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NFT: St. Louis Blues @ New York Rangers Game Thread

BrettNYG10 : 10/10/2017 9:35 am
#lgr
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It's not bad luck that Kampfer is dressed  
MetsAreBack : 10/10/2017 7:43 pm : link
It's inexcusable
Marc Staal  
bigbluehoya : 10/10/2017 7:49 pm : link
Is really fucking terrible.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/10/2017 7:51 pm : link
Al Trautwig... does this guy know anything about dental hygiene? He looks like he has wood teeth or something. They're almost green.

The man is fucking repulsive.
RE: .  
B in ALB : 10/10/2017 7:58 pm : link
In comment 13642012 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Al Trautwig... does this guy know anything about dental hygiene? He looks like he has wood teeth or something. They're almost green.

The man is fucking repulsive.


It's not that bad.

(Runs away)
Holden had the most TOI against Tarasenko  
Kyle in NY : 10/10/2017 8:05 pm : link
He and Kampfer getting Pk time

I'm not sure I can take another season of this...
.  
arcarsenal : 10/10/2017 8:13 pm : link
This coach is absolutely clueless when it comes to deploying his players in the correct situations. It's mind-boggling. How can someone who has been around the game this long have such an issue with shit like this?
.  
arcarsenal : 10/10/2017 8:47 pm : link
In more positive news... our Igor already has 4 SO's and it's only October 10th.

Fingers crossed that we've already got Hank's heir apparent in waiting there.
If you want a good laugh  
Kyle in NY : 10/10/2017 8:55 pm : link
Go check out the time on ice for the defense through 2
Kampfer to the box  
MetsAreBack : 10/10/2017 9:08 pm : link
I mean I literally have no clue how the fuck the guy made the team let alone gets to dress
VeeNooo must gooooo....  
Torrag : 10/10/2017 9:18 pm : link
...and the sooner the better at this point.
What was that  
bluesince56 : 10/10/2017 9:37 pm : link
You got to win the face off first. Then remove the goaltender
We can't get a single bounce in third periods so far  
Kyle in NY : 10/10/2017 9:37 pm : link
against teams doing nothing but defending
NY sports  
MetsAreBack : 10/10/2017 9:38 pm : link
I guess Yankees fans feel good though
.  
arcarsenal : 10/10/2017 9:41 pm : link
Good lord.

I don't know why I even watch anything at this point. Nothing but aggravation. Part of being a fan, I guess. Just so frustrating. Everywhere I turn, the team I watch is fucking garbage.
AV's gotta go  
NYerInMA : 10/10/2017 9:42 pm : link
Enough.
Can we please  
Kyle in NY : 10/10/2017 10:23 pm : link
just play an extended stretch of games with our best defensive personnel out there and give them some time to get going? Is that so much to ask?

We had a tough time generating chances with Holden, Kampfer, and Staal playing on defense and moving the puck? Well I'm just shocked by that!

Was pretty excited to finally see a real defense this season but this coach can't get it right. Gorton has to be fuming. He should have Kampfer on a bus to Hartford tomorrow, never to return. Keep taking away the toys.
I'm still fucking dumbfounded about the lineup  
redbeard : 10/11/2017 7:54 am : link
We skated last night.

This fucking team should be the envy of more than half the league with a D of Mac, Shatty, Skjei, Smith and DeAngelo and instead we trot out a pair of Holden/Kampfer and give them legit second pair minutes

I'm fucking through with this coach
Someone on BSB said Kampfer was skating with McD in the 3rd???  
Greg from LI : 10/11/2017 8:33 am : link
Please tell me that's a lie.

Vigneault's patience with players is inversely proportional to that player's level of talent. It's insane.
I'm not going to absolve Gorton completely  
MetsAreBack : 10/11/2017 8:45 am : link
This team is really weak up the middle. The fact that we've been held to two or fewer goals in 3 of 4 games, Mika is pretty much the only forward producing, and are having a really difficult time in general scoring 5x5 isn't entirely due to defensive pairing combinations.

For whatever reason Gorton decided Hayes was ready to center the second line and that we could scrap together 3rd and 4th line centers. I get that the future may be better when the two draft picks are ready but Again I don't see how we are better positioned in a few years than at least half the league. And I have no idea who Carey and Cracknell are.

It's only 4 games I guess but the talent level on the ice last night isn't good enough to make the playoffs. I hope the coach and maybe even the GM wake up and get it together.
It's seriously like  
jv : 10/11/2017 8:45 am : link
AV is giving a big FU to Gorton. How much longer can this really be tolerated? We gave Smith a big contract to play 2nd to maybe 3rd pair minutes not ride the press box. We traded Stepan for cap relief and prospects. One of those prospects is NHL ready. He doesn't get better by sitting.
that game was unwatchable. times have changed.  
Victor in CT : 10/11/2017 8:46 am : link
in the pre Cup days the boo birds and worse would already be calling for AVs head.
RE: Someone on BSB said Kampfer was skating with McD in the 3rd???  
BrettNYG10 : 10/11/2017 9:42 am : link
In comment 13642370 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Please tell me that's a lie.

Vigneault's patience with players is inversely proportional to that player's level of talent. It's insane.


In the last five minutes, if I recall correctly.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 10/11/2017 12:12 pm : link
There's a Twitter rumor going around Smith is being benched because he showed up to camp out of shape.

I'm fine with the benching if that's the case. I just don't think Kampfer should be the beneficiary of that.
Yes, if that's the case with Smith, then the issue isn't him sitting  
Greg from LI : 10/11/2017 12:14 pm : link
It's who replaces him. You simply cannot dress Kampfer, Staal, and Holden and expect to win games. Pionk showed more than any of those three.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 10/11/2017 12:18 pm : link
DeAngelo hasn't impressed, but I'd give him reps over Kampfer. Kampfer does nothing well and has zero potential.

I don't have the hatred for Holden everyone else does - I'm fine with him getting spot starts here and there as the 6th dman. But Kampfer is absolute garbage.
.  
BrettNYG10 : 10/12/2017 12:20 pm : link
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I don't know, here was #NYR early in practice: McD-Holden, Staal-Shattenkirk, Skjei-Smith. Also, 26-51-10, 40-28-25, 61-13-36, 20-93-89.
Well at least Kampfer is out  
Kyle in NY : 10/12/2017 12:34 pm : link
Progress!
So Holden goes from healthy scratch first two games  
MetsAreBack : 10/12/2017 12:46 pm : link
And they tried to trade him all summer but no damn team would bite which tells you how the league feels about him...

... to top pair by game 5.

Makes sense, AV.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/12/2017 12:48 pm : link
Good lord...
As long as Carey and Cracknell are here though  
MetsAreBack : 10/12/2017 12:49 pm : link


=Championship

Even the devils and vegas each have three wins
Showcase?  
pjcas18 : 10/12/2017 12:51 pm : link
a lot of defensemen on the market right now.

Canadiens reportedly shopping Streit, Morrow and Davidson, didn't expect Mete to look as good as he has.

Maybe the Rangers want to shop Holden and it's hard to shop a guy who is a healthy scratch.

Or maybe just giving them too much credit.
Everyone knows what Holden is.  
BrettNYG10 : 10/12/2017 1:02 pm : link
Vegas' supply of defensemen they're willing to trade (who are all mostly comparable/better than Holden) is hurting the market.

This defense has the talent to be a top ten unit.

Gorton's comments this off-season (about Smith/Skjei/McD/Shattenkirk being top four) as well as what Shattenkirk said at the time of signing about playing with McDonagh makes me think management had a much different vision of the defense.
RE: Everyone knows what Holden is.  
pjcas18 : 10/12/2017 1:09 pm : link
In comment 13645659 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Vegas' supply of defensemen they're willing to trade (who are all mostly comparable/better than Holden) is hurting the market.

This defense has the talent to be a top ten unit.

Gorton's comments this off-season (about Smith/Skjei/McD/Shattenkirk being top four) as well as what Shattenkirk said at the time of signing about playing with McDonagh makes me think management had a much different vision of the defense.


I think that's ambitious, not a fan of Smith. and I still believe Shattenkirk is slightly more than a PP QB.

Love McD and Skjei but not top 10 as a group especially not if Staal is part of the 3rd pair. He's toast.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 10/12/2017 1:17 pm : link
We disagree on Shattenkirk/Smith, obviously.

Outside of Preds/Sharks/Flames/Ducks/Canes, I think there's a lot of mediocrity on D, so I don't think top ten is pushing it.
AV's bullshit  
bigbluehoya : 10/12/2017 1:26 pm : link
Is really starting to impact my ability to engage in these games, let alone the discussions here. It's so fucking tiresome and infuriating.
RE: ....  
pjcas18 : 10/12/2017 1:27 pm : link
In comment 13645678 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
We disagree on Shattenkirk/Smith, obviously.

Outside of Preds/Sharks/Flames/Ducks/Canes, I think there's a lot of mediocrity on D, so I don't think top ten is pushing it.


I saw a ranking from last Feb that had the Rangers D 29th. That's probably low.

In addition to the ones you named I love the Flyers D unfortunately and don't forget on the Blues, Shattenkirk was kind of an afterthought I like the Blues D more too. I like the Wild and Panthers more than the Rangers D.

I'd also include OTT and LA simply by having all-world D on each of their teams.

to 15 might be realistic, but after the top few standout D's it's a relative anyway and if I were ranking D corps I'd have the Rangers in the 15 - 20 range.

RE: RE: ....  
MetsAreBack : 10/12/2017 6:57 pm : link
In comment 13645686 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


I saw a ranking from last Feb that had the Rangers D 29th. That's probably low.

In addition to the ones you named I love the Flyers D


Since then they added Smith and Shattenkirk, and Skjei came of age later in the year with an exceptional postseason. They dumped Girardi and Klein, who were a big reason for the #29 ranking. I could easily see a jump to the 10-12 range.

I remain a lot more concerned about the 2017-2018 center play than the defense. I'm wishing, admittedly based on early returns, that they'd dumped Hayes instead of Stepan.

The Defense is on this coaching staff - if they dont want to play their best guys, then they'll suffer the consequences soon enough. But we are terrible up the middle this season, even with Mika's early season PP terrificness, in large part because Coach Dipshit doesnt want to give the kids a chance.
Don't worry, the Habs are going to give us Galchenyuk for  
BrettNYG10 : 10/12/2017 7:12 pm : link
Staal any day now.
RE: Don't worry, the Habs are going to give us Galchenyuk for  
pjcas18 : 10/12/2017 7:15 pm : link
In comment 13646163 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Staal any day now.


LOL, and he'll become a top 2 center. if MTL didn't have a surplus of awful D I'd be worried about that trade.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 10/12/2017 7:20 pm : link
There are actually a lot of quality C's who will be FA's this off-season or are available for trades. I tend to think the secondary options (a 2/3C-type rather than a Turris/Tavares) are more likely due to cap/asset constraints.
I'm guessing/hoping we are fine long-term at C  
MetsAreBack : 10/12/2017 7:54 pm : link
might require a new coach to get the kids up here... but I think the top 3 C's are in the organization right now (and thats with Hayes eventually exiting stage right)

just have to be patient, something NY'ers are not good at. Its putting our 2017-2018 season at risk though (I never bought into this 'lock to make playoffs' that so many including King Jinx himself, pjcas, was espousing in preseason)

All 4 of my teams this year in the fucking basement of their divisions. Its fuckin' great.
I'm nore of a jinx to the Capitals  
pjcas18 : 10/12/2017 8:58 pm : link
if I'm a jinx at all, I picked them to win the cup the past two years.

and Brett, I agree with you, but IMO the Rangers past two playoffs stalled because of D, not C.

There isn't a lot of legit 1C's in the NHL, they're like franchise QB's, when you have a shot at one you take it. IMO Tavares will be worth every penny he gets. Turris isn't a 1C IMO and either is Duchene.



keep up  
MetsAreBack : 10/12/2017 9:10 pm : link
we are talking about the present, you keep bringing up the past. Everyone agrees the Rangers D sucked last two years. They've changed personnel since at both D (now better) and at C (much worse, not just Stepan but also the big O)
oh and thanks a ton for Desharnais  
MetsAreBack : 10/12/2017 9:12 pm : link
3 SOG, 0 points in 46 TOI
RE: oh and thanks a ton for Desharnais  
pjcas18 : 10/12/2017 9:19 pm : link
In comment 13646239 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
3 SOG, 0 points in 46 TOI


Hard not to like Desharnais, he's a good dude and a max effort guy, but he's one of the worst players I've seen get a regular shift on an NHL team. Besides the fact I hate small players and he's listed at a generous 5' 7" and isn't like one of those bulldog short guys like Gallagher, Zuccarello, Marchand, he's not a strong skater and easily moved off the puck.

I'd rather play a goalie at center than Desharnais.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 10/13/2017 11:29 am : link
I'm surprised how many are so down on Hayes. I'm not a big fan of how AV uses him (I think Hayes deserves PP time and more OZ starts), and I don't have many criticisms of AV's handling of forwards.

pj, there's about ten guys I think are 'franchise centers', maybe a bit less. I don't think Duchene/Turris are there, either. Duchene had his 10/11 and 13/14 seasons that make people think he is, but I'm not sure he's that player. I can see Galchenyuk+small pieces being a fair deal - maybe Duchene reverts to that form in a new environment - but it certainly wouldn't excite me as a Habs fan.

Can we get a real thread starter tonight?
I'm pretty busy tonight  
B in ALB : 10/13/2017 11:31 am : link
Busiest sports night in years - Syracuse vs Clemson, Yankees ALCS, kid's HS game tonight, Rangers.

But I might give it a whirl.
RE: ....  
pjcas18 : 10/13/2017 11:41 am : link
In comment 13646789 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I'm surprised how many are so down on Hayes. I'm not a big fan of how AV uses him (I think Hayes deserves PP time and more OZ starts), and I don't have many criticisms of AV's handling of forwards.

pj, there's about ten guys I think are 'franchise centers', maybe a bit less. I don't think Duchene/Turris are there, either. Duchene had his 10/11 and 13/14 seasons that make people think he is, but I'm not sure he's that player. I can see Galchenyuk+small pieces being a fair deal - maybe Duchene reverts to that form in a new environment - but it certainly wouldn't excite me as a Habs fan.

Can we get a real thread starter tonight?


Agree Brett, but I do think Tavares is a legit 1C, and I know people (like Davisian) hate signing big $$ free agents, but IMO any team that signs Tavares is making a good signing.

He's not a flashy finesse euro goal scorer, he's one of those 10 best centers in the league.

I don't think MTL has the cap space to sign him, and not sure who does, but I'd try to sign him assuming he hits FA.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 10/13/2017 11:47 am : link
I agree, Tavares is a top ten player whose numbers have been held back by crap line-mates, imo. I'm not really high on the Habs right now, but they'd be a contender if they signed him.

McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Matthews, Tavares, Backstrom, Seguin, Getzlaf, Scheifele, Bergeron, Toews, Stamkos, and obviously Chytil are the guys I'd put as franchise C's.

I might be being a little generous on a name or two there. I'm on the fence on Kopitar - not sure whether he's in decline or just had an off-year. But he'd be there too if he gets back to form.
RE: ....  
pjcas18 : 10/13/2017 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13646822 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I agree, Tavares is a top ten player whose numbers have been held back by crap line-mates, imo. I'm not really high on the Habs right now, but they'd be a contender if they signed him.

McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Matthews, Tavares, Backstrom, Seguin, Getzlaf, Scheifele, Bergeron, Toews, Stamkos, and obviously Chytil are the guys I'd put as franchise C's.

I might be being a little generous on a name or two there. I'm on the fence on Kopitar - not sure whether he's in decline or just had an off-year. But he'd be there too if he gets back to form.


Each year the past 8 years or so I'd have put Bergeron in top 5 and I think he'll get strong consideration for the HOF, maybe the best two-way center I've seen in the past 20 years; such a smart player. But he's not top 10 anymore. He's not far off, but I think he's in the 11 - 15 class right now.

otherwise your list is exactly as I'd have it with of course Chytil.


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