and the Rangers situation at the time I'd definitely consider Jumbo Joe at the deadline.
I wouldn't trade more than say a 4th round pick or a journeyman minor leaguer for him, but if SJS is out of it and he's only there for this year, he'd be perfect for the stretch. And will probably be dealt.
Of course he'd still need to be playing at a relatively high level.
He can still dish it with the best of them and of course I've said many times I don't care for the finesse big guys, but he's still decent on the dots, can play PP, PK, and even a regular shift if you need it.
Would be like those teams acquiring Recchi, Iginla, Jagr, etc.
"In clarification of the nine-game rule Chytil can play out the year in the AHL and still have his year slide on his entry level contract. This is, ultimately, a good way for him to get a top-line role and North American experience; presuming, of course, Hartfords coaching changes have righted the ship in terms of player development. This might be ideal, since Chytil will get a real role in North America, while also keeping his ELC at three years. "
I can't imagine his leash is all that long with Gorton. Benching two of Gorton's acquisitions for trash has to piss him off.
This is why I don't get Gordon - not only did Gorton acquire them, but one of the reasons they dealt Stepan was to clear salary cap space to re-sign Smith. Why does he put up with this shit by Vigneault?
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Whose names aren't Staal or Girardi, that is
A rare error from Greg, they are not dmen, they play the position of dmen, but they are not.
Agree with Kyle, Smith and DeAngelo were pretty bad during multiple stretches, but there does have to be a learning curve. Vigneault may be feeling the pressure, and the omens from Henrik are not going to help. (Could have the makings of a craptacular year for NY sports. I guess the Yanks are still in it, though)
Canadiens vs the Rangers 68% (obviously only in 5v5 play the PP minutes seemed skewed without looking it up).
Corsi is officially stupid as an indicator of anything useful.
Something that calculated quality is probably a more accurate analytic, since all that possession and poor quality chances probably tires you out when you get back to the defensive zone (IMO).
and MTL can fire Julien and have AV replace him completing the most bizarre cycle in sports coaching retreads.
In 2000 AV was head coach of MTL, after a slow start in December of that year he was fired and replaced by Therrien, who was fired in 2003 and replaced by Julien.
fast forward to 2012 Therrien hired for a 2nd stint by MTL then fired in 2017 and replaced by Julien, who will eventually be fired and replaced by AV.
I know you're all probably of me saying it, but they're all the same coach. and they speak French which is a prerequisite.
Ruff might be good in NY for Hank's remaining years he's a players coach, and definitely the anti-AV/Therrien/Julien, he coaches a wide open style, that helps young creative players (like Seguin) thrive and I bet guys like JT Miller and Kreider would completely blossom under Ruff (offensively) if it's not too late. Problem is it high reward, high risk and doesn't always compute to W's.
If they had Hank in his prime still I'd say he's a good match for the Rangers talent.
not so sure now.
Yeah something stinks with the way vigNooooo is doing business here
It's one thing to have a blindspot/mancrush on a guy like Glass but how he's handling this roster so far smacks of snubbbing his nose at his boss. Not something you really want to do if you're seriously interested in keeping the job you have...
He's been making more and more head scratching decisions the longer he's been behind the Rangers bench. Frankly I'll hold the door open for him at this point if he's given the boot.
This coach is absolutely clueless when it comes to deploying his players in the correct situations. It's mind-boggling. How can someone who has been around the game this long have such an issue with shit like this?
I don't know why I even watch anything at this point. Nothing but aggravation. Part of being a fan, I guess. Just so frustrating. Everywhere I turn, the team I watch is fucking garbage.
just play an extended stretch of games with our best defensive personnel out there and give them some time to get going? Is that so much to ask?
We had a tough time generating chances with Holden, Kampfer, and Staal playing on defense and moving the puck? Well I'm just shocked by that!
Was pretty excited to finally see a real defense this season but this coach can't get it right. Gorton has to be fuming. He should have Kampfer on a bus to Hartford tomorrow, never to return. Keep taking away the toys.
This fucking team should be the envy of more than half the league with a D of Mac, Shatty, Skjei, Smith and DeAngelo and instead we trot out a pair of Holden/Kampfer and give them legit second pair minutes
I'm fucking through with this coach
Someone on BSB said Kampfer was skating with McD in the 3rd???
This team is really weak up the middle. The fact that we've been held to two or fewer goals in 3 of 4 games, Mika is pretty much the only forward producing, and are having a really difficult time in general scoring 5x5 isn't entirely due to defensive pairing combinations.
For whatever reason Gorton decided Hayes was ready to center the second line and that we could scrap together 3rd and 4th line centers. I get that the future may be better when the two draft picks are ready but Again I don't see how we are better positioned in a few years than at least half the league. And I have no idea who Carey and Cracknell are.
It's only 4 games I guess but the talent level on the ice last night isn't good enough to make the playoffs. I hope the coach and maybe even the GM wake up and get it together.
AV is giving a big FU to Gorton. How much longer can this really be tolerated? We gave Smith a big contract to play 2nd to maybe 3rd pair minutes not ride the press box. We traded Stepan for cap relief and prospects. One of those prospects is NHL ready. He doesn't get better by sitting.
DeAngelo hasn't impressed, but I'd give him reps over Kampfer. Kampfer does nothing well and has zero potential.
I don't have the hatred for Holden everyone else does - I'm fine with him getting spot starts here and there as the 6th dman. But Kampfer is absolute garbage.
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I don't know, here was #NYR early in practice: McD-Holden, Staal-Shattenkirk, Skjei-Smith. Also, 26-51-10, 40-28-25, 61-13-36, 20-93-89.
Vegas' supply of defensemen they're willing to trade (who are all mostly comparable/better than Holden) is hurting the market.
This defense has the talent to be a top ten unit.
Gorton's comments this off-season (about Smith/Skjei/McD/Shattenkirk being top four) as well as what Shattenkirk said at the time of signing about playing with McDonagh makes me think management had a much different vision of the defense.
Vegas' supply of defensemen they're willing to trade (who are all mostly comparable/better than Holden) is hurting the market.
This defense has the talent to be a top ten unit.
Gorton's comments this off-season (about Smith/Skjei/McD/Shattenkirk being top four) as well as what Shattenkirk said at the time of signing about playing with McDonagh makes me think management had a much different vision of the defense.
I think that's ambitious, not a fan of Smith. and I still believe Shattenkirk is slightly more than a PP QB.
Love McD and Skjei but not top 10 as a group especially not if Staal is part of the 3rd pair. He's toast.
Outside of Preds/Sharks/Flames/Ducks/Canes, I think there's a lot of mediocrity on D, so I don't think top ten is pushing it.
I saw a ranking from last Feb that had the Rangers D 29th. That's probably low.
In addition to the ones you named I love the Flyers D unfortunately and don't forget on the Blues, Shattenkirk was kind of an afterthought I like the Blues D more too. I like the Wild and Panthers more than the Rangers D.
I'd also include OTT and LA simply by having all-world D on each of their teams.
to 15 might be realistic, but after the top few standout D's it's a relative anyway and if I were ranking D corps I'd have the Rangers in the 15 - 20 range.
I saw a ranking from last Feb that had the Rangers D 29th. That's probably low.
In addition to the ones you named I love the Flyers D
Since then they added Smith and Shattenkirk, and Skjei came of age later in the year with an exceptional postseason. They dumped Girardi and Klein, who were a big reason for the #29 ranking. I could easily see a jump to the 10-12 range.
I remain a lot more concerned about the 2017-2018 center play than the defense. I'm wishing, admittedly based on early returns, that they'd dumped Hayes instead of Stepan.
The Defense is on this coaching staff - if they dont want to play their best guys, then they'll suffer the consequences soon enough. But we are terrible up the middle this season, even with Mika's early season PP terrificness, in large part because Coach Dipshit doesnt want to give the kids a chance.
Don't worry, the Habs are going to give us Galchenyuk for
There are actually a lot of quality C's who will be FA's this off-season or are available for trades. I tend to think the secondary options (a 2/3C-type rather than a Turris/Tavares) are more likely due to cap/asset constraints.
might require a new coach to get the kids up here... but I think the top 3 C's are in the organization right now (and thats with Hayes eventually exiting stage right)
just have to be patient, something NY'ers are not good at. Its putting our 2017-2018 season at risk though (I never bought into this 'lock to make playoffs' that so many including King Jinx himself, pjcas, was espousing in preseason)
All 4 of my teams this year in the fucking basement of their divisions. Its fuckin' great.
if I'm a jinx at all, I picked them to win the cup the past two years.
and Brett, I agree with you, but IMO the Rangers past two playoffs stalled because of D, not C.
There isn't a lot of legit 1C's in the NHL, they're like franchise QB's, when you have a shot at one you take it. IMO Tavares will be worth every penny he gets. Turris isn't a 1C IMO and either is Duchene.
we are talking about the present, you keep bringing up the past. Everyone agrees the Rangers D sucked last two years. They've changed personnel since at both D (now better) and at C (much worse, not just Stepan but also the big O)
Hard not to like Desharnais, he's a good dude and a max effort guy, but he's one of the worst players I've seen get a regular shift on an NHL team. Besides the fact I hate small players and he's listed at a generous 5' 7" and isn't like one of those bulldog short guys like Gallagher, Zuccarello, Marchand, he's not a strong skater and easily moved off the puck.
I'd rather play a goalie at center than Desharnais.
I'm surprised how many are so down on Hayes. I'm not a big fan of how AV uses him (I think Hayes deserves PP time and more OZ starts), and I don't have many criticisms of AV's handling of forwards.
pj, there's about ten guys I think are 'franchise centers', maybe a bit less. I don't think Duchene/Turris are there, either. Duchene had his 10/11 and 13/14 seasons that make people think he is, but I'm not sure he's that player. I can see Galchenyuk+small pieces being a fair deal - maybe Duchene reverts to that form in a new environment - but it certainly wouldn't excite me as a Habs fan.
I'm surprised how many are so down on Hayes. I'm not a big fan of how AV uses him (I think Hayes deserves PP time and more OZ starts), and I don't have many criticisms of AV's handling of forwards.
pj, there's about ten guys I think are 'franchise centers', maybe a bit less. I don't think Duchene/Turris are there, either. Duchene had his 10/11 and 13/14 seasons that make people think he is, but I'm not sure he's that player. I can see Galchenyuk+small pieces being a fair deal - maybe Duchene reverts to that form in a new environment - but it certainly wouldn't excite me as a Habs fan.
Can we get a real thread starter tonight?
Agree Brett, but I do think Tavares is a legit 1C, and I know people (like Davisian) hate signing big $$ free agents, but IMO any team that signs Tavares is making a good signing.
He's not a flashy finesse euro goal scorer, he's one of those 10 best centers in the league.
I don't think MTL has the cap space to sign him, and not sure who does, but I'd try to sign him assuming he hits FA.
I agree, Tavares is a top ten player whose numbers have been held back by crap line-mates, imo. I'm not really high on the Habs right now, but they'd be a contender if they signed him.
McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Matthews, Tavares, Backstrom, Seguin, Getzlaf, Scheifele, Bergeron, Toews, Stamkos, and obviously Chytil are the guys I'd put as franchise C's.
I might be being a little generous on a name or two there. I'm on the fence on Kopitar - not sure whether he's in decline or just had an off-year. But he'd be there too if he gets back to form.
I agree, Tavares is a top ten player whose numbers have been held back by crap line-mates, imo. I'm not really high on the Habs right now, but they'd be a contender if they signed him.
McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Matthews, Tavares, Backstrom, Seguin, Getzlaf, Scheifele, Bergeron, Toews, Stamkos, and obviously Chytil are the guys I'd put as franchise C's.
I might be being a little generous on a name or two there. I'm on the fence on Kopitar - not sure whether he's in decline or just had an off-year. But he'd be there too if he gets back to form.
Each year the past 8 years or so I'd have put Bergeron in top 5 and I think he'll get strong consideration for the HOF, maybe the best two-way center I've seen in the past 20 years; such a smart player. But he's not top 10 anymore. He's not far off, but I think he's in the 11 - 15 class right now.
otherwise your list is exactly as I'd have it with of course Chytil.
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Good to see Veeeeeeeenyo give him every available opportunity.
Why hasn't that fuck been fired yet again?
No thanks on Thornton. He's 38 yrs old. Reeks of the kind of trade the Rnagers traditionally make in desperation trying to end the Curse.
Interesting dpairs in practice
Staal - McDonagh
Skjei - Shattenkirk
Smith - D'Angelo
Kampfer - Holden
Can we just give away Holden already? Gorts has to take him away from AV. Maybe Roy can talk him up to another team?
I wouldn't trade more than say a 4th round pick or a journeyman minor leaguer for him, but if SJS is out of it and he's only there for this year, he'd be perfect for the stretch. And will probably be dealt.
Of course he'd still need to be playing at a relatively high level.
He can still dish it with the best of them and of course I've said many times I don't care for the finesse big guys, but he's still decent on the dots, can play PP, PK, and even a regular shift if you need it.
Would be like those teams acquiring Recchi, Iginla, Jagr, etc.
Why not at least bring up Nieves or Lettieri to fill out the lineup rather than some middling borderline player
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Holden and Kampfer back in, per AV. Smith, DeAngelo out
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Holden and Kampfer back in, per AV. Smith, DeAngelo out
Fuck our coach.
Slats, Smith, Espo, the Cat. We could go on.
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Holden and Kampfer back in, per AV. Smith, DeAngelo out
This guy has to go.
Absolutely ridiculous.
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Holden and Kampfer back in, per AV. Smith, DeAngelo out
Holy shit.....
2014 was a long time ago. Card's been cancelled.
"In clarification of the nine-game rule Chytil can play out the year in the AHL and still have his year slide on his entry level contract. This is, ultimately, a good way for him to get a top-line role and North American experience; presuming, of course, Hartfords coaching changes have righted the ship in terms of player development. This might be ideal, since Chytil will get a real role in North America, while also keeping his ELC at three years. "
Whose names aren't Staal or Girardi, that is
This is why I don't get Gordon - not only did Gorton acquire them, but one of the reasons they dealt Stepan was to clear salary cap space to re-sign Smith. Why does he put up with this shit by Vigneault?
Quote:
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Whose names aren't Staal or Girardi, that is
Agree with Kyle, Smith and DeAngelo were pretty bad during multiple stretches, but there does have to be a learning curve. Vigneault may be feeling the pressure, and the omens from Henrik are not going to help. (Could have the makings of a craptacular year for NY sports. I guess the Yanks are still in it, though)
Canadiens vs the Rangers 68% (obviously only in 5v5 play the PP minutes seemed skewed without looking it up).
Corsi is officially stupid as an indicator of anything useful.
Something that calculated quality is probably a more accurate analytic, since all that possession and poor quality chances probably tires you out when you get back to the defensive zone (IMO).
Now I remember.
God this is going to be a fun couple of months with my two favorite teams and their brain dead coaches.
In 2000 AV was head coach of MTL, after a slow start in December of that year he was fired and replaced by Therrien, who was fired in 2003 and replaced by Julien.
fast forward to 2012 Therrien hired for a 2nd stint by MTL then fired in 2017 and replaced by Julien, who will eventually be fired and replaced by AV.
I know you're all probably of me saying it, but they're all the same coach. and they speak French which is a prerequisite.
Ruff might be good in NY for Hank's remaining years he's a players coach, and definitely the anti-AV/Therrien/Julien, he coaches a wide open style, that helps young creative players (like Seguin) thrive and I bet guys like JT Miller and Kreider would completely blossom under Ruff (offensively) if it's not too late. Problem is it high reward, high risk and doesn't always compute to W's.
If they had Hank in his prime still I'd say he's a good match for the Rangers talent.
not so sure now.
He's been making more and more head scratching decisions the longer he's been behind the Rangers bench. Frankly I'll hold the door open for him at this point if he's given the boot.
Zib ties it PPG
The man is fucking repulsive.
The man is fucking repulsive.
It's not that bad.
(Runs away)
I'm not sure I can take another season of this...
Fingers crossed that we've already got Hank's heir apparent in waiting there.
I don't know why I even watch anything at this point. Nothing but aggravation. Part of being a fan, I guess. Just so frustrating. Everywhere I turn, the team I watch is fucking garbage.
We had a tough time generating chances with Holden, Kampfer, and Staal playing on defense and moving the puck? Well I'm just shocked by that!
Was pretty excited to finally see a real defense this season but this coach can't get it right. Gorton has to be fuming. He should have Kampfer on a bus to Hartford tomorrow, never to return. Keep taking away the toys.
This fucking team should be the envy of more than half the league with a D of Mac, Shatty, Skjei, Smith and DeAngelo and instead we trot out a pair of Holden/Kampfer and give them legit second pair minutes
I'm fucking through with this coach
Vigneault's patience with players is inversely proportional to that player's level of talent. It's insane.
For whatever reason Gorton decided Hayes was ready to center the second line and that we could scrap together 3rd and 4th line centers. I get that the future may be better when the two draft picks are ready but Again I don't see how we are better positioned in a few years than at least half the league. And I have no idea who Carey and Cracknell are.
It's only 4 games I guess but the talent level on the ice last night isn't good enough to make the playoffs. I hope the coach and maybe even the GM wake up and get it together.
Vigneault's patience with players is inversely proportional to that player's level of talent. It's insane.
In the last five minutes, if I recall correctly.
I'm fine with the benching if that's the case. I just don't think Kampfer should be the beneficiary of that.
I don't have the hatred for Holden everyone else does - I'm fine with him getting spot starts here and there as the 6th dman. But Kampfer is absolute garbage.
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I don't know, here was #NYR early in practice: McD-Holden, Staal-Shattenkirk, Skjei-Smith. Also, 26-51-10, 40-28-25, 61-13-36, 20-93-89.
... to top pair by game 5.
Makes sense, AV.
=Championship
Even the devils and vegas each have three wins
Canadiens reportedly shopping Streit, Morrow and Davidson, didn't expect Mete to look as good as he has.
Maybe the Rangers want to shop Holden and it's hard to shop a guy who is a healthy scratch.
Or maybe just giving them too much credit.
This defense has the talent to be a top ten unit.
Gorton's comments this off-season (about Smith/Skjei/McD/Shattenkirk being top four) as well as what Shattenkirk said at the time of signing about playing with McDonagh makes me think management had a much different vision of the defense.
This defense has the talent to be a top ten unit.
Gorton's comments this off-season (about Smith/Skjei/McD/Shattenkirk being top four) as well as what Shattenkirk said at the time of signing about playing with McDonagh makes me think management had a much different vision of the defense.
I think that's ambitious, not a fan of Smith. and I still believe Shattenkirk is slightly more than a PP QB.
Love McD and Skjei but not top 10 as a group especially not if Staal is part of the 3rd pair. He's toast.
Outside of Preds/Sharks/Flames/Ducks/Canes, I think there's a lot of mediocrity on D, so I don't think top ten is pushing it.
Outside of Preds/Sharks/Flames/Ducks/Canes, I think there's a lot of mediocrity on D, so I don't think top ten is pushing it.
I saw a ranking from last Feb that had the Rangers D 29th. That's probably low.
In addition to the ones you named I love the Flyers D unfortunately and don't forget on the Blues, Shattenkirk was kind of an afterthought I like the Blues D more too. I like the Wild and Panthers more than the Rangers D.
I'd also include OTT and LA simply by having all-world D on each of their teams.
to 15 might be realistic, but after the top few standout D's it's a relative anyway and if I were ranking D corps I'd have the Rangers in the 15 - 20 range.
I saw a ranking from last Feb that had the Rangers D 29th. That's probably low.
In addition to the ones you named I love the Flyers D
Since then they added Smith and Shattenkirk, and Skjei came of age later in the year with an exceptional postseason. They dumped Girardi and Klein, who were a big reason for the #29 ranking. I could easily see a jump to the 10-12 range.
I remain a lot more concerned about the 2017-2018 center play than the defense. I'm wishing, admittedly based on early returns, that they'd dumped Hayes instead of Stepan.
The Defense is on this coaching staff - if they dont want to play their best guys, then they'll suffer the consequences soon enough. But we are terrible up the middle this season, even with Mika's early season PP terrificness, in large part because Coach Dipshit doesnt want to give the kids a chance.
LOL, and he'll become a top 2 center. if MTL didn't have a surplus of awful D I'd be worried about that trade.
just have to be patient, something NY'ers are not good at. Its putting our 2017-2018 season at risk though (I never bought into this 'lock to make playoffs' that so many including King Jinx himself, pjcas, was espousing in preseason)
All 4 of my teams this year in the fucking basement of their divisions. Its fuckin' great.
and Brett, I agree with you, but IMO the Rangers past two playoffs stalled because of D, not C.
There isn't a lot of legit 1C's in the NHL, they're like franchise QB's, when you have a shot at one you take it. IMO Tavares will be worth every penny he gets. Turris isn't a 1C IMO and either is Duchene.
Hard not to like Desharnais, he's a good dude and a max effort guy, but he's one of the worst players I've seen get a regular shift on an NHL team. Besides the fact I hate small players and he's listed at a generous 5' 7" and isn't like one of those bulldog short guys like Gallagher, Zuccarello, Marchand, he's not a strong skater and easily moved off the puck.
I'd rather play a goalie at center than Desharnais.
pj, there's about ten guys I think are 'franchise centers', maybe a bit less. I don't think Duchene/Turris are there, either. Duchene had his 10/11 and 13/14 seasons that make people think he is, but I'm not sure he's that player. I can see Galchenyuk+small pieces being a fair deal - maybe Duchene reverts to that form in a new environment - but it certainly wouldn't excite me as a Habs fan.
Can we get a real thread starter tonight?
But I might give it a whirl.
pj, there's about ten guys I think are 'franchise centers', maybe a bit less. I don't think Duchene/Turris are there, either. Duchene had his 10/11 and 13/14 seasons that make people think he is, but I'm not sure he's that player. I can see Galchenyuk+small pieces being a fair deal - maybe Duchene reverts to that form in a new environment - but it certainly wouldn't excite me as a Habs fan.
Can we get a real thread starter tonight?
Agree Brett, but I do think Tavares is a legit 1C, and I know people (like Davisian) hate signing big $$ free agents, but IMO any team that signs Tavares is making a good signing.
He's not a flashy finesse euro goal scorer, he's one of those 10 best centers in the league.
I don't think MTL has the cap space to sign him, and not sure who does, but I'd try to sign him assuming he hits FA.
McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Matthews, Tavares, Backstrom, Seguin, Getzlaf, Scheifele, Bergeron, Toews, Stamkos, and obviously Chytil are the guys I'd put as franchise C's.
I might be being a little generous on a name or two there. I'm on the fence on Kopitar - not sure whether he's in decline or just had an off-year. But he'd be there too if he gets back to form.
McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Matthews, Tavares, Backstrom, Seguin, Getzlaf, Scheifele, Bergeron, Toews, Stamkos, and obviously Chytil are the guys I'd put as franchise C's.
I might be being a little generous on a name or two there. I'm on the fence on Kopitar - not sure whether he's in decline or just had an off-year. But he'd be there too if he gets back to form.
Each year the past 8 years or so I'd have put Bergeron in top 5 and I think he'll get strong consideration for the HOF, maybe the best two-way center I've seen in the past 20 years; such a smart player. But he's not top 10 anymore. He's not far off, but I think he's in the 11 - 15 class right now.
otherwise your list is exactly as I'd have it with of course Chytil.