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Vacchiano: Giants shouldn't sit Manning for Webb

Britt in VA : 10/11/2017 9:43 am
Quote:
Despite cries for a youth movement from the 0-5-and-sinking Giants, the reality is that Manning is likely to start every game this season, as long as he's healthy (which granted, given the state of the Giants' offensive line, could be a short-term thing). And that's absolutely the way it should be. It's not in deference to Manning either, or to his streak of consecutive starts -- which stands at a remarkable 204. It's because it's the best thing for the Giants.

And maybe for Webb, too.


Quote:
And even if Webb was ready, why would the Giants put him in a situation like that? Most young quarterbacks struggle at the start of their careers. What's the benefit of putting him behind the same bad line that battered Manning, with maybe Lewis and Rudolph as his top receivers? That would give Webb no chance for any kind of success.


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If they are in position to take one of the top QB's of the draft  
Britt in VA : 10/11/2017 10:27 am : link
they are going to do so regardless of what a limited Webb shows them this season.
Webb isn't ready  
Sammo85 : 10/11/2017 10:27 am : link
A few scripted drives against 4th tier defenders in pre-season games is not a valid barometer.

Webb proving he can throw a ball in a few meaningless games later this year when the team is down by 24 points in the 4th quarter won't prevent the Giants from doing the smart thing and taking a highly regarded QB prospect in the draft.

I liked Webb in college, but I'm very much skeptical of his ceiling as a Pro.
Like John Madden said  
Vanzetti : 10/11/2017 10:27 am : link
When a team is struggling, the backup QB becomes everyone’s favorite player.
RE: Like John Madden said  
Britt in VA : 10/11/2017 10:28 am : link
In comment 13642566 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
When a team is struggling, the backup QB becomes everyone’s favorite player.


Amen, so damn true. I miss Madden. Hope he is well.
Eli  
AcidTest : 10/11/2017 10:30 am : link
has to be incapable of playing for anyone else to start. That could admittedly happen behind this OL. There's a real chance he doesn't finish the season. But then Smith, not Webb, will start. Webb could play if Smith is truly awful, but there is no chance he plays over Eli. None.
RE: I think there is an old saying that is applicable to this situation.  
jvm52106 : 10/11/2017 10:49 am : link
In comment 13642556 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Wish in one hand, sh-t in the other, and see which one gets filled first.

Manning is not getting benched for Webb. And in the event that Manning were to get injured, it would likely be Geno Smith before Webb.


I don't see Manning getting benched for a number of reasons. One reason not mentioned here by others is that i think McAdoo wants Eli to be the goat and I don't mean that as Greatest of All-Time. He can't trash the O-line that points at Reese. He can't blame injuries as they are only really present now (at 0-5).. His knocks on Eli have been obvious and I think they will continue..

I truly believe this is it for Eli in NY if McAdoo stays as coach!
RE: That's BS  
Toth029 : 10/11/2017 10:50 am : link
In comment 13642498 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Give him a few weeks of reps to get ready. Get Sheppard back and put him in.

Trubisky Is working with less in CHI.

Trubisky has a great run game to back him up. If Webb comes in it's all on him to move the ball.
Agreed.  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/11/2017 10:51 am : link
No reason to saddle Webbs' resume with all of the L's the Giants are going to take these next 11 games.
RE: completely agree....  
Ron Johnson : 10/11/2017 10:54 am : link
In comment 13642486 BillKo said:
Quote:
..Eli is the QB, he plays. The man has earned it.

Maybe you play Webb in a blowout either way..........


yup, Webb will get plenty of mop up duty down the stretch.
A lot of opinion being stated as fact  
bigbluehoya : 10/11/2017 10:59 am : link
From Ralph and on both sides of the argument.

My biggest fear in all of this is that Eli somehow gets this team to 5-11 or 6-10 and completely blows the draft position.



Missing the point  
KWALL2 : 10/11/2017 11:00 am : link
Quote:
When a team is struggling, the backup QB becomes everyone’s favorite player.


1. He's not the backup QB.
2. Nobody sees him as a savior.
3. The only point is to get a young player some PT to evaluate his talent.

They should give all of the young players more PT in this lost season.

Gallman? He should get all of the work. Vereen doesn't need to play. He'll be cut at the end of the year. Give Gallman all of the PT.
Backup DEs? Give them a lot more work.
Apple? He should start the rest of the way.

A young QB? We aren't talking about playing him this week. Give him weeks of prep and give him a 4-6 game stretch to start at the end of the year.

He would have Sheppard, Engram, Ellison, and Gallman. That's enough to see what he can do.

Its a much smarter plan then keep him on the bench because Eli has a streak.

And there are no cons to playing him? If he struggles? Great. Lets see how he reacts to it.
What the hell is this?  
KWALL2 : 10/11/2017 11:02 am : link
Quote:
No reason to saddle Webbs' resume with all of the L's...


You can't be serious. We should be worried about a rookies resume(whatever that means)?
Gee  
ryanmkeane : 10/11/2017 11:03 am : link
thanks Ralph.
Gallman  
ryanmkeane : 10/11/2017 11:04 am : link
needs to see like 80% of the snaps. See what the kid can do. None of this RB by committee bullshit. Gallman looked awesome out there when he got his chances.
.  
KWALL2 : 10/11/2017 11:06 am : link
Quote:
So you're gonna drool over Tarik Cohen and then say Trubisky has less? Ok.


He has nothing at WR and TE. Nothing.

Trubisky had very little college experience. Similar to Webb. They got him ready in one week.

I also drooled over Engram and Sheppard. If Webb gets weeks to prep and he has Engram, Sheappard, Ellison, and Gallam, then he has enough.

Its enough to see what he can do.
I get the argument completely  
LG in NYC : 10/11/2017 11:06 am : link
but too many here act like every time the QB drops back he is sacked.

Our O Line is bad but it isn't as bad as many here want to believe (presumably to absolve Eli)... whether or not they end up doing it, there is something to be gained by seeing Webb play QB sooner rather than later.

there will still be plenty of opptys to see Webb's accuracy, ability to make plays on the move, make quick decisions, read defenses, audible at the line, etc... it doesn't have to be the only evaluation but it is at least a start.

in fact, to me the bigger argument against playing Webb isn't the Oline, but the lack of a competent receiving core.

that said, once we hit 10 games into the season, unless we are 4-6 or 5-5, I am going to root for Webb to see some meaningful playing time.
Gallman  
ryanmkeane : 10/11/2017 11:06 am : link
made a few plays that we haven't seen anyone do in our backfield in 5 years, oh and he hits the hole and falls forward when he gets tackled, what a fucking novel concept. Play this guy.
Gallman  
KWALL2 : 10/11/2017 11:07 am : link
is a player. He should get a huge bump in PT especially as a 3rd down back. He'll shine here.
We can revisit week 13 when we are 2-10  
hitdog42 : 10/11/2017 11:32 am : link
And we have sat through more awful football and look even more towards the draft and future.... and see if everyone is reverse engineering reasons to not see what we have before a pivotal draft for the franchise.
RE: .  
WillVAB : 10/11/2017 11:41 am : link
In comment 13642634 KWALL2 said:
Quote:


Quote:


So you're gonna drool over Tarik Cohen and then say Trubisky has less? Ok.



He has nothing at WR and TE. Nothing.

Trubisky had very little college experience. Similar to Webb. They got him ready in one week.

I also drooled over Engram and Sheppard. If Webb gets weeks to prep and he has Engram, Sheappard, Ellison, and Gallam, then he has enough.

Its enough to see what he can do.


So you're just going to avoid the OL issue. Makes sense.
This season  
Carson53 : 10/11/2017 11:47 am : link
is starting to remind me of the 'Dark Ages', I don't think
it will last 17 years this time. That is a tongue and cheek
comment, nothing more. Keep in mind, Vacchiano wrote a book with Eli after they won a SB, so he will slant his musings
towards Eli. When the season goes down the tubes, it wouldn't
hurt to see Webb play some. Around here, it is earth shattering news if Eli doesn't play a game or two.
RE: RE: .  
jeff57 : 10/11/2017 11:48 am : link
In comment 13642687 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13642634 KWALL2 said:


Quote:




Quote:


So you're gonna drool over Tarik Cohen and then say Trubisky has less? Ok.



He has nothing at WR and TE. Nothing.

Trubisky had very little college experience. Similar to Webb. They got him ready in one week.

I also drooled over Engram and Sheppard. If Webb gets weeks to prep and he has Engram, Sheappard, Ellison, and Gallam, then he has enough.

Its enough to see what he can do.



So you're just going to avoid the OL issue. Makes sense.


If the OL is the determining issue, then Geno Smith should be starting over Manning.
Webb  
Les in TO : 10/11/2017 11:49 am : link
should get ample opportunity to play in some "garbage time" this year.
The OL sucks  
KWALL2 : 10/11/2017 11:54 am : link
So keep playing Eli when the team is 0-10? Makes sense.

You wanted to look at Webb....  
BillKo : 10/11/2017 12:15 pm : link
he should have played in the preseason.

Eli hardly plays...and for what...to see Smith and Johnson?

RE: The OL sucks  
WillVAB : 10/11/2017 12:17 pm : link
In comment 13642714 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
So keep playing Eli when the team is 0-10? Makes sense.


So you admit the OL sucks but you want to throw a rookie QB behind it for shits and giggles?
RE: RE: The OL sucks  
jeff57 : 10/11/2017 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13642769 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13642714 KWALL2 said:


Quote:


So keep playing Eli when the team is 0-10? Makes sense.




So you admit the OL sucks but you want to throw a rookie QB behind it for shits and giggles?


How about playing with no QB and going back to the single wing?
I can see it now....  
BillKo : 10/11/2017 12:20 pm : link
team looking awful with the rookie overwhelmed, while a future HOF carries the clipboard?

That's a sure fire way to solve your QB problem because Eli would ask out of this chicken sh*t outfit, and I wouldn't disagree with him.
RE: I can see it now....  
jeff57 : 10/11/2017 12:24 pm : link
In comment 13642775 BillKo said:
Quote:
team looking awful with the rookie overwhelmed, while a future HOF carries the clipboard?

That's a sure fire way to solve your QB problem because Eli would ask out of this chicken sh*t outfit, and I wouldn't disagree with him.


So? He's going to be 37. They need to think about the future, not his ego.
He's 36 this season.  
Britt in VA : 10/11/2017 12:25 pm : link
He'll play the entire next season at age 37.
Eli should play, as long as he's healthy  
UberAlias : 10/11/2017 12:43 pm : link
But Geno should be kicked to the curb. You won't be able to give tickets away to watch a Geno led Giants team.
Once they sit Eli his career with the Giants is over! You can not sit  
SterlingArcher : 10/11/2017 12:52 pm : link
him, unless he is hurt, and expect him to step back in, that has never worked
Shits and giggles?  
KWALL2 : 10/11/2017 12:57 pm : link
Or you can do it to evaluate the player.

And try and keep up here. Not saying put him in now or "throw in the rookie". Give him more work in practice for weeks. Then give him 4-6 games at the end of the year.

It gives you film on the QB on an NFL field.

Rookie QBs usually play on overmatched teams. If he struggles and crumbles better to find out during a lost season. Then we move on. If he plays great ball then you probably don't want to spend a high pick on a college QB.

Elis a smart guy. I'd bet on him not having a problem taking a seat for a month on this 0-10 team.
Agree that Eli plays  
NikkiMac : 10/11/2017 1:18 pm : link
But at least cut Geno and let Webb get reps behind Eli in practice and if he is needed
This isn't likely to turn out well  
JonC : 10/11/2017 1:32 pm : link
for those wanting to see Webb in games this season. Perhaps he'll get some late season, late game burn.
Eli wouldn't have a problem with sitting?  
BillKo : 10/11/2017 1:52 pm : link
You guys underestimate the competitive nature of a pro QB, esp considering there are only 32 of them.

I can guarantee Eli wants to keep his streak alive, and wants to play.
RE: This isn't likely to turn out well  
hitdog42 : 10/11/2017 1:52 pm : link
In comment 13642893 JonC said:
Quote:
for those wanting to see Webb in games this season. Perhaps he'll get some late season, late game burn.


Agree with you on how the team likely plays it out —- but disagree on going that way.
Again nobody is saying bench Eli- but it is undeniable that it would be a good thing for the team to see Webb play several half’s of football whether he starts or not during an 2-14 season.


RE: RE: This isn't likely to turn out well  
Britt in VA : 10/11/2017 1:53 pm : link
In comment 13642956 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
In comment 13642893 JonC said:


Quote:


for those wanting to see Webb in games this season. Perhaps he'll get some late season, late game burn.



Agree with you on how the team likely plays it out —- but disagree on going that way.
Again nobody is saying bench Eli- but it is undeniable that it would be a good thing for the team to see Webb play several half’s of football whether he starts or not during an 2-14 season.



Actually there are a few saying to bench Eli.
RE: Agree  
chuckydee9 : 10/11/2017 1:54 pm : link
In comment 13642515 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Let him quarterback until he's 50. No need to look to the future and evaluate the player you just took in third round with the season over.


I wonder if coaches actually evaluate 3rd QB during the off season and practice?
Ralph is wrong  
Thegratefulhead : 10/11/2017 2:27 pm : link
The pro to giving Webb time is gigantic and FAR outweighs the cons. You do not even have to start him. Let him start the second half of games. If the kid shows poise and promise we can absolutely avoid one the top QBs next year. If we end up with the top pick we might be able to reload in huge way by trading the top pick. We cannot do that unless we see Webb receive significant playing time during the season against quality NFL defenses. This is a no brainer to me. Blah blah with it might ruin him...It didn't ruin Eli and he got killed. This will tell us if he can be a leader of men and the team needs to know now.
RE: Eli wouldn't have a problem with sitting?  
Devon : 10/11/2017 2:31 pm : link
In comment 13642950 BillKo said:
Quote:
You guys underestimate the competitive nature of a pro QB, esp considering there are only 32 of them.

I can guarantee Eli wants to keep his streak alive, and wants to play.


People seem to see Eli as some selfless powderpuff, at least when it suits them.

The idea that he'd be all good with the one thing he seems to openly acknowledge as taking a lot pride in being taken away from him, when he's already "lost" a lot of other things that were once in his favor, is laughable.

Once he's benched, there's going to be no going back and cutting him (or less likely trading him) is locked in. Which is how it should be anyway at this point, given the total organizational tear down needed.
Hold on  
KWALL2 : 10/11/2017 3:01 pm : link
Letting a young player get PT when the team is 0-10 doesn't = selfless powderpuff.

Having a big problem with it does = selfish asshole. And that's not Eli.
It's not being a selfish asshole, it's being human and being  
Devon : 10/11/2017 3:12 pm : link
competitive, prideful enough to have played 14 years in the league, still believing he can play more.

I've said before Eli's feeling are entirely irrelevant and the team should subtract all sentimentality and give Webb the starts, but trying to act like he's not going to have them, that he's that selfless and big picture (that has no benefit to him, as he's not in it) over something that clearly means an enormous amount to him is ridiculous. I'm sure it would mostly be kept behind the scenes for image purposes, but he's likely going to be majorly pissed off if they take it from him on his way out and that's okay for him to feel that way, just like it's okay for the team to not care.
RE: RE: This isn't likely to turn out well  
JonC : 10/11/2017 3:20 pm : link
In comment 13642956 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
In comment 13642893 JonC said:


Quote:


for those wanting to see Webb in games this season. Perhaps he'll get some late season, late game burn.



Agree with you on how the team likely plays it out —- but disagree on going that way.
Again nobody is saying bench Eli- but it is undeniable that it would be a good thing for the team to see Webb play several half’s of football whether he starts or not during an 2-14 season.



Football teams tend to defer to the incumbent who has won Super Bowls, until they simply can no longer ignore it. Not sure Webb will elevate himself to the point of making it an issue either, it's not likely to happen for the sake of it.
Devon  
KWALL2 : 10/11/2017 4:11 pm : link
He can want to play and not be happy with it. However, if he has a "big problem" with it when were talking about an 0-10, maybe 1 win team then he is an selfish asshole.

The competitive stuff is out the window when your 0-10. Nothing he can do at that point. Step back and let a young player get PT.
RE: A lot of opinion being stated as fact  
FStubbs : 10/11/2017 4:18 pm : link
In comment 13642625 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
From Ralph and on both sides of the argument.

My biggest fear in all of this is that Eli somehow gets this team to 5-11 or 6-10 and completely blows the draft position.




6-10 would mean that in the face of a team spiraling out of control and taking on a MUCH more brutal schedule, Eli can carve out a winning record of 6-5.

If that somehow happened than Eli would be certainly far better than he's shown this season.
RE: Once they sit Eli his career with the Giants is over! You can not sit  
FStubbs : 10/11/2017 4:20 pm : link
In comment 13642831 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
him, unless he is hurt, and expect him to step back in, that has never worked


Isn't it, though? This is the end of the Eli era any way you look at it.

Starting Webb or not, that part is a fact.
RE: Devon  
Devon : 10/11/2017 5:08 pm : link
In comment 13643457 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
He can want to play and not be happy with it. However, if he has a "big problem" with it when were talking about an 0-10, maybe 1 win team then he is an selfish asshole.

The competitive stuff is out the window when your 0-10. Nothing he can do at that point. Step back and let a young player get PT.


The competitive stuff is never out the window unless you're done and/or never wanted it that much in the first place.

He can have a big problem with it and it won't say a thing about him other than losing something that you take pride in hurts. Just like the team can tell him to get fucked, time's up, and it'll just say it's a business from their end.
Argument is that Eli will get this team to  
Simms11 : 10/11/2017 5:44 pm : link
6-10 or 5-11 and screw the draft position?! Really, who are they going to beat? I do not see a win all year, but I’m sure they’ll steal 1 or 2 along the way. Regardless, it’s been more on the Defense and Special Teams IMO. Eli could play lights out, but it may not make a difference if the Defense is not holding th3 other team off the board. They will not trade Eli and he will play all games this year. I would say, however that the last quarter of the season could see Webb coming in for Eli towards the end of games, if they are out of hand.
OP makes sense!  
Kev in Cali : 10/11/2017 6:42 pm : link
Why torture Webb on a shat offense at this point, let Eli deal with it and get him prepared for the next season knowing he could be THE guy. Webb wouldn't do shat in this offense at this point, hell, I don't think Brady or Brees could either.

Tank this season!!!! It's done, it's over!
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