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Yankees vs Giants

Painless62 : 10/12/2017 9:53 am
The Yankees were somewhat similar several years ago to the current Giants. Overpaid aging players who were more concerned with themselves than the team. Now the Yankees are younger, more energetic and have a team not me first culture. Compare that to the Giants. When you are always talking about OBJ and his antics you are not a team first organization. In general, OBJ in his current form is not conducive to having a winning football team and is in fact a cancer. Don't be surprised if they start acting more like a team now that he is out. When Mara says he wants OBJ a Giant for life he shows how clueless he is about the make up of a winning team.
First of all, apples to oranges.  
NorwoodWideRight : 10/12/2017 9:55 am : link
Second of all, this is not an aging team. It is a mix of young players and vets. I think we skew younger, rather than older.
I don't know if I love this Yankee team more  
Route 9 : 10/12/2017 9:57 am : link
or the same, as much as I despise the trash can that is the 2017 New York Giants
Yes lets blame the one guy who  
chuckydee9 : 10/12/2017 10:02 am : link
works his ass off all summer.. if you followed his tweets you would've seen the videos.. who plays even when injured during a season where if he gets injured he would lose 10's of millions.. who in spite of a dislocated fingers gets his ass back on the field to help in whatever way he can.. Also are you smart enough to recognize the change in team competitiveness once he was back to 80% healthy in phila game vs how this team looked before that? And even though when he left the game last week we were up and had the ball in our hand.. every player and fan knew we would lose.. and guess what we lost.. team looked defeated as soon as he landed from that pass.. but lets blame the one guy who is immature but tries his ass off.. and lets not blame Eli Apple who was laughing out there when we were losing.. lets not blame the GM who can't fix the OL in 6 years.. lets not blame the coach who is now 0-5 looking at getting one of the top 3 picks in next years draft..
OBJ is not a cancer.  
section125 : 10/12/2017 10:04 am : link
He does stupid things, but he plays his ass off, works his ass off and has the best offseason work ethic on the team. The previous game he was making plays, crawling off the field and coming back to make more plays. He could have sat down and iced it up and nobody would have said jackshit. The guy kept getting up and doing his best to make plays. That is not a cancer.
Giants had the 9th youngest team in the league  
jcn56 : 10/12/2017 10:07 am : link
at the beginning of this season. With Eli at 36 and Marshall at 33.
Huh?  
Giantology : 10/12/2017 10:08 am : link
Quote:
Overpaid aging players who were more concerned with themselves than the team


Go ahead and list all the overpaid aging players on the team.
RE: Yes lets blame the one guy who  
joe48 : 10/12/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13645296 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
works his ass off all summer.. if you followed his tweets you would've seen the videos.. who plays even when injured during a season where if he gets injured he would lose 10's of millions.. who in spite of a dislocated fingers gets his ass back on the field to help in whatever way he can.. Also are you smart enough to recognize the change in team competitiveness once he was back to 80% healthy in phila game vs how this team looked before that? And even though when he left the game last week we were up and had the ball in our hand.. every player and fan knew we would lose.. and guess what we lost.. team looked defeated as soon as he landed from that pass.. but lets blame the one guy who is immature but tries his ass off.. and lets not blame Eli Apple who was laughing out there when we were losing.. lets not blame the GM who can't fix the OL in 6 years.. lets not blame the coach who is now 0-5 looking at getting one of the top 3 picks in next years draft..
Wake up and smell the roses. This a team game and for all OBJ’s great contributions he is a distraction and is not team orientated. At this point I am not sure any of that will change. This is the same player who told the media he does not care what people think about his celebration and it will continue. You still want to pay him $20M year. I may be older but I am wiser.
RE: RE: Yes lets blame the one guy who  
chuckydee9 : 10/12/2017 10:22 am : link
In comment 13645319 joe48 said:
Quote:
In comment 13645296 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


works his ass off all summer.. if you followed his tweets you would've seen the videos.. who plays even when injured during a season where if he gets injured he would lose 10's of millions.. who in spite of a dislocated fingers gets his ass back on the field to help in whatever way he can.. Also are you smart enough to recognize the change in team competitiveness once he was back to 80% healthy in phila game vs how this team looked before that? And even though when he left the game last week we were up and had the ball in our hand.. every player and fan knew we would lose.. and guess what we lost.. team looked defeated as soon as he landed from that pass.. but lets blame the one guy who is immature but tries his ass off.. and lets not blame Eli Apple who was laughing out there when we were losing.. lets not blame the GM who can't fix the OL in 6 years.. lets not blame the coach who is now 0-5 looking at getting one of the top 3 picks in next years draft..

Wake up and smell the roses. This a team game and for all OBJ’s great contributions he is a distraction and is not team orientated. At this point I am not sure any of that will change. This is the same player who told the media he does not care what people think about his celebration and it will continue. You still want to pay him $20M year. I may be older but I am wiser.


How were the distractions in cowboy game this year? How about Vikings game when he was suspended.. did we even look like an NFL team the two time he was not able to play?.. some people just don't appreciate talent.. they love being miserable..

His antics don't distract the team.. they only distract media and fans.. his team mates love him and everyone of them said he was the team MVP last year..
This is some serious quality  
Mad Mike : 10/12/2017 10:45 am : link
*
OBJ  
Thegratefulhead : 10/12/2017 10:48 am : link
Is not the reason we are losing. Some people seem to only be satisfied when talented, wealthy, young black men keep silent. Run fast boy, score a touchdown for us boy, be a superstar. Now just hand the ball to the ref and keep your fucking mouth shut or I am going to run to social media and scream bloody murder like a toddler that you should be traded or cut.
I get it, the Giants stink  
joeinpa : 10/12/2017 10:49 am : link
They re not fun to watch. But to say you despise the team, can t relate to that.

As a fan since 56, I ve seen great moments and some bad eras. This era right now is not even close to what older Giants fans witnessed.

In last 7 years Giants have won a Super Bowl, gone 9-7 and 11-5 in three of those seasons.

Check the era from 64 to 80. There were decades without 3 winning seasons, and times when it took 3 years to win 11 games.

Not saying those eras justify what s going on now, and to each their own. But We have a lot of front runners here, just saying.

Painless 62–You're wrong on many levels  
Eli2020 : 10/12/2017 11:00 am : link




1) The NYG are the 9th youngest team in the NFL. You can use this thing called Google to confirm.

2) OBJ is not the cancer. The play of Eli Apple, John Jerry, JPP and the linebackers are the cancer. Jerry Reese is a cancer.

This team, at minimum, need two linemen, one veteran receiver, and a stud linebacker in the draft, to be playoff bound. The hardest solve will be:

A) The linemen, as that is an epidemic scrounging NFL teams and their QBs (Example: Phillip Rivers, Andrew Luck)

B) The decision to draft "Chosen" Rosen/Sam Darnold

C) Will they keep Jerry Reese and/or stay committed to Coach McAdoo?

D) Their loyalty to Eli in 15 months (We are going to need to money to pay OBJ)

Those decisions will decide this Franchise's future. But please, stop being such a Debby Downer when comparing this team to the overpriced Yanks. It really is Apples to Oranges when you have a salary cap that's limitless.

And if you think there's also blame to be made on Coach McAdoo, it's not like Joe Girardi has been an sensational coach the past 10 years.

Do not despise  
Painless62 : 10/12/2017 11:05 am : link
First I don't despise the team, just the way it is constructed. I totally believe diva wide receivers are not the recipe for success for an offense or a team. More than any other sport football requires a team first attitude. I have no problems with celebrations as or anything like that as long as they are legal. As far as aging and overpaid, start with JPP. His body is ancient in terms of football years. Same as people. There can be 50 YO's in better shape than folks half their age and 50 YO's who have the body of an 80 YO. BTW, we have had 1 winning season with OBJ. That was as much to do with the defense as anything
OBJ  
Dodge : 10/12/2017 11:11 am : link
OBJ is the heart and soul of this team and he works hard and plays hard. He's everything you want in a teammate. Not only that, he comes to work despite others who have stayed home during training camp for a new contract.

Yes, he has issues doing dumb shit with the celebrations or on the sidelines. I love his passion for the game.

Cancer? You're an idiot.
Majority of the issues stem from the offensive line  
Eli2020 : 10/12/2017 11:16 am : link
and lack of RBs. I think we may have found a gem in Wayne Gallman, but we will see.

You have to keep OBJ. He is a once-in-a-lifetime player that can change a game with one stellar play. Defense (and luck) aside, OBJ single-handedly won several games for us last year. If you can compliment him with a run game and another receiver–who could be Marshall, although age says otherwise–you'll have a good offense.

I also think while Eli has his moments, he hasn't been the best QB, especially for this scheme. You really need Aaron Rodger of Russel Wilson. That's why they wanted Patrick Mahomes so bad in the draft.

And yes, you absolutely despise this team. I do too. But I do believe there is hope. They have most of the pieces.
Idiot?  
Painless62 : 10/12/2017 11:28 am : link
Doubt it. Generational talents don't drop as many easy catches as he does. Look at the teams that are winning. Most of them have a bunch of good receivers. You just can't afford to spend too much money on complimentary positions, of which wide receiver is 1 of them.There are many good receivers who can be drafted or signed for much less then he will demand who will give you great production.Shoot, look at the Redskins. Would our offense be that much worse if we had Pryor instead of OBJ? Personally I'm more interested in the Giants winning than having a player in the news all the time for the wrong reasons. Yes, I understand he is not thankfully doing anything criminal, but the other reasons he has been in the news have in general been weird and distracting. Again, not helpful in promoting a team first concept.
RE: Majority of the issues stem from the offensive line  
gmenatlarge : 10/12/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13645429 Eli2020 said:
Quote:
and lack of RBs. I think we may have found a gem in Wayne Gallman, but we will see.

You have to keep OBJ. He is a once-in-a-lifetime player that can change a game with one stellar play. Defense (and luck) aside, OBJ single-handedly won several games for us last year. If you can compliment him with a run game and another receiver–who could be Marshall, although age says otherwise–you'll have a good offense.

I also think while Eli has his moments, he hasn't been the best QB, especially for this scheme. You really need Aaron Rodger of Russel Wilson. That's why they wanted Patrick Mahomes so bad in the draft.

And yes, you absolutely despise this team. I do too. But I do believe there is hope. They have most of the pieces.


The problem with OBJ will be-can they afford to pay him? When you have as many needs as the giants do along with overpaid DE's you eventually will have to make a "business" decision.
RE: OBJ  
gmenatlarge : 10/12/2017 11:49 am : link
In comment 13645413 Dodge said:
Quote:
OBJ is the heart and soul of this team and he works hard and plays hard. He's everything you want in a teammate. Not only that, he comes to work despite others who have stayed home during training camp for a new contract.

Yes, he has issues doing dumb shit with the celebrations or on the sidelines. I love his passion for the game.

Cancer? You're an idiot.


Heart and soul? Questionable, especially after he says things like "I don't care if we kick from the 5 yard line" after an idiotic penalty!
Painless  
Jim in Tampa : 10/12/2017 12:31 pm : link
I'll let other posters address your statements about OBJ and the Giants and focus on your assessment of the Yankees.

You said that the Yankees had "Overpaid aging players who were more concerned with themselves than the team."

That is utter nonsense.

Sure they had aging superstars who were near the end of their big contracts and of course by that point they were overpaid...but who exactly were the selfish players who put themselves ahead of the team?

Was it Jeter, AROD, Tex, Beltran, CC?

Because ALL of those guys were team first guys.

You're wrong about the Yankees and the Giants.

You can't change the facts just to fit the premise of your thread.
How much to pay  
Painless62 : 10/12/2017 12:31 pm : link
Go look at what teams pay their players. Most teams have 4 highly paid players and then work their way down from there. We have almost 37% of next years cap in Eli,JPP, Vernon and Jenkins. Compare that to a consistent winner that builds through the draft like the Packers. They spread the money around far more evenly than we do. How can you afford to pay OBJ 15-20 million a year? Wouldn't you be better off signing 2 really good players at other positions and drafting a good young WR ? You could also sign a good veteran WR for 50-60% of what he will cost and add to the team elsewhere. It's all about resource management. The NFL is sort of like college in that most players are gone in 4 years. As has been previously pointed out, drafting is crucial because of this. Need to SOMETIMES get extra picks and certainly do a far better job of talent evaluation. Chickens have come home to roost.
RE: OBJ  
joe48 : 10/12/2017 12:44 pm : link
In comment 13645413 Dodge said:
Quote:
OBJ is the heart and soul of this team and he works hard and plays hard. He's everything you want in a teammate. Not only that, he comes to work despite others who have stayed home during training camp for a new contract.

Yes, he has issues doing dumb shit with the celebrations or on the sidelines. I love his passion for the game.

Cancer? You're an idiot.
OBJ is everything YOU want in a teammate. Tell that to Eli Manning.
Root for  
Painless62 : 10/12/2017 1:01 pm : link
We possibly would still be 0-5 with him. Our offense was unbalanced and dysfunctional WITH him. You can't be so reliant on one player except the starting QB. I'm a fan of the Giants, not any one particular player. It is fun to have favorites, but I'd rather the Giants win than have a player who is the " greatest ".
RE: Root for  
BigBlueinChicago : 10/12/2017 3:08 pm : link
In comment 13645656 Painless62 said:
Quote:
We possibly would still be 0-5 with him. Our offense was unbalanced and dysfunctional WITH him. You can't be so reliant on one player except the starting QB. I'm a fan of the Giants, not any one particular player. It is fun to have favorites, but I'd rather the Giants win than have a player who is the " greatest ".


That's the issue.

If he is the "heart and soul" of the offense and the offense ranges from "not very good" to "average at best" while he's here, what does that say?

Now, they are going to be even worse without him now, but what difference does that make?

It's not like they are going from top 10 offense to the bottom. They are only going from say 23rd or 25th offense to the bottom. His value is being overstated.

And folks want to pay out all that money for him? The logic makes no sense.

Whatever they do this offseason  
Eli2020 : 10/12/2017 3:17 pm : link
If you have any shot at Darnold or Chosen Rosen, you pick those guys. They are by far the most polished QBs to come out of the draft in the past 5 years.

If we take your "The NFL is now 4 years like College" assumption, you'd have to assume those extra picks will get you maybe 5-6 years of 3 quality players, and that's assuming they pan out.

These QBs, while might certainly be duds, are worth the gamble if you get a 10+ year franchise QB. They're is more upside to them than hoping you can develop three JAGs.

Think about it. This team is not far away from being great. They probably need a regime change and 5 new starters, all of which can be answered in the draft and free agency.

What we really should be debating is creating value from Eli. Good or bad, his time is coming nigh. Creating the cap space for the next Jerry Rice with Chosen Rosen on a low cap could very well make this team more competitive three years from now than holding Eli and letting OBJ walk.

Belichick gave party animal Gronk a massive contract while also trading for Brandin Cooks. Whether you believe it or not, to win close games, you need game changers. I known OBJ hasn't proven it in the playoffs, but you'd be nuts to say he hasn't done it time and again during the season.
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