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Barnwell: Rebuild, or make a 2018 run? What's next?

Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/9/2017 9:37 am
Good article.
Rebuild, or make a 2018 run? What's next for 0-5 Giants - ( New Window )
.......  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 10/9/2017 9:41 am : link
What would it take to make a run next season?

Moving Flowers to G or RT and finding 4 new starters on the o-line.

Finding a replacement for Brandon Marshall

Finding another running back

Finding at least 2 new LBers

All this with 2 DE's eating up 20% of the cap and not producing on the field.

It would be a tall order to make a run in 2018.
sadly a very accurate portrayal. Reese should never have been allowed  
Victor in CT : 10/9/2017 9:42 am : link
to stay on.
He could have saved some space and just wrote:  
mikeinbloomfield : 10/9/2017 9:46 am : link
"The writing was on the wall last year." The Giants got extremely lucky last year in injuries and close games. Now they're not so lucky.

He does bring up bringing back Victor Cruz, which is interesting. Not that he'll help in any way, but it would be fun to cheer for him again.
RE: sadly a very accurate portrayal. Reese should never have been allowed  
jeff57 : 10/9/2017 9:47 am : link
In comment 13638607 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
to stay on.


Drafting disaster. As he put it.
If the Giants have a top-3 pick or if they're going to trade up  
NorwoodWideRight : 10/9/2017 9:48 am : link
for a franchise QB, I'd just prefer that they rebuild. McAdoo is tied to Reese. You're not going to saddle a new GM with a coach so you need to get rid of both at the same time. New GM, new coach, new QB of the future.

Unfortunately, knowing the Giants, this strategy makes too much sense. The timing on this really sucks.
$10 million saved against the cap  
jeff57 : 10/9/2017 9:48 am : link
If Manning is not on the roster next year.
signing Cruz might be difficult....  
BillKo : 10/9/2017 9:48 am : link
if no one is going to IR. You'd have to release someone.

Hopefully we get an update on Marshall/Shepp today.

Really good article....basically the Giants have been the same team since 2015. A team that plays on the ledge....lots of close games where you have to make plays to win.

We really haven't blown out a team since....when???
2016 must have given the hierarchy a false sense of what the team is  
The_Boss : 10/9/2017 9:48 am : link
There are holes all over the roster still:
RB, multiple spots along the OL, WR, DT, LB, FS, CB depth, and QB long term.

I don't think rebuild is the term because there are a good number of good players already. I think, assuming the right people are making the roster shaping decisions and coaching the team, this team can compete next year in the division. As for Super Bowls? They appear to be 2-3 years away, especially if they are breaking in a new QB in a year or 2.
Agree with his diagnosis  
jeff57 : 10/9/2017 9:49 am : link
But not his cure. Save for last year, this has been a mediocre team for six seasons. Time to clean house.
RE: If the Giants have a top-3 pick or if they're going to trade up  
dpinzow : 10/9/2017 9:53 am : link
In comment 13638619 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
for a franchise QB, I'd just prefer that they rebuild. McAdoo is tied to Reese. You're not going to saddle a new GM with a coach so you need to get rid of both at the same time. New GM, new coach, new QB of the future.

Unfortunately, knowing the Giants, this strategy makes too much sense. The timing on this really sucks.


Absolutely...you can't fire Reese without firing McAdoo because no quality GM is going to take the job with a coach tied to their hip from the outset by ownership (see John Idzik/Rex Ryan, circa 2013)
Good article  
hitdog42 : 10/9/2017 9:56 am : link
The team needs a new gm and coaching staff-

2 offensive linemen... a linebacker that can cover and another corner.

The talent is not bad on the roster but the weaknesses are bad and the coaching staff is overmatched, and gm should go as this team needs fresh eyes to evaluate

Rebuild  
spike : 10/9/2017 9:59 am : link
There is nothing here on offense except Engram and a recovering OBJ. Eli will be gone by the time they are competitive again.

Rebuild the lines first
The metrics are interesting  
JonC : 10/9/2017 10:03 am : link
and they reinforce the instinct they are not consistently doing a very good job of self-scouting ... players, coaches, scouting, drafting, etc.

No rebuild in 2018, it does not compute.
Here you go -this is why he has to be fired  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 10/9/2017 10:03 am : link
Quote:
First, he pursued a bevy of midtier free agents with limited success, paying premiums to add replacement-level players such as Dwayne Harris, Rashad Jennings and J.T. Thomas to fill spots smarter teams would occupy with draft picks.


Boom. Then there's the follow-up:

Quote:
The spending also has incurred an enormous opportunity cost in terms of improving the weaker spots in the Giants' lineup. The Giants did not have the financial wiggle room to target any of the veterans available in free agency this season along the offensive line, limiting them to a Chargers castoff in D.J. Fluker. They sat out the free-agent market at running back and came back with 2016 fifth-round pick Paul Perkins, who hasn't shown much aptitude to be an NFL starter, as was the case with predecessor Andre Williams, a fourth-round pick in 2014. .... Their linebackers remain a mix of overmatched special-teams players and inexperienced late-round selections or undrafted guys.
RE: 2016 must have given the hierarchy a false sense of what the team is  
BillKo : 10/9/2017 10:04 am : link
In comment 13638623 The_Boss said:
Quote:
There are holes all over the roster still:
RB, multiple spots along the OL, WR, DT, LB, FS, CB depth, and QB long term.

I don't think rebuild is the term because there are a good number of good players already. I think, assuming the right people are making the roster shaping decisions and coaching the team, this team can compete next year in the division. As for Super Bowls? They appear to be 2-3 years away, especially if they are breaking in a new QB in a year or 2.


Of course, all those positions where holes exist aren't going to be filled. All teams have issues, it's just who can cover them up enough.

Our major issue is OL and a LB that has a motor, someone that just keeps bringing it.

The team can easily compete again in 2018....teams go from worst to first (or close) quite commonly in a league where there's not a huge difference between most teams.

The real key to it all, though, is coaching...in a league this close, your coach can provide a huge advantage.
Rebuild doesn't have to mean a NY Jets-type  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/9/2017 10:06 am : link
stripping of a team's roster. But it does mean no longer making moves to fit Eli Manning's timeline. It means using a likely high pick on a QB (I don't see how they win more than 4 games) and focusing draft resources and available free agent money (within reason) on OL, DL, LB, and RB... areas that have been ignored for too long.


As far as the expectations for this team, no one could've foreseen the defense falling off to THIS level. Who would've expected that Brad Wing, whose punting was crucial in games like Detroit and Chicago, would suddenly be making kicks that were now crucial to losing games? Was it foolish to expect a infinitesimal improvement by the offensive line and skill position players to offset any drop-offs in the areas I already mentioned? I don't think so. And to top it all off, the team's best player will play a grand total of 3+ games.
One thing left out  
jvm52106 : 10/9/2017 10:13 am : link
that also plays a HUGE role in the issues we have and that is matching players/talent to scheme.

Both Drafting and signing FA's seem to have this issue. Drafting Clint Sintim when he pegged as a 3-4 backer at best adn asking him to play in a 4-3 with coverage responsibilities. David Wilson as a RB not known as a pass catcher or blocker, playing for a coach who won't play rookies easily and will not play them much in the backfield if they can't block! TE's who can't block and asking them to ummm, block!

We have offensive linemen with size but play a passive , run draw happy style.

Look at the Patriots.. They sign and draft guys to fit what they do.. They don't get guys with one set of skills and force them to do something completely opposite.

You have to know what you do, want to do and can do and get guys who fit that picture... We do not do that...
Pretty good summation  
Kyle in NY : 10/9/2017 10:17 am : link
Quote:
The biggest lesson from the Giants' fall from grace is simple: If you're a coach or an executive, be honest with yourself when you self-evaluate your team. If the metrics disagree about your team, as is the case with these Giants, you might want to re-evaluate whether you're actually as good as your record says you are. The most common mistake fans make in evaluating their teams before the season is to count on everything that went right a year ago to stay right while all the problems get fixed. Organizations make the same mistakes sometimes, too.


The cap number suggests though that Eli has one more year here. I don't trust this GM and coach to get it right though.
great article.  
TexasGmenFan : 10/9/2017 10:17 am : link
you beat me to the punch on posting it, ha.
here's the one sentence that should sum it up:  
TexasGmenFan : 10/9/2017 10:20 am : link
Quote:
Reese hasn't shown much aptitude for handling the draft.


the end. the table they show for home-grown players on playoff teams last year is as damning as it gets.
Why  
Painless62 : 10/9/2017 10:23 am : link
Why would you give the keys to this draft to someone who has proven incompetent . They should really see who they can trade shortly who would be worth both draft picks and cap space. Of course that would mean actually doing something smart. This team has become stupid. Probably your best piece to trade would be Eli. Maybe the team acquiring him would take some dead weight off our hands like , I dunno, JPP? Might as well see what we have in Webb. I do understand being cautious as you can’t properly evaluate him and don’t want to ruin him by playing him with the crap offense that would surround him .
I honestly don't think we'll see a TON of radical changes  
SGMen : 10/9/2017 10:29 am : link
Lets say we have a top 3 pick, and my gut tells me we will with OBJ and D. Harris likely out for the rest of the year.

You cut who doesn't fit the future and sign UFA's who can plug holes as best as you can.

Personally, I'd trade Eli if you could find a team desperate enough for a starting caliber QB and with the cap room to take on his contract. Eli can still play this game.

We'll know more come the bye week cause we'll be 0 - 7 and talk of the future will be the #1 topic for writers.
RE: I honestly don't think we'll see a TON of radical changes  
gidiefor : Mod : 10/9/2017 10:30 am : link
In comment 13638740 SGMen said:
Quote:
Lets say we have a top 3 pick, and my gut tells me we will with OBJ and D. Harris likely out for the rest of the year.

You cut who doesn't fit the future and sign UFA's who can plug holes as best as you can.

Personally, I'd trade Eli if you could find a team desperate enough for a starting caliber QB and with the cap room to take on his contract. Eli can still play this game.

We'll know more come the bye week cause we'll be 0 - 7 and talk of the future will be the #1 topic for writers.


Eli has a No Trade Clause in his contract
RE: I honestly don't think we'll see a TON of radical changes  
The_Boss : 10/9/2017 10:31 am : link
In comment 13638740 SGMen said:
Quote:
Lets say we have a top 3 pick, and my gut tells me we will with OBJ and D. Harris likely out for the rest of the year.

You cut who doesn't fit the future and sign UFA's who can plug holes as best as you can.

Personally, I'd trade Eli if you could find a team desperate enough for a starting caliber QB and with the cap room to take on his contract. Eli can still play this game.

We'll know more come the bye week cause we'll be 0 - 7 and talk of the future will be the #1 topic for writers.


I for one cannot wait to see Jerry Reese stammer and stutter his way through a painful presser while the media is (hopefully and rightfully) lighting his ass up.
RE: I honestly don't think we'll see a TON of radical changes  
B in ALB : 10/9/2017 10:33 am : link
In comment 13638740 SGMen said:
Quote:
Lets say we have a top 3 pick, and my gut tells me we will with OBJ and D. Harris likely out for the rest of the year.

You cut who doesn't fit the future and sign UFA's who can plug holes as best as you can.

Personally, I'd trade Eli if you could find a team desperate enough for a starting caliber QB and with the cap room to take on his contract. Eli can still play this game.

We'll know more come the bye week cause we'll be 0 - 7 and talk of the future will be the #1 topic for writers.


How are you trading a guy with a NTC? If you can figure that out let us know please.
I know it would never happen....  
Britt in VA : 10/9/2017 10:33 am : link
but I'd fire Reese and McAdoo heading into the bye, promote Spagnuolo to interim head coach, give the offense completely to Sullivan, and get all my ducks in a row to finding my new coach and GM and having a plan ready for the 1st of January, allowing as much time as possible to plan and prepare for our Top 5 pick.
The mid tier  
ryanmkeane : 10/9/2017 10:35 am : link
free agent thing is right on point. Fucking disaster to pay the amount of money we are to below average players.
A really great article  
Spyder : 10/9/2017 10:38 am : link
but his conclusion is off, even though he is right that this is the Giants way:

Quote:
As much as Giants fans might be thirsty for blood at the moment, the Mara family simply doesn't run the organization in a reactionary way. Neither Reese nor McAdoo are directly on the hot seat, but if they can't make it back to the playoffs in 2018, they'll have spent a lot of money over the past several seasons without finding a successful young quarterback or winning a playoff game. That would be the time to make a move.


He just made the most excellent case for firing Reese:

Quote:
Giants general manager Jerry Reese simply didn't do a good enough job of drafting talent from 2008 to 2013.


Then he concludes that the Giants won't fire Reese because that would be "reactionary"?

2017 and this very article proves that 2016 was an illusion. The Giants since their their last SB in 2011 have been a bad team. And worst of all, Reese and co. have wasted Eli's prime years, an absolute crime.

The Giants have to go beyond cleaning house and getting rid of Reese and McAdoo. Tisch has to put his foot down and demand that Chris Mara be removed from his post as Senior VP of Player Evaluation because clearly his title is oxymoronic under reaction to his performance.
RE: I know it would never happen....  
Reb8thVA : 10/9/2017 10:40 am : link
In comment 13638760 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
but I'd fire Reese and McAdoo heading into the bye, promote Spagnuolo to interim head coach, give the offense completely to Sullivan, and get all my ducks in a row to finding my new coach and GM and having a plan ready for the 1st of January, allowing as much time as possible to plan and prepare for our Top 5 pick.


I would do the same thing. Get the organization positioned to hit the ground running for the off-season. It will also signal to some of the underperforming players that you are on notice.
RE: RE: I know it would never happen....  
BillKo : 10/9/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13638783 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
In comment 13638760 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


but I'd fire Reese and McAdoo heading into the bye, promote Spagnuolo to interim head coach, give the offense completely to Sullivan, and get all my ducks in a row to finding my new coach and GM and having a plan ready for the 1st of January, allowing as much time as possible to plan and prepare for our Top 5 pick.



I would do the same thing. Get the organization positioned to hit the ground running for the off-season. It will also signal to some of the underperforming players that you are on notice.


LOL...well that certainly would make watching the rest of the year interesting!!!!
Rebuild  
Les in TO : 10/9/2017 10:45 am : link
Eli is a liability at this stage Time to see what we've got in Webb
Oh and by the way....  
Reb8thVA : 10/9/2017 10:45 am : link
This article reinforces the same arguments that many of us have been making since 2013 that the FO has performed miserably and the philosophies that have governed their decision-making and talent acquisition are flawed. We were drowned out by the usual chorus of "he organization knows more than you do." And that may be correct but it sure doesn't make them successful.
RE: RE: I know it would never happen....  
Brown Recluse : 10/9/2017 10:48 am : link
In comment 13638783 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
In comment 13638760 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


but I'd fire Reese and McAdoo heading into the bye, promote Spagnuolo to interim head coach, give the offense completely to Sullivan, and get all my ducks in a row to finding my new coach and GM and having a plan ready for the 1st of January, allowing as much time as possible to plan and prepare for our Top 5 pick.



I would do the same thing. Get the organization positioned to hit the ground running for the off-season. It will also signal to some of the underperforming players that you are on notice.


I would be fine for that as well, but this is part of the Giants' problem. They are not proactive or aggressive when it comes to things like this. They'll let McAdoo finish out the season "out of respect" and then IF they fire him, it'll be in the offseason.

This team is a mess.
RE: RE: sadly a very accurate portrayal. Reese should never have been allowed  
Carson53 : 10/9/2017 10:51 am : link
In comment 13638615 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 13638607 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


to stay on.



Drafting disaster. As he put it.


The biggest issue is especially your first & 2nd Rd picks,
are suppose to be your core players moving forward after
their rookie contracts. Here, most often, they are gone, for
a variety of reasons. At DT, they just keep drafting replacements in the 2nd Rd, that is their MO at that position.
His 3rd round history has been abysmal.
The Chiefs starting RB is a rookie 3rd Rd. pick.
The Cowboys have a starting rookie corner as a 3rd Rd. pick.
Those are two examples I noticed yesterday, just saying.
RE: RE: sadly a very accurate portrayal. Reese should never have been allowed  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/9/2017 10:57 am : link
In comment 13638615 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 13638607 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


to stay on.



Drafting disaster. As he put it.


Also a FA signing disaster for OL and LBs.
RE: Oh and by the way....  
Carson53 : 10/9/2017 10:58 am : link
In comment 13638794 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
This article reinforces the same arguments that many of us have been making since 2013 that the FO has performed miserably and the philosophies that have governed their decision-making and talent acquisition are flawed. We were drowned out by the usual chorus of "he organization knows more than you do." And that may be correct but it sure doesn't make them successful.
.

Yeah, but somebody was trying to tell me about 'stability'
the other day, how's that working out?
As I said the other day, 'stability' around here is also
a synonym for stubbornness too.
They are resistant to change around here.
Wow...  
M.S. : 10/9/2017 11:00 am : link

...very impressive, well-researched article!
RE: RE: I honestly don't think we'll see a TON of radical changes  
FStubbs : 10/9/2017 11:07 am : link
In comment 13638759 B in ALB said:
Quote:
In comment 13638740 SGMen said:


Quote:


Lets say we have a top 3 pick, and my gut tells me we will with OBJ and D. Harris likely out for the rest of the year.

You cut who doesn't fit the future and sign UFA's who can plug holes as best as you can.

Personally, I'd trade Eli if you could find a team desperate enough for a starting caliber QB and with the cap room to take on his contract. Eli can still play this game.

We'll know more come the bye week cause we'll be 0 - 7 and talk of the future will be the #1 topic for writers.



How are you trading a guy with a NTC? If you can figure that out let us know please.


Get him to waive it. Why would Eli want to stay?
Why build the case of  
rocco8112 : 10/9/2017 11:08 am : link
how much Reese stinks, than state at the end it is reactionary to fire him? Good read overall, and sadly accurate.

The Giants are at a very important time in the organization's history. Decisions here going forward will have major long term impacts, why would any sane owner allow Reese to make all the major decisions coming up when he has proven unequivocally he can not build a sustainable competitive roster.

It is more than overdue for a change at GM, the next GM should have a clear football philosophy about the vision he has for the football that will be played on the field. He should be able to select the coach to carry out this vision.

Both McAdoo and Reese should be terminated at seasons end.
Drafting  
Bernie : 10/9/2017 11:09 am : link
This is the fundamental problem with this team. Lack of ability to identify talent. Reese and staff get so caught up in "upside", they overlook actual college production. Every expert questioned Flowers and his ability, but the Giants believed they could "coach him up". On the thread for the Tampa preview article I made the same point Barnwell makes about the foundation of any team being 3 year players and the fact the Giants have very few from their own drafts. Forget everything else. Fix that problem and the Giants will be back on the track to being a consistently competitive team.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/9/2017 11:10 am : link
Please do not try to "make a run" again next year. It would be a huge mistake.
RE: .  
hitdog42 : 10/9/2017 11:15 am : link
In comment 13638862 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Please do not try to "make a run" again next year. It would be a huge mistake.


Team can address its own issues and still be solid next year

Get 2 new OL and resign Pugh... and the team is already good enough to compete with anyone really. New leadership as well — and none of that is jeoparsizing rebuilding—-
Carson53 : 10/4/2017 7:27  
Carson53 : 10/9/2017 11:25 am : link
I believe this year
will be 6 out of 8 years of not making the playoffs.
That also includes 4 years in a row!
Still he keeps his job, I have said it before, he should
have left the same time as Coughlin, a clean slate
so to speak. I don't want to hear the bullcrap,
about getting to pick your own coach.
With this organization, Mara has a
hell of a lot more to do with picking the HC then a
Jerry Reese. Also, they thought they were better than they
were after winning the SB the last time, and kept some players around. After last year, he thought this O Line would improve, what a lack of knowledge of evaluating your OWN talent on the team, let alone possible free agents.
He brings back John Friggin Jerry, like really?
What's that old saying, 'those who don't learn from their mistakes, are doomed to repeat them'...Classic case here!


Excluding talking about the draft (which I felt was obvious), not much different than Barnwell's post.
He said not to fire Reese, I obviously don't concur.
So for those who get a chubber calling me gramps,
I guess gramps knows what he is talking about...
RE: .  
Reb8thVA : 10/9/2017 11:26 am : link
In comment 13638862 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Please do not try to "make a run" again next year. It would be a huge mistake.


Fortunately, the fixes the Giants desperately need are the type that are not necessarily a one year fix. Whoever is the QB of the future is going to need a stable OL and a productive RB. How many years now have we lacked a LB who can cover a TE?
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 10/9/2017 11:30 am : link
In comment 13638877 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
In comment 13638862 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Please do not try to "make a run" again next year. It would be a huge mistake.



Team can address its own issues and still be solid next year

Get 2 new OL and resign Pugh... and the team is already good enough to compete with anyone really. New leadership as well — and none of that is jeoparsizing rebuilding—-


It feels like this is what we've been trying to do for about 5 years now - I'm just not sure it's the right solution.

I'm not necessarily advocating stripping down the entire roster, I think there are pieces here we should hang onto, but I think they need to be realistic and change their approach a bit.

I just don't want to see them try another half-assed "retooling" and then sell us on another team that is supposed to make a Super Bowl run.

Something just feels rotten about this team and I have a feeling some bigger changes are going to be needed to get this thing back on the right track.
I'm not sure a complete rebuild is possible  
Go Terps : 10/9/2017 11:33 am : link
The Giants are 2 years removed from spending $200 million on one side of the ball, with only two of those players (Snacks and Jenkins) even being close to worth the contracts.
Fans  
ryanmkeane : 10/9/2017 11:38 am : link
forget there are multiple examples year over year of teams who have a shit year for many reasons (injuries, poor play, coaching) and bounce back to the playoffs the next, with just a few fixes. Cowboys, Panthers did this recently.
It's happening to us now  
ryanmkeane : 10/9/2017 11:40 am : link
so it sucks. But, there's light at the end of the tunnel. Especially with 2 very high draft picks and a talented roster.
That article is a complete indictment against Reese keeping his job  
montanagiant : 10/9/2017 11:47 am : link
Articulated well with irrefutable proof of his failure
The issue with rebuilding  
an_idol_mind : 10/9/2017 11:55 am : link
is that doing so successfully requires a good front office. The Giants haven't been good at evaluating or acquiring talent for a while now. You can give them the #1 overall pick, but it won't matter if they don't figure out how to draft good players again.
I don’t get it...  
trueblueinpw : 10/9/2017 12:02 pm : link
This article is a long scathing indictment of Reese’s mistakes. Then, after presenting all of Reese’s miscues Barnwell writes that Reese and McAdoo should be given another shot next year. The Giants are the worst team in the NFL after 5 games. Why in the world would any plans for the Giants future include Jerry Reese?

Also, McAdoo is barely mentioned in the article. But McAdoo’s cluelessness as both an O-co and HC are as much an indictment of Reese’s failure as the poor drafts and poor FA signings.

Enough is enough. Reese was allowed to fire Coughlin and bring in his own HC. The drafts haven’t been good. That’s on Reese. The coach Reese brought in to replace TC is a supposed offensive coach who delivered last years historically pathetic offense and is now on course to deliver an even worse offense this year. Reese needs to be fired.
RE: RE: RE: I honestly don't think we'll see a TON of radical changes  
Diver_Down : 10/9/2017 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13638854 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 13638759 B in ALB said:


Quote:


In comment 13638740 SGMen said:


Quote:


Lets say we have a top 3 pick, and my gut tells me we will with OBJ and D. Harris likely out for the rest of the year.

You cut who doesn't fit the future and sign UFA's who can plug holes as best as you can.

Personally, I'd trade Eli if you could find a team desperate enough for a starting caliber QB and with the cap room to take on his contract. Eli can still play this game.

We'll know more come the bye week cause we'll be 0 - 7 and talk of the future will be the #1 topic for writers.



How are you trading a guy with a NTC? If you can figure that out let us know please.



Get him to waive it. Why would Eli want to stay?


What benefit does it serve Eli to waive the NTC? His salary for next year is $10.5 MM and $11.5 MM the following year. He can just stand firm and the roster bonus will force the Giants decison. After the 3rd day of the league year, the Giants will pay $5 MM roster bonus. If Eli is released, he gets to choose where he goes and can sign a new contract. The Giants can designate him as a June 1st cut and spread out the cap hit over 2 years. But to orchestrate a trade, a team must be willing to give up a pick and have Eli agree to waive the NTC while accepting a salary that is below market rate for a 2x SB MVP all before the 3rd day of the league year.
What I would do  
HBart : 10/9/2017 1:05 pm : link
I'd start splitting snaps in practice this week to get Webb ready to play by the bye. After the bye I'd start him and let Eli mentor and rest. It wouldn't work with some QBs but Eli is the kind of guy who you could do that with....

With that, I'd also start going to a "we will run the ball" philosophy. We're going to lose anyway - it doesn't really matter by how much and running the ball will let us evaluate our backs to see if any of them can create plays and run time off the clock so the games are shorter.

You have to decide what your OL will look like next year and to me that means putting Flowers wherever you think he belongs long term. And not that much else other than deciding who is most likely to deserve be on the roster next year.

Outside that, nothing to do but sit back, lose, and plan for the draft. If all works out well we have a top 5 pick which we can then - best case scenario - parlay into 2 #1s and maybe a 3 if it looks like Webb can be the man or we have to take a QB and that draft strategy will depend.
I would not put Webb behind this line  
allstarjim : 10/9/2017 1:36 pm : link
To be David Carr'ed.

And he won't even have OBJ to benefit from.

Eli is the starter, he plays. You don't destroy a young player's confidence by setting him up to fail.
RE: I would not put Webb behind this line  
allstarjim : 10/9/2017 1:37 pm : link
In comment 13639206 allstarjim said:
Quote:
To be David Carr'ed.

And he won't even have OBJ to benefit from.

Eli is the starter, he plays. You don't destroy a young player's confidence by setting him up to fail.


Or a legitimate running game.
RE: One thing left out  
Justlurking : 10/9/2017 2:39 pm : link
In comment 13638689 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
that also plays a HUGE role in the issues we have and that is matching players/talent to scheme.

Both Drafting and signing FA's seem to have this issue. Drafting Clint Sintim when he pegged as a 3-4 backer at best adn asking him to play in a 4-3 with coverage responsibilities. David Wilson as a RB not known as a pass catcher or blocker, playing for a coach who won't play rookies easily and will not play them much in the backfield if they can't block! TE's who can't block and asking them to ummm, block!

We have offensive linemen with size but play a passive , run draw happy style.

Look at the Patriots.. They sign and draft guys to fit what they do.. They don't get guys with one set of skills and force them to do something completely opposite.

You have to know what you do, want to do and can do and get guys who fit that picture... We do not do that...


great post.
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