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Interesting to note re: Giants and Landon Collins

Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/11/2017 5:17 pm
Unless they are late, they chose NOT to post video of Landon Collins' presser. And I haven't seen the transcript yet either. From the tweets I saw, he seemed to be siding with DRC over McAdoo.
Hmmm  
DennyInDenville : 10/11/2017 5:20 pm : link
Paul Schwartz @NYPost_Schwartz

3h
Landon Collins says DRC did not leave the team, that he had a disagreement with McAdoo and McAdoo suspended him.
Again  
joeinpa : 10/11/2017 5:22 pm : link
Sounds like an insecure coach trying to show he s in charge
McAdoo may be an insecure coach,  
Mad Mike : 10/11/2017 5:24 pm : link
but the suspension of Collins sounds wholly warranted.
Pouring gasoline on the fire!  
Sammo85 : 10/11/2017 5:36 pm : link
Boy, now the whole organization is trying to embarrass themselves.
The Giants should be open to trading every player on the roster  
Go Terps : 10/11/2017 5:41 pm : link
Collins is one of the few that could be realistically moved. I love him as a player and have nothing against him, but IMO this is a complete tear down situation, and we should be amassing draft picks at every available opportunity.
RE: The Giants should be open to trading every player on the roster  
BigBlueShock : 10/11/2017 5:44 pm : link
In comment 13643678 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Collins is one of the few that could be realistically moved. I love him as a player and have nothing against him, but IMO this is a complete tear down situation, and we should be amassing draft picks at every available opportunity.

Trade Collins now? Jeezus.
RE: RE: The Giants should be open to trading every player on the roster  
Go Terps : 10/11/2017 5:47 pm : link
In comment 13643686 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13643678 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Collins is one of the few that could be realistically moved. I love him as a player and have nothing against him, but IMO this is a complete tear down situation, and we should be amassing draft picks at every available opportunity.


Trade Collins now? Jeezus.


Trade everybody you can. By the time this team is any good it's likely Collins will be on the FA market.

IMO this is a complete teardown. Shit, if you can find someone to take Eli's contract, do it.

Just start over. This is a shitshow.
RE: RE: RE: The Giants should be open to trading every player on the roster  
robbieballs2003 : 10/11/2017 5:50 pm : link
In comment 13643693 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13643686 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 13643678 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Collins is one of the few that could be realistically moved. I love him as a player and have nothing against him, but IMO this is a complete tear down situation, and we should be amassing draft picks at every available opportunity.


Trade Collins now? Jeezus.



Trade everybody you can. By the time this team is any good it's likely Collins will be on the FA market.

IMO this is a complete teardown. Shit, if you can find someone to take Eli's contract, do it.

Just start over. This is a shitshow.


So, take a pro bowl player and trade him for picks that will be in the same pool as all the garbage we have drafted? No thanks.
Hey I really like Collins  
Go Terps : 10/11/2017 5:56 pm : link
He's one of the few guys on this team worth watching play.

This is more of a commentary on the state of the team, and the timeline going forward. If he's a Giant in 3 years I'd be surprised, and if the team is any good (with him or without him) in that period of time I'd be even more surprised.
you don't trade generational talent at key positions  
Nitro : 10/11/2017 6:02 pm : link
you build teams around it.
RE: you don't trade generational talent at key positions  
Go Terps : 10/11/2017 6:04 pm : link
In comment 13643714 Nitro said:
Quote:
you build teams around it.


I'm not sure the NFL works that way anymore. It seems to me that when you have a particular guy is every bit as important as who that particular guy is.
I don't go tear down mode  
RetroJint : 10/11/2017 6:08 pm : link
That's an expansion team. Who needs that? Collins is one of the integral players on the team. He's been mediocre so far. Needs to play like last season, although admittedly the comp is better so it's harder for him to do so.
GoTerps  
BigBlueShock : 10/11/2017 6:11 pm : link
It seeming more and more that you have a Madden addiction. Every move you ever recommend wreaks of it. This isn't you trying to run a dynasty on a video game. You don't trade Pro Bowl players in their prime, players that are maybe the best at their positions in the league, for freaking draft picks. It's fun in Madden to see how you can build a team, but it's not real life.
It's like he doesn't believe there's reasons Collins would be  
Nitro : 10/11/2017 6:13 pm : link
pissed - Terps is basically saying the beatings will continue until morale improves. McAdoo is a clown and clearly this is the Peter Principle at play.
RE: GoTerps  
Go Terps : 10/11/2017 6:13 pm : link
In comment 13643729 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
It seeming more and more that you have a Madden addiction. Every move you ever recommend wreaks of it. This isn't you trying to run a dynasty on a video game. You don't trade Pro Bowl players in their prime, players that are maybe the best at their positions in the league, for freaking draft picks. It's fun in Madden to see how you can build a team, but it's not real life.


Great post.
RE: RE: GoTerps  
BigBlueShock : 10/11/2017 6:15 pm : link
In comment 13643732 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13643729 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


It seeming more and more that you have a Madden addiction. Every move you ever recommend wreaks of it. This isn't you trying to run a dynasty on a video game. You don't trade Pro Bowl players in their prime, players that are maybe the best at their positions in the league, for freaking draft picks. It's fun in Madden to see how you can build a team, but it's not real life.



Great post.

Thanks. What season are you in?
Mac has NEVER had control of this team  
ZogZerg : 10/11/2017 6:16 pm : link
It has final caught up to him.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/11/2017 6:22 pm : link
The entire point of draft picks is so that you can draft players like Landon Collins. We could spend our next 10 second rounders EASILY and not get a player of Collins' quality in any of those 10 tries.

Draft picks are an integral part of building a franchise, but then people become so obsessed with draft picks and stockpiling them that they never actually want the players you use them to draft with - they just want more of the picks.

Collins has been a good soldier thus far and before this shitshow of a season, people were calling him an elite safety and one of the best in football.

Draft picks are lottery tickets with mixed (and typically low) return odds.

It's like hitting fairly big on a scratch-off and then deciding you're not content with the money you won and that you'd rather just buy 5,000 more scratch-off's instead.
You can't get rid of every player that has an opinion  
Mike from Ohio : 10/11/2017 6:28 pm : link
or isn't blindly regurgitating the company line. You hire people that can control them and get the most out of them. You don't trade a player like Landon Collins playing on a rookie contract to get picks because he may or may not leave. High character guys are wonderful, but you win in the NFL with talent, not good citizens.

You also win by building a winning culture, which means overcoming strife and personalities. You can't build that culture by simply reloading on rookies every year.

RE: McAdoo may be an insecure coach,  
Emil : 10/11/2017 6:33 pm : link
In comment 13643633 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
but the suspension of Collins sounds wholly warranted.


you mean DRC right?

And I agree, yes DRC deserved a suspension. However, to paraphrase something I heard once, if you are waiting until week 6 to exercise some leadership, you are far too late.
People want to trade the best offensive  
B in ALB : 10/11/2017 6:35 pm : link
and now best defensive player on the team.

RE: .  
Go Terps : 10/11/2017 6:35 pm : link
In comment 13643749 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The entire point of draft picks is so that you can draft players like Landon Collins. We could spend our next 10 second rounders EASILY and not get a player of Collins' quality in any of those 10 tries.

Draft picks are an integral part of building a franchise, but then people become so obsessed with draft picks and stockpiling them that they never actually want the players you use them to draft with - they just want more of the picks.

Collins has been a good soldier thus far and before this shitshow of a season, people were calling him an elite safety and one of the best in football.

Draft picks are lottery tickets with mixed (and typically low) return odds.

It's like hitting fairly big on a scratch-off and then deciding you're not content with the money you won and that you'd rather just buy 5,000 more scratch-off's instead.


My point is I don't expect Collins to be here more than another couple years, and those years figure to be lean even if he's playing at a high level. So, what's the point?

If we get a new GM and new coaches, the turnover of the roster is going to be enormous. What are the chances that:

1. Collins stays healthy the next couple years
2. He maintains a high level of play
3. Whomever the new GM/coach are will want to pay a safety premium money
4. He wants to stay here

That all has to align in order for it to make sense to retain him, IMO. And I'd apply that reasoning to every single player on the roster. Obviously most teams won't trade for our players...many of our players suck and the ones that don't aren't earning their paychecks. Collins is an exception. He's good and he doesn't make much money.

If we're going to rebuild, I say really rebuild.
RE: People want to trade the best offensive  
Go Terps : 10/11/2017 6:36 pm : link
In comment 13643764 B in ALB said:
Quote:
and now best defensive player on the team.



I don't WANT to trade him. I don't WANT a 2-14 team. But here we are.
Terps  
B in ALB : 10/11/2017 6:38 pm : link
you don't trade your two best players - especially a guy like Collins who - once some of the dead weight is gone (JPP and some of the others) - will lead the defense. The guy is still playing his ass off every damn game. Can't say the rest for some of the other players on D.
B  
Go Terps : 10/11/2017 6:43 pm : link
I completely agree on Collins. Guy is a beast. The only point I'm making is that there's a good chance he's gone anyway by the time his excellent play is going to make any real difference.

If he (hopefully) keeps playing the way he is, he's gonna rightfully want huge money. Is a new GM going to want to give him that? A guy he didn't draft? I don't think that's a sure thing.

I guess we get a comp pick if he signs elsewhere, but still...

Collins is one of the few guys on the team I enjoy watching. I don't want to trade him. My point is that this team should be all about hoarding two things right now: draft picks and cap space. This team is fucked beyond anything a player even as good as Landon Collins can unfuck.

It's also funny to see JPP referred to as dead weight. It would be hilarious to go back and read what people were saying about him this summer.
RE: The Giants should be open to trading every player on the roster  
est1986 : 10/11/2017 6:46 pm : link
In comment 13643678 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Collins is one of the few that could be realistically moved. I love him as a player and have nothing against him, but IMO this is a complete tear down situation, and we should be amassing draft picks at every available opportunity.


Dumbest post on BBI this season.. and there have been alot of "gems" this season but this takes the cake.
nah Collins is off the table, don't be silly  
Overseer : 10/11/2017 6:50 pm : link
16
16
5

That's games started in his career. Coupled with him being unbelievable with the ball in front of him (he & the Giants do need a better FS), 23, and seemingly a team leader, he's patently part of the solution. But generally speaking I'm on board with a fire sale, especially for older and/or oft-injured players.

If you can get a 2nd for Eli, do it and unless there's a QB you really like in the draft (TBD) sign Alex Smith for 2018 if the contract isn't outrageous.

.  
arcarsenal : 10/11/2017 6:51 pm : link
I think Collins will be an impact player for several years - long enough to even be a part of a large turnover and still be a part of the solution.

He's only in his 3rd year. A rebuild will likely take a little time but it shouldn't take so long that Collins will no longer be playing at a high level when we're ready to compete again.

He's a guy I think can and should be a part of the solution. Yeah, he'll need to be paid - but the guy is a really good player, he plays hard, and he's the type of guy I want in this locker room going forward.
RE: .  
Go Terps : 10/11/2017 6:53 pm : link
In comment 13643781 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I think Collins will be an impact player for several years - long enough to even be a part of a large turnover and still be a part of the solution.

He's only in his 3rd year. A rebuild will likely take a little time but it shouldn't take so long that Collins will no longer be playing at a high level when we're ready to compete again.

He's a guy I think can and should be a part of the solution. Yeah, he'll need to be paid - but the guy is a really good player, he plays hard, and he's the type of guy I want in this locker room going forward.


Agree with all of this. Whether an incoming GM and coaching staff will agree could be another matter entirely. And will Collins still want to be here with said new GM and coaching staff?

There are a lot of moving parts for Collins. There really are for every player, actually. The upheaval of a new coach and GM is pretty damn significant.
I'm sorry  
B in ALB : 10/11/2017 6:56 pm : link
but I don't think this team is as bad - talent-wise - as the record shows. They should be performing 100% better than they are now.

You mean to tell me a coach like Belichick wouldn't have these guys at 5-0 right now?

Hell, even a middling coach would have them at least at 3-2. You can't have this much talent on the team and be 0-5.

The fish stinks from the head down, folks.

There is a clear divide in the locker room...  
Slade : 10/11/2017 6:58 pm : link
Those that McAdoo lost and those that won't admit that he lost them...

Change gon' come...
We lost two games by less than FG's when...  
est1986 : 10/11/2017 7:05 pm : link
We failed to convert on 4th down despite being in FG range... If coach sends out Rosas for two chip shots then this team is at least 2-3 based on those simple decisions alone not to mention a bunch of game management and play calling issues... I don't understand being 0-5... on paper coming in we knew the OL was a huge problem still and a total miss by Reese but this team is better than 0-5 based on the talent on paper... The HC or GM, or both of them owe their job at the end of this awful season.
I think there are a couple fundamental problems with the roster  
Go Terps : 10/11/2017 7:06 pm : link
1. The offensive line is obviously an atrocity.
2. The defensive ends eat an enormous amount of cap space, but can't generate a pass rush to save their lives. The Vernon and JPP contracts are disastrous.
3. With Apple being a goofball and DRC out the door, the corner depth is completely gone all of a sudden.
4. It kills me to say it, but Eli Manning has dropped a couple levels. He's good enough to get the job done, but he needs a really good line in front of him to do it and we obviously don't have that. Broken plays are a way of life now in the NFL (look around to the kinds of plays mobile QBs are making)...and that is not a part of Eli's game.
5. Beckham and Shepard both just suffered lower body injuries...how will they recover? Lower body injuries for guys that rely on explosiveness are pretty scary things.
6. The linebackers continue to be an atrocity. Goodson and Kennard were probably born 20 years too late, and the other guys can't play in any era.

The defense isn't good, and the offense is worse. And on top of that the team is completely devoid of leadership, and there's a healthy smattering of assholes.

Just a bad team.
I donít think it is all McAdoo  
Vanzetti : 10/11/2017 7:23 pm : link
I donít a lot of the players appreciated Maras statements about the anthem

So I think it is more the general team atmosphere than a dislike of McAdoo: of course losing is the biggest factor
RE: There is a clear divide in the locker room...  
Rjanyg : 10/11/2017 7:44 pm : link
In comment 13643792 Slade said:
Quote:
Those that McAdoo lost and those that won't admit that he lost them...

Change gon' come...


Hi Slade. How ya doing?
RE: I think there are a couple fundamental problems with the roster  
DaveW2 : 10/11/2017 7:59 pm : link
In comment 13643798 Go Terps said:
Quote:
1. The offensive line is obviously an atrocity.
2. The defensive ends eat an enormous amount of cap space, but can't generate a pass rush to save their lives. The Vernon and JPP contracts are disastrous.
3. With Apple being a goofball and DRC out the door, the corner depth is completely gone all of a sudden.
4. It kills me to say it, but Eli Manning has dropped a couple levels. He's good enough to get the job done, but he needs a really good line in front of him to do it and we obviously don't have that. Broken plays are a way of life now in the NFL (look around to the kinds of plays mobile QBs are making)...and that is not a part of Eli's game.
5. Beckham and Shepard both just suffered lower body injuries...how will they recover? Lower body injuries for guys that rely on explosiveness are pretty scary things.
6. The linebackers continue to be an atrocity. Goodson and Kennard were probably born 20 years too late, and the other guys can't play in any era.

The defense isn't good, and the offense is worse. And on top of that the team is completely devoid of leadership, and there's a healthy smattering of assholes.

Just a bad team.


Good breakdown of the personnel issues, Terps. That obviously is part of the problem, but as someone previously mentioned, their record could look a lot better if not for a few questionable game management decisions. And now it looks like the morale of the team is starting to unravel. Lot of blame to go around, and not looking good for our team this year, and maybe the next few years.

Changes have to be made otherwise it's looking rather grim. Mr Mara, what are you going to do?
You guys are sniffing airplane glue ...  
Bluesbreaker : 10/11/2017 10:26 pm : link
The defense played there guts out last year and some JPP
succumb to injuries they kept them in the game against the
Packers but finally folded .
Why because of the inept offense and the problem was as clear as day the O-line needed two starters and we needed a full time back . MacGenious anointed Perkins as the solution .
We atche the Draft and free agency pass by and you roll out
essentially the same lineup with the exception of the aging Marshal and a two TE's there is only one ball to go around
and you know who is gonna get the bulk of the throws .
We get into the pre=season and it's the same offense except this time you know who got banged up as did the aging addition . Perkins just flat out stunk as did the O-line
even in pre-season the three and outs were there again .
we couldn't get any real game practice because again the defense was playing the majority of the snaps we have no bench to speak of and it showed early on .
We put out tinted Blue shades on thinking this joke of an offensive line was gonna jell .
This is on Reese and Mac who has lost the team the snipes starting coming out . Collins is one of the best Safeties in Football DRC is no slouch and he has been around long enough to know BS when he see's it . You heard Apple groaning you seen Snacks walk off without a comment Jenkins leave early . I know its not because of Spags ....
The guys that are chiming in are some of our best players .
almost all Defense . If you have to buy your starters what does that tell you about the bench . It would be a crime if
Eli did not finish his career here and the fact that they have pissed away the last 6 seasons is reason enough the QB
Has never been the Problem and he still isn't . This offense doesn't have an ounce of continuity and they still
can't execute basic line stunts .
Interesting that the team can go from  
an_idol_mind : 10/11/2017 10:35 pm : link
6-10 to 11-5 and then start 0-5, but folks thinks this is a hopeless situation for years.

Franchises can turn around quickly very often in the NFL. The 2003 Giants went 4-12, prompting a regime change. Two years later, they won the division and didn't have a losing season again until 2013.

If you've got a young, talented player who is in good health, it's worth keeping him - especially if the next GM is more dedicated than Reese has been when it comes to keeping talent on the roster instead of letting it walk when the rookie deal is done.
RE: It's like he doesn't believe there's reasons Collins would be  
FStubbs : 10/12/2017 6:34 am : link
In comment 13643731 Nitro said:
Quote:
pissed - Terps is basically saying the beatings will continue until morale improves. McAdoo is a clown and clearly this is the Peter Principle at play.


WOrse than that. I don't know if I have any evidence he's a competent coach on any level.
RE: I think there are a couple fundamental problems with the roster  
Bernie : 10/12/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13643798 Go Terps said:
Quote:
1. The offensive line is obviously an atrocity.
2. The defensive ends eat an enormous amount of cap space, but can't generate a pass rush to save their lives. The Vernon and JPP contracts are disastrous.
3. With Apple being a goofball and DRC out the door, the corner depth is completely gone all of a sudden.
4. It kills me to say it, but Eli Manning has dropped a couple levels. He's good enough to get the job done, but he needs a really good line in front of him to do it and we obviously don't have that. Broken plays are a way of life now in the NFL (look around to the kinds of plays mobile QBs are making)...and that is not a part of Eli's game.
5. Beckham and Shepard both just suffered lower body injuries...how will they recover? Lower body injuries for guys that rely on explosiveness are pretty scary things.
6. The linebackers continue to be an atrocity. Goodson and Kennard were probably born 20 years too late, and the other guys can't play in any era.

The defense isn't good, and the offense is worse. And on top of that the team is completely devoid of leadership, and there's a healthy smattering of assholes.

Just a bad team.


This is a good summary of the state of the Giants. Good news is that you can cut Vernon after the season and actually save money against the cap. Bad news is that JPP and his contract are here for at least another year. The O-line needs to be fixed - at least 2 new starters and possibly 4; Flowers will be a starter next year - like it or not. DRC is probably gone after the season saving more money against the cap, but I think with Apple and Jenkins they should be fine at corner. Lord knows I have been critical of Collins' play this year, but I believe he is a foundation of the defense for the long term; regardless of a complete rebuild or tweaking. Love Eli, but his limitations are magnified by the way football is played in today's NFL. Future QB's need to have the ability to consistently make accurate throws while on the run. Fully expect to be drafting in the top 5 this year, so make sure whichever QB they take meets this standard. With a better O-Line, I don't think the running back situation is as bad a others believe.
RE: Hey I really like Collins  
Knee of Theismann : 10/12/2017 11:51 am : link
In comment 13643707 Go Terps said:
Quote:
He's one of the few guys on this team worth watching play.

This is more of a commentary on the state of the team, and the timeline going forward. If he's a Giant in 3 years I'd be surprised, and if the team is any good (with him or without him) in that period of time I'd be even more surprised.


GoTerps,

"This is more of a commentary on the state of the team" ?

OK so you admit you are just making a comment on how shitty the team is, not ACTUALLY suggesting trading Collins is a good idea? Meaning you're just saying we suck and saying "Trade Collins" out of anger, right? So pretty much let's trade everybody on the team just because YOU'RE mad we are 0-5? I'm glad the decisions management actually makes in real life are not based on this. "Yeah, trade Collins, THEN everyone will REALLY know that we think this team sucks!"

I get that you are pissed, we all are, but please stick to making suggestions that you think will actually help the team. It's a waste of time for everyone to entertain your ideas that you yourself probably don't even agree with.
KoT  
Go Terps : 10/12/2017 12:15 pm : link
It's not a move suggested out of anger at all. Just looking at the likely timeline of Collins's career arc overlapped with when (I think) the Giants will be competitive again.

I think everything has to be on the table.
NFL teams can go from bad to very good in ~2 seasons time  
Nitro : 10/12/2017 1:19 pm : link
with a single season turn around possible with luck. The perennial underachievers have systemic issues - we're letting one fester the longer the mustached dope is involved.
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