...before the Eli Manning window finally closes.
That mantra has been repeated a Baziillion times by a host of BBIers (including yours truly), but six years (including this season) have come and gone, and the Giants really never came close to another Super Bowl since 2012.
On reflection, bad player evaluations draft-wise doomed this team, and the well-recognized failures along the offensive line surely didn't help matters.
Most unfortunate is the fact that management lost sight of a fundamental Eli fact -- he loses efficiency (rapidly) when the pocket is compressed, and he is unable to create when things go wrong (ala Dak Prescott and Carson Wentz).
Also regrettable is the fact that management refused to go back to the draft well for more premium first round offensive linemen when it became all too apparent that -- despite the Pugh, Richburg and Flowers -- they didn't fix the wall in front of Eli.
Another management failure: drawing the wrong conclusion from the last Super Bowl victory... that the Giants could pass their way to victory in what had become a passing league... and forgetting that the ability to run the ball not only enhances the passing game, but often times controls the ebb-and-flow of the game at critical junctures (like the red zone and the last few minutes of the game.)
I feel sorry for Eli Manning -- he has been part of the solution, and part of the problem. And the "problem" part was greatly exacerbated by Giants management.
For those eternal optimists who believe Eli's window can open one more time in 2018, I'm sorry to say there are no more windows for this 2-time Super Bowl Champion.
At least NOT on the Giants.
But is there anyone here that knows how to use it.
Save for Brady, nobody got a 3rd. Not even Peyton, who as much as we all love Eli was a much better QB than he was.
It's really fucking hard to win a Super Bowl, so when you do you should try to enjoy it more.
True... but I would argue that -- since Eli was the centerpiece for this entire team -- the Giants needed to go back again for high O-line draft picks come hell or high water. Otherwise, their crown jewel -- Eli -- would tarnish badly. He did.
Dont ya think?
Diehl was a late 5th rd pick
Seubert was undrafted
O'Hara was undrafted, we got a good deal for him when he left the Browns and he became a 3-time pro bowler
Great pick on Snee, landing an all-pro guard in round 2
Kareem Mackenzie was a semi-big-money free agent who ended up working out very well.
Kevin Booth was a 6th round pick
And then think about that fact that most of the line managed to stay together for 5+ years.
We apparently got a little cavalier in thinking we could just automatically have a formidable o-line just because we will it so. Honestly David Diehl was probably the MVP of those teams in light of what we're seeing this season. The guy was the consummate professional too.
jeff57 : 10:36 am : link : reply
And plan for the future.
People were ready to burn Coughlin and Eli in effigy by 2013.
People need to appreciate the past and understand how truly difficult it is to get a Super Bowl ring, let alone 4 of them.
Tuck tail? Is that what they call taking a QB in the top 5 picks? When you have a 37 year old starting QB. Seems like being smart.
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People need to stop living in the past
jeff57 : 10:36 am : link : reply
And plan for the future.
People were ready to burn Coughlin and Eli in effigy by 2013.
People need to appreciate the past and understand how truly difficult it is to get a Super Bowl ring, let alone 4 of them.
2013? What followed was two losing seasons and Coughlin's firing.
What does a super bowl ring in 1986 have to do with the team's future in 2017.
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If Management makes the right moves, and we can build a semblance of an O-line in the offseason, there is talent on the team.
But is there anyone here that knows how to use it.
2012 - Give them a chance to repeat. Okay, I get that one. They ran out of gas and showed their age and weaknesses in the end. 9-7
2013 - The Super Bowl Clock. 'nuff said. 7-9 it's all Gilbrides fault
2014 - New OC McAdoo, gotta protect Eli, but pass on Zack Martin, take OBJ. Defense sucks, It's all Fewells fault. 6-10
2015 - Spags will get Eli to another SB. D sucks. Offense and OL suck. 6-10. It's all Coughlin's and Flaherty's fault. TC and Flats fired, Reese on notice.
2016 - McAdoo in as HC, Solari as OL coach. Offense sucks, OL still sucks, D played well with new FA additions, win inordinate number of tight games, 11-5. Blown out in playoff game.
2017 - Offense and OL still suck, D sucks again, STs suck 0-5 BEFORE all the injuries occur. or 0-4.75 at least.
Common denominators here: Reese and Ross player procurement, ownership either promotingng or buying into flawed pricnciples.
You're right. They have lost their identity, forgotten who they are. They're swept up in the euphoria of having an electric talent like OBJ, but forgot that without the help in the trenches those weapons are useless.
Nobody said the Giants were going to win 5 Super Bowls with Eli. Stop whining about it. I've argued with my best friend for years about this point: Eli & Coughlin spoiled Giant fans & Mara. Why don't you just appreciate what they did do? Now the team is in the crapper. That's life. That's football.
It's so true, most teams aren't that far part.
And look at the teams this year. The AFC looks weak overall IMO.
The NFC....some good teams, but who really is clear cut?
It's pretty even.............
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If they make the right moves in the next draft. If they tuck tail and draft a QB, then yes the window is closed with the Giants.
Tuck tail? Is that what they call taking a QB in the top 5 picks? When you have a 37 year old starting QB. Seems like being smart.
100%. Plenty of people around the organization and the media believed this team was poised to compete for a championship this season. If the Giants make the perennial loser franchise move of going QB in the draft it's definitely a tuck tail move. They're essentially admitting that '16 was fool's gold and that this team requires a rebuild from the ground up.
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In comment 13642620 WillVAB said:
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If they make the right moves in the next draft. If they tuck tail and draft a QB, then yes the window is closed with the Giants.
Tuck tail? Is that what they call taking a QB in the top 5 picks? When you have a 37 year old starting QB. Seems like being smart.
100%. Plenty of people around the organization and the media believed this team was poised to compete for a championship this season. If the Giants make the perennial loser franchise move of going QB in the draft it's definitely a tuck tail move. They're essentially admitting that '16 was fool's gold and that this team requires a rebuild from the ground up.
It will be the one winning season in the last 6. It was fool's gold.
Alanis Morissette would archive this thread, thinking that archiving expresses liking it.
We need to start mostly over - most of bbi knows that - 10 or so absolute keepers -
Will Mara admit that ?- worst to first ? My god —let’s fire TC and Joe Girardi too ? Holy smokes
We need to start mostly over - most of bbi knows that - 10 or so absolute keepers -
Will Mara admit that ?- worst to first ? My god —let’s fire TC and Joe Girardi too ? Holy smokes
2013 Kansas City Chiefs: 2-14 to 11-5
2004 San Diego Chargers: 4-12 to 12-4
2008 Miami Dolphins: 1-15 to 11-5
1999 Colts: 3-13 to 13-3
2004 Pittsburgh Steelers: 6-10 to 15-1
2001 New England Patriots: 5-11 to 11-5 (won Superbowl)
1999 St. Louis Rams: 4-12 to 13-3 (won Superbowl)
and you can probably find an equal # of teams that went playoffs to bust. Parity works both ways. I start the bidding with:
2002 Giants 10-6, 1 playoff win, 2003 Giants 4-12
2015 Jets 10-6, 2016 Jets 5-11
Have a long term plan for success (obviously an extereme case): NE Pats 9 or more wins every year since 2001. 2002 the only year with less than 10. (yeah I know, it's their division ;-) )
The relevance? Really? You and others are hanging your hats on worst to first due to parity. I'm pointing out that 1) it works both ways, and 2) it's a stupid mantra to follow when compared to solid long term planning. The Giants right now are the result of the "fly by the seat of your pants approach". Change the OC 1 years, the DC the next, the HC the next, but don't let him hire his own staff.
That's why it's not relevant to our current situation.
That's why it's not relevant to our current situation.
It's most definitely relevant when you're suggesting that is a way to run a team.
I just said the league is built, through parity, to allow that to happen.
Kidding. It's a long shot but if he stays healthy and they get a few key positions upgraded in the offseason, there is talent on this team. And their schedule will be cake next year if they keep sucking. So Hey, I'm predicting sunshine and roses for next year(at least today). They pick up a Nate Solder and Luke Joeckel in FA They draft Derrius Guice, Mike McGlinchey and Daron Payne...
I guy can dream cant he
17 years ago
Rams were tied for 4th
You take your stuff to the bank on worst to first
See how that goes
This is about solid drafting
Smart FA
A winning culture
And leadership
We are 0/4
Blow it up
The league is built on parity, which allows teams the opportunity to go from worst to first. That was the whole reason they designed it that way.
Acknowledging that fact doesn't mean I don't think we should blow it up. Notice I said in my first post on this thread "if management makes the right decisions" ie: who they fire and who they hire.
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When has this ever happened in modern football?
We need to start mostly over - most of bbi knows that - 10 or so absolute keepers -
Will Mara admit that ?- worst to first ? My god —let’s fire TC and Joe Girardi too ? Holy smokes
2013 Kansas City Chiefs: 2-14 to 11-5
2004 San Diego Chargers: 4-12 to 12-4
2008 Miami Dolphins: 1-15 to 11-5
1999 Colts: 3-13 to 13-3
2004 Pittsburgh Steelers: 6-10 to 15-1
2001 New England Patriots: 5-11 to 11-5 (won Superbowl)
1999 St. Louis Rams: 4-12 to 13-3 (won Superbowl)
So you're saying a new HC and new starting QB ...I believe the common thread in your list(except for lil Bill) turns us around?
While it's possible for us with a theoretical softer schedule our problem is there are VERY few soft teams: Cleveland, Rams,Az, Chargers, Jets,SF definitely have arrows up and the first 3 are 1-2 players away from being in the playoffs with their own turnaround, and our '18 schedule at best only minimally friendly.
And our own Division is always a battle.
I'm hopeful, but not optimistic until the '20 season, which will be without Eli,OBJ,Jackrabbit,or Snacks(the later 3 walk).
Giant history is strong up middle and run ball. If they panic, don't rebuild OL first they will be stuck in the revolving door of QB's.
Not sure why D has fallen off cliff so fast, almost same players as last year. Seem to have lost all intensity.
Bottom line - Eli looks completely lost. He will have to be replaced either way.
Mac Magoo ?? Reese and staff-gone . Keep scouts,Saban was bust in NFL.
Draft BEEF
...if Giants' management was so convinced that Eli could lead the team to the promise land one mo' time (something many of us believed), then they failed to prop Eli up with enough protection for him to work his magic!
Instead, the Giants put together consistently bad offensive lines for the past five / six years, and that called for a very different QB... one who could "run for his life" and make several plays with his legs.
But no... the Giants wanted it both ways: for Eli to win another Super Bowl under conditions who could never succeed.
And that, my friends, is the bitterest irony of it all for these miserable Giants and the BBIers who live and breath this team every day!