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0-6 in 2013 vs. 0-5 in 2017

Britt in VA : 10/12/2017 8:56 am
Intneresting comparison. In 2013, there was no panic, nobody quit, nobody got suspended or pointed the finger, nobody got thrown under the bus....

After starting 0-6 in 2013, Coughlin was able to keep it steady and win 7 games. We even got to 5-6 at one point, and were one game out of first place with a game to play against the first place Cowboys and a chance to take the division lead. May have been one of his greatest coaching jobs of his career, although it is considered by many to be his worst.

Wonder what will happen this season?
The ship  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/12/2017 8:58 am : link
be sinking, if it's not already sunk.

At best, I'm hoping for 2 wins.
0-6 became 1-6 in 2013  
The_Boss : 10/12/2017 8:58 am : link
0-5 is likely becoming 0-7. And there arenít 7 wins on the schedule.
And people thought our Running Backs were bad this year  
jlukes : 10/12/2017 9:00 am : link
2013 was

Andrew Brown
Peyton Hillis
Michael Cox


We lucked  
terz22 : 10/12/2017 9:03 am : link
Out that season since I remember beating a bunch of shitty back up QBs like Scott Tolizen and Josh Freeman. That being said to match 7 wins this season seems like a impossible feat.
.  
I Love Clams Casino : 10/12/2017 9:05 am : link
Britt you make some good points  
Chris684 : 10/12/2017 9:07 am : link
but a few things.

We got to 4-6 after taking advantage of a bunch of 2nd and 3rd string QBs but then we got beat by Dallas @ home and that was that.

It is a credit to Coughlin that the team stayed together at least, but I see it as an apples to oranges comparison anyway.

This year is much worse because the team is a lot more talented.
What's the takeaway here?  
jcn56 : 10/12/2017 9:09 am : link
That a 2nd year head coach doesn't have the same command over a team that the 11 season 2 time SB winning coach does?

Or the implication that some great coaching job was done when the team opened at 0-6 that season?

Not sure what this thread is trying to do.
To counter that  
10thAve : 10/12/2017 9:12 am : link
How would you explain the multiple second half poor showings (collapses?) under Coughlin? 2006, 2009, 2015. It goes both ways.

I'm not trying to turn this into a Coughlin-MacAdoo debate - we know who wins that one, but Coughlin's slate isn't exactly flawless either.

With that said, this is shaping up to be one of the worst Giants seasons I've ever seen, having really started paying attention to them around 1984. Poor on field performance and now poor off field things too. Just when the offense starts scoring points, the defense looks listless. I'd be shocked if this team wins more than three games. Like everyone else, at this juncture I'm hoping they clean house in the front office and staff. Though that's probably being too hopeful.
The year before that...  
Milton : 10/12/2017 9:12 am : link
The Giants started 6-2 and finished 9-7.
2013 was an excellent coaching job by Coughlin  
Sean : 10/12/2017 9:14 am : link
Keeping the team together and finishing 7-3.
And the year after that...  
Milton : 10/12/2017 9:16 am : link
Coughlin camouflaged a seven game losing streak between two three game winning streaks.
Coughlin's teams didn't quit?  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/12/2017 9:16 am : link
I guess 2009 never happened.
Here's what I don't get with all the bitching and moaning right now  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/12/2017 9:17 am : link
The past 3 games were all winnable and we came very close to winning them. None of our games have been complete blowouts. We could have easily won the Eagles or Tampa games if those miracle field goals don't happen or if our ENTIRE WR corps doesn't fall apart.

I chaulk the first 2 losses, to the offense not playing together during the preseason, barely at all. Marshall barely played, OBJ didn't play after he got hurt. So Manning was out there throwing to the players we just called up to the Practice squad.

Now going back to the 2013 team's losing streak, Coughlin's teams were not competitive at all in 3 of those games. They were completely blown out.

That's 0-6  
gmenatlarge : 10/12/2017 9:19 am : link
going back to the stupid boat trip!
Beginning in his first year (2004)...  
Milton : 10/12/2017 9:20 am : link
When the Giants started 5-2 and finished 6-10, Coughlin's time with the Giants was characterized by winning streaks and losing streaks. Fortunately two of the winning streaks occurred during the playoffs.
There doesn't have to be a takeaway....  
Britt in VA : 10/12/2017 9:20 am : link
they are similar seasons to compare, and there aren't many of them in the modern history of the Giants to do that with.
RE: Here's what I don't get with all the bitching and moaning right now  
jcn56 : 10/12/2017 9:21 am : link
In comment 13645201 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
The past 3 games were all winnable and we came very close to winning them. None of our games have been complete blowouts. We could have easily won the Eagles or Tampa games if those miracle field goals don't happen or if our ENTIRE WR corps doesn't fall apart.

I chaulk the first 2 losses, to the offense not playing together during the preseason, barely at all. Marshall barely played, OBJ didn't play after he got hurt. So Manning was out there throwing to the players we just called up to the Practice squad.

Now going back to the 2013 team's losing streak, Coughlin's teams were not competitive at all in 3 of those games. They were completely blown out.


I have vivid flashbacks of the turnovers in Dallas that started off the 0-6 2013 season. Much like the first ones this season, that was an incredibly winnable game that we flushed down the toilet. Then, we pissed away a game to the Eagles when Vick got hurt and they were rescued by Nick fucking Foles of all people.

But yeah, it was all talent.
RE: Coughlin's teams didn't quit?  
Britt in VA : 10/12/2017 9:22 am : link
In comment 13645200 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
I guess 2009 never happened.


This thread is exclusively about 2013. Starting in an 0-6 hole makes it a unique situation. Similar to now.
2013 was so stunning to me  
Route 9 : 10/12/2017 9:24 am : link
For the first time in nearly 10 years (2004, Coughlins first year) we were watching irrelevant football where the Giants were mathematically out of the playoffs.

I think they still had a shot but they dug themselves into a deep hole by that point where they "had a shot if they beat Dallas to go 5-6" but it didn't matter.

I forget who it was on Dallas but they ripped the ball right out of Cruzs hand and returned it for a TD. I'm like yeah, this year is a waste.

This team is just trash. I hope they go 1-15, 2-14 just to show how awful they really are here in 2017.
as others have already  
Enzo : 10/12/2017 9:24 am : link
said, most of the wins they eventually got in 2013 were against awful QBs. Giving him "credit" for that season is some next level fanboy bullshit.
Danny Woodhead boxing out one of our  
Route 9 : 10/12/2017 9:25 am : link
garbage LBers for a jump ball even though Woodhead was 11 inches shorter than the LB lol in the Chargers game
RE: as others have already  
Britt in VA : 10/12/2017 9:27 am : link
In comment 13645219 Enzo said:
Quote:
said, most of the wins they eventually got in 2013 were against awful QBs. Giving him "credit" for that season is some next level fanboy bullshit.


It's relevant. Doesn't matter who they played. They could have packed it in at 0-6, like the current team appears to be doing. They didn't.
When Coughlin was McAdoo's age, he was in his first year...  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/12/2017 9:29 am : link
...coaching wide receivers for the Packers. He didn't even join Parcells until he was 42. 19 years after that, he would start building his real legacy, with the SB 42 run, the first of two amazing finishes that will remain his crowning achievements (and in all likelihood, Eli Manning's as well). By 2015, he looked played out and overmatched.

Comparisons between Coughlin and McAdoo are not interesting. They are pointless. The Giants may have picked the wrong guy to replace Coughlin, but that doesn't mean they were wrong to replace Coughlin.
The 2013 Giants were never 5-6  
Route 9 : 10/12/2017 9:31 am : link
If they beat Dallas week 12 at home, then they would've been 5-6. That was the game where Cruz got clowned out on that fumble return for a TD.
RE: When Coughlin was McAdoo's age, he was in his first year...  
Britt in VA : 10/12/2017 9:32 am : link
In comment 13645231 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
...coaching wide receivers for the Packers. He didn't even join Parcells until he was 42. 19 years after that, he would start building his real legacy, with the SB 42 run, the first of two amazing finishes that will remain his crowning achievements (and in all likelihood, Eli Manning's as well). By 2015, he looked played out and overmatched.

Comparisons between Coughlin and McAdoo are not interesting. They are pointless. The Giants may have picked the wrong guy to replace Coughlin, but that doesn't mean they were wrong to replace Coughlin.


Well there's not that much to talk about, is there? The season was essentially over in September.
2013 was a continuation of the end of 2012  
Sean : 10/12/2017 9:32 am : link
.
As this gets worse on a weekly basis  
The_Boss : 10/12/2017 9:33 am : link
Another question to ponder is whether the daily soap opera in the locker room rivals that of the 2006 team as they were in the midst of their 2nd half collapse. If I remember right, didnít Strahan berate a reporter while he was eating a damn hot dog?
I believe it's becoming abundantly clear....  
Britt in VA : 10/12/2017 9:34 am : link
that 2012-2015 was an organizational failure from top to bottom.

Coughlin played a part, but was ultimately scapegoated.
RE: 2013 was an excellent coaching job by Coughlin  
Tuckrule : 10/12/2017 9:34 am : link
In comment 13645195 Sean said:
Quote:
Keeping the team together and finishing 7-3.


This. Guys weren't walking off the field earlier. Leaving the facility and getting suspended. Mcadoo is a moron and his pressers are brutal. He comes off obvious and frankly just not a smart person. In way over his head
RE: We lucked  
HomerJones45 : 10/12/2017 9:36 am : link
In comment 13645174 terz22 said:
Quote:
Out that season since I remember beating a bunch of shitty back up QBs like Scott Tolizen and Josh Freeman. That being said to match 7 wins this season seems like a impossible feat.
I don't recall your posts about how lucky we were last season beating a bunch of lousy rookie qb's including 2 in our own division.

FYI, Tolzien threw for 339 yards against us in that game.
If Coughlin gets all the credit for bringing the team back from 0-6...  
Tesla : 10/12/2017 9:36 am : link
shouldn't he also get all the blame for the team starting 0-6?
Coughlin I believe is at the very bottom of who to blame  
Route 9 : 10/12/2017 9:37 am : link
For their failures. 2013 the offensive line was garbage. 2015 the defense was awful.

Bad players, bad results.
Britt: That's pretty much what I'm saying.  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/12/2017 9:39 am : link
Quote:
Well there's not that much to talk about, is there? The season was essentially over in September.
Yup. We all need other ways to keep busy on Sundays. Read a book. Play catch with your kids. Volunteer in a shelter, or on a political campaign - whatever floats your boat.

Might the Giants surprise us by showing signs of life on Sunday night, a la Graham-to-Toomer in 1998 or all those meaningless wins over scrub QBs in 2013? Sure... but one of the lessons of 2013 is that even really bad teams can look decent for a few weeks. That's why it's so hard to go 0-16.
Yeah, I'm doing all of those things....  
Britt in VA : 10/12/2017 9:41 am : link
The Giants no longer rule my Sundays, and while liberating, it sucks.
RE: When Coughlin was McAdoo's age, he was in his first year...  
Beer Man : 10/12/2017 9:46 am : link
In comment 13645231 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
...coaching wide receivers for the Packers. He didn't even join Parcells until he was 42. 19 years after that, he would start building his real legacy, with the SB 42 run, the first of two amazing finishes that will remain his crowning achievements (and in all likelihood, Eli Manning's as well). By 2015, he looked played out and overmatched.

Comparisons between Coughlin and McAdoo are not interesting. They are pointless. The Giants may have picked the wrong guy to replace Coughlin, but that doesn't mean they were wrong to replace Coughlin.
Actually TC's legacy started in 1995 when he became the first first HC of the expansion team Jaguars. While there, he was the most successful expansion HC in NFL history leading the Jags to four consecutive playoff appearances and to two AFC Championship Games. That's what TC did on his first NFL HC gig. Mac could one day may become a great coach, but right now he is lost and treading in Ray H. territory. Mac wasn't ready to be a NFL HC, and the Giants are suffering while he tries to learn on the job.
Lol the "I'm gonna do something else with my day" crowd  
Route 9 : 10/12/2017 9:48 am : link
Cool. I look forward to following up on all of your posts on the shitty 2017 team... all season long.
RE: RE: We lucked  
terz22 : 10/12/2017 9:48 am : link
In comment 13645244 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 13645174 terz22 said:


Quote:


Out that season since I remember beating a bunch of shitty back up QBs like Scott Tolizen and Josh Freeman. That being said to match 7 wins this season seems like a impossible feat.

I don't recall your posts about how lucky we were last season beating a bunch of lousy rookie qb's including 2 in our own division.

FYI, Tolzien threw for 339 yards against us in that game.


In that 4 week span we went against Tolizen, Freeman, Barkley, and Pryor. How is that not lucky?
And wouldn't equate any of those guys to Prescott or Wentz.

Lol 339 yards but you fail to mention his 3 INTs he threw.
I still watch every game. I pay for the ticket.  
Britt in VA : 10/12/2017 9:49 am : link
It's just not the full day event that it used to be.
RE: Here's what I don't get with all the bitching and moaning right now  
micky : 10/12/2017 9:52 am : link
In comment 13645201 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
The past 3 games were all winnable and we came very close to winning them. None of our games have been complete blowouts. We could have easily won the Eagles or Tampa games if those miracle field goals don't happen or if our ENTIRE WR corps doesn't fall apart.

I chaulk the first 2 losses, to the offense not playing together during the preseason, barely at all. Marshall barely played, OBJ didn't play after he got hurt. So Manning was out there throwing to the players we just called up to the Practice squad.

Now going back to the 2013 team's losing streak, Coughlin's teams were not competitive at all in 3 of those games. They were completely blown out.


and this is why Mara will stay the course and make no "knee-jerk" reactions
I could barely make it through the Chargers-Giants game  
Route 9 : 10/12/2017 9:52 am : link
I was there. One of the worst played games I've ever seen live. Up there with Minnesota at New York Giants, MNF 2013.
The Big difference is...  
Chuckstar : 10/12/2017 9:54 am : link
That Coughlin's 2013 team had a Leadership counsel. Guys like Rolle, Tuck, and Diehl kept things together. I still remember Antrel coming on the radio every week with an accountable and positive attitude.

This team has NOTHING. Seriously, I think Mara should invite Rolle to speak to this squad.
Oh and just the fact that we are comparing  
Route 9 : 10/12/2017 9:59 am : link
Two disaster seasons with 0-5 and 0-6 starts, and it's only four years separating the two different teams, two different head coaches, just might say something about the management of the organization.
I'm finding silver linings....  
Britt in VA : 10/12/2017 10:00 am : link
My 6 year old son and I put on our Eli jerseys, and watch the game. I use it to teach him that even though the Giants lose, you're still loyal to them and try to learn about adversity. I always talk about how Eli always goes out there, despite getting hit, despite losing, and gives it his best.

I also teach him that if you don't know what it's like to lose, the wins aren't as sweet.
RE: Oh and just the fact that we are comparing  
Britt in VA : 10/12/2017 10:01 am : link
In comment 13645292 Route 9 said:
Quote:
Two disaster seasons with 0-5 and 0-6 starts, and it's only four years separating the two different teams, two different head coaches, just might say something about the management of the organization.


Agree, which is exactly what I said earlier in this thread:

Quote:
I believe it's becoming abundantly clear....
Britt in VA : 9:34 am : link : reply
that 2012-2015 was an organizational failure from top to bottom.

Coughlin played a part, but was ultimately scapegoated.
Beer Man: Coughlin was the most successful expansion coach?  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/12/2017 10:10 am : link
Not so sure about that one. There was a guy in Dallas. Had some Giant connections, I think.

Coughlin achieved success more quickly than Landry. That's a different metric, and probably reflects the League's unique nurturing of the Jaguars and Panthers when they entered the League. In fact, Dom Capers arguably built a contender even faster than Coughlin, though it also faded much faster.

Coughlin's eight-year tenure in Jacksonville ended with three straight losing seasons, and an overall record of 68-60. Quite respectable - especially for a start-up franchise. But not all that remarkable, when you consider the circumstances of Jacksonville's entry, and the initial performance of the other expansion entry in Carolina. In any case, if Coughlin had never landed another job after the Jags fired him, his head-coaching record would look a lot like Jim Fassel's.
One thing about Coughlin's end in Jax....  
Britt in VA : 10/12/2017 10:12 am : link
In hindsight, the owner later said that firing Coughlin was the worst mistake he ever made.
With our WR corps decimated  
Don in DC : 10/12/2017 10:17 am : link
this team isn't winning 3 games, let alone 7.

At this point, I think we should embrace the suckitude. This is our opportunity to draft Eli's successor while Eli still has a little bit left in the tank.
A few things are different.  
an_idol_mind : 10/12/2017 10:18 am : link
In 2013, the Giants were coming off a 9-7 season where they missed the playoffs.

In 2017, they're coming off an 11-5 season where the defense looked downright amazing a year earlier.

In 2013, the Giants were never too far behind during their losing streak. The Redskins were terrible, and neither the Cowboys nor the Eagles got two games above .500 until early December.

In 2017, the Eagles sit at 4-1 with a game in hand against the Giants.

Most importantly, in 2013, Coughlin had two Super Bowls under his belt and had not had a losing season since 2004. Players bought into his program and played hard for him in virtually any situation.

In 2017, McAdoo still has to prove himself and doesn't have the luxury of postseason success.
We're still talking about Coughlin....why, exactly?  
Greg from LI : 10/12/2017 10:38 am : link
.
RE: We're still talking about Coughlin....why, exactly?  
jcn56 : 10/12/2017 10:41 am : link
In comment 13645349 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


Because Coughlin had the respect of that 0-6 team and McAdoo doesn't. Pay attention Greg, will ya?
first of all, all winning those meaningless games in '13 did  
Greg from LI : 10/12/2017 11:06 am : link
was cost them draft positioning. Second of all, he's gone, he's not coming back, there's no point to talking endlessly about Tom Coughlin's bad teams and how they stack up against Ben McAdoo's bad teams.....no point other than bathing in nostalgia for a coach some people don't like to admit was terrible in his final seasons.
RE: We're still talking about Coughlin....why, exactly?  
LatHarv83 : 10/12/2017 11:16 am : link
In comment 13645349 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


This. I donít get it. Are we trying to say Coughlin is better than Mcadoo? No one would argue that. Are we going a step further and arguing on behalf of keeping Coughlin? Thatís where you lose me. It was time. Love him but he ran his course here. That we may have whiffed on his replacement doesnít change that . In addition, Coughlin isnít coaching anymore and never will. Heís over 70 years old. His new role in Jacksonville is better suited for him at this point in his life anyway
RE: When Coughlin was McAdoo's age, he was in his first year...  
TC : 10/12/2017 11:46 am : link
In comment 13645231 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
...coaching wide receivers for the Packers. He didn't even join Parcells until he was 42. 19 years after that, he would start building his real legacy, with the SB 42 run, the first of two amazing finishes that will remain his crowning achievements (and in all likelihood, Eli Manning's as well). By 2015, he looked played out and overmatched.

Comparisons between Coughlin and McAdoo are not interesting. They are pointless. The Giants may have picked the wrong guy to replace Coughlin, but that doesn't mean they were wrong to replace Coughlin.


Exactly!

McAdoo was retained and elevated for the sake of continuity in the mistaken hope/delusion that the Giants were a quality contender that just needed a few fresh ideas. That, and I suspect he was viewed as young and compliant.

RE: One thing about Coughlin's end in Jax....  
gmenatlarge : 10/12/2017 11:51 am : link
In comment 13645314 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In hindsight, the owner later said that firing Coughlin was the worst mistake he ever made.


Are you saying that Mara will soon be repeating that?...
RE: RE: One thing about Coughlin's end in Jax....  
Britt in VA : 10/12/2017 11:56 am : link
In comment 13645522 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
In comment 13645314 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In hindsight, the owner later said that firing Coughlin was the worst mistake he ever made.



Are you saying that Mara will soon be repeating that?...


Not quite the same, as Coughlin was many years older, and was still a young guy in Jax....

But I know I personally wonder "what if" they just kept things together one more year, and spent the $200 million on defense.

Think about last year's defense paired with 2015's offense, and Coughlin's ability to motivate players, prepare them, in the playoffs.

Mara may not think it was a big mistake, but he may wonder "what if". I know I do. Do you?
.  
Pascal4554 : 10/12/2017 12:16 pm : link
2017 team seems more talented on paper then 2013, in my opinion. From what I remember the 2013 team played hard but just wasn't very good. In a weird way I was proud of the 2013 team. They sucked, but they were still the Giants. I thought they battled hard and was impressed with Coughlin's leadership. Looks like this year is becoming entertaining for the wrong reasons.
RE: RE: RE: One thing about Coughlin's end in Jax....  
gmenatlarge : 10/12/2017 12:30 pm : link
In comment 13645531 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13645522 gmenatlarge said:


Quote:


In comment 13645314 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In hindsight, the owner later said that firing Coughlin was the worst mistake he ever made.



Are you saying that Mara will soon be repeating that?...



Not quite the same, as Coughlin was many years older, and was still a young guy in Jax....

But I know I personally wonder "what if" they just kept things together one more year, and spent the $200 million on defense.

Think about last year's defense paired with 2015's offense, and Coughlin's ability to motivate players, prepare them, in the playoffs.

Mara may not think it was a big mistake, but he may wonder "what if". I know I do. Do you?


I think that the game had passed Coughlin by, but what disturbs me about McAdoo is the total inability to adjust to what is happening in the game and MAYBE change your game plan somewhat, instead of just doing the same thing which isn't working!
RE: RE: RE: One thing about Coughlin's end in Jax....  
HomerJones45 : 10/12/2017 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13645531 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13645522 gmenatlarge said:


Quote:


In comment 13645314 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In hindsight, the owner later said that firing Coughlin was the worst mistake he ever made.



Are you saying that Mara will soon be repeating that?...



Not quite the same, as Coughlin was many years older, and was still a young guy in Jax....

But I know I personally wonder "what if" they just kept things together one more year, and spent the $200 million on defense.

Think about last year's defense paired with 2015's offense, and Coughlin's ability to motivate players, prepare them, in the playoffs.

Mara may not think it was a big mistake, but he may wonder "what if". I know I do. Do you?
Britt, enough. Coughlin has been gone almost two years, and is not coming back. We've got to deal with the here and now and what woulda, coulda, shoulda been.

And I say this thinking Tisch is a boob, Mara a weakling, that we'd be better with a chimpanzee in Chris Mara's place, Reese finally exposed and McAdoo totally over his head in the deep end of the pool.
That this could happen twice  
tikimvp : 10/12/2017 8:41 pm : link
in 4 years is almost as startling as our playoff runs/SB win over Pats happening twice in 4 years. Almost.
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