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I can't see how we don't draft a qb this year

Bleedblue10 : 10/10/2017 4:20 pm
This season is the worst I've ever seen and I'm 36 years old. I love Eli Manning we were born the same day and I've been his biggest fan since day one. I'll never root against him but the facts are the facts he's getting up there in age and although I think he can still play at a high level the NFL is changing and guys like Wentz and Watson are the new prototype for successful NFL qbs. The days of the pocket passer are slowly fading away and it's time the Giants got on board with what's not just a trend but a necessity with the bad offensive line play being more and more of a problem every year. 10 years ago O lineman would dominate the top of the draft now we're seeing more Rbs going higher and higher. It's not just cause their so good even though they are it's cause even with an average line which most teams have a great rb can make it look good and so can a mobile QB. I'm not saying every qb has to be Micheal Vick but he can't be a statue anymore either. And although this season is miserable the silver lining here is there are 4-5 really good QBs coming out this year. Personally I like Josh Allen the best because although he's very raw we will have Eli for at least another year maybe two and this kid has all the intangibles you would look for in a qb. Let him sit behind Eli with hopefully a coach that can get the most out of all that talent and we're set for the next 15 years. I was around for the Kent graham dave brown fiasco and I don't wanna ever see that again(although this isn't much better). Eli loves this organization and has always been a class act I don't see why he wouldn't step up and do all he can to help the next Giants qb get ready for when he's gone.
Dude, line breaks  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 10/10/2017 4:24 pm : link
.
Sorry typing on an iPad  
Bleedblue10 : 10/10/2017 4:26 pm : link
Really sucks
I don't know but don't you think they might see Webb as the future QB  
BillT : 10/10/2017 4:29 pm : link
He was a day two pick with an good major college career and all the tools (strongest arm at the combine) to be a successful pro. Coach's son, film and gym rat. I don't know but I don't think they spend a 3rd and not think he can be the starter.
Idk about Webb but  
Bleedblue10 : 10/10/2017 4:33 pm : link
I also don't think they should pass on a Darnold or Allen or Rosen if they don't know either. That's what makes me think they have to take one. If Webb turns out to be legit we can trade him for picks if not we have a blue chip prospect ready to go. There's no downside to drafting one of these guys.
Bill  
joeinpa : 10/10/2017 4:33 pm : link
Having two young possibilities as your next franchise quarterback would be a good thing
As  
AcidTest : 10/10/2017 4:38 pm : link
somebody said, if the Giants really thought Webb was their guy for the future, then they would have taken him no later than the second round, and possibly even in the first. At a minimum, do you take Tomlinson, a DT, ahead of your QB of the future?

They had a higher grade on Webb than where they took him, so they were happy to get him in the third round. And maybe he is the future. But he comes from a spread offense, and 65% of his passes were within 10 yards of the LOS.
RE: I don't know but don't you think they might see Webb as the future QB  
OC2.0 : 10/10/2017 4:44 pm : link
In comment 13641791 BillT said:
Quote:
He was a day two pick with an good major college career and all the tools (strongest arm at the combine) to be a successful pro. Coach's son, film and gym rat. I don't know but I don't think they spend a 3rd and not think he can be the starter.


Agreed.
Not giving Webb a shot because we got him in the 3rd round is dumb  
PatersonPlank : 10/10/2017 4:50 pm : link
When were Cousins and Dak drafted? If he is playing well in practice we might think he's the guy. Issues why he dropped aside, his senior season stats at Cal, in a major conference, will be as good as anyone's coming out. They were almost as good as Gifts there. There is nothing except the yearly speculation, that any of these guys coming out will be any better than Webb. Also Darnold and Allen have not looked lime "franchise" guys at all. I wouldn't automatically assume we draft a QB.

Mark my words, there will be new "franchise" QBs in the 2019 draft too. There always are, and 70% turn out to be busts or average at best.
Goffs not Gifts  
PatersonPlank : 10/10/2017 4:51 pm : link
Spellchecker
There might not be a QB  
JonC : 10/10/2017 4:54 pm : link
worth drafting, hard to say in October.
RE: Dude, line breaks  
jvm52106 : 10/10/2017 4:58 pm : link
In comment 13641774 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
.


Omg, I was thinking the same thing.
If they're picking in the top 5  
jeff57 : 10/10/2017 5:11 pm : link
They will take a QB.
RE: As  
njm : 10/10/2017 5:17 pm : link
In comment 13641809 AcidTest said:
Quote:
somebody said, if the Giants really thought Webb was their guy for the future, then they would have taken him no later than the second round, and possibly even in the first. At a minimum, do you take Tomlinson, a DT, ahead of your QB of the future?

They had a higher grade on Webb than where they took him, so they were happy to get him in the third round. And maybe he is the future. But he comes from a spread offense, and 65% of his passes were within 10 yards of the LOS.


You take a Tomlinson when you've just lost Hankins to free agency, you have a starting QB and your alternative is Bromley. And if Webb had the strongest arm in the combine then the fact that most of his passes were within 10 yards of the LOS is more a function of the offense he was running than his ability to throw a deep ball.
RE: Not giving Webb a shot because we got him in the 3rd round is dumb  
njm : 10/10/2017 5:18 pm : link
In comment 13641824 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
When were Cousins and Dak drafted?


Not to mention Russell Wilson
RE: Sorry typing on an iPad  
jlukes : 10/10/2017 5:21 pm : link
In comment 13641780 Bleedblue10 said:
Quote:
Really sucks


iPads dont have an enter key on their keyboards?
RE: Not giving Webb a shot because we got him in the 3rd round is dumb  
jeff57 : 10/10/2017 5:21 pm : link
In comment 13641824 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
When were Cousins and Dak drafted? If he is playing well in practice we might think he's the guy. Issues why he dropped aside, his senior season stats at Cal, in a major conference, will be as good as anyone's coming out. They were almost as good as Gifts there. There is nothing except the yearly speculation, that any of these guys coming out will be any better than Webb. Also Darnold and Allen have not looked lime "franchise" guys at all. I wouldn't automatically assume we draft a QB.

Mark my words, there will be new "franchise" QBs in the 2019 draft too. There always are, and 70% turn out to be busts or average at best.


Passing on a franchise QB because you drafted one in the third round is dumber.
Fuck the QB's give me this guy !  
Bluesbreaker : 10/10/2017 5:32 pm : link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfMF-uBQGAI
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Not giving Webb a shot because we got him in the 3rd round is dumb  
PatersonPlank : 10/10/2017 5:45 pm : link
In comment 13641862 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 13641824 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


When were Cousins and Dak drafted? If he is playing well in practice we might think he's the guy. Issues why he dropped aside, his senior season stats at Cal, in a major conference, will be as good as anyone's coming out. They were almost as good as Gifts there. There is nothing except the yearly speculation, that any of these guys coming out will be any better than Webb. Also Darnold and Allen have not looked lime "franchise" guys at all. I wouldn't automatically assume we draft a QB.

Mark my words, there will be new "franchise" QBs in the 2019 draft too. There always are, and 70% turn out to be busts or average at best.



Passing on a franchise QB because you drafted one in the third round is dumber.


How do you know any of these guys are "franchise". They haven't played a down in the NFL, and they've still got 50% of their senior season left. Its all speculation. If you have a guy here now, who is showing promise at the NFL level, that needs to count for more than a guy still in college.
With a top 5 pick,  
Pete in MD : 10/10/2017 5:50 pm : link
you have to go BPA no matter what his position is. You don't pass on a potential HOFer for a position of need or because you already have someone playing there. The problem is trusting this staff to identify BPA.
I wouldn't..  
prdave73 : 10/10/2017 5:51 pm : link
To many pressing issues right now that are more important. Oline must be fixed asap as well as the defense.
RE: Idk about Webb but  
compton : 10/10/2017 5:55 pm : link
In comment 13641799 Bleedblue10 said:
Quote:
I also don't think they should pass on a Darnold or Allen or Rosen if they don't know either. That's what makes me think they have to take one. If Webb turns out to be legit we can trade him for picks if not we have a blue chip prospect ready to go. There's no downside to drafting one of these guys.


I dunno, even if they think he can be a starter down the road and they are in a position to draft a franchise QB, by all means, they should draft the QB. Having 2 starting QB on your team is a good problem to have. However, I can understand if they think Webb is the real deal that is only a year away then it may make sense to rely on Eli one more year and spend the first round pick on a WR or DE.
RE: I don't know but don't you think they might see Webb as the future QB  
barens : 10/10/2017 6:03 pm : link
In comment 13641791 BillT said:
Quote:
He was a day two pick with an good major college career and all the tools (strongest arm at the combine) to be a successful pro. Coach's son, film and gym rat. I don't know but I don't think they spend a 3rd and not think he can be the starter.


Not when in all likelihood they have a top 5 pick, and they have an opportunity to draft a QB they had rated higher. To me, if they are at a point where they want to replace Eli on the sooner side, you want the highest rated guy. And my .02 cents, I'm not convinced Webb has all the tools to eventually lead us past Wentz and Prescott, among others.
Barkley just looks unfair  
santacruzom : 10/10/2017 6:05 pm : link
Like someone created an RB with 95 everything in Madden.
I said this in another thread  
Bleedblue10 : 10/10/2017 6:10 pm : link
we can't pass on a top 5 qb cause we have a 3rd round pick on the roster. That's what bad teams do. The browns did that and you can't tell me they aren't sick watching Wentz or Watson play. I got sick watching Wentz play and we had no shot at drafting him. Are we gonna join the browns as the most terrible run franchise in football too
RE: RE: RE: Not giving Webb a shot because we got him in the 3rd round is dumb  
jeff57 : 10/10/2017 6:11 pm : link
In comment 13641887 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 13641862 jeff57 said:


Quote:


In comment 13641824 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


When were Cousins and Dak drafted? If he is playing well in practice we might think he's the guy. Issues why he dropped aside, his senior season stats at Cal, in a major conference, will be as good as anyone's coming out. They were almost as good as Gifts there. There is nothing except the yearly speculation, that any of these guys coming out will be any better than Webb. Also Darnold and Allen have not looked lime "franchise" guys at all. I wouldn't automatically assume we draft a QB.

Mark my words, there will be new "franchise" QBs in the 2019 draft too. There always are, and 70% turn out to be busts or average at best.



Passing on a franchise QB because you drafted one in the third round is dumber.



How do you know any of these guys are "franchise". They haven't played a down in the NFL, and they've still got 50% of their senior season left. Its all speculation. If you have a guy here now, who is showing promise at the NFL level, that needs to count for more than a guy still in college.


Guy hasn't played a down and yet you're ready to pass on a possible franchise QB for him because he is "showing promise," whatever that means.
It means about as much sense as calling a college senior an NFL  
PatersonPlank : 10/10/2017 6:21 pm : link
"franchise QB". Who the hell knows. We have Webb, who had a great college career, lets see what he can do. Thats a much better situation than automatically drafting someone based on his play against college kids. If Webb doesn't pan out we can draft a QB then to be the future. However just drafting someone with the 1st pick, when we need so much, is a waste until we know what we have in Webb.
Is there a better qb than Webb out there? How do you now if the qb  
SterlingArcher : 10/10/2017 6:22 pm : link
they draft will be any good? What if the guy they draft is another BobIII or Colon Crap-o-Pick, you would be screaming why did we draft that bum!
Having a guy like Webb doesn't keep you from drafting a QB...  
Torrag : 10/10/2017 6:27 pm : link
...if you have say, a Top 3 pick, and you believe a true franchise guy is in your sights. Eli is near the end one way or another and you have to put the next 15 - 20 years ahead of all the rest of the crap you are tempted to bring up as options...
RE: It means about as much sense as calling a college senior an NFL  
jeff57 : 10/10/2017 6:38 pm : link
In comment 13641927 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
"franchise QB". Who the hell knows. We have Webb, who had a great college career, lets see what he can do. Thats a much better situation than automatically drafting someone based on his play against college kids. If Webb doesn't pan out we can draft a QB then to be the future. However just drafting someone with the 1st pick, when we need so much, is a waste until we know what we have in Webb.


Then get him some starts this season.
RE: Is there a better qb than Webb out there? How do you now if the qb  
jeff57 : 10/10/2017 6:39 pm : link
In comment 13641929 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
they draft will be any good? What if the guy they draft is another BobIII or Colon Crap-o-Pick, you would be screaming why did we draft that bum!


And what if he's another Wentz or Mariota.
RE: Idk about Webb but  
Beer Man : 10/10/2017 6:46 pm : link
In comment 13641799 Bleedblue10 said:
Quote:
I also don't think they should pass on a Darnold or Allen or Rosen if they don't know either. That's what makes me think they have to take one. If Webb turns out to be legit we can trade him for picks if not we have a blue chip prospect ready to go. There's no downside to drafting one of these guys.
Except that none of them can block
RE: Fuck the QB's give me this guy !  
Earl the goat : 10/10/2017 6:59 pm : link
In comment 13641873 Bluesbreaker said:
Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfMF-uBQGAI Link - ( New Window )


I'm on the Barkley bandwagon too. He's a generational talent
Saquan and Odell would be dynamite. Fix the OLine thru FA
Its irresponsible to not take the  
chopperhatch : 10/10/2017 7:03 pm : link
Qb. Having Webb doesnt change that. Having both of them competing for the job is a dream for most teams. Look at the Skins. Their number 2 overall pick turned out to be a disaster, but they had a guy waoting in the wings to take over. Then we can trade the other for picks.

But the fact is that our franchise qb is almost 40 and his skills are declining means we need to fill the most important position on the field in a couple years. Most teams would kill to get a close look at two high draft picks to choose to be their next starting QB. Drafting a lineman high is as much of a crap shoot. But here is the trump card: you never get a crack at QBs in free agency. Anything but a qb with a top 5 pick would be infuriating.
RE: Not giving Webb a shot because we got him in the 3rd round is dumb  
djm : 10/10/2017 7:45 pm : link
In comment 13641824 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
When were Cousins and Dak drafted? If he is playing well in practice we might think he's the guy. Issues why he dropped aside, his senior season stats at Cal, in a major conference, will be as good as anyone's coming out. They were almost as good as Gifts there. There is nothing except the yearly speculation, that any of these guys coming out will be any better than Webb. Also Darnold and Allen have not looked lime "franchise" guys at all. I wouldn't automatically assume we draft a QB.

Mark my words, there will be new "franchise" QBs in the 2019 draft too. There always are, and 70% turn out to be busts or average at best.


You aren't really trying to convince us that a qb picked in the top ten of the 2018 draft has the same chance to dominate as a 3rd rounder?

There is nothing except the majority of every scout breathing would rather have the first round qb over Webb. If there is a guy in next year's draft that checks off every box the Giants have to take him. If not, fine, pass.
RE: Its irresponsible to not take the  
Simms11 : 10/10/2017 11:42 pm : link
In comment 13641974 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
Qb. Having Webb doesnt change that. Having both of them competing for the job is a dream for most teams. Look at the Skins. Their number 2 overall pick turned out to be a disaster, but they had a guy waoting in the wings to take over. Then we can trade the other for picks.

But the fact is that our franchise qb is almost 40 and his skills are declining means we need to fill the most important position on the field in a couple years. Most teams would kill to get a close look at two high draft picks to choose to be their next starting QB. Drafting a lineman high is as much of a crap shoot. But here is the trump card: you never get a crack at QBs in free agency. Anything but a qb with a top 5 pick would be infuriating.


Dallas took a RB and a QB in the 4th?!
RE: RE: Not giving Webb a shot because we got him in the 3rd round is dumb  
PatersonPlank : 10/11/2017 1:00 am : link
In comment 13642006 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13641824 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


When were Cousins and Dak drafted? If he is playing well in practice we might think he's the guy. Issues why he dropped aside, his senior season stats at Cal, in a major conference, will be as good as anyone's coming out. They were almost as good as Gifts there. There is nothing except the yearly speculation, that any of these guys coming out will be any better than Webb. Also Darnold and Allen have not looked lime "franchise" guys at all. I wouldn't automatically assume we draft a QB.

Mark my words, there will be new "franchise" QBs in the 2019 draft too. There always are, and 70% turn out to be busts or average at best.



You aren't really trying to convince us that a qb picked in the top ten of the 2018 draft has the same chance to dominate as a 3rd rounder?

There is nothing except the majority of every scout breathing would rather have the first round qb over Webb. If there is a guy in next year's draft that checks off every box the Giants have to take him. If not, fine, pass.


There were absolutely scouts who had a 1st round grade on Webb. Some others dropped him lower because of the offense he ran, his stats were great. Don't get hung up on the fact we got him in the 3rd round, every draft has guys who drop. IMO, and its only my opinion, we have a QB with a first round skillset who we have been working with for 1 year. Why wouldn't we want to look at him first.

The rest of these guys are a lot more speculative than the guy we have looked at for a year. There stats aren't going to be any better than Webbs senior season stats. So they are this years "franchise" players, so what? Its a crapshoot, no one knows. In 2019 there will be more "franchise" QB's too. Its a meaningless label because no one really knows.
The real issue  
gmenatlarge : 10/11/2017 7:37 am : link
is how can you trust this to Reece!!!!
Earl if Webb is above Average say like the Phil Simms Mode  
Bluesbreaker : 10/11/2017 8:22 am : link
RE: Fuck the QB's give me this guy !
Earl the goat : 10/10/2017 6:59 pm : link : reply
In comment 13641873 Bluesbreaker said:
Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfMF-uBQGAI Link - ( New Window )


I'm on the Barkley bandwagon too. He's a generational talent
Saquan and Odell would be dynamite. Fix the OLine thru FA

Having Barkley would strike fear in many an opponent it
would actually allow to bring in others as well .
Love OBJ but I would be open to trading him getting a second #1 pick and who knows we could get a second #2
pick . We could get a LT and a WR and LB . We really have
multiple positions to fill Eli I think has at least two
good years left in him after this season and Webb should
be ready to take over .
We donít draft one  
hitdog42 : 10/11/2017 8:32 am : link
If we give Webb a look and heís good. We do if we grade out those top qbs to be generational types... and canít miss people...
there are good OL up there as well.
What would be disgusting is if we donít give Webb a look in a 1-15 season because we care about eliís Feelings as over emotional fans.
Give Webb reps- keep scouting the colllege kids- and go from there.
RE: We donít draft one  
jcn56 : 10/11/2017 8:40 am : link
In comment 13642369 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
If we give Webb a look and heís good. We do if we grade out those top qbs to be generational types... and canít miss people...
there are good OL up there as well.
What would be disgusting is if we donít give Webb a look in a 1-15 season because we care about eliís Feelings as over emotional fans.
Give Webb reps- keep scouting the colllege kids- and go from there.


There is a great point there - we've had it drilled into us that this is a generational QB draft, the best we've had in years, etc. But what if those guys end up being not all that great? Wouldn't be the first or last time the draftniks were wrong.
RE: RE: We donít draft one  
PatersonPlank : 10/11/2017 10:37 am : link
In comment 13642381 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13642369 hitdog42 said:


Quote:


If we give Webb a look and heís good. We do if we grade out those top qbs to be generational types... and canít miss people...
there are good OL up there as well.
What would be disgusting is if we donít give Webb a look in a 1-15 season because we care about eliís Feelings as over emotional fans.
Give Webb reps- keep scouting the colllege kids- and go from there.



There is a great point there - we've had it drilled into us that this is a generational QB draft, the best we've had in years, etc. But what if those guys end up being not all that great? Wouldn't be the first or last time the draftniks were wrong.


Its complete speculation, there is no way to know if a college kid is going to be a "franchise" QB. 60-70% of the time they suck or just become a journeyman QB. It also works the other way. Last years draft was supposed to be relatively weak for QB's, but look now. Kizer, Watson, and Trubisky have all started. Plus Mahommes, Webb, and the kid on SF have all gotten positive press.

Evaluate Webb, since he's here and has a year under his belt, and see what you have first. If he's not going to cut it then draft the best guy, but if he is don't run out and use the top 5 pick "just because". That guy may not be any better than Webb, and we could've used the pick for a OT, RB, LB, etc. instead.
some fans, broadly, really lack discipline on this subject  
idiotsavant : 10/11/2017 10:50 am : link
First you rationalize and square away the front office and make any coaching changes.

2018
you build the crap out of the O line, both via draft and top free agents in line with the above changes. Sadly, you need to look at DL as well. Good luck doing this without pick #1 or with trade ups for 'skills players'.

2019
there will be quarterbacks to look at, just as there are now and it will be apparent what additional opportunities to blend need with value will exist.
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