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What does McAdoo need to do in order to keep his job in '18?

Tom in NY : 10/10/2017 1:35 pm
18 months ago, as a very young Head Coach, he takes over for Tom Coughlin and "manages" the team to an 11-5 season, with very little running game, medicore Oline, and only 1 true wideout.

A full 18 months later, with more or less the same mediocre Oline, the team has regressed...perhaps to the point of no return. There are, however, 11 games left to play, with a 2 time Super Bowl MVP, and some good young players on defense.

If you're John Mara, what would McAdoo need to do with this hodge podge of team to give you confidence that he might be a young coach with a good future?

I know many will be quick to fire back with answers such as he can't save his job, fire him now, etc....but in all reality, John Mara invested 2 years in McAdoo as his OC, and now 2 more as the HC, he is not going to want to just throw that investment away.

My list:
1. Show some development of Davis Webb. McAdoo is supposed to be a great QB coach...let's see it!
2.Regather the defense...get them to play with aggression/pride/enthusiasm.
3. Shuffle the Oline to see if there are any pieces that can be used in '18, and going forward. Is Wheeler a player? Can Jones hold up in the NFL?
4. Amongst the "new" WR corps, is there a player or two that can help next year?
5. Can they develop a gameplan that takes advantage of Engram's unique skill set?

I agree, if the team goes 0-16/1-15, there is no conversation about bringing anyone back, but for the purposes of this thread...what would you like to see from McAdoo if you were John Mara?

...oh, by the way, I would let Jerry Reese know today that his services are no longer needed...and thank you for the 2 rings you helped bring us. You haven't fixed the Oline issue since 2011....7 years is enough time.
Win 11 in a row  
Matt M. : 10/10/2017 1:36 pm : link
and make the playoffs.
You'd fire Reese and keep McAdoo?  
jcn56 : 10/10/2017 1:37 pm : link
What incoming GM would want the previous regime's coach, especially after a season like this one?
Right now, if I'm Mara  
Matt M. : 10/10/2017 1:38 pm : link
I'm preparing my list of potential GMs and I am making plans to fire Reese, McAdoo, and the entire coaching staff the day after the season ends.
RE: Win 11 in a row  
Tom in NY : 10/10/2017 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13641557 Matt M. said:
Quote:
and make the playoffs.


Matt, thank you for sharing an example of the type of response I was trying to avoid in this thread.
It's time for a new regime  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 10/10/2017 1:41 pm : link
No more half measures.
RE: You'd fire Reese and keep McAdoo?  
Tom in NY : 10/10/2017 1:41 pm : link
In comment 13641558 jcn56 said:
Quote:
What incoming GM would want the previous regime's coach, especially after a season like this one?


How'd that work out for Gettleman in Carolina with Ron Rivera? Didn't they go to a Super Bowl together? Isn't Rivera currently tied for 1st place with Carolina today?

It can be done.

I'd allow the GM the opportunity to make their own decision, but only if McAdoo shows us something on the list I provided.
Prove  
EJJ : 10/10/2017 1:42 pm : link
he's a leader of men! To many leadership questions about the team have popped up. Apple makes the culture comment. What does he bring to the table as a coach to convince management he isn't part of the problem.
RE: Right now, if I'm Mara  
Tom in NY : 10/10/2017 1:42 pm : link
In comment 13641559 Matt M. said:
Quote:
I'm preparing my list of potential GMs and I am making plans to fire Reese, McAdoo, and the entire coaching staff the day after the season ends.


The same staff that got you to the playoffs after a 5 year drought? There's nothing they can do to save their jobs with 11 games to go?
RE: Prove  
Tom in NY : 10/10/2017 1:43 pm : link
In comment 13641569 EJJ said:
Quote:
he's a leader of men! To many leadership questions about the team have popped up. Apple makes the culture comment. What does he bring to the table as a coach to convince management he isn't part of the problem.


Very fair point...and one that I would agree he needs to show as well (if he has it in him).
first and foremost.....  
BillKo : 10/10/2017 1:43 pm : link
...win some games.

If this team goes 2-14, he's gone.
RE: RE: Win 11 in a row  
Matt M. : 10/10/2017 1:45 pm : link
In comment 13641562 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13641557 Matt M. said:


Quote:


and make the playoffs.



Matt, thank you for sharing an example of the type of response I was trying to avoid in this thread.
Tom - It's an honest answer. Barring a miracle finish to this season, I don't think McAdoo should be even considered for a return. The entire coaching stuff + Reese should be gone.
And by the way, I don't like the fire him now approach  
Matt M. : 10/10/2017 1:46 pm : link
Mainly because I don't think the next HC should be plucked from this coaching staff. So, what is the point in firing him now and making Spags an interim HC?
RE: RE: RE: Win 11 in a row  
Tom in NY : 10/10/2017 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13641577 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 13641562 Tom in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 13641557 Matt M. said:


Quote:


and make the playoffs.



Matt, thank you for sharing an example of the type of response I was trying to avoid in this thread.

Tom - It's an honest answer. Barring a miracle finish to this season, I don't think McAdoo should be even considered for a return. The entire coaching stuff + Reese should be gone.


So despite winning 11 games last year, you would fire him based upon the 0-5 start...and not having had any help from Reese in addressing the Oline? Nothing the guy can do?
RE: first and foremost.....  
Tom in NY : 10/10/2017 1:49 pm : link
In comment 13641574 BillKo said:
Quote:
...win some games.

If this team goes 2-14, he's gone.


Agreed! As noted above, there is no coach coming back from that type of disaster.
What else does he need to do?
Given the roster he has been provided..what would be considered a success over 11 games?
Swallow?  
Reale01 : 10/10/2017 1:52 pm : link
Seriously, he has to show that he can pull the team out of the tailspin. That is not easy to do. He has not faced this kind of adversity - how he reacts will make all the difference.
RE: Swallow?  
Tom in NY : 10/10/2017 1:55 pm : link
In comment 13641589 Reale01 said:
Quote:
Seriously, he has to show that he can pull the team out of the tailspin. That is not easy to do. He has not faced this kind of adversity - how he reacts will make all the difference.


I like the serious part of your answer...and a quality winning coaches need to show.

I'd like to see the kind of fight the Bears showed in last night's game. Undermanned, banged up....but in the game and aggressive. I'm not a big John Fox (as HC) fan, but I thought that was a good coaching job last night.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Win 11 in a row  
Matt M. : 10/10/2017 1:57 pm : link
In comment 13641579 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13641577 Matt M. said:


Quote:


In comment 13641562 Tom in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 13641557 Matt M. said:


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and make the playoffs.



Matt, thank you for sharing an example of the type of response I was trying to avoid in this thread.

Tom - It's an honest answer. Barring a miracle finish to this season, I don't think McAdoo should be even considered for a return. The entire coaching stuff + Reese should be gone.



So despite winning 11 games last year, you would fire him based upon the 0-5 start...and not having had any help from Reese in addressing the Oline? Nothing the guy can do?
Tom - Even last year I had a lot of issues with McAdoo. I think they won 11 games despite him. I think too much of the same coaching staff was held over and needs to go. I think McAdoo has shown no ability to both be a HC and call plays and has an unwillingness to admit that, to alter his gameplans, etc. I am not enamored with him, his coaching style, his leadership, or the way his entire offense changed once he became HC, even the personnel was similar.
And he is partially responsible for the roster.  
Matt M. : 10/10/2017 2:01 pm : link
And responsible for the way the current roster is utilized. It is him who keeps trotting a totally useless Jerry out there. It is him who was fine throwing Eli under the bus, but not Flowers or OBJ for his antics. It was him who didn't want a FB last year and cut his FB this year. It is him who continued to run 11 personnel almost exclusively. And on and on. He is stubborn to a fault. It wasn't his offense that was the reason they won 11 games. It was a much improved defense coupled with facing a string of bad QBs. I think Spags gets a little too much credit also.
will the  
Les in TO : 10/10/2017 2:07 pm : link
team fight hard like they did after starting 0-6 in 2013, leading to a 7-9 finish and meaningful football late in the season? or will they lay down like they did after Collins was injured in 2003?

how will he adapt his offense now that its centerpiece, heart and soul is out for the season?
Take his fucking head out of his ass  
SHO'NUFF : 10/10/2017 2:13 pm : link
and make some adjustments with your current personnel.
RE: Right now, if I'm Mara  
jlukes : 10/10/2017 2:14 pm : link
In comment 13641559 Matt M. said:
Quote:
I'm preparing my list of potential GMs and I am making plans to fire Reese, McAdoo, and the entire coaching staff the day after the season ends.


Reese inherited Coughlin
RE: And he is partially responsible for the roster.  
Tom in NY : 10/10/2017 2:17 pm : link
In comment 13641607 Matt M. said:
Quote:
And responsible for the way the current roster is utilized. It is him who keeps trotting a totally useless Jerry out there. It is him who was fine throwing Eli under the bus, but not Flowers or OBJ for his antics. It was him who didn't want a FB last year and cut his FB this year. It is him who continued to run 11 personnel almost exclusively. And on and on. He is stubborn to a fault. It wasn't his offense that was the reason they won 11 games. It was a much improved defense coupled with facing a string of bad QBs. I think Spags gets a little too much credit also.


These are all fair points...with one exception, I never accept when it's written that a team has "..won in despite of..." the Head Coach/Manager. You can't criticize the losing, and not give credit for the winning. MAYBE, recognizing the state of his Oline and his QB's immobility, he decided his team's best chance to win was with a more conservative offense, and rely on the Defense to get turnovers?

Mara may very well decide to move on from McAdoo, but it would be an incredible waste of the last 4 years.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Win 11 in a row  
GiantGrit : 10/10/2017 2:27 pm : link
In comment 13641579 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13641577 Matt M. said:


Quote:


In comment 13641562 Tom in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 13641557 Matt M. said:


Quote:


and make the playoffs.



Matt, thank you for sharing an example of the type of response I was trying to avoid in this thread.

Tom - It's an honest answer. Barring a miracle finish to this season, I don't think McAdoo should be even considered for a return. The entire coaching stuff + Reese should be gone.



So despite winning 11 games last year, you would fire him based upon the 0-5 start...and not having had any help from Reese in addressing the Oline? Nothing the guy can do?




So you want to give him credit for going 11-5, but its completely on Reese for going 0-5 this year? They shuffled the offensive line and its looked better. Still mediocre, but you can still scheme around it. What took him so long to tinker with a failing group? Why did it take him so long to play Gallman? He cares more about winning his way than actually winning; everyone could see they needed to keep running the ball last Sunday but that is not what Mac wants; he'd rather lose throwing the ball. Why not use 12 personnel when Eli has been requesting it for weeks? He finally turned the music off in practice when they're going over important information...why was it on in the first place during that time? Btw, our all-pro wide receivers ankle snapped last week, and he stared at his play sheet the whole time he was lying on the ground in pain. Who wants to play for a guy like that? I judge the offense of our "offensive guru" HC because it is the best indicator of what kind of coach he is. It has gotten progressively worse each year. The two years we put up stats, he did not have complete control over the offense. And lets stop kidding ourselves; we won 11 games because our defense stepped up and the schedule was weak. What does that have to do with Mac?

But he should be gone because he lost this locker room. He's not getting it back. You can improve play calling, you can bring in better personnel, won't matter now. He lost this team, and one off-season will not change that.
Somebody owes this guy something?  
trueblueinpw : 10/10/2017 2:35 pm : link
Why is there all this concern with keeping McAdoo?

He's young? So being young is some kind of qualification to be the HC of NYG?

He's promising? Well, he's had plenty of time to fix the offense and he hasn't fixed the offense. For years now McAdoo can't solve cover 2.

McAdoo fixed Eli? Give me a fucking break - Eli won 2 SBs before McAdoo. He didn't need fixing.

McAdoo made the offense better when he became O-co? Wrong again - OBJ made the offense better.

Something else I'll add - and this hasn't been talked about much here or anywhere else - McAdoo can't coach the defense. Does anyone else think it might be a good idea to have a head coach that can at least pitch in on both sides of the ball?

I don't understand what the heck else anyone needs to know about this guy.

So, to answer the question, win an NFC Championship and feel free to stay.
Fair or unfair - They should probably move on  
AcesUp : 10/10/2017 2:40 pm : link
Especially staring at a potential franchise QB in the draft next year. It's time to wipe the slate clean. Get a new and talented GM - they should have their pick of the litter. Let him pick his coach - he should have his pick of the litter. Let them put their heads together and pick their QB of the future - unfortunately, they should have their pick of the litter.

This season has been a disaster, but it does present opportunity, ownership should seize it.
RE: RE: You'd fire Reese and keep McAdoo?  
jcn56 : 10/10/2017 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13641566 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13641558 jcn56 said:


Quote:


What incoming GM would want the previous regime's coach, especially after a season like this one?



How'd that work out for Gettleman in Carolina with Ron Rivera? Didn't they go to a Super Bowl together? Isn't Rivera currently tied for 1st place with Carolina today?

It can be done.

I'd allow the GM the opportunity to make their own decision, but only if McAdoo shows us something on the list I provided.


Yes - and where is Gettleman these days?

Thanks for proving my point!
I don't expect him to lose his job  
JonC : 10/10/2017 2:51 pm : link
and I would not argue too long with someone suggesting it's time to eliminate all half measures.
Learn another scheme  
sinister_bee98 : 10/10/2017 2:52 pm : link
and then masterfully orchestrate it using his players as a conduit
RE: RE: RE: You'd fire Reese and keep McAdoo?  
Tom in NY : 10/10/2017 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13641658 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13641566 Tom in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 13641558 jcn56 said:


Quote:


What incoming GM would want the previous regime's coach, especially after a season like this one?



How'd that work out for Gettleman in Carolina with Ron Rivera? Didn't they go to a Super Bowl together? Isn't Rivera currently tied for 1st place with Carolina today?

It can be done.

I'd allow the GM the opportunity to make their own decision, but only if McAdoo shows us something on the list I provided.



Yes - and where is Gettleman these days?

Thanks for proving my point!


Your point proven? They went to a Super Bowl together..Gettleman was released due to a personality conflict/disagreement with the owner.
It's not ideal, but it has happened, and can be successful (Reese inherited Coughlin).
RE: What does McAdoo need to do in order to keep his job in '18?  
Trainmaster : 10/10/2017 2:55 pm : link
Get a copy of the compromising pictures Tom Quinn has of the Mara family?
RE: will the  
BigBlueinChicago : 10/10/2017 2:55 pm : link
In comment 13641611 Les in TO said:
Quote:
team fight hard like they did after starting 0-6 in 2013, leading to a 7-9 finish and meaningful football late in the season? or will they lay down like they did after Collins was injured in 2003?

how will he adapt his offense now that its centerpiece, heart and soul is out for the season?


The only difference this time is when they were 0-6 in 2013, they got the all time break of having Josh Freeman (who was just signed the week before), Matt Barkley, Terrell Pryor and Scott Tolzien all IN A ROW that helped the Giants out and even gave them a chance to save the season when they faced Dallas.

This time, that list of QB's are not walking through that door. Facing those bad QB's helped the defense out. Now, the defense is poor, they know the season is over and a few are likely to make some "business decisions," which will show up on the field in the form of bad tackling and lack of concentration as if you haven't seen that already.
you have to clean house  
Vanzetti : 10/10/2017 2:58 pm : link
It's a big mistake after a total meltdown to stay the course or engage in half measures.

Giants also have to reconsider their approach of constantly staying within the organization. You need a mixture of old and new blood.

Forcing BM to have a bunch of Coughlin cronies on his staff was a recipe for disaster from the beginning.

RE: Somebody owes this guy something?  
Tom in NY : 10/10/2017 2:59 pm : link
In comment 13641638 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
Why is there all this concern with keeping McAdoo?

He's young? So being young is some kind of qualification to be the HC of NYG?

He's promising? Well, he's had plenty of time to fix the offense and he hasn't fixed the offense. For years now McAdoo can't solve cover 2.

McAdoo fixed Eli? Give me a fucking break - Eli won 2 SBs before McAdoo. He didn't need fixing.

McAdoo made the offense better when he became O-co? Wrong again - OBJ made the offense better.

Something else I'll add - and this hasn't been talked about much here or anywhere else - McAdoo can't coach the defense. Does anyone else think it might be a good idea to have a head coach that can at least pitch in on both sides of the ball?

I don't understand what the heck else anyone needs to know about this guy.

So, to answer the question, win an NFC Championship and feel free to stay.


What was the offensive production during 2014 and 2015 vs. 2013? That was McAdoo's offense.

Again, he may very well get let go...but the overreaction to a bad start to a season (and probably the end of any meaningful games this year) is a bit much to take.

Belichick, Parcells, Jimmy Johnson all had crappy seasons at the beginning of their coaching careers. Young coaches, that are good, learn from their mistakes and get better. If he can't improve/show improvement, ok then good bye...but there are 11 games left, and he currently has a .500 record through the first 22 games of his career.
Gettleman lost a power struggle  
jcn56 : 10/10/2017 3:05 pm : link
Rivera had been under fire, and there were reports prior to his dismissal that Gettleman wanted another coach.

The incoming GM will have his hands full with a guy named Mara in the front office in addition to the owner, he's not taking the job with a coach hired by his predecessor.
Doug  
Kevin in Annapolis : 10/10/2017 3:10 pm : link
says he is out at the bye
Toss Mara's salad.  
sober297 : 10/10/2017 3:10 pm : link
.
Hell no to Gettleman  
Gman11 : 10/10/2017 3:28 pm : link
Carolina couldn't get rid of him fast enough. They hated him.
He has to do three things...  
Jim in Tampa : 10/10/2017 3:48 pm : link
1. Win a minimum of 4 games, unless the previously unthinkable happens and Eli goes on IR.

2. Not lose the team- If the players are revolting (and I don't mean just their play) then it's a big problem.

3. Not lose the fans- If planes with banners are flying over the stadium and chants of "Goodbye Ben" start echoing from the crowd, it will spell doom. (Remember one of the Mara standards is to have stadium seats filled by engaged fans through December.)
I think the strategy of the Giants ownership of  
montanagiant : 10/10/2017 3:48 pm : link
doing piecemeal firings is one of the factors playing into this shitty season. At this point, they need to clean house in the FO and Coaching staff. Bring in a new GM at the earliest date possible and get a coach hired soon afterwards
RE: RE: Somebody owes this guy something?  
montanagiant : 10/10/2017 3:51 pm : link
In comment 13641678 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13641638 trueblueinpw said:


Quote:


Why is there all this concern with keeping McAdoo?

He's young? So being young is some kind of qualification to be the HC of NYG?

He's promising? Well, he's had plenty of time to fix the offense and he hasn't fixed the offense. For years now McAdoo can't solve cover 2.

McAdoo fixed Eli? Give me a fucking break - Eli won 2 SBs before McAdoo. He didn't need fixing.

McAdoo made the offense better when he became O-co? Wrong again - OBJ made the offense better.

Something else I'll add - and this hasn't been talked about much here or anywhere else - McAdoo can't coach the defense. Does anyone else think it might be a good idea to have a head coach that can at least pitch in on both sides of the ball?

I don't understand what the heck else anyone needs to know about this guy.

So, to answer the question, win an NFC Championship and feel free to stay.



What was the offensive production during 2014 and 2015 vs. 2013? That was McAdoo's offense.

Again, he may very well get let go...but the overreaction to a bad start to a season (and probably the end of any meaningful games this year) is a bit much to take.

Belichick, Parcells, Jimmy Johnson all had crappy seasons at the beginning of their coaching careers. Young coaches, that are good, learn from their mistakes and get better. If he can't improve/show improvement, ok then good bye...but there are 11 games left, and he currently has a .500 record through the first 22 games of his career.

Those two seasons he did well was because he was running a version of Coughlin's Offense. He has been abysmal running his own personal offense the last 2 years. I mean flat out horrendous with it.
If he keeps this team together  
joeinpa : 10/10/2017 4:08 pm : link
And they start playing better, say, 6-5 with wins against Eagles, Cowboys, Resskins!and someone like the Chiefs.

If he accomplishes that with this mess of a team, he should be back.
My criteria  
RetroJint : 10/10/2017 4:10 pm : link
1 Keep order. 2. Maintain a sense of professionalism that permeates throughout the organization. 3. Don't get churlish with the media. 4. Make no excuses. 4. Win a few games that are winnable . He's lost 3 of those already . 5 Make a public affirmation that he wants to be the HC of the Giants and that he will do whatever it takes to turn things around .

If he can handle that slate, I'd bring him back . He is not an untalented head coach. He is young Coughlin vouchsafed for him, which means a lot to me.Coughlin's opinions about football mean a helluva lot more to me than mine do.
RE: RE: RE: You'd fire Reese and keep McAdoo?  
burtmanjack : 10/10/2017 4:16 pm : link
In comment 13641658 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13641566 Tom in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 13641558 jcn56 said:


Quote:


What incoming GM would want the previous regime's coach, especially after a season like this one?



How'd that work out for Gettleman in Carolina with Ron Rivera? Didn't they go to a Super Bowl together? Isn't Rivera currently tied for 1st place with Carolina today?

It can be done.

I'd allow the GM the opportunity to make their own decision, but only if McAdoo shows us something on the list I provided.



Yes - and where is Gettleman these days?

Thanks for proving my point!


This is faulty, dumb logic.

Unless of course you also think Belichick's being fired by the Browns established conclusively and for all time that he is a lousy coach.
RetroJint  
joeinpa : 10/10/2017 4:21 pm : link
Truth be told. None of the critics here are qualified to really evaluate MacAdoo as a Head Coach.

Anyone can see up to now his product this season has stunk.

But we really don t know if this is just a bump in the road and a learning experience or a Ray Handley era.

Parcells and Gibbs had some very rocky moments in their early years.

Some will say, he s no Parcells. That might be true. But back in 83 many would have said the same thing about the real Tuna.
RE: Doug  
Tom in NY : 10/10/2017 4:25 pm : link
In comment 13641695 Kevin in Annapolis said:
Quote:
says he is out at the bye


...and who is "Doug?"
RE: He has to do three things...  
BigBlueinChicago : 10/10/2017 4:40 pm : link
In comment 13641734 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
1. Win a minimum of 4 games, unless the previously unthinkable happens and Eli goes on IR.

2. Not lose the team- If the players are revolting (and I don't mean just their play) then it's a big problem.

3. Not lose the fans- If planes with banners are flying over the stadium and chants of "Goodbye Ben" start echoing from the crowd, it will spell doom. (Remember one of the Mara standards is to have stadium seats filled by engaged fans through December.)


On the part of not losing the fans, the Giants schedule in December is such that ownership will still see a bunch of people in the seats, only this time it will be filled with the fans of their divisional rivals.

With the Cowboys, Eagles and Redskins all scheduled to play at MetLife in December, those seats (assuming they are not empty) will be filled with their fans (if they are still in the playoff race) by STH selling off and trying to get whatever money they can (assuming they can now) for them.

Mara/Tisch being in the stadium with over 50% of the crowd cheering for the other team, maybe that will do it.
I'd like to see the Giants show some fight..  
Sean : 10/10/2017 5:46 pm : link
Play spoiler as we have 4 more division games & win. In 2013 we finished 7-9 after starting 0-6. Can they go 7-4 the rest of the way and finish 7-9? If they do that, I'd say we have a keeper in McAdoo.

If they lay down and go 3-13, clean house.
Show up  
UberAlias : 10/10/2017 7:47 pm : link
That's all.
I like the win  
rocco8112 : 10/10/2017 8:03 pm : link
11 in a row idea. This guy gets this group into the playoffs, a feat never accomplished in NFL history. I think that no 0 - 5 team has ever made it to the playoffs.

Pull that miracle off and he should be retained. Anything short and he should be terminated the day after week 17.

time to get a real coach and GM
RE: My criteria  
rocco8112 : 10/10/2017 8:07 pm : link
In comment 13641753 RetroJint said:
Quote:
1 Keep order. 2. Maintain a sense of professionalism that permeates throughout the organization. 3. Don't get churlish with the media. 4. Make no excuses. 4. Win a few games that are winnable . He's lost 3 of those already . 5 Make a public affirmation that he wants to be the HC of the Giants and that he will do whatever it takes to turn things around .

If he can handle that slate, I'd bring him back . He is not an untalented head coach. He is young Coughlin vouchsafed for him, which means a lot to me.Coughlin's opinions about football mean a helluva lot more to me than mine do.


I love Coughlin, he is mt favorite coach of all time in any sport. But, he had a shaky record hiring assistants. I am not sure the fact that he hired McAdoo means a lot.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Win 11 in a row  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/10/2017 8:10 pm : link
In comment 13641628 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
In comment 13641579 Tom in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 13641577 Matt M. said:


Quote:


In comment 13641562 Tom in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 13641557 Matt M. said:


Quote:


and make the playoffs.



Matt, thank you for sharing an example of the type of response I was trying to avoid in this thread.

Tom - It's an honest answer. Barring a miracle finish to this season, I don't think McAdoo should be even considered for a return. The entire coaching stuff + Reese should be gone.



So despite winning 11 games last year, you would fire him based upon the 0-5 start...and not having had any help from Reese in addressing the Oline? Nothing the guy can do?





So you want to give him credit for going 11-5, but its completely on Reese for going 0-5 this year? They shuffled the offensive line and its looked better. Still mediocre, but you can still scheme around it. What took him so long to tinker with a failing group? Why did it take him so long to play Gallman? He cares more about winning his way than actually winning; everyone could see they needed to keep running the ball last Sunday but that is not what Mac wants; he'd rather lose throwing the ball. Why not use 12 personnel when Eli has been requesting it for weeks? He finally turned the music off in practice when they're going over important information...why was it on in the first place during that time? Btw, our all-pro wide receivers ankle snapped last week, and he stared at his play sheet the whole time he was lying on the ground in pain. Who wants to play for a guy like that? I judge the offense of our "offensive guru" HC because it is the best indicator of what kind of coach he is. It has gotten progressively worse each year. The two years we put up stats, he did not have complete control over the offense. And lets stop kidding ourselves; we won 11 games because our defense stepped up and the schedule was weak. What does that have to do with Mac?

But he should be gone because he lost this locker room. He's not getting it back. You can improve play calling, you can bring in better personnel, won't matter now. He lost this team, and one off-season will not change that.

Please show me one example of Eli requesting that they play more 12 personnel. I'm not saying that it's untrue, just that any speculation of "Eli has been requesting it..." rings hollow since he never comes out publicly with that sort of thing.
RE: RE: RE: Somebody owes this guy something?  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/10/2017 8:12 pm : link
In comment 13641739 montanagiant said:
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In comment 13641678 Tom in NY said:


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In comment 13641638 trueblueinpw said:


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Why is there all this concern with keeping McAdoo?

He's young? So being young is some kind of qualification to be the HC of NYG?

He's promising? Well, he's had plenty of time to fix the offense and he hasn't fixed the offense. For years now McAdoo can't solve cover 2.

McAdoo fixed Eli? Give me a fucking break - Eli won 2 SBs before McAdoo. He didn't need fixing.

McAdoo made the offense better when he became O-co? Wrong again - OBJ made the offense better.

Something else I'll add - and this hasn't been talked about much here or anywhere else - McAdoo can't coach the defense. Does anyone else think it might be a good idea to have a head coach that can at least pitch in on both sides of the ball?

I don't understand what the heck else anyone needs to know about this guy.

So, to answer the question, win an NFC Championship and feel free to stay.



What was the offensive production during 2014 and 2015 vs. 2013? That was McAdoo's offense.

Again, he may very well get let go...but the overreaction to a bad start to a season (and probably the end of any meaningful games this year) is a bit much to take.

Belichick, Parcells, Jimmy Johnson all had crappy seasons at the beginning of their coaching careers. Young coaches, that are good, learn from their mistakes and get better. If he can't improve/show improvement, ok then good bye...but there are 11 games left, and he currently has a .500 record through the first 22 games of his career.


Those two seasons he did well was because he was running a version of Coughlin's Offense. He has been abysmal running his own personal offense the last 2 years. I mean flat out horrendous with it.

That's 100% false and Coughlin himself has said it was McAdoo's offense those two years. You're better than this, MG.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Somebody owes this guy something?  
montanagiant : 10/10/2017 11:52 pm : link
In comment 13642035 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13641739 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 13641678 Tom in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 13641638 trueblueinpw said:


Quote:


Why is there all this concern with keeping McAdoo?

He's young? So being young is some kind of qualification to be the HC of NYG?

He's promising? Well, he's had plenty of time to fix the offense and he hasn't fixed the offense. For years now McAdoo can't solve cover 2.

McAdoo fixed Eli? Give me a fucking break - Eli won 2 SBs before McAdoo. He didn't need fixing.

McAdoo made the offense better when he became O-co? Wrong again - OBJ made the offense better.

Something else I'll add - and this hasn't been talked about much here or anywhere else - McAdoo can't coach the defense. Does anyone else think it might be a good idea to have a head coach that can at least pitch in on both sides of the ball?

I don't understand what the heck else anyone needs to know about this guy.

So, to answer the question, win an NFC Championship and feel free to stay.



What was the offensive production during 2014 and 2015 vs. 2013? That was McAdoo's offense.

Again, he may very well get let go...but the overreaction to a bad start to a season (and probably the end of any meaningful games this year) is a bit much to take.

Belichick, Parcells, Jimmy Johnson all had crappy seasons at the beginning of their coaching careers. Young coaches, that are good, learn from their mistakes and get better. If he can't improve/show improvement, ok then good bye...but there are 11 games left, and he currently has a .500 record through the first 22 games of his career.


Those two seasons he did well was because he was running a version of Coughlin's Offense. He has been abysmal running his own personal offense the last 2 years. I mean flat out horrendous with it.


That's 100% false and Coughlin himself has said it was McAdoo's offense those two years. You're better than this, MG.

GD, do you see the same play designs these last 2 years that we saw in 2014-2015? Outside of the shotgun draw and slants what plays have we run the last 2 seasons that remotely look like what we ran in 2014-2015? We actually had less talent in those two earlier years at the skill positions then we do now and the O-line is pretty close to the same.
How much of the 11-personnel package do we run now vs what we ran in 2014-2015? This is a completely different approach to this team in play design (much more vertical in 2014-2015) and offense strategy now then back then
It’s been OBJs offense since he arrived  
trueblueinpw : 10/11/2017 12:20 am : link
All this speculation about, was it McAdoo’s or Coughlin’s offense? Can we agree that it was the arrival of OBJ that made whoever’s offense it was work?

And really, McAdoo is running McCarthy’s derivative of the WCO, I t’s not like McAdoo has invented some new way to play football. But let’s just say, purely for arguments sake, that ever since McAdoo got hired as OC the Giants offense has been 100% BM. Ok, what’s really so great about the 100% McAdoo offense? The more influence BM has on the offense the worse it gets. It’s been putrid for 20 games straight. Doesn’t every D-co beat McAdoo’s offense with Tampa 2? What in the world is so special about McAdoo’s offense? Does anyone other than OBJ shine in McAdoo’s offense? (I would actually argue that OBJ hasn’t been used with any creativity like AB in Pitts or TH in KC). This guy doesn’t have the Xs and Os acumen to be a good coordinator.

What’s worse, he doesn’t seem to have any awareness that he needs help. What’s the case to keep him? What glimmer of talent have we seen from McAdoo to even consider he’d survive this season’s disaster?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Somebody owes this guy something?  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/11/2017 12:22 am : link
In comment 13642281 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 13642035 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13641739 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 13641678 Tom in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 13641638 trueblueinpw said:


Quote:


Why is there all this concern with keeping McAdoo?

He's young? So being young is some kind of qualification to be the HC of NYG?

He's promising? Well, he's had plenty of time to fix the offense and he hasn't fixed the offense. For years now McAdoo can't solve cover 2.

McAdoo fixed Eli? Give me a fucking break - Eli won 2 SBs before McAdoo. He didn't need fixing.

McAdoo made the offense better when he became O-co? Wrong again - OBJ made the offense better.

Something else I'll add - and this hasn't been talked about much here or anywhere else - McAdoo can't coach the defense. Does anyone else think it might be a good idea to have a head coach that can at least pitch in on both sides of the ball?

I don't understand what the heck else anyone needs to know about this guy.

So, to answer the question, win an NFC Championship and feel free to stay.



What was the offensive production during 2014 and 2015 vs. 2013? That was McAdoo's offense.

Again, he may very well get let go...but the overreaction to a bad start to a season (and probably the end of any meaningful games this year) is a bit much to take.

Belichick, Parcells, Jimmy Johnson all had crappy seasons at the beginning of their coaching careers. Young coaches, that are good, learn from their mistakes and get better. If he can't improve/show improvement, ok then good bye...but there are 11 games left, and he currently has a .500 record through the first 22 games of his career.


Those two seasons he did well was because he was running a version of Coughlin's Offense. He has been abysmal running his own personal offense the last 2 years. I mean flat out horrendous with it.


That's 100% false and Coughlin himself has said it was McAdoo's offense those two years. You're better than this, MG.


GD, do you see the same play designs these last 2 years that we saw in 2014-2015? Outside of the shotgun draw and slants what plays have we run the last 2 seasons that remotely look like what we ran in 2014-2015? We actually had less talent in those two earlier years at the skill positions then we do now and the O-line is pretty close to the same.
How much of the 11-personnel package do we run now vs what we ran in 2014-2015? This is a completely different approach to this team in play design (much more vertical in 2014-2015) and offense strategy now then back then

Is it completely beyond consideration that some of that is Sullivan's influence? If we're taking TC at his word that it was fully BMc's offense in 2014-15, then Sully might well be the variable factor.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Win 11 in a row  
santacruzom : 10/11/2017 3:33 am : link
In comment 13641579 Tom in NY said:
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In comment 13641577 Matt M. said:


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In comment 13641562 Tom in NY said:


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In comment 13641557 Matt M. said:


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and make the playoffs.



Matt, thank you for sharing an example of the type of response I was trying to avoid in this thread.

Tom - It's an honest answer. Barring a miracle finish to this season, I don't think McAdoo should be even considered for a return. The entire coaching stuff + Reese should be gone.



So despite winning 11 games last year, you would fire him based upon the 0-5 start...


I would more inclined to fire him after a disastrous second season than I would be to keep him after a successful 1st, especially if he exhibits flaw after flaw during the disaster.
RE: RE: Right now, if I'm Mara  
Matt M. : 10/11/2017 5:24 am : link
In comment 13641620 jlukes said:
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In comment 13641559 Matt M. said:


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I'm preparing my list of potential GMs and I am making plans to fire Reese, McAdoo, and the entire coaching staff the day after the season ends.



Reese inherited Coughlin
What does that have to do with anything? I think the entire staff should be fired, so who Reese inherited is moot.
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