This really extends a few years and has been touched on by others as well, but with this season over, it truly pisses me off how this franchise essentially burned the final half of Eli Manning's career.
On top of that, the braintrust at top (Reese, McAdoo) have each taken shots at the guy who is frankly the reason they are each employed in their current positions at all. Pathetic.
Eli was coming off his best season in 2011, capped with a ring for a team that basically rode him into the playoffs (a 9-7 division title with a bottom of the league running game and defense) and then relied on his magic and a defense that woke up for 4 weeks to earn said ring. 7 years in, Eli had 2 rings and 2 SB MVPs. It is absolutely inexcusable that since hoisting that trophy, Eli will have played in exactly ONE playoff game in the ensuing 6 seasons.
Eli is not entirely absolved of blame, but look around the NFL and you can count on 2 hands (tops) the number of legitimate franchise QBs in this league. We have been lucky enough to have one of them. We have been lucky enough to not wonder or worry about uncertainty at the position for a decade and a half. Eli has outlasted the flashes in the pan, the next big things...over his career, how many QBs would really rank above or equal to him in the overall comfort/productivity scheme of things? I'd count Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, Ben.
Yet, the efforts to build around him (as Matt in SGS alluded to in an earlier post or as beautifully written by Barnwell this morning) have been flawed at best. The "weapons" brought in have primarily been stopgaps other than a roll of the dice turning into this team's best draft pick in a decade.
Obviously injuries - especially at WR - play a role, but the complete lack of effort to build an OL or a run-game, the insufficiencies in overall drafting...
It may be fun now to think about who the "next" franchise QB may be, especially given the likelihood that we draft in the top 5, but its shameful that coming off of his best season, his 2nd SB MVP, and really being in the midst of his prime, this franchise couldn't figure out a way to get Eli Manning another legit run at a title.
not necessarily. those 2 SB's are among the greatest runs this team may ever have. my argument is more that he wasn't even afforded a legit shot to get more. of course, rings matter most at the end, but if you're blessed with being one of the few teams with a franchise QB, you should be a perennial contender given the way the league works now.
that's my argument. 1 playoff game in his final 6 years is something i could never have conceived.
Doesn't absolve Reese from not putting a better OL around him, but let's not make it sound like we left some rings on the table.
Do you feel the same way about Peyton, who was without question a much better QB? And his second ring was almost in spite of him.
the idea that the first 7 produced 5 playoff appearances and a 10W season in one of the misses, while the 2nd 7 may end up producing 1 playoff game is pretty damning.
It's a scary question. Impossible to answer without plenty of debate. All I know is we've sucked for a long time now and save for two halfway decent Offensive seasons in 14 and 15, the offense has been a major reason why we've sucked. The offense hasn't carried anything. The qb hasn't carried anything.
I give up.
Doesn't absolve Reese from not putting a better OL around him, but let's not make it sound like we left some rings on the table.
Do you feel the same way about Peyton, who was without question a much better QB? And his second ring was almost in spite of him.
absolutely, Eli is not absolved in all of this. i do think it's difficult to tease apart all the moving parts that go into these types of things: i.e. part of his inconsistency could be due to high WR turnover, inability of certain WR's to understand route running (see Randle, R.); but he certainly had some head-scratcher decisions too.
again I can't really argue from a rings standpoint because Eli nabbed 2. that said, Peyton's teams made the playoffs in essentially every season. of course, i know rings matter above all. my argument is that having a franchise QB should equate to contender status in this NFL and we simply were not.
the only rings on the table to me, ironically, came in those first 7 years also (2008, and to a much lesser degree 2010)
The recent past sucked, the present sucks, and there's little reason to realistically believe the future won't because the Giants just don't make the moves they really need to right now. It's Eli's turn to take the fall, and he will, all while Reese, Ross, Chris Mara, etc will just keep on keeping on.
It's a scary question. Impossible to answer without plenty of debate. All I know is we've sucked for a long time now and save for two halfway decent Offensive seasons in 14 and 15, the offense has been a major reason why we've sucked. The offense hasn't carried anything. The qb hasn't carried anything.
I give up.
it's a decent argument, but unless one believes Eli fell off a cliff following his absolute best season, then one could say that there was still plenty left in the tank. maybe not with the consistency of a Brady/Rogers, but certainly enough to be a 9-11 W team and earn playoff berths here and there.
It become increasingly evident with each passing week that a quarterbacks like Prescott, Wentz, that can also make plays with their legs are a tremendous advantage for their teas.
Every week I see quarterbacks like those two, escape situations to make plays, where Eli just drops to the ground.
Not a knock on Eli, but it s a reality.
A.THIS is the result.
B.You should have no longer been or be employed as GM.
The Packers are going 25 years with Favre/Rodgers and have as many rings to show for it as we do with Eli in 14. Brees only has one. The Peyton/Luck string are on year 19 and only have one and seem unlikely to get another anytime soon.
Some of the 'playoff volatility' can be traced to Eli himself. He's a streaky player.
I'm not going to view the Giants as letting Eli down when we see how hard it is to win around the league. The past five years have sucked, but winning two rings in 14 seasons is a tremendous success.
The Packers are going 25 years with Favre/Rodgers and have as many rings to show for it as we do with Eli in 14. Brees only has one. The Peyton/Luck string are on year 19 and only have one and seem unlikely to get another anytime soon.
Some of the 'playoff volatility' can be traced to Eli himself. He's a streaky player.
I'm not going to view the Giants as letting Eli down when we see how hard it is to win around the league. The past five years have sucked, but winning two rings in 14 seasons is a tremendous success.
i guess to some extent call it greediness as a fan.
if in the summer of 2004 you told me (or likely any NYG fan) that the career of Eli Manning would net 2 rings and in the process, one of them would be accomplished via taking out an undefeated team in the SB, i'd ask where to sign.
i think it's just that Eli's career can almost cleanly be split in half between perennial playoff contender (and 2 rings) to a team that has netted a single playoff appearance.
i definitely recognize that it's not as if Eli has played all-world while the rest of the team has underperformed or something, just seems like coming off of his best season, we still should've been perennial playoff contenders at worst over the ensuing years.
I wish we saw 2009-2011 Eli with the 2005-2008 teams. Eli's best ball coincided with the team deteriorating. The 2011 team was not a great team in my view - I still don't think Eli's 2011 regular season gets the credit it deserves.
I wish we saw 2009-2011 Eli with the 2005-2008 teams. Eli's best ball coincided with the team deteriorating. The 2011 team was not a great team in my view - I still don't think Eli's 2011 regular season gets the credit it deserves.
that 2nd ring sits squarely on his shoulders IMO. he should've been league MVP, but hey, ask people outside the Giants fanbase (or at least most of the fanbase...) and Eli is lucky that his defense got him 2 rings.
As evidenced by where this team is now and seeing what steps Jacksonville has been taking in upgrading their team under Coughlin, it is clear to me that the wrong people were in charge and the wrong people were let go.
The giants fumbled the ball and my only hope is that they finally see that status quo is unacceptable and they make wholesale changes next year.
That's the result when you continue to employ GM who's an empty suit for all the wrong reasons.
NFL ready coach . Now that we get to know him a bit better
I see nothing about him that makes me want him back .
It's a scary question. Impossible to answer without plenty of debate. All I know is we've sucked for a long time now and save for two halfway decent Offensive seasons in 14 and 15, the offense has been a major reason why we've sucked. The offense hasn't carried anything. The qb hasn't carried anything.
I give up.
Whether you're right or not I think you should see a bunch of BBIers at your door with torches and pitchforks tonight.
The Giants were blessed with a guy that played every game, and did so at a high level. The record since 2012 should be better than 39-46.
The Giants were blessed with a guy that played every game, and did so at a high level. The record since 2012 should be better than 39-46.
bingo. i'm not discounting the fact that we got 2 rings during Eli's tenure, that's in fact not my grievance at all. the fact of the matter is that we got them during a period of being a somewhat legitimate contender for half of his tenure only.
a 7 games below .500 to go with 1 playoff game on the heels of what was accomplished in the first half of his career is what is most disappointing to me. the signs were on the wall for several years. the funny thing is, in theory, the front office has burned several high picks on OL (Beatty, Flowers, Pugh, Richburg) but the problem seems to be in talent evaluation.
yet, while this team was more than happy to blow a wad on defense when they realized the failings of their drafting, they did no such justice for the OL.
We've put in some resources w/ several picks and some FAs, but few if any pan out. Obviously there's a million factors including injuries but since Snee's last 2 yrs and the consistent lack of a workable plan B it's been awful. It's not easy but mgmt seems to have blinders on; this is about the 5-6th yr straight we fielded a subpar OL, whether we expected improved health, development, talent...in almost no instance has it been reliable even at the individual level. Despite 5-6 yrs of coaches backing them preseason, they were always worse in real games, often right from the first snap
If we can say that Reese did all the drafting with little input from his coaches or point a finger at 1 person, that would be great. But unfortunately it seems like a larger issue across several levels. There's a slew of pros at HC, OC, OL coach who are unable to do much better. It can change quickly - be it with proper talent, improved scouting, better coaches - but for now it's a concerning pattern and continued major problem
Remember that killer season in 08 that ended in Plax blowing his leg off? Well, the D was running out of steam too - but we had a home playoff game against Philly. Here's a recap from Big Blue View:
Don't get me wrong, Eli's our best QB of all time (modern times, I go back to Simms and can't speak to anyone before him). He's a great guy, he's played exceptionally well. But to make it sound like he's infallible in all the losing that's happened the past few years when he's played a part, or to sound like we let him down because we didn't pair him with talent and left trophies on the table is ridiculous.
https://www.bigblueview.com/2009/1/12/717056/kudos-wet-willies-it-s-ov - ( New Window )
Which is why next year I'd be more comfortable trading down in the draft if we're looking at a franchise QB. Give me multiple picks to build a club around and I'll take my chances with an aging Eli and promising Webb.
Let's fix the things that are wrong with this organization instead of drafting a replacement QB as a fix for one of the few things that hasn't been wrong.
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Or just another decent qb that goes along for the ride. Be it a bumpy ride to nowhere or a nice ride to a one and done playoffs?
It's a scary question. Impossible to answer without plenty of debate. All I know is we've sucked for a long time now and save for two halfway decent Offensive seasons in 14 and 15, the offense has been a major reason why we've sucked. The offense hasn't carried anything. The qb hasn't carried anything.
I give up.
it's a decent argument, but unless one believes Eli fell off a cliff following his absolute best season, then one could say that there was still plenty left in the tank. maybe not with the consistency of a Brady/Rogers, but certainly enough to be a 9-11 W team and earn playoff berths here and there.
Yup
Could have easily gone to the ship those years if a couple things went differently.
Ever since the Falcons took Ryan they've bent over backwards to build an offense around him. Gave up a decent amount to get Julio. Built an OL around him. Burned tons of picks on WRs and RBs. Even traded for Tony Gonzales when a lot of Giants fans wanted Reese to make that move.
Instead Eli gets a trash OL, trash RBs, and too little too late at WR/TE.
You can go through that and see that a lot of qbs have hardships. Some have performed better through it than others. It sucks that we have a crap team for much of the past 5 years and haven't had a chance to make one last run with our franchise qb, but it's not unique. Only NE seems to be immune.
pfr - ( New Window )
If they dump the coach you can probably say goodbye to Eli as I don’t see him trying to learn a new system
Maybe John Gruden is the answer as he comes from that system of WCO if he even wants the job !