Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

Can McAdoo become a good coach?

an_idol_mind : 10/11/2017 3:49 pm
Just wondering about opinions: is McAdoo flat out bad as a coach or is he somebody who is overwhelmed and could become better with more time or experience?

So far, he's refused to make changes to his approach, either in personnel packages, playcalling responsibilities, or the like. Do you think he would improve if he made some adjustments, or do you think he's just not head coach material?
I think he can  
yankeeslover : 10/11/2017 3:52 pm : link
coaches should evolve..Problem with Mac.. he never coached on any level before.. He was not ready.. I think with time, Yes he can improve..
No, but...  
trueblueinpw : 10/11/2017 3:52 pm : link
Being rigid and incompetent aren't great qualities for a football coach. But he could probably have a very successful career in politics.
i don't want to wait to find out  
Jints in Carolina : 10/11/2017 3:53 pm : link
.
He seemed pretty good  
CT Charlie : 10/11/2017 3:53 pm : link
last year.
Yes  
Ron Johnson : 10/11/2017 3:54 pm : link
he'll find the heavy handed game in the WAC conference
Coached TEs before this.  
SHO'NUFF : 10/11/2017 3:54 pm : link
Has no idea how to use TEs now.
My idea of..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2017 3:55 pm : link
a good coach is one who can adapt to different strategies by countering them with adjustments. One who knows when to push guys and when to lay off. One who knows that a season is fluid and takes a lot of twists and turns.

It's very hard for me to say Mac has done any of those things well. He's stubbornly stuck with a personnel grouping and never solved the teams that throw a Cover 2 at him. He talked about not having a FB last year, so he was given one this year and lined up in shotgun on 3rd and short repeatedly.

I thought he was an excellent in-game coach last year, but it looks more and more like he simply benefitted from minimizing mistakes by the offense, punting and having the D hold teams. When the D can't hold teams, that plan doesn't work and he's not adapting it very well.
RE: He seemed pretty good  
SHO'NUFF : 10/11/2017 3:55 pm : link
In comment 13643402 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
last year.


Not even.
doesn't seem likely  
santacruzom : 10/11/2017 3:55 pm : link
You have to consider the rarity of good coaches. In any given year, how many are there in both the NFL and college combined?

Thus far, there's no reason to believe that McAdoo possesses what must be rare traits required to be a good coach.
Could he become one? Sure  
Greg from LI : 10/11/2017 3:56 pm : link
But it's not going to happen here.
RE: RE: He seemed pretty good  
SHO'NUFF : 10/11/2017 3:56 pm : link
In comment 13643408 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
In comment 13643402 CT Charlie said:


Quote:


last year.



Not even.


As to why? FMiC sums it up quite nicely above.
NO  
Danny L : 10/11/2017 3:57 pm : link
full stop.
I don't honestly know  
santacruzom : 10/11/2017 4:01 pm : link
how significant a role being good with the media plays. I just know he's pretty awful at it. I wonder if that particular skill is a symptom of a coach's general coaching aptitude.

For instance, today he said "That's all I have for you on the matter" five different times (at least -- I stopped reading) in regards to DRC. I feel like better coaches who excel with the media (Steve Kerr, for one) would state his refusal to talk about the subject with an elusive combination of wit, civility, and absoluteness when the question is asked a second time. Great coaches who have prickly reputations would shut that shit down in no uncertain terms as well. Can you imagine Popovich having to say "I'm not talking about that" 5 times? He'd leave reporters crying after just once.
No.  
prdave73 : 10/11/2017 4:11 pm : link
But maybe with Belichick as his assistant!
Yes I think he can  
RetroJint : 10/11/2017 4:12 pm : link
As for the adjustment guy above, they have taken the lead in the fourth quarter of the last three games. What's obviously got him flummoxed is the play of his defense. He expects them to close out the games. Simply hasn't happened even though thr unit is almost completely healthy . There is no pass rush, no turnovers and a high third -down conversion rate.
No...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/11/2017 4:13 pm : link
Unless he becomes less rigid and stubborn.
He'll be a position coach somewhere  
HomerJones45 : 10/11/2017 4:13 pm : link
when he gets the axe here. He had his chance and blew it sky high.
NO  
larryflower37 : 10/11/2017 4:13 pm : link
Good coaches do not allow the circus that is going on to ever happen.
A solid leader has their finger on the pulse of the team and knows when to step in.
He is reacting to the environment, instead of dictating the environment.
X and O's are great but I great coach motivates and know what to say at the right times. He obviously is lacking in that area.
A good coach?  
FStubbs : 10/11/2017 4:13 pm : link
The problem is McAdoo isn't even average right now. He's horrible in every phase of the game right now and never really showed enough to be all that patient with him at this point.
RE: He'll be a position coach somewhere  
FStubbs : 10/11/2017 4:14 pm : link
In comment 13643464 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
when he gets the axe here. He had his chance and blew it sky high.


What about McAdoo qualifies him as a position coach at this point? Because he coached Aaron Rodgers?
No  
Sammo85 : 10/11/2017 4:19 pm : link
He's terrible at all the things a HC needs to do well and shows none of the attributes in terms of a grand strategy/plan nor psychology in dealing with players.

The offense under him as HC has inexplicably become one of the very worst in the league two years running despite having a solid QB and good WR talent.

He wasn't a good candidate, wasn't a good choice, and now is proving he's not a good Head Coach.

Yes,  
AnishPatel : 10/11/2017 4:21 pm : link
he needs time to develop. The way Reese is doing his job, and factor in growing pains with Ben M. you can get this total shit show. I think he could be a good coach though.
Yes, I think he can be a good coach  
B in ALB : 10/11/2017 4:21 pm : link
He can coach other coaches how not to coach.
.....  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 10/11/2017 4:24 pm : link
We won't find out here. Can't get much done on offense when the line can't run block or hold a passblock longer than 2 seconds
Perhaps ....  
Beer Man : 10/11/2017 4:33 pm : link
But this can also lead to the coach abyss that failed HCs fall into and are never heard from again.
Possibly  
UberAlias : 10/11/2017 4:35 pm : link
But opportunities are hard to come by in this league and McAdoo is blowing his.
No  
rocco8112 : 10/11/2017 4:44 pm : link
Main rationale if I recall for replacing the fired Coughlin with this guy was continuity for the offense.

How is that looking?

Last year the one hit wonder defense carried this team to a one and done debacle inty he playoffs that is better known for the shirtless wonders on a boat and before the game. He had that team ill prepared for that game and thew Giants have not won since.

This guy is not the answer and needs to go. Reese should have been gone when ownership desired changes after 2015. Now Reese should definitely be gone and why would any new Gm want to be saddled with this guy?

I guess he could have success elsewhere, but he should be terminated at seasons end. The wheels are already coming off.

RE: Yes,  
rocco8112 : 10/11/2017 4:46 pm : link
In comment 13643486 AnishPatel said:
Quote:
he needs time to develop. The way Reese is doing his job, and factor in growing pains with Ben M. you can get this total shit show. I think he could be a good coach though.


The Giants, with the exception of last year which I think was a fluke and not a sign of continued success, have sucked since 2013. How much time should this guy get? He is presiding over the worst Giants season in a long time. I think this team wins at most three games. The wheels are already coming off with the DRC stuff today. This is going to hit rock bottom real soon.
No  
Thegratefulhead : 10/11/2017 4:46 pm : link
The timing of his calling out Eli is a huge red flag. There are times to call out your franchise, this was not one. He should have have publicly taken blame for the early losses. Call out Eli front of the players during a meeting but not to the media. He is weak. It is tough for him to follow a man of character like TC.
RE: My idea of..  
Go Terps : 10/11/2017 4:51 pm : link
In comment 13643407 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
a good coach is one who can adapt to different strategies by countering them with adjustments. One who knows when to push guys and when to lay off. One who knows that a season is fluid and takes a lot of twists and turns.

It's very hard for me to say Mac has done any of those things well. He's stubbornly stuck with a personnel grouping and never solved the teams that throw a Cover 2 at him. He talked about not having a FB last year, so he was given one this year and lined up in shotgun on 3rd and short repeatedly.

I thought he was an excellent in-game coach last year, but it looks more and more like he simply benefitted from minimizing mistakes by the offense, punting and having the D hold teams. When the D can't hold teams, that plan doesn't work and he's not adapting it very well.


Agree with all of this, and I was a big McAdoo backer.

Whoever the next head coach is, I hope it's someone who is:

1. A people manager
2. A game manager

Those two tasks are a full time job. The head coach is the guy that should be recognizing a game situation and screaming things like "Run the fucking ball" or "Stop blitzing" to his coordinators over the headset. Let the coordinators provide the systems and call the plays.
Lets face facts  
fansince71 : 10/11/2017 4:55 pm : link
In 1983 Bill Parcells was wretched, horrid, putrid and hideous.

It is usually not wise to fire a coach after two yers...
Yes  
spike : 10/11/2017 4:56 pm : link
As an Oc only
RE: Lets face facts  
santacruzom : 10/11/2017 5:06 pm : link
In comment 13643578 fansince71 said:
Quote:
In 1983 Bill Parcells was wretched, horrid, putrid and hideous.

It is usually not wise to fire a coach after two yers...


Really? I think it's usually not proven to be unwise.

Think of the head coaches who've shown enough of their ass to be fired after one or two seasons. The list of those who've ultimately proved to be good coaches elsewhere is... brief.
No  
Rflairr : 10/11/2017 5:14 pm : link
.
RE: i don't want to wait to find out  
TyreeHelmet : 10/11/2017 5:16 pm : link
In comment 13643398 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
.
Belichick flamed out in Cleveland  
David B. : 10/11/2017 5:16 pm : link
And is STILL terrible with the media. Remember what Coughlin's reputation was before 2007? How he was with the media (just behind Hitler, I believe it was). And how many times the fans here called for his head? The Giants also had bad timing on Sean Payton.

Winning cures everything.

Not saying McAdoo will become Belichick, or even Coughlin, but he'll likely get a chance to grow into a better head coach.
Question  
TyreeHelmet : 10/11/2017 5:16 pm : link
What has he demonstrated as HC or OC to make you think he will be one? The offense has gotten worse each year.....
RE: RE: My idea of..  
montanagiant : 10/11/2017 5:33 pm : link
In comment 13643565 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13643407 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


a good coach is one who can adapt to different strategies by countering them with adjustments. One who knows when to push guys and when to lay off. One who knows that a season is fluid and takes a lot of twists and turns.

It's very hard for me to say Mac has done any of those things well. He's stubbornly stuck with a personnel grouping and never solved the teams that throw a Cover 2 at him. He talked about not having a FB last year, so he was given one this year and lined up in shotgun on 3rd and short repeatedly.

I thought he was an excellent in-game coach last year, but it looks more and more like he simply benefitted from minimizing mistakes by the offense, punting and having the D hold teams. When the D can't hold teams, that plan doesn't work and he's not adapting it very well.



Agree with all of this, and I was a big McAdoo backer.

Whoever the next head coach is, I hope it's someone who is:

1. A people manager
2. A game manager

Those two tasks are a full time job. The head coach is the guy that should be recognizing a game situation and screaming things like "Run the fucking ball" or "Stop blitzing" to his coordinators over the headset. Let the coordinators provide the systems and call the plays.

I said this offseason that our 11-4 record was somewhat a mirage. That it benefitted greatly from some real lucky plays in a few games we won (IE: 1st Dallas game Williams brain fart of not going out of bounds as time ran out) that easily could have been losses if they did not happen. I know luck plays a part in this game but some of those games we saw an inordinate amount of fluky shit go our way.

I also felt his playcalling sucked last year also, that he played it too close to the vest way too many times and never went for the throat. Now the excuse for him doing that is a sound one "the O-Line stincks and we can't risk it when we have a lead", and damn if for the most part it worked but I truly believe when you look at last season completely we went 11-4 despite ourselves and an easy schedule helped

So here we sit one year later and after a draft and an FA period under our belt, we have yet again to see anything done to fix that major problem. Add in a Coach whose errors last year got masked greatly and whose stubbornness refuses to see a change in how he does things is needed and you end up where we are at this point.

Lets not kid ourselves this is a shitty team but yet this team has some of the leagues top 10 players at their position:
OBJ
Collins
Jackrabbit
Snacks
Vernon
Eli
That is a strong base that should never be 0-5 with a loss to the freaking Chargers. IMO that 0-5 falls directly on the coaching staff. We are losing games due to shitty calls at key points, to poor game mgmt, to undisciplined play, to ill-prepared players, these are all indicators of lousy coaching. What makes it worse and much more identifiable that it's the Coaching staff is that it's not from one group. We have seen ST's lose us a game, Defense unable to make stops come crunch time, Offense unable to generate any offense.

It's a systematic failure across the whole spectrum of this team and that lies at the fault of the FO and Coaching Staff. I say blow it the hell up As soon as logically possible.



And Spags was the big failure  
David B. : 10/11/2017 5:33 pm : link
when he had crap to work with on Defense. Then they got Vernon, Jenkins, Snacks, and Collins blossomed. All of the sudden, Spags is a genius again.

Maybe if Reese had given McAdoo a competent OL, his offense would have been less restricted by formation, and more effective. And he still went 11-5 as a rookie HC.

His offense was pretty darn effective when he was the OC -- back when the D couldn't stop anyone or hold leads. The year Eli threw 6 TDs against NO, and Brees threw 7 'cause there was NO defense.
Time.  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2017 5:54 pm : link
has the way of perpetuating myths.

Quote:
Belichick flamed out in Cleveland
David B. : 5:16 pm : link : reply
And is STILL terrible with the media. Remember what Coughlin's reputation was before 2007? How he was with the media (just behind Hitler, I believe it was). And how many times the fans here called for his head? The Giants also had bad timing on Sean Payton.


Belicheck actually turned the Browns around from what they were before he got there. He took them to the playoffs in 1994. People act as if he was an utter failure there.
NO  
Nitro : 10/11/2017 5:57 pm : link
He strikes me as an aggressively stupid person who mostly deals in footbaw aphorisms and not with actual insight or ability.

The coach should be analytical, thoughtful leader, not getting into impotent dick measuring contests with players.

Get him the fuck out of here!
RE: And Spags was the big failure  
Devon : 10/11/2017 6:02 pm : link
In comment 13643657 David B. said:
Quote:
when he had crap to work with on Defense. Then they got Vernon, Jenkins, Snacks, and Collins blossomed. All of the sudden, Spags is a genius again.

Maybe if Reese had given McAdoo a competent OL, his offense would have been less restricted by formation, and more effective. And he still went 11-5 as a rookie HC.

His offense was pretty darn effective when he was the OC -- back when the D couldn't stop anyone or hold leads. The year Eli threw 6 TDs against NO, and Brees threw 7 'cause there was NO defense.


Spags is failing this year, still with plenty of talent. The team is 29th in defensive DVOA. He's no one's genius.

McAdoo might be a decent OC, but he clearly isn't a good HC and he definitely can't handle being being HC + OC.
RE: RE: And Spags was the big failure  
Devon : 10/11/2017 6:04 pm : link
In comment 13643713 Devon said:
Quote:
In comment 13643657 David B. said:


Quote:


when he had crap to work with on Defense. Then they got Vernon, Jenkins, Snacks, and Collins blossomed. All of the sudden, Spags is a genius again.

Maybe if Reese had given McAdoo a competent OL, his offense would have been less restricted by formation, and more effective. And he still went 11-5 as a rookie HC.

His offense was pretty darn effective when he was the OC -- back when the D couldn't stop anyone or hold leads. The year Eli threw 6 TDs against NO, and Brees threw 7 'cause there was NO defense.



Spags is failing this year, still with plenty of talent. The team is 29th in defensive DVOA. He's no one's genius.

McAdoo might be a decent OC, but he clearly isn't a good HC and he definitely can't handle being being HC + OC.


*27th, not 29th.
Not optimistic about that  
SomeFan : 10/11/2017 8:27 pm : link
I cannot stand HCs who have their heads buried in a placard all game. He seems like a poser with his stupid sunglasses and slicked back hair.
IF he had a real O line he would be candidate for coach of the year  
Glover : 10/11/2017 10:37 pm : link
but he doesn't and the defense has taken a step back, and then we see what he is made of, and he doesn't seem to be a unifying force at the helm.
Has Benny Hill even utter one word to a ref yet?  
SHO'NUFF : 10/11/2017 10:50 pm : link
After shitty calls, his nose is buried in that Chinese dinner menu.
Call me crazy  
djstat : 10/12/2017 12:16 am : link
Being a head coach and managing the clock should not be that hard. Feel for the game. High School coaches coach games without the benefit of instant replay and television etc.

Heck there is even a 2 point conversion chart.

So I think Mac does not know how to manage a game and run the offense.
Two Point Conversion Chart - ( New Window )
Channeling Belichik in pressers  
gmenatlarge : 10/12/2017 8:20 am : link
doesn't really fly when you haven't WON anything!

And oh yeah, 0-6 since the stupid boat trip!!!!!
the Giants owners have no right to bring in  
Jersey55 : 10/13/2017 11:18 am : link
a head coach like McAdoo who is simply not ready for prime time, he needs to go some place else for on the job training on how to be a head coach....
No one can say with certainty  
LG in NYC : 10/13/2017 11:24 am : link
if he can eventually become a decent HC.

but FMiC has laid out exactly why he is not a good one here currently and shows no signs of becoming one.
I think its a lot like  
Peppers : 10/13/2017 12:46 pm : link
the Cowboys and Jason Garrett. He wasn't really ready to be HC so they banked on him learning on the job. They gave him his time and he eventually became pretty good. Was it worth the wait? I don't think so.

Let McAdoo learn somewhere else.
Can is an interesting word choice...  
Dan in the Springs : 10/13/2017 12:52 pm : link
of course he can. He has to transform how he coaches.

The better question is will he? I'm thinking not, but mostly because the NFL is a bad place to learn on the job. People are impatient and don't want to suffer while a coach learns on the job.

If he is going to have a chance, the Giants is one of the best organizations for that chance, because they seem to be one of the more patient orgs. Also, the history of losing out on great young coaches is ever present in their mind, so they aren't as likely to be reactionary.
Interesting question...  
TheEvilLurker : 10/13/2017 1:47 pm : link
I tend to look at these things as a spectrum:

1) What was he like at his best?
2) What was he like at his worst?

The truth is that he probably lies somewhere in between, but is there a trend that supports him getting better?

1) Last year, the close wins point towards a skill at game management, although it is trending downwards. Is it all on the coaching? No, but there are a few tendencies that point to this not improving over time (runs to the outside on short yardage, not controlling the clock last week or putting people in the best place to succeed).

2) I think we are seeing the worst. I suppose it can be worse than this, but we are very close to that. It looks like this is trending downwards as well.

Based on the above, I can't see him turning around and being a good coach. This week will show a lot if they pull off the win, but I don't see it happening.
Did anyone watch the final 2 games of 2016 season  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/13/2017 1:50 pm : link
(Washington & Green Bay playoff game) and feel like this guy couldn't coach? Did anyone feel like he couldn't motivate players? Of course not. If the receivers had held onto the ball, who knows how that playoff game turns out. I've had issues with McAdoo's playcalling as a HC, but I wonder what the offense would look like with a halfway decent o-line. I don't think it's fair to say McAdoo can't be a good coach based on things that also happened under a Hall of Fame coach (long losing streaks, Odell behavior, etc.).

I understand they're 0-5, but the main problem appears to be the roster. As much as I've defended Jerry Reese, some of the problems now are the same problems at the end of TC's era and the main common link is the GM.
RE: Did anyone watch the final 2 games of 2016 season  
TheEvilLurker : 10/13/2017 2:58 pm : link
In comment 13647014 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
(Washington & Green Bay playoff game) and feel like this guy couldn't coach? Did anyone feel like he couldn't motivate players? Of course not. If the receivers had held onto the ball, who knows how that playoff game turns out. I've had issues with McAdoo's playcalling as a HC, but I wonder what the offense would look like with a halfway decent o-line. I don't think it's fair to say McAdoo can't be a good coach based on things that also happened under a Hall of Fame coach (long losing streaks, Odell behavior, etc.).

I understand they're 0-5, but the main problem appears to be the roster. As much as I've defended Jerry Reese, some of the problems now are the same problems at the end of TC's era and the main common link is the GM.


Watching the last three games this season (Phi, TB, LA Chargers) makes me think that he can't coach.

And almost all the games last season were not exactly an offensive explosion.

No doubt, the main problem is the roster. He just seems not to listen and/or put people where they have the best chance to succeed, especially on offense. As an offensive coach, this is a worrying sign.
Back to the Corner