early is the time but they should get him ready to play this year.
& who is he throwing to?  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/9/2017 8:33 am : link
We'll learn little to nothing because the talent around him is nonexistent.
No Team  
djstat : 10/9/2017 8:34 am : link
Should intentionally lose. Players on the roster are playing for Jobs.

What good does it do to play Webb with NO Wide Receivers. You want to see what he can do with a garbage line and garbage receivers.

All the people who would quit are quitters in life. Your attitude is awful. I hope they win as many games as possible.

Playing or not playing to better a drafts status is a losers mentality.

Webb can probably sail passes just as well as Eli  
fivehead : 10/9/2017 8:36 am : link
with added mobility also.
Unless you are prepared  
Reb8thVA : 10/9/2017 8:37 am : link
To let Webb start several games in a row you aren't going to get an accurate gauge of what you have in him.
if you don't see Webb at some point this season  
micky : 10/9/2017 8:38 am : link
then, basically, he's just another Nassib
Reese sucks!  
bluepepper : 10/9/2017 8:39 am : link
Reese can't evaluate talent!

His picks in mid round are awful!

Also: decent chance Reese nabbed a franchise QB in the 3rd round of a QB poor draft.

C'mon folks, a little consistency please.
RE: No Team  
NorwoodWideRight : 10/9/2017 8:39 am : link
In comment 13638450 djstat said:
Quote:
Should intentionally lose. Players on the roster are playing for Jobs.

What good does it do to play Webb with NO Wide Receivers. You want to see what he can do with a garbage line and garbage receivers.

All the people who would quit are quitters in life. Your attitude is awful. I hope they win as many games as possible.

Playing or not playing to better a drafts status is a losers mentality.


I'm a realist. I root for them to win. They weren't winning next week anyway, and now with no OBJ, they are winning MAYBE 3 games on the remainder of the year. We will have a top 5 pick.

We will be in a situation that only comes around every 10-20 years: the dwindling time on a franchise QB and the opportunity to secure a next generation QB. I just don't know how you make the determination to draft Eli's eventual replacement without knowing what cards you're holding in your hand.
No point in contemplating this  
UberAlias : 10/9/2017 8:42 am : link
Eli is the starting QB and will remain the starting QB through the end of his contract barring injury. Eli has a no trade clause in his contract and he isn't going anywhere.

Webb will not prevent them from drafting a QB high. If there is a guy there they like, they'll take him.

I think Eli's contract runs through 2019 with an option to take a hit and opt out after 2018, or something of the sort. So they have time to sort out his successor.
RE: No point in contemplating this  
Britt in VA : 10/9/2017 8:43 am : link
In comment 13638469 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Eli is the starting QB and will remain the starting QB through the end of his contract barring injury. Eli has a no trade clause in his contract and he isn't going anywhere.

Webb will not prevent them from drafting a QB high. If there is a guy there they like, they'll take him.

I think Eli's contract runs through 2019 with an option to take a hit and opt out after 2018, or something of the sort. So they have time to sort out his successor.


This post should be pinned to the top of the Corner Forum.
I'm agree with Norwood...  
richynyc : 10/9/2017 8:44 am : link
..and was saying the same thing on the way home to my friend who played on the 86-87 SB team. And he agreed.
Webb needs practice time  
jvm52106 : 10/9/2017 8:45 am : link
so I would cut Smith. We are going nowhere. This team is done.. Cut Smith and make Webb the backup so we can see what he does in practice. This planning for next year.

Eli is an Iron Man. You can't sit him. Now, if somebody wanted a QB badly (say Bradford stays injured or if the Jags want somebody instead of Bortles) then maybe Eli could be traded. But, I don't see him wanting to be traded or anyone willing to trade for him and his contract.

Eli start, Webb backup and Smith cut...

Too bad Mac fucked everything up in training camp  
ZogZerg : 10/9/2017 8:46 am : link
by not giving Web more time. Instead he WASTED Precious QB Reps with 2 loser QBs. Mac is a fucking idiot and needs to go ASAP.
.....  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 10/9/2017 8:50 am : link
Could you imagine the firestorm Mac would create by intentionally sitting Eli and ending the streak?

Not saying that it isn't the right move, but it'd be an absolute PR nightmare and the media would be frothing at the mouth

McAdoo has not earned the right to make that decision.  
Britt in VA : 10/9/2017 8:51 am : link
.
RE: .....  
NorwoodWideRight : 10/9/2017 8:52 am : link
In comment 13638484 CoughlinHandsonHips said:
Quote:
Could you imagine the firestorm Mac would create by intentionally sitting Eli and ending the streak?

Not saying that it isn't the right move, but it'd be an absolute PR nightmare and the media would be frothing at the mouth


Eli can start and still maintain his streak. I'm not advocating sitting Eli, I'm just opening up a discussion. What I'd like to see them do is, if they're getting blown out, put Webb in for the 4th. Let him play with the first string guys, as bad as they are. Give him some playing time and bring him up to NFL speed. At the end of the season, you'll have a much better picture of where you stand at QB.
RE: RE: .....  
Britt in VA : 10/9/2017 8:54 am : link
In comment 13638489 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
In comment 13638484 CoughlinHandsonHips said:


Quote:


Could you imagine the firestorm Mac would create by intentionally sitting Eli and ending the streak?

Not saying that it isn't the right move, but it'd be an absolute PR nightmare and the media would be frothing at the mouth




Eli can start and still maintain his streak. I'm not advocating sitting Eli, I'm just opening up a discussion. What I'd like to see them do is, if they're getting blown out, put Webb in for the 4th. Let him play with the first string guys, as bad as they are. Give him some playing time and bring him up to NFL speed. At the end of the season, you'll have a much better picture of where you stand at QB.


That's reasonable, and the more likely scenario.
......  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 10/9/2017 8:54 am : link
Yea I'd agree with that plan.

Here is the thing  
UberAlias : 10/9/2017 8:55 am : link
McAdoo does not have enough credibility in the organization to sit Eli. He's also not going to be a part of the long term plans unless he starts winning some games, so why would he be worrying about a future he's not going to be a part of even if it were his call?

His only hope is to salvage a few wins and Eli gives him the best shot at that. And if he had thoughts to the contrary, he doesn't have the organizational clout to make that call.
what Uber said  
JonC : 10/9/2017 8:55 am : link
jobs and careers will be at stake, they're unlikely to give Webb a test drive anytime soon.

Remember they see him every day, they'll know when it might be time to give him a shot, but then they have to navigate handling Eli, whom won the franchise two championships.

More likely they draft a QB high next April and then things begin to heat up.
RE: what Uber said  
NorwoodWideRight : 10/9/2017 8:59 am : link
In comment 13638496 JonC said:
Quote:
jobs and careers will be at stake, they're unlikely to give Webb a test drive anytime soon.

Remember they see him every day, they'll know when it might be time to give him a shot, but then they have to navigate handling Eli, whom won the franchise two championships.

More likely they draft a QB high next April and then things begin to heat up.


There is no guarantee that this is going to happen, but if the Giants blow it up, Reese gone, Mcadoo gone, Spagnoulo gone, I'd just prefer to rebuild. Clean the chalkboard and start over with a Coach who's going to groom the new QB of this club. Allowing this to linger, with missing personnel due to injury, a shitty line, etc. is just prolonging the inevitable.
After the bye  
Thegratefulhead : 10/9/2017 9:00 am : link
Start Webb after the bye. I have been will always be a loyal supporter of Eli and insist he belongs in the hall of fame. The Giants are not losing because of Eli. They have a perfect excuse to tank. Bad team and crazy injuries. It is reasonable they look at their young QB. Eli would win a couple more games over Webb and worsen the draft picks this team desperately needs. If webb show promise we could trade down.
Agree it's unlikely to happen  
JonC : 10/9/2017 9:01 am : link
and even if it does, figure Eli will still survive the carnage for the duration of his contract. As helter skelter as he can be, I just don't see them moving on from him.
They're not benching Eli  
B in ALB : 10/9/2017 9:04 am : link
In favor of a rookie 3rd round QB playing behind this OL and with no running game or receivers. Stop.
Jon  
ryanmkeane : 10/9/2017 9:05 am : link
do you see Giants brass liking Rosen or Darnold better?
RE: They're not benching Eli  
Britt in VA : 10/9/2017 9:11 am : link
In comment 13638512 B in ALB said:
Quote:
In favor of a rookie 3rd round QB playing behind this OL and with no running game or receivers. Stop.


It's pretty easy and clear to see, not sure why it's so hard for some people to comprehend.
would lean Darnold at this point in time  
JonC : 10/9/2017 9:11 am : link
Rosen has party boy issues that are following him around.
I think about  
mdthedream : 10/9/2017 9:13 am : link
week 10 if we are playing really bad we need to know what this kid is seeing we might be looking at drafting a QB. I do not want to hear we passed on drafting a QB because we think Webb has a future. I say we see what he has before that happens. A lot of the rookies QBs are playing well so its not a big deal to send him out there.
Eli plays.......  
BillKo : 10/9/2017 9:15 am : link
unless he is unable to play.

Guaranteed, the Giants are not playing Webb whether the OL improves or WR's get healthy.

Now, play Webb late in games where a game is out of hand either way......sure.

Eli Manning is the QB of the Giants, and will play. There are no exceptions.
The more important thing that needs to be thought about....  
Britt in VA : 10/9/2017 9:16 am : link
is WHO is picking the next QB in April.

Because it better not be Reese and McAdoo.
Webb should get at least one start  
jeff57 : 10/9/2017 9:17 am : link
.
RE: The more important thing that needs to be thought about....  
The_Boss : 10/9/2017 9:17 am : link
In comment 13638536 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
is WHO is picking the next QB in April.

Because it better not be Reese and McAdoo.


Bingo.

Yeah  
feelflows : 10/9/2017 9:18 am : link
Hey...Webb...in the .002 seconds you have to throw, try to see if Rudolph is open.

Seems like a fair evaluation.
Are people afraid that if Webb gets time  
NYSports1 : 10/9/2017 9:18 am : link
with no receivers and this suppose garbage line and has success that it will hurt their whole argument that is the GM fault and the fault of the HC
RE: Are people afraid that if Webb gets time  
Britt in VA : 10/9/2017 9:20 am : link
In comment 13638551 NYSports1 said:
Quote:
with no receivers and this suppose garbage line and has success that it will hurt their whole argument that is the GM fault and the fault of the HC


There is no argument at this point. That argument is now settled.
RE: Are people afraid that if Webb gets time  
feelflows : 10/9/2017 9:25 am : link
In comment 13638551 NYSports1 said:
Quote:
with no receivers and this suppose garbage line and has success that it will hurt their whole argument that is the GM fault and the fault of the HC


YouTube David Carr's rookie year in Houston. No line or receivers. The rest of his career he was ruined with happy feet.

Is that really a smart situation to put a kid in? If Eli gets hurt, sign a vet scrub.
RE: RE: Are people afraid that if Webb gets time  
FStubbs : 10/9/2017 9:30 am : link
In comment 13638569 feelflows said:
Quote:
In comment 13638551 NYSports1 said:


Quote:


with no receivers and this suppose garbage line and has success that it will hurt their whole argument that is the GM fault and the fault of the HC



YouTube David Carr's rookie year in Houston. No line or receivers. The rest of his career he was ruined with happy feet.

Is that really a smart situation to put a kid in? If Eli gets hurt, sign a vet scrub.


We already have Geno Smith on the roster.
if Eli gets injured  
JonC : 10/9/2017 9:31 am : link
it will likely be Geno first man up.
RE: Yeah  
ryanmkeane : 10/9/2017 9:37 am : link
In comment 13638550 feelflows said:
Quote:
Hey...Webb...in the .002 seconds you have to throw, try to see if Rudolph is open.

Seems like a fair evaluation.

OK that was funny
Eli Can Still Start Every Game  
Jeffrey : 10/9/2017 9:40 am : link
Allowing Webb to play some does not mean sitting Eli. Eli can start every game as a reward for his dedication. Yet, no one can deny the likelihood of some major blowouts in the next 11 games. At that point why does Eli have to play every minute of a game that is out of reach?

Eli has to understand that he is not the future of this team and as the loyal player he has always been should not begrudge the team for wanting to see what they have in Webb. Giving up playing time in a 4th quarter blowout is not a major concession to ask.
Eli's consecutive start streak is more at risk from the OL  
dpinzow : 10/9/2017 9:52 am : link
than Davis Webb. They can see Webb for a series or two during the games while Eli starts and plays the vast majority of the snaps
RE: Do we really think Webb is going to amount to anything?  
Sean : 10/9/2017 10:13 am : link
In comment 13638445 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Personally, I don't. I mean, we're going to bench Eli and throw away the streak he's worked on for 14 years for an unknown in Webb, who odds are is another Nassib? Secondly, how in the world would we even be able to evaluate Webb behind our shitshow o-line, next to no running game, and our soon to be journeyman WR core in McAdoo's boring predictable offense? Even if we could evaluate the guy, he could have all the talent in the world and he'll be David Carr by the end of the season.

Eli has two years left on his contract. You pick a QB high and you let him sit and learn behind a true Pro who can teach/mentor him, and who better to do that than Eli? Rogers sat behind Favre for what? 3 years?


This is ideal. Eli still has some juice left anyway.
What would we be proving by putting Webb in at this point anyway  
jcn56 : 10/9/2017 10:17 am : link
That anyone can get killed behind a bad OL after their receivers all got injured? Pretty sure we don't need to prove that.

The likely scenario is clear as day - Giants draft a QB high, he rides the bench for a couple of seasons as Eli winds down the clock. If Webb turns out to be anything more than a clipboard holder, you trade him.
some of you guys don't pay any attention to the NFL  
djm : 10/9/2017 10:18 am : link
guys like Eli don't sit. Ever. Even if the season is lost at 0-13--the starting QB with pelts on his wall NEVER EVER SITS. NEVER.

Look it up. Check every single tanking team in NFL history over the last 30 years. If that team had a legit QB, the QB didn't sit. Ever. Think Drew Brees. Think Eli Manning back in 2013 or 2014 or 2015. Think Brett Favre some seasons where the Pack struggled. Think Troy Aikman in the early 2000s. On and on and on.

The franchise QB won't be benched. Don't like it? Ask yourself why it virtually never happens.
RE: Reese sucks!  
Section131 : 10/9/2017 10:39 am : link
In comment 13638460 bluepepper said:
Quote:
Reese can't evaluate talent!

His picks in mid round are awful!

Also: decent chance Reese nabbed a franchise QB in the 3rd round of a QB poor draft.

C'mon folks, a little consistency please.


1) McAdoo wanted a QB so Reese appeased his HC
2) Are you paying attention to this QB class? It's pretty good!
..  
Named Later : 10/9/2017 10:42 am : link
A Top 5 Pick in next year's Draft is a valuable commodity. It would be nice to see what Webb can do in an actual game -- so we know whether to draft a big QB, or trade for a boatload of high Picks.

Could Eli play the 1st Quarter while Webb watches what the Defense is showing, and then Webb plays the rest of the game ??
Would the 1st Quarter be enough to keep Eli's streak alive ??
The last year of these big Contracts is typically "paper money" and the possibility of cutting without major Cap Hit is always there.

Of course, there's no guarantee that the Staff and Scouts draft the right QB or use the boatload of Picks correctly.
Here's a helpful reminder...  
Mike from Ohio : 10/9/2017 10:52 am : link
when you think about the future of the QB position for the New York Giants, don't pay much attention to Davis Webb. He is not starting anytime soon, even if Eli is hurt, and he will not be a factor when the Giants are on the clock in April considering a QB.

There is no need to see what we have in Davis Webb. He is a 3rd round pick, no the heir apparent.
RE: Here's a helpful reminder...  
fivehead : 10/9/2017 11:00 am : link
In comment 13638808 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:

There is no need to see what we have in Davis Webb. He is a 3rd round pick, no the heir apparent.


Then why waste a draft pick on him?
RE: RE: Here's a helpful reminder...  
Mike from Ohio : 10/9/2017 11:45 am : link
In comment 13638839 fivehead said:
Quote:
In comment 13638808 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:



There is no need to see what we have in Davis Webb. He is a 3rd round pick, no the heir apparent.



Then why waste a draft pick on him?


Because he was meant to be a quality backup for Eli for the next 2-3 years, and potentially take over if he played well enough. You can invest a 3rd rounder in that. But if you need to find your next franchise QB, you need to do that at the top of the first round.
We need to know  
Thegratefulhead : 10/9/2017 3:30 pm : link
I have been a fan of Eli Manning. He has made a few of the most clutch throws I have ever seen a QB make in the biggest games of his career. He is fearless. See what Bill Parcells said about him after the NFC championship game against the 49ers. If you do not know what I am talking about, you really do not understand how good a QB Eli has been. I think he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

That said, after the bye week, even if the Giants are not 0-7(at Denver at home Seattle) I think they should start Webb for the rest of the season. The Giants are extremely likely to have a very high pick. There are franchise QBs in next yearsí draft but if Webb shows promise, trading back could net them the picks, this team without depth, desperately needs(See recent trades to move up and get QBs). They canít gamble, they need to know what they have in Webb. The future of the franchise is greater than Eliís streak.
I know that is not popular and you cannot find a history of teams sitting a healthy franchise QB under contract. Most teams would have started Bledsoe over Brady once healthy. Sometimes you have to break with convention. This is the time. If Webb shows growth, the ability to make quick decisions and maybe most importantly., the character to command the huddle it will change our approach to next yearsí vital draft to the future of this franchise.
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