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What really happened to the Giants.

George from PA : 10/12/2017 6:35 am
One afternoon, while John Mara and Woody Johnson were at their billionaire club, they were discussing their respective teams and the subject of culture came up. John felt culture was extremely important while Woody thought it was crazy. He felt it was all about talent. John explained that every team has talent...they just couldn't agree and made a gentleman bet. Their teams would swap cultures and see what happens.....



Anyone else have a better explaination?
what happened was they didn't protect "The Dukes"  
micky : 10/12/2017 6:39 am : link
.....
You never know what is going to happen when you lose  
Rjanyg : 10/12/2017 7:40 am : link
Or let a great football coach go. Tom Coughlin is a great football man. He was the guy that went to the combine in 2003 even though he didn't have a team. He was the disciplinarian who learned to show love his players a little more and it changed the way players looked at him. Michael Strahan hated him in 2004 and now loves the man.

Ben McAdoo had to follow a great Giant coach and is having a very hard time. What we are finding out right now is that Coughlin should have never left but you don't know what you got until it's gone.

Culture and chemistry are real things that make good teams great or a lack of chemistry can take talented team and have them play like 53 individuals. Add injuries, bad decisions in game and poor personnel decisions and what we have here is your New York Giants.

Through all of this there is one constant....Eli. He works hard, says the right things and tries to elevate his team.
Coughlin was a great coach  
joeinpa : 10/12/2017 7:52 am : link
But the decline began on his watch
RE: Coughlin was a great coach  
HomerJones45 : 10/12/2017 7:58 am : link
In comment 13645091 joeinpa said:
Quote:
But the decline began on his watch
keep telling yourself that despite all evidence that the issues are elsewhere. You and your merry band are the gang that can't shoot straight.
I think Tom  
mdthedream : 10/12/2017 7:58 am : link
would still be here but I think age caught up with him. Esp making game time decision like clock management and situations.
.......  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 10/12/2017 8:18 am : link
Bad drafts, bad free agent contracts not allowing improvement in other areas, career ending injuries to core players.

Well, I was hoping for funny explainations  
George from PA : 10/12/2017 8:30 am : link
Like my version of trading places
The offensive line went down the tubes and so did the team.  
Britt in VA : 10/12/2017 8:37 am : link
Coughlin/Gilbride could no longer run the offensive philosophy they wanted to run and that was the end.

You can cite a bunch of other stuff, but it all traces back to that. That was the beginning of the end.
What happened  
blueblood'11 : 10/12/2017 8:37 am : link
They hired the wrong man to lead this team. He tried to turn Eli into a West Coast QB and well, look at how dysfunctional the offense is. Itís clear the lack of discipline. And his in game management is terrible. Simple as that.
George ...  
Spider56 : 10/12/2017 8:50 am : link
Subtlety doesn't work very well on this site but your post made me smile ... Question: Who's our Ophelia ?
It had to be...  
BamaBlue : 10/12/2017 8:58 am : link
Talent is there - The damn coach  
bronxgiant : 10/12/2017 9:13 am : link
stinks. Dumb play calling is killing this team. The players can see this.
They became victims of their own success  
jcn56 : 10/12/2017 9:18 am : link
From both a coaching and a player personnel perspective, they insisted on sticking to the 'winning formula' rather than take an honest evaluation and see how the landscape around them evolved to determine whether they should modify the approach.

That's why we had the coordinator merry-go-round with Coughlin, that ultimately resulted in Gilbride exiting the building. Changes to the CBA meant less practice time and rendered the offensive concepts less effective, but there was no change until McAdoo was hired.

That's why we're seeing player personnel issues too - a reluctance to adjust pro personnel philosophy (devalued OL, LB, increased value at DE and CB). What worked as a template for building a team to win a SB 10 years ago is not working the same way now.

That's why it's time to hit the reboot button.
RE: The offensive line went down the tubes and so did the team.  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 10/12/2017 9:24 am : link
In comment 13645132 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Coughlin/Gilbride could no longer run the offensive philosophy they wanted to run and that was the end.

You can cite a bunch of other stuff, but it all traces back to that. That was the beginning of the end.


Going to agree with Britt here.
Here's mine, slightly different but the same idea  
PatersonPlank : 10/12/2017 9:48 am : link
One afternoon, while John Mara and Woody Johnson were at their billionaire club, they were discussing their respective teams and the subject of coaching came up. John felt coaching was extremely important while Woody thought it was crazy. He felt it was all about talent. John explained that every team has talent...they just couldn't agree and made a gentleman bet. John's team would bring Ha***ey back, a failed coach from the past, and see what happens to his 11-5 playoff team.
RE: I think Tom  
oldutican : 10/12/2017 9:49 am : link
In comment 13645099 mdthedream said:
Quote:
would still be here but I think age caught up with him. Esp making game time decision like clock management and situations.


How is this season any different than Coughlin's last 3? Bonehead plays, missed tackles, poor special teams, last second losses, injuries. I think some of you want the team to lose so you can whoop about how the Giants did wrong by good ole TC.
RE: Here's mine, slightly different but the same idea  
Britt in VA : 10/12/2017 9:50 am : link
In comment 13645268 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
One afternoon, while John Mara and Woody Johnson were at their billionaire club, they were discussing their respective teams and the subject of coaching came up. John felt coaching was extremely important while Woody thought it was crazy. He felt it was all about talent. John explained that every team has talent...they just couldn't agree and made a gentleman bet. John's team would bring Ha***ey back, a failed coach from the past, and see what happens to his 11-5 playoff team.


The bet amount? One dollar.
Have to remember...  
Giant John : 10/12/2017 9:51 am : link
Coaches and players are people with different personalities so there will be times when things can fall apart. It happens in everyone's life at some point. Losing doesn't help either. What's the expression? Life is like a box of chocolates...
Hang in everyone. The ship will right itself.
what happened was that John let Chris Mara...  
EricJ : 10/12/2017 10:02 am : link
like in "Tommy Boy" get too involved in the business.
The Giantís ownership have cultivated a loserís mentality for the past  
joe48 : 10/12/2017 10:02 am : link
Six years. John Mara must be content with a mediocre product because he has not held key people accountable for the success of the organization. As long as the fans keep showing up and buying jerseys the money keeps rolling in. You can blame the GM and HC but the real problem is with ownership.
John Mara  
spike : 10/12/2017 10:05 am : link
is starting to be like Jim Dolan
RE: John Mara  
jcn56 : 10/12/2017 10:08 am : link
In comment 13645301 spike said:
Quote:
is starting to be like Jim Dolan


Oh for fuck's sake - really?

Losing really does bring out the stupid in some of you people.
rookie coach syndrome  
giantfan2000 : 10/12/2017 10:13 am : link
didn't this happen with Eagles --
Chip Kelly came in and surprised everyone with going to playoffs
then the wheels came off the next year and he was out
someone mentioned teams with very good records that coughlin  
idiotsavant : 10/12/2017 10:54 am : link
beat during runs.

Now, lets go in the wayback machine.

Those Giants teams were fundamentally sound. Sometimes just. But fundamentally sound. And they were tight, in the sense of no bullshit.

So, the question at the time, in the back of our minds, was, we did not feel very dynamic, did not seem to have a hyped up upside on offense, and even knew that on defense, it would have to be a team effort.

The question was always "can this team pull together and play above its own level...sometimes well above"

or, vs Pats 15-0 team, "can we not only play above our own level, but can we incorporate things to beat this team by next week?"

NOW....todays team is not fundamentally sound, but has (had prior to last week) -all sorts- of dynamic upside players on offense.


Think of it. This team has NEVER has a wr as good as Becks. NEVER. but has -rarely if ever- lacked the fundamentals as we do now.

Eli's gravy train selling fake jerseys ran out,  
BigBlue in Keys : 10/12/2017 11:05 am : link
so he convinced the entire team to tank and bet the under on wins in Vegas. Guy will do anything to keep money flowing to charity I guess.
RE: RE: The offensive line went down the tubes and so did the team.  
RobCarpenter : 10/12/2017 12:37 pm : link
In comment 13645220 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
In comment 13645132 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Coughlin/Gilbride could no longer run the offensive philosophy they wanted to run and that was the end.

You can cite a bunch of other stuff, but it all traces back to that. That was the beginning of the end.

Going to agree with Britt here.


+1. And you can put that on Reese's inability to fix the OL. 2011 was an aberration -- the demise of the running game has killed this team's offense, and that's directly related to the piss poor OL play.

.  
MOOPS : 10/12/2017 1:23 pm : link


"Oh Miss Crabtree, I come to you with heavy hands."
Coughlin  
Giantslifer : 10/12/2017 1:42 pm : link
He was a great coach. IN 2012. Team went stale , bad drafts etc...
It was time to go. A lot of his philosophy needs to be retained.
Need to see if Mac Magoo is the man. How will he respond
One dollar...  
ArcadeSlumlord : 10/12/2017 1:57 pm : link
RE: RE: Coughlin was a great coach  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/12/2017 2:21 pm : link
In comment 13645098 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 13645091 joeinpa said:


Quote:


But the decline began on his watch

keep telling yourself that despite all evidence that the issues are elsewhere. You and your merry band are the gang that can't shoot straight.

What does that even mean?
RE: Coughlin was a great coach  
SomeFan : 10/12/2017 4:47 pm : link
In comment 13645091 joeinpa said:
Quote:
But the decline began on his watch


The decline began with the folks picking the talent.
RE: RE: Coughlin was a great coach  
SomeFan : 10/12/2017 4:52 pm : link
In comment 13646002 SomeFan said:
Quote:
In comment 13645091 joeinpa said:


Quote:


But the decline began on his watch



The decline began with the folks picking the talent.


Magnified by the choice of HC who seems more interested in staring at his list of plays than what is happening on the field.
RE: RE: Coughlin was a great coach  
HomerJones45 : 10/12/2017 5:04 pm : link
In comment 13646002 SomeFan said:
Quote:
In comment 13645091 joeinpa said:


Quote:


But the decline began on his watch



The decline began with the folks picking the talent.
Bingo. A fixation on bargain basement finds and projects, shallow drafts, bad drafts, wasted top pikcs, refusing to sign homegrown talent so the same position(s) had to be drafted year after year, a total failure to get anything out of UDFA or the practice squad.

The DC got the blame, the OC got the blame, the HC got the blame. Well, when all the other possibilities have been removed and there is still a problem . . and yet there are people who still don't get it.
RE: RE: RE: Coughlin was a great coach  
HomerJones45 : 10/12/2017 5:13 pm : link
In comment 13646016 SomeFan said:
Quote:
In comment 13646002 SomeFan said:


Quote:


In comment 13645091 joeinpa said:


Quote:


But the decline began on his watch



The decline began with the folks picking the talent.



Magnified by the choice of HC who seems more interested in staring at his list of plays than what is happening on the field.
He doesn't help. The team badly needed a head of football operations who could implement a vision from top to bottom (gee, where could we have found one of those?), but the twits in the owners' box and the two boobs in the GM suite would have never allowed it.
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