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What about Spags?

trueblueinpw : 10/9/2017 9:46 pm
With so much consternation rightly heaped on the pathetic McAdoo offense and the questionable in game decisions by the HC, not as much attention has been paid to coach Spags failures. Eli Apple being benched and having a tough season, the defense has been soft on the edges getting little pass pressure, so stout against the run last year theyíre getting gashed in the run game this year and completely failing to get off the field on third down, LC hasnít been the player he was last year. The defense has not been good. And, while itís hardly indicative of Spags coaching ability, I thought Jackrabbit leaving the field early on Sunday might be an indication the defense isnít mentally in any better shape than the offense.

Is the ďcultureĒ of Ben McAdoo spilling over and onto the defense? Whatís the matter with Spags defense?
The defense has taken a step back  
Les in TO : 10/9/2017 9:54 pm : link
But when your offense consistently goes three and out and your punter is all over the map it puts undue pressure on them
Eli Apple  
Blue Moon : 10/9/2017 9:55 pm : link
Was another in a series of brain fart draft picks by this GM. JPP has been invisible. Our GM throws the vault at him instead of giving him a box of sparklers and wishing him good luck. Don't blame this on Spags.
Spags should be fired, along with the rest of the staff  
Matt M. : 10/9/2017 9:55 pm : link
His D hasn't done shit. They have given up multiple leads in the 4th quarter of the last 3 games. Imagine how different everything would seem/feel if Wing nails 2 punts and the D didn't fold. 3-2 wouldn't be half bad.
Spags had like 3 good defensive years out of  
SHO'NUFF : 10/9/2017 9:56 pm : link
how many years coaching?

Overrated.
Banks had an intersting point on the after game  
GIANTS128 : 10/9/2017 9:57 pm : link
What he said kind of surprised me. Im not enough of a nuts and bolts guy to say he is incorrect. He said maybe they should be playing more zone. He said they are playing mostly man and guys are just getting free. Now Im not sure how that plays to the talents of the team but he does seem to have a valid point. At least in zone if you let a guy free....in theory there is someone there. Would like to here from those who have better grasp of defensive thinking.
They need to clean house  
blueblood : 10/9/2017 9:59 pm : link
completely..
Great post  
EJJ : 10/9/2017 10:00 pm : link
Seems like the whole team has been in a funk not ready to play since the season started. It's the coach's job to get these guys motivate to play I don't care if they're professionals still the coachs job to get them ready to play and they're not ready!
I think the league took the Giants D very seriously this year and studied them.
The corridor has to adjust and he hasn't and the players seem pretty lazy this year. Love these guys work a lot of money last year they acted like they have something to prove maybe this year they decided they proved what they had to and decided to take it easy I don't know
RE: Spags had like 3 good defensive years out of  
Matt M. : 10/9/2017 10:03 pm : link
In comment 13640340 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
how many years coaching?

Overrated.
Thank you. I thought I was the only one here who thought this. And outside of those 3 years (more like 2 and a half), his defenses have been no better than mediocre, including two of the historically worst ever defenses. And his time as a HC was nothing to write home about. I certainly wouldn't want him hired to replace McAdoo.
I LOVED Spags...  
bradshaw44 : 10/9/2017 10:11 pm : link
But I think I had super bowl blinders on. Iím done with EVERYONE on this staff and front office. Clean house. If we are looking at a 5 year sample, they are under .500 and show no signs of improving. Iím done.
RE: I LOVED Spags...  
GIANTS128 : 10/9/2017 10:19 pm : link
In comment 13640382 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
But I think I had super bowl blinders on. Iím done with EVERYONE on this staff and front office. Clean house. If we are looking at a 5 year sample, they are under .500 and show no signs of improving. Iím done.


Agreed...lot of good pices on defense...for some reason they took a swoon dive...hard to say why...mostly the same guys....
Yes, the defense hasn't been very well.  
Since1965 : 10/9/2017 10:29 pm : link
But, most of the season, the pathetic offense has kept them on the field far too long due to their incompetence. I still think that most of this team's problems keep circling back to the shit on the OL. They finally run blocked against a lousy team, but most of the year they haven't been able to run. The OL cannot sustain blocks, so Manning has to get rid of the ball in less than two seconds. I know everyone is all over McAdoo and his play calling, but how many different types of five yard passes can you come up with? It's the OL that has screwed this team....AGAIN!
The OL is definitely a problem, but it is not THE problem  
Matt M. : 10/9/2017 10:32 pm : link
We had more or less the same type of OL in 2014 and 2015 and McAdoo ran a WCO offense that countered the bad OL play. He is not running that same offense.
cant play zone  
Dankbeerman : 10/9/2017 10:37 pm : link
when your only pass rush is coming from DB's
Hard to say  
WillVAB : 10/9/2017 10:43 pm : link
It's fair to criticize Spags but he can only work with the talent he's given. JPP and Vernon have underwhelmed. Apple and Thompson have sucked. The Giants consistently field borderline NFL roster guys at the LB position and get gashed by receiving backs and TEs.

All things considered, I don't think Spags gets the most out of what he's given like Marinelli, but you can do a lot worse than Spags. Think about how shitty the Giants d was under Sheridan in '09 vs '08 with essentially the same talent.
Needs to go as well..  
prdave73 : 10/9/2017 10:44 pm : link
It's obvious his time is done as well. Start fresh.
RE: Eli Apple  
B in ALB : 10/9/2017 10:48 pm : link
In comment 13640336 Blue Moon said:
Quote:
Was another in a series of brain fart draft picks by this GM. JPP has been invisible. Our GM throws the vault at him instead of giving him a box of sparklers and wishing him good luck. Don't blame this on Spags.


He didn't stand for the anthem either.
The DC will be the next HC's choice anyway.  
TC : 10/9/2017 10:51 pm : link
.
The defense was vastly overrated on this site  
Go Terps : 10/9/2017 10:56 pm : link
The personnel, especially the defensive ends, were never as good as their contracts or as the fans here rationalized them to be.
Agree they were overrated  
trueblueinpw : 10/10/2017 1:56 am : link
That much seems apparent. They fattened up on a lot of lower division teams and lousy QBs last year. (Which is why it drives me nuts that people wave around ď11-5Ē as a reason to keep McAdoo). But, thereís talent on the defense and theyíve been getting smoked by offenses they should at least be able to play with. What about LC? He was a consensus superstar last year. What about Jackrabbit? Top 3 CB last year right? OV is hurt but heís a very solid player and Snacks and JPP and DRC. You canít chalk up such a precipitous decline to merely being overrated. Itís pretty fucking grim around here now - the season is shot and the offense is going to be a McAdoo do shitshow until it isnít - but it would still be nice to see the defense got its shit together. Used be the defense of the Giants had some fucking pride.
Spags is overrated IMO  
AnyoneButPhilly : 10/10/2017 6:37 am : link
There is a ton of talent on this defense. I think most coordinators would be successful with this personnel. Imagine what someone like Wade Phillips could do with these players?
I don't blame Spags  
Simms11 : 10/10/2017 6:51 am : link
for missed tackles or guys not setting the edge or not getting off of blocks. That to me is individual effort and I do not see it. There's no physicality and some players appear to be out of position at times. There needs to be a leader on the D and I do not see that either.
RE: Agree they were overrated  
gmenatlarge : 10/10/2017 7:39 am : link
In comment 13640700 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
That much seems apparent. They fattened up on a lot of lower division teams and lousy QBs last year. (Which is why it drives me nuts that people wave around ď11-5Ē as a reason to keep McAdoo). But, thereís talent on the defense and theyíve been getting smoked by offenses they should at least be able to play with. What about LC? He was a consensus superstar last year. What about Jackrabbit? Top 3 CB last year right? OV is hurt but heís a very solid player and Snacks and JPP and DRC. You canít chalk up such a precipitous decline to merely being overrated. Itís pretty fucking grim around here now - the season is shot and the offense is going to be a McAdoo do shitshow until it isnít - but it would still be nice to see the defense got its shit together. Used be the defense of the Giants had some fucking pride.


Little tired of the OV is hurt excuse, heard that all last year. Face it, he and JPP are hugely overpaid and underproductive, another Reese failure.
Clean house  
jeff57 : 10/10/2017 7:46 am : link
.
Those Super Bowl Blinders Have Fooled Alot of Us  
Jeffrey : 10/10/2017 8:18 am : link
Not just about Spags, but many of the personnel on this team. Last year's team was an aberration and what has been shown on the field this year is exactly the type of play/effort that got Coughlin fired (and deservedly so). What is a shame is that Coughlin took all the blame and McAdoo, Reese, Spags and Quinn somehow skated. It's time for a complete overhaul and that includes trying to move on from the QB who, though a warrior, is severely limited by the lack of talent around him and the march of time. Always a streaky player, his play is even more erratic and less predictable these past few years and he would be better served somewhere else where he has time in the pocket and a running game.
I never did understand  
Gman11 : 10/10/2017 8:32 am : link
giving JPP that big contract. Yeah, he got some sacks against some horrible teams to pad his stats, but most of the time he got no push.

He had one great year in 2011 and lived on his reputation from there.

Spags is the only reason i don't want Ben fired  
rasbutant : 10/10/2017 8:41 am : link
Love his style of defense. Don't want him as head coach.
seriously this is the question of the season!  
giantfan2000 : 10/10/2017 8:42 am : link
defense had many returning pro bowlers
was upgraded from last year

Defense is TERRIBLE

the fact is offense has given defense the lead in the last minutes twice and they blew it both times

the defense was suppose to be strength this year and turn into weakness

what the hell happened?

Where are the adjustments being made on defense?  
joe48 : 10/10/2017 9:40 am : link
Spags does not seem to be a great coach unless he has the pass rushers. We have less sacks than Dallas. How motivated are the veterans being paid the big bucks. Vernon needs to get off his knees and sack a few QBís. JPP got thrown to the ground over the weekend by a Charger offensive lineman. JPP has always been a big talker. He got his payday and is not hungry.
Spags D is effective only when he has 7 Pro Bowl level DLs to  
Victor in CT : 10/10/2017 10:19 am : link
rotate. His schemes suck.

And you can't blem the offense when you get skewered for 18 play, 90 yard drives int he first half at Philly, can't get off the field aagainst anybody.
I don't want another Perry Fewell  
ATL_Giants : 10/10/2017 10:20 am : link
 
RE: I don't want another Perry Fewell  
Devon : 10/10/2017 11:32 am : link
In comment 13641094 ATL_Giants said:
Quote:


There's not much difference between Spags and Fewell in terms of quality.
Comparison.....  
Doomster : 10/10/2017 12:30 pm : link
Look at the pressure on Eli, with 4 and sometimes 3 rushing him...conversely, look at the pressure of our 4, rushing their QB.....look at how much more time their qb has, and lack of pressure.....

Even last season, pressure was generated by blitzes, not from the front 4.....First two games when OV and JPP were healthy, still no sacks or pressures......We invested big bucks in our DE's and we are not getting a good return on them.....

It's fun to play, when everything is clicking......but when you can't sack the qb, or create turnovers, that's why this defense is out on the field so long.....how many 3 and outs have there been?

And now you have both DE's hurt......Snacks can't do it alone......our linebackers have been exposed once again in the passing game....and Eli Apple can't be coached to look for the ball.....

As for Collins, is he trying to do too much, instead of just concentrating on his own game? He has given up quite a few big pass plays, in just 5 games.....our FS position is a joke.....could not find a replay of the Thompson int, showing his positioning on the play....was it just a bad throw by Rivers, or did he actually make a play?

With a year of film on this defense, it's weaknesses have been exposed, and teams are taking advantage of it....
Their top 3 CBs  
JonC : 10/10/2017 12:37 pm : link
all excel in man, it's how they built the talent and scheme together.

Front seven isn't playing well collectively, and it's affecting the entire unit. Apple's issues with grabbing and not looking back for the ball are mental errors he's got to fix, as he did a season ago.
I like Spags as a DC, even now when his D is under acheiving  
PatersonPlank : 10/10/2017 12:43 pm : link
I don't want him however as the HC. He has failed at that every time he tried.
I like Spagnulo  
idiotsavant : 10/10/2017 12:55 pm : link
but, assuming a new GM/HC combo (two people) , possibly a combination who are already known to each other, you have to let the GM and HC dictate all things, even regarding position and side coaches.

BUT > They would do that only during the offseason:

Once the season starts, it needs to be a Defensive Coordinator dictatorship, as it should be right now:

We have no information, it is possible that personell moves, or other factors, have been dictated from the HC or even worse, the GM, during the season, which would have obviously been a huge mistake, don't think Mac has much a clue on this.

Or, worse than that, a position coach, like d-backs, dictating up the chain to the D coordinator, using the GM as leverage, pulling people in and out at will, or narrowing down the schemes, or pushing one kid at the expense of another. No.

It is going back to what Eli Apple said, 'fixing the culture', with an O centric head coach, the Defensive Coordinator should have full dictatorial powers over who starts, who warms the bench, and who is on the roster and who gets cut. And everyone else can STFU.

Players ought not gripe about that:

Creative endeavors are rarely if ever done well as group efforts, it needs be a dictatorship, and Mac has no experience at all on the D side.

How you ''cure the culture'' is by giving the D coordinator full dictator powers. GM and HC should be moot once the season starts on D.

All that having been said, w/l not being in line, when offseason comes, that person can also be fired.
one possible solution would be as follows:  
idiotsavant : 10/10/2017 1:06 pm : link
Assuming a new GM, which has been glaringly obvious for years:

Possibly you separate the management of staff; coaches hiring and firings, from player management, the draft and recruiting, roster decisions, ...giving each total autonomy with a third party to watch over the process:

In this way you would avoid possible conflicts of interest as in "my guys" (players you drafted high or coaches you brought in) one vs the other.

Obviously, you want recruitment to synch with what style of ball you want to play, (GM sees eye to eye with coaches) but that's during the offseason.

But there should be zero interference with, zero influence on coaching once the season starts. The only time they should talk during the season is if the DC or OC asks for an additional free agent, and what type.

The best laid plans and all that...its crazy.
Doom  
idiotsavant : 10/10/2017 1:16 pm : link
Thompsons INT was great:

He had to come off his man, stay low (so QB would not see him coming) and cut across the end zone, get high. Good throw, QB didn't see him coming. Good players make big plays. This was huge.

Thompsons PD in the end zone was even better, he had to lay out horizontal and pull the ball down from the players grip, perfect.

THIS- Its being freed from 'prevent duties' due to red zone (back of field acts as prevent in a sense, that freed the kid up to make plays in front of WRs, which he can do obviously, he had like 16 INTs in college - not a fluke).

Go find the historic roster of safeties at NYG, safety management has been -abysmal- here for 15 years.

Thompson also got home on a blitz sack, something Kennard has failed to do all to often, for example.

This was a game where even Jackrabbit ( a stellar and amazing corner) made mistakes.
RE: Banks had an intersting point on the after game  
Jersey55 : 10/11/2017 4:39 pm : link
In comment 13640342 GIANTS128 said:
Quote:
What he said kind of surprised me. Im not enough of a nuts and bolts guy to say he is incorrect. He said maybe they should be playing more zone. He said they are playing mostly man and guys are just getting free. Now Im not sure how that plays to the talents of the team but he does seem to have a valid point. At least in zone if you let a guy free....in theory there is someone there. Would like to here from those who have better grasp of defensive thinking.

the problem I have with playing zone defense is blown coverages and they mostly lead to TDs..
The more I see from this team  
Modus Operandi : 10/11/2017 4:43 pm : link
The more I'm convinced that neither McAdoo or Spags should be here next season.

right now this team sucks from toot bottom  
Jersey55 : 10/11/2017 4:44 pm : link
and I would love to see the owners clean house and bring in a good quality GM who would then hire his own head coach and staff because IMO this is exactly what needs to be done.......
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