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If I was in charge, this is what I would do....

Britt in VA : 10/9/2017 10:49 am
I view Reese as a lame duck, and I think I've seen enough from McAdoo to know he's not the guy. I somewhat feel that McAdoo was dealt a bad hand with our offensive line, and in other years I'd give him another year to find out what I had, but our current circumstance of positioning ourselves for a Top 5 pick (possibly even #1 overall pick) changes things. McAdoo is an offensive coach, and I've now seen enough of his offense to know it's not what I want going forward.

I'd fire Reese and McAdoo heading into the bye, promote Spagnuolo to interim head coach, give the offense completely to Sullivan, and get all my ducks in a row to finding my new coach and GM and having a plan ready for the 1st of January, at which time I'd let the rest of the staff go, allowing as much time as possible to plan and prepare for our Top 5 pick.

I'd invest heavily into the Offensive line during Free Agency and draft. I'd draft a Quarterback with the Top pick and let him sit behind Eli until Eli finishes out his contract or retires, which would be ideal for three reasons. One, it allows the offensive line to be fixed. Two, it allows the new Quarterback a chance to be mentored by one of the most professional quarterbacks in the league, and finally, if we have a new coach it gives the rookie two years to learn the new offense. Remember, Rogers sat during McCarthy's first three years, behind Favre.

I honestly think the right Head Coach/GM combo could turn this around in a single offseason, seen it happen before, and we could groom the future QB of the franchise the right way.
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I still don't understand  
NorwoodWideRight : 10/9/2017 11:43 am : link
how you can draft a QB without knowing what you have in Webb.
Mike  
KWALL2 : 10/9/2017 11:44 am : link
At this point, I don't have any outlook for him. He's a talented thrower. I'd like to see him play in the NFL so the team can get more info on what they have. That's it.

If he plays well then you can have a debate on where he fits going forward.
RE: I still don't understand  
Britt in VA : 10/9/2017 11:51 am : link
In comment 13638967 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
how you can draft a QB without knowing what you have in Webb.


My counter is this: What do you think Webb could possibly show you that would prevent you from taking a Quarterback if you had the top pick in the draft.

What do you think you're going to see, best case scenario?
Another good thing about firing Reese and McAdoo....  
Britt in VA : 10/9/2017 11:57 am : link
during the bye week, is that if you are interested in a coach like Cowher or Gruden, you can communicate with them legally as they are not under contract with another team.

If you came to an agreement, you are giving a guy like Cowher a great head start at putting together a coaching staff and plan, with half a season still left to play.
RE: I still don't understand  
bradshaw44 : 10/9/2017 12:03 pm : link
In comment 13638967 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
how you can draft a QB without knowing what you have in Webb.


Webb hasnít proven anything. And canít prove it by the time the draft comes around. If there is another franchise QB in this draft you take him.
Britt, not bad  
idiotsavant : 10/9/2017 12:05 pm : link
a few tweaks:

1. I would not draft a QB yet. One of the reasons we have been in this theme In the first place, has been the reluctance to go for the less hyped positions early, guards, DTs, and so on. Sadly, we need at least one more year on this emphasis prior to grabbing the QB. Then bring in your new QB to fit. See, Dallas, Cowboys.

Trade down or go OL in one.

2. Pioli, Fine idea.

Maybe, or maybe sometimes you need to let someone advance in job title, while being smart and insightful about that, which aspects we may have lacked in the Macadoo grab. Advancement opps may widen your pool. But lets not be naÔve about who does what in the league.

There is a list of people at Falcons (integration of line play in O system having been their thing), you may need a pile of them. Seems more transferrable than Pats people, for whom it seems a wholistic thing, not just a system.

All that said, obviously, Bill B you would take in any capacity.

3. Its a family business. And we are grateful for it.

But sometimes in -any- such, one needs a dose of humility, self depreciation and humor. Mara needs to be ready to fall on his sword if a new GM requires it, fair or not. Possibly younger Maras can get involved and start in the business.

4. I had a temporary position sorting out similar imbroglio, both in management and financial, a real mess,(in a family owned business, non sport related).

What I found was that there were valuable people on the administrative side...people who had been adding lots of value doing de-facto management functions, by necessity, due to the situation.

At times those people can be advanced and brought into actual management as a bridge. I am not saying that the new GM be the current secretary, but stranger things have happened. One needs a broad look and review, you bring the whole group in. Broaden family involvement, they all probably have skin in the game.
Interesting Comments Abound,  
clatterbuck : 10/9/2017 12:28 pm : link
But I just don't get the fascination with Cowher, who seems very happy being "Coach" on TV, who may not have the desire or stamina to get back into it, especially in NY, and had his own issues in Pittsburgh, especially in the playoffs. And if the team is looking at a GM-Coach combo to set the course for the next 10-15 years, Cowher may be to old, and same with John Fox.

And the big question, and I don't presume to know enough to even have an opinion, is there a drop dead, sure thing franchise quarterback in this draft? Do any of the kids in the conversation have a skill set that much better than Davis Webb?

In any case, I don't see Reese and McAdoo surviving this season. It's not that they are losing; the team seems lost, rudderless, unprepared, undisciplined, no mental toughness. I've been a fan for more than 60 years. The current situation is bad, Allie Sherman, John McVea, Bill Arnsparger, the one whose name shall not be mentioned, bad. Didn't see it coming, but it's here.
Pioli is an interesting choice...  
Britt in VA : 10/9/2017 12:28 pm : link
I wonder if he'd consider McDaniels?
RE: I keep seeing  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 10/9/2017 1:08 pm : link
In comment 13638894 Tim in Eternal Blue said:
Quote:
"The Giants don't fire in the season ". "So not the Giants"

The Giants fired Fassel with one game left in the season. One.

Fuck McAdoo.


Tim, this is not accurate. Fassel came to ownership and insisted that he know his status right then and there. They told him he would not be retained and then became public.
RE: ......  
Vanzetti : 10/9/2017 1:44 pm : link
In comment 13638834 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
If they draft a QB and Webb turns into a good player, they can trade him later. Webb's presence shouldn't have any impact on the draft.


This is exactly right. Many teams have had two QBs and then traded one. For example, Montana/Deberg and Rivers/Brees.

Plus, Webb is a longshot
And again  
hitdog42 : 10/9/2017 1:47 pm : link
The downside of seeing what Webb looks like is ...........
....  
Unemployable : 10/9/2017 1:53 pm : link
I wonít be surprised if GM and Head Coach returns. Mara gives his stability excuse, but he is just terrified of change. If they get fired, Mara will no doubt bring in guys who they know, who been with the organization before. They will never give someone total control or bring in a strong personality that will push back.
I can see Webb coming in for Eli possibly  
Simms11 : 10/9/2017 2:01 pm : link
the last few games of the season. But Eli will definitely still be starting.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/9/2017 2:11 pm : link
Webb needs to play at some point this year. I hate that it has come to this because this really isn't Eli's fault (though he is certainly not blameless in all of this) but this type of season is exactly when you need to find out what you have in your younger guys and decide who needs to be a part of your future plans.

It's an opportunity we should seize and utilize while we have it.
RE: I can see Webb coming in for Eli possibly  
Devon : 10/9/2017 2:12 pm : link
In comment 13639254 Simms11 said:
Quote:
the last few games of the season. But Eli will definitely still be starting.


This seems incredibly weak to me.

Just start Webb, if you're going to play him most of the game, put him in the best position to succeed or fail, and if Eli doesn't like it, well, too bad. What's best for him is entirely irrelevant to what is best for the team now. He can deal with it or not, it doesn't really matter anymore.
RE: And again  
bigbluehoya : 10/9/2017 2:17 pm : link
In comment 13639230 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
The downside of seeing what Webb looks like is ...........


Crickets.
Mara is not firing Reese nor Mac  
micky : 10/9/2017 2:21 pm : link
he has pretty much said so as reported.

so if it is changes you're looking for..not happening they want continuity
RE: RE: And again  
Britt in VA : 10/9/2017 2:28 pm : link
In comment 13639297 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
In comment 13639230 hitdog42 said:


Quote:


The downside of seeing what Webb looks like is ...........



Crickets.


It's not crickets, it's been answered several times.

You could argue both points, and both points have been argued, but at this point, it's just going round and round going nowhere.

Pros:

Get to see what the kid could do in live reps

Cons:

Punish our 14 year starter who's never missed a game by making him a healthy scratch and ruining a 14 year streak of consecutive starts for an unknown rookie just because. Do you know how much pain and effort it probably takes to never miss a start in the NFL in 14 years, especially the last five behind this line? Talk about a slap in the face to somebody that has given you everything.

Throwing out an unprepared rookie to the wolves with no line, no run game, and no WR's. Even if the kid has talent, you're likely to ruin his career by making him shell shocked like David Carr.

Getting the evaluation right now does what exactly? A. The people doing the evaluating likely won't be here next year. B. If you have the number one pick in the draft, or at least a high enough pick that you have your choice of the two best QB's in the draft, is your evaluation of Webb this year going to prevent you from taking a QB with the 1st overall pick? If not, then what is the point?
Con #1 isn't a con; it's irrelevant.  
Devon : 10/9/2017 2:41 pm : link
Eli will be pissed and feel disrespected and those bridges will likely be burned for a very long time, but really, so what?

What's good for him no longer matters in terms of building a good football team going forward. His feelings especially don't matter.

Just like players should always put themselves first, even if fans scream about them being greedy or whatever, teams need to be cold and calculating too.
It is relevant.  
Britt in VA : 10/9/2017 2:44 pm : link
Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, it's relevant.
If it's relevant to the team, that's not a good thing.  
Devon : 10/9/2017 2:47 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: And again  
bigbluehoya : 10/9/2017 3:08 pm : link
In comment 13639324 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13639297 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


In comment 13639230 hitdog42 said:


Quote:


The downside of seeing what Webb looks like is ...........



Crickets.



It's not crickets, it's been answered several times.

You could argue both points, and both points have been argued, but at this point, it's just going round and round going nowhere.

Pros:

Get to see what the kid could do in live reps

Cons:

Punish our 14 year starter who's never missed a game by making him a healthy scratch and ruining a 14 year streak of consecutive starts for an unknown rookie just because. Do you know how much pain and effort it probably takes to never miss a start in the NFL in 14 years, especially the last five behind this line? Talk about a slap in the face to somebody that has given you everything.

Throwing out an unprepared rookie to the wolves with no line, no run game, and no WR's. Even if the kid has talent, you're likely to ruin his career by making him shell shocked like David Carr.

Getting the evaluation right now does what exactly? A. The people doing the evaluating likely won't be here next year. B. If you have the number one pick in the draft, or at least a high enough pick that you have your choice of the two best QB's in the draft, is your evaluation of Webb this year going to prevent you from taking a QB with the 1st overall pick? If not, then what is the point?


You should save yourself the trouble of bullshitting the second con and just admit that it's 100% about some Eli emotions that you're having.

I wouldn't advocate breaking the consecutive starts streak just for shits and giggles; let him ride that out if it's important to him. Doesn't mean Webb can't some significant playing time.

Letting the kid see his first live action in the NFL is a step in his development. Generating real NFL game tape is absolutely valuable to the player as well as coaches/FO, whether the current ones stay in place or new ones are brought in.



re: the people doing the eval not being here next year  
giants#1 : 10/9/2017 3:15 pm : link
1. That's a big assumption that Reese and/or McAdoo won't be back. Especially McAdoo who coached them to a postseason berth last season despite the OL mess Reese stuck him with.

2. The replacements would still benefit from NFL tape of Webb.

3. None of us knows what Eli's thinking, especially after the knee to the head yesterday. After years of the FO neglecting the OL, maybe he decides to retire?!?
Britt...What you suggest makes too much sense  
Blue21 : 10/9/2017 4:04 pm : link
therefore it will never happen.
we need to give Webb some playing time  
Jersey55 : 10/9/2017 5:42 pm : link
to find out right now if we need to go high in the next draft for a QB especially since it looks like we will be picking pretty high and a good one should be available to us, I'm just afraid that none of this will happen because the team won't want hurt Eli's feelings.....
The Giants Haven't Fired a GM Since The 70s  
Jim in Tampa : 10/9/2017 6:37 pm : link
And you think they're going to fire JR at mid-season?

LOL!

And you never said who would take over for JR.

If you want the best GM candidate you hire someone from the another organization, but almost all of them currently have jobs. That means you'd have to promote the Giants' assistant GM, and if you're going to do that, then why fire JR in mid-season in the first place?

And there is absolutely no precedent that I'm aware of for firing a HC in the middle of his second season after he led your team to the playoffs in his first year.

You also run a big risk of getting stuck with the interim HC if the Giants finish up say, 6 - 3, because some will say that he deserves a chance. That's how the Giants got stuck with John McVay in '76, after Ansparger was fired in mid-season.

Why not wait until you see what's available at the end of the year?

The Giants will let this play out and they could certainly make a move. But I would be shocked if either Jerry or Ben were fired in mid-season, just because the fans want their pound of flesh.
I think there's some logic to firing before the end of year  
jcn56 : 10/9/2017 6:46 pm : link
The idea being that with a house cleaning coming up (again - requires that Mara feels that is in order), that doing so before the end of season gives the new management a chance to install their system and scouts before they hit the ground running for the draft.

I highly doubt Mara would ever do that. I don't think they would relieve Reese ahead of the end of the season, especially in light of the fact that the team won two championships while he was here. I don't think they'd even can McAdoo, simply because they wouldn't want the optics to follow him around either (some people will stupidly suggest that they'll punt to try to hide their mistake, as if firing him a month or a year later magically washes away the stink of failure).
Lol Britt, no offense  
chopperhatch : 10/9/2017 6:52 pm : link
But I think firing McAdoo and Reese, investing heavily in the O line and playing for the number one overall pick is something EVERY Giants fan is on board with at this point. Not exactly a landmark strategy.

However firing Mac by the bye would be out of the ordinary, and something I said after week 2. I knew this team got gelded by this offensive strategy and have been rooting for 0-7 going into the bye because I really really want to see how this team and ownership reacts.
Odds on Webb being good?  
Marty866b : 10/9/2017 7:02 pm : link
Let's think about it. Webb was scouted by Reese and his scouts. Selected in the 3rd round. How successful has Reese been in the 3rd round of his 12 drafts? Well Manningham was a pretty good selection. Well,that's it. EVERYONE else has sucked. That is a very poor track record. The odds that Webb is the exception? Not good. Time to give him a look is this season though it would not be fair to Webb.
RE: ...  
djm : 10/9/2017 7:34 pm : link
In comment 13638868 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I don't think 5-6 quality games at year end by Webb would stop me from drafting one of the franchise QBs (if I thought one was worthy). Sample size isn't big enough.


Exactly. Webb will never show enough this season for me to bypass a more elite qb prospect in next year's draft. That might sound crazy but it's just the truth. And let's be honest, this team isn't fostering anything great let alone great qb play from a raw 3rd round rookie especially with the dearth of receiving talent.

What on earth is Webb really going to show us this season? Maybe a few nice little moments? Great. You're still gonna have more questions than answers at qb.

Not to mention Webb won't play unless Eli gets hurt anyway. You know it. I know it.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 10/9/2017 7:41 pm : link
To your point, djm, most of the recent rookie QBs who've had success have had decent rosters around them - Watson has some weapons and a decent OL, Prescott. The 2011 Redskins had an average offense prior to RG3's arrival and subsequent ROY win.

Webb would have a garbage OL, no RBs, and without a serious weapon at WR even if Marshall and Shepard heal. It's a recipe for disaster.
BTW  
hassan : 10/9/2017 8:37 pm : link
there will be no massive rebuild. The team is too locked into players they are paying a lot. They dont even need a massive rebuild. Tom C coaching this team would be no less than 2-3 and maybe 3-2. They have lost three very close games in a row.

I dont see why Eli's feelings matter that much. He's not bigger than the team. Everyone gets offended when teams have to move on; he will not hold it against NYG longer term. I agree Giants should trot Webb out at least in some garbage time capacity and get some tape on him so I agree with KWALL. Not like eli has to take every snap right now.

I don't have a problem with Webb getting playing time...  
Britt in VA : 10/9/2017 9:38 pm : link
I have a problem with benching a healthy Eli so it can happen.

Let him come in the second half. Let him come in garbage time when we're getting blown out (it's coming).

A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 10/9/2017 9:42 pm : link
1) I wouldn't fire anyone during the season. The main reason is because there isn't a single person on this staff I would promote.

2) I would fire Reese, McAdoo, and the entire staff the day after the season ends. Let the new GM hire the HC of his choice and the two of them compile the entire coaching staff to their liking.

3) There is no way in Hell I start Webb a single game. If you're going to do that, then you might as well trade Eli right now.
RE: I don't have a problem with Webb getting playing time...  
BrettNYG10 : 10/9/2017 9:43 pm : link
In comment 13640265 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I have a problem with benching a healthy Eli so it can happen.

Let him come in the second half. Let him come in garbage time when we're getting blown out (it's coming).


I do too. Maybe I'm a bit sentimental about Eli, but I also think it would tarnish NYG's reputation a bit. It's served as a competitive advantage - Eli did choose to come here over SD - wasting it away by tarnishing a record that Eli cares deeply about would bother me.
My worst nightmare is Resse and McAdoo getting a pass  
Matt M. : 10/9/2017 9:47 pm : link
now that injuries are mounting. Then, I have no confidence they will get the top pick (or top 3 pick) right, or the rest of the draft for that matter. If that's the case, this season could end up setting the franchise back further, thus wasting Eli's remaining years. I would hope they trade himif this is the case.
Come on Brett  
KWALL2 : 10/9/2017 11:33 pm : link
Quote:
it would tarnish NYG's reputation a bit. It's served as a competitive advantage - Eli did choose to come here over SD - wasting it away by tarnishing a record that Eli cares deeply about


I just don't get this post.

Eli choosing to come here or a record of consecutive starts shouldnt dictate how we evaluate players. He's one player. And an older player. A games started streak? The team is run by fools if it's a factor. The team hasn't won a game and there is no chance of winning more than a couple of games. Time to start getting ready for next year.

In a wasted season, giving a young QB playing time and giving Eli a few games off would not tarnish the reputation of NYG. Just the opposite, it would and should be considered a logical step to improvement.
RE: RE: I don't have a problem with Webb getting playing time...  
chopperhatch : 10/9/2017 11:43 pm : link
In comment 13640296 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 13640265 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


I have a problem with benching a healthy Eli so it can happen.

Let him come in the second half. Let him come in garbage time when we're getting blown out (it's coming).




I do too. Maybe I'm a bit sentimental about Eli, but I also think it would tarnish NYG's reputation a bit. It's served as a competitive advantage - Eli did choose to come here over SD - wasting it away by tarnishing a record that Eli cares deeply about would bother me.


I agree with this. Plus he can play while the draft pick learns next year. No need to piss him off going out the door. The way Tom left sucked. We let Eli walk out feeling he was jilted would definitely tarnish this great era of Giants football.
If Eli was more respected, it would probably hurt to some extent.  
Devon : 10/9/2017 11:46 pm : link
It is something that clearly means an enormous amount to him, a source of genuine pride and one of the few things he has left in his favor when it comes to matters like the HoF, and for them to healthy bench him for a third round rookie project would be seen as highly disrespectful -- if he was viewed differently than he seemingly is by others players. That's something guys do notice at times (on the side, well well after how much money they're being paid obviously).

To be blunt, he's not though. Other than a handful of ex Giants who would be a little mouthy on twitter about it, it'd blow over quick and Mara would just have to accept that when they have their reunion nights and what have you they wouldn't have Eli for them.
RE: Come on Brett  
BrettNYG10 : 10/9/2017 11:56 pm : link
In comment 13640643 KWALL2 said:
Quote:


Quote:


it would tarnish NYG's reputation a bit. It's served as a competitive advantage - Eli did choose to come here over SD - wasting it away by tarnishing a record that Eli cares deeply about



I just don't get this post.

Eli choosing to come here or a record of consecutive starts shouldnt dictate how we evaluate players. He's one player. And an older player. A games started streak? The team is run by fools if it's a factor. The team hasn't won a game and there is no chance of winning more than a couple of games. Time to start getting ready for next year.

In a wasted season, giving a young QB playing time and giving Eli a few games off would not tarnish the reputation of NYG. Just the opposite, it would and should be considered a logical step to improvement.


I could 100% be wrong - I'm not an expert in player psychology - I think the optics of Eli's potential exit matter in reinforcing how the Giants are viewed league-wide.

You can still evaluate Webb and let Eli maintain his streak.
I'd bet on Eli  
KWALL2 : 10/10/2017 12:16 am : link
Being a player who would understand the big picture and not put a streak or individual record above the team.

We're talking about giving Webb 4-7 games. Get him some practice rep and let's see what he can do for a team with no shot at making the playoffs. Eli should be OK with giving up the playing time.

And if he had a problem with it? That would be something the team shouldn't really care about it while they try to get this thing fixed.

Put me in the camp  
nyynyg : 10/10/2017 5:49 am : link
Of a midseason dismissal of HC and GM never happening. We are more likely the NFL voting a playoff format change and the Giants still have a shot.

Also think we have a lot further to fall unfortunately before there is a firing at the end of the season, at least for Mac. If he fully loses the team perhaps. Reese could be gone but I still question whether Mara would house clean like people want, I just do not see it in him.
RE: I'd bet on Eli  
Britt in VA : 10/10/2017 7:16 am : link
In comment 13640683 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Being a player who would understand the big picture and not put a streak or individual record above the team.

We're talking about giving Webb 4-7 games. Get him some practice rep and let's see what he can do for a team with no shot at making the playoffs. Eli should be OK with giving up the playing time.

And if he had a problem with it? That would be something the team shouldn't really care about it while they try to get this thing fixed.


I don't think he'd have a problem with it, I'D have a problem with it as a fan. You don't throw away a 14 year iron man streak for some scrub.

Eli has earned the right to start until he can't, or is unable to perform the duties. Bench him for injury, bench him for poor performance, don't bench him for some scrub 3rd round pick.

Talk about an anti-climatic ending to an amazing streak. It would be a slap in the face to a lifetime of hard ass work.
Really, I don't even know why we're talking about it....  
Britt in VA : 10/10/2017 7:18 am : link
because Eli is not going to be benched, so this is much ado about nothing.
RE: Put me in the camp  
Britt in VA : 10/10/2017 7:18 am : link
In comment 13640713 nyynyg said:
Quote:
Of a midseason dismissal of HC and GM never happening. We are more likely the NFL voting a playoff format change and the Giants still have a shot.

Also think we have a lot further to fall unfortunately before there is a firing at the end of the season, at least for Mac. If he fully loses the team perhaps. Reese could be gone but I still question whether Mara would house clean like people want, I just do not see it in him.
j

I don't think it's going to happen, either. I just said if I was in charge, that's how I would handle it.
there is far too much money involved  
Jersey55 : 10/10/2017 10:52 am : link
in the NFL now to let sentiment interfere in a teams decision to improve, at some point everyone becomes dispensable......
RE: there is far too much money involved  
Britt in VA : 10/10/2017 10:53 am : link
In comment 13641171 Jersey55 said:
Quote:
in the NFL now to let sentiment interfere in a teams decision to improve, at some point everyone becomes dispensable......


Well I guess we'll see, won't we?
If Eli gets benched without injury for Webb to start and the streak...  
Britt in VA : 10/10/2017 10:54 am : link
ends, guess you'll be able to come back and tell me "I told you so".
Eli is not taking a seat for Webb this season.  
AnnapolisMike : 10/10/2017 10:57 am : link
He is a third round project and the team has no interest in throwing him to the wolves.



RE: RE: I still don't understand  
Matt M. : 10/10/2017 12:53 pm : link
In comment 13639024 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 13638967 NorwoodWideRight said:


Quote:


how you can draft a QB without knowing what you have in Webb.



Webb hasnít proven anything. And canít prove it by the time the draft comes around. If there is another franchise QB in this draft you take him.
Nope. I trade down...only assuming it is someone other than Reese making the picks, someone other than McAdoo coaching the team, and an entirely different coaching staff.
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