Midwest Gay Club scene is to blame along with Becky.
Fuckin dipshit.
You'd think people would feel absolutely ashamed and embarrassed to actually insinuate that Beckham is to blame for DRC getting suspended. They guy is in having surgery and he's still getting lambasted by these brilliant ass clowns. Just tells you all you need to know about their intelligence
RE: RE: RE: Well this will go over well with the rest of the team
That has an 0-5 record and some sign the seams are beginning to unravel.
DRC has not caused any issues since the first day we signed him. He has moved to whatever spot they asked of him and done a good job he has been a good soldier up to this point. Meanwhile, we have guys doing all kinds of stupid shit costing us penalties and games but yet this is the guy you decide to make a stand with?
And this is why this all goes back to Beckham. He has almost single handedly torn the team apart with complete and utter lack of concern for the good of the team.
But he is just "passionate" and a "good kid" right?
Yep. Why hasn't everyone noticed this?
Stan & TLG - quite the all-star pair here.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Well this will go over well with the rest of the team
That has an 0-5 record and some sign the seams are beginning to unravel.
DRC has not caused any issues since the first day we signed him. He has moved to whatever spot they asked of him and done a good job he has been a good soldier up to this point. Meanwhile, we have guys doing all kinds of stupid shit costing us penalties and games but yet this is the guy you decide to make a stand with?
And this is why this all goes back to Beckham. He has almost single handedly torn the team apart with complete and utter lack of concern for the good of the team.
But he is just "passionate" and a "good kid" right?
football in general and the Giants in particular than right now. I went through the terrible 70s and this is the just the worst.
First there's all the protesting BS. Then the Giants can't score and when they do they have to act like a bunch of vulgar nitwits. Then the defense can't hold a 4th quarter lead. The coach can't answer a simple question during an interview. He always acts like he has a two-by-four up his ass. Now the DRC suspension.
Really, I'm getting to the point where I really don't care what happens next.
Maybe he's losing the team, maybe he isn't...but I don't see any rational way to even slightly take DRC's side here. What he did was unforgivable.
And this is my point when I say character matters. Maybe it isn't realistic, but I don't want the head coach to have to be a fucking babysitter because the roster is populated with immature idiots that lack the professionalism to properly function in a team setting.
The locker room, the meeting rooms, the practice facility, and the field are all places of work. Careers are made and broken there...people should act accordingly. Be a fucking professional so that the head coach can worry about more important things than soothing some idiot's ego.
I couldn't disagree more. Arguably the most important part of a head coach's job is to motivate his players and build esprit de corps. Napoleon said the equivalent about generalship. Position coaches teach technique. GM's assemble talent (or in our case, fail to do so). Most anyone can do Xs and Os. The head coach has to be a leader. To say that the players are all employees and therefore should do the right thing without being told is a truism but is also oblivious to critical importance of intangible psychological aspect of behavior. I don't see how one can follow sports and miss that.
has never once did what DRC has done the past few days, and some folks here want to get rid of him. But DRC walks out on the team and you're defending him/going after the coach? This place is a nightmare lately.
hard for beckham to argue with getting benched when they let him do whatever he wants without benching him
that it is strange that I'm defending DRC instead of Mac, but I have a gnawing feeling that DRC did what he did because he thinks the coach is a clown and was playing guys worse than him, who were making multiple mistakes, and when he said something, there was an altercation.
People can correctly argue that no matter what happens, a player should never leave his team and the field, but that might tell you just how bad things are with Mac in charge. DRC has never been a guy to really care about perception and he's been a malcontent at times - and yet, he's not going apeshit over this, he's pretty much calmly telling everyone that Mac is an idiot.
The players all seem to have eachother's backs here - but not the coach's.
Also, TLG has quickly become one of the most worthless posters here. Every single fucking comment is about Odell Beckham. Even things that have nothing to do with Odell.. he makes it about Odell.
I disagree with Terps on that topic and we've argued countless times about it - but I at least respect his takes and think we've generally been civil and had worthwhile back and forth's.
suspended indefinitely? Literally the dumbest coaching decision I've ever heard. Give him a punishment that fits the crime, let him serve it, and move on. This guy is a clown.
We don't even know what the real "crime" is. This looks bad, but I don't know whether it looks worse for DRC or for McAdoo.
It would be indicative of the current state of the NFL more than anything about the Giants. I think the real reason viewership has been dropping is that the games stink and the quality of play is atrocious, especially in September.
This is very true - while everyone talks anthem and CTE - the truth is the majority of NFL games on a week to week basis are unwatchable. Error prone, penalty filled contests where star players get hurt every week and most aren't close for more than a half. And when games are close, all too often it's a defense-free effort that comes down to a game of chance as to who has the ball last.
IMO, Giants aside, this is the problem that the NFL has to solve. I'm convinced that the last CBA did a lot more harm to the game than anyone realizes.
1. Coach works his ass off and has done so for (40?) years. Probably simply far out works all other coaches. Add in that he is a strong thinker, Thats the added value. Because of this, and his successs, he is able to do #2.
2. Directive to players, 'be teachable or GTFO.' Its known, before these kids even start.
3. Integrates these things obviously into all aspects of team managagement, practices, recruiting and what have you.
4. use schemes that work in reality, not in theory, in that sense, very humble, observant, not 'better than' reality.
Now, we had Coughlin, who had one vision of teams, vs reese who had a very different vision.
as fans we are centered on what happens on the field, vs, as owners, owners are centered on what happens in an organization. Very different.
Kraft obviously requires that Bill B win games. and very obviously would never try to pretend that he knows how to get there. Its basically Bills show, a show he earned. This allows for clarity of purpose in all operations and respect to flow up the chain.
Within all that, one can guess that Bill B actually has real two way conversations with his position coordinators. if he didnt respect them that much, he would not have hired them in the first place. Would anyone force Bill to work with a coach he didnt respect? Or GM? I dont think so.
at this point we bviously have a shortened 'book'. Either its outdated or simply not good. Or they refused to practice or implememnt parts of it due to pandering up the chain or other pretenses.
To get a new book, you need new and experienced, people.
so, you can critique DRC, fairly, but be aware also that respect towards true leaders is earned, not granted from above.
Gets criticized for losing the team. He suspends a guy who quits during a game and gets criticized for that. What would you all have said if he did nothing.
The certainty with which so many of you act as if you know exactly what s going on in that locker room, or that they have all quit on him, are enough to make me hope he shuts you all up, even though I have never warmed to the idea of him as Giants coach.
This is very true - while everyone talks anthem and CTE - the truth is the majority of NFL games on a week to week basis are unwatchable. Error prone, penalty filled contests where star players get hurt every week and most aren't close for more than a half.
I think you have to add to that the actions of the players. Every time they get a first down they celebrate like they've done something special. The "having fun" after a touchdown by grabbing your crotch.
Not only the number of penalties, but the penalties that rub out big plays because a lineman breathed too hard before the snap or a guy was only set for three-quarters of second. Do most of these nit-picking penalties really matter? Do they give the offense a big advantage? Blech.
I don't completely agree with their position, but their views are not that different than some of the beat writers covering the team right now (see Daily News). It's not that big of a stretch to say how the Giants handled Beckham could be having an impact in the locker room.
Quote:
Rodgers-Cromartie, per ESPN, is frustrated particularly by McAdoos double standard in enforcing new rules. The coachs reaction to Odell Beckham Jr.s dog-peeing TD celebration in Week 3, per ESPN, was to establish a policy of penalizing game-day distractions with playing time.
There are conflicting reports of what happened last Sunday: some versions say Rodgers-Cromartie argued with McAdoo on the sideline about playing time, others say he stormed off the field with the intent to leave the stadium mid-game and was confronted by a teammate.
Either way, Rodgers-Cromartie has to be wondering why Beckham never has been suspended by the Giants for any of his antics, both on game days and otherwise; why Ereck Flowers wasnt suspended last season for shoving a reporter; why Janoris Jenkins wasnt suspended on Sunday for walking off the field with 40 seconds left; and so on.
which is the head coach. He has never had control of this team and the players don't respect him. The Giants have been playing undisciplined, dumb football since he started.
^^^ Exactly. Sure, it was a "day off". However, it just shows you what the commitment level is. All of the work all year long. The workouts in the off season, the OTA's, training camp. All of the practices and hard work during every week of the regular season just to get to the playoffs and have a shot at a championship. Now, you are preparing for that playoff game. For most of the WRs on that boat, it was also their first playoff game. So, should we stay by the stadium and watch more film and pick up some tendencies by the GB defense? Maybe get a light workout in and go home by lunch? Hell no... lets go to Florida. Obviously, McAdoo did not get his message across to the players that week.
Talk about lazy. Blaming all of the current issues on a guy who just had season ending surgery a couple days ago is not only lazy but downright ridiculous. This guy isn't blaming the coach, he's blaming a completely unrelated player. So the coach has no idea what he's doing How is that the player's fault? It's absurd.
Talk about lazy. Blaming all of the current issues on a guy who just had season ending surgery a couple days ago is not only lazy but downright ridiculous. This guy isn't blaming the coach, he's blaming a completely unrelated player. So the coach has no idea what he's doing How is that the player's fault? It's absurd.
I think Beckham has become a lightening rod for a lot of different reasons. I'm not defending that position, but it is understandable to say that the Giants inconsistent treatment of Beckham may have led to an undermining of discipline on the team. It's the same argument people on BBI make about how the rules are enforced here. (aka inconsistent enforcement of the rules)
Again, I'm not arguing one way or the other. I don't have enough information to form a conclusion. But it's not a "crazy" argument.
what McAdoo is doing here is getting out in front of his DC; walking the point for him. Spagnuolo decides who starts on defense and where they play. But because Mrs Spags baked cookies for the OTA's , I guess he is the Teflon DC, except he can't suck enough . It's generally accepted that Coughln wanted Allen do be his last DC after Mara made him fire Fewell.
And Spagnuolo is a Mara fav so expect him to be around for quite awhile.
This has been an interesting week for McAdoo. So far so good, in my opinion . Fuck DRC. He's reverted to what the Trog fans used to call him during his ill-fated Dream Team stay in Philadelphia: "Doesn't Really Care." That's the DRC. Except for himself . He cares a lot about the guy in the mirror . Great role model for the young corners on this team .
Talk about lazy. Blaming all of the current issues on a guy who just had season ending surgery a couple days ago is not only lazy but downright ridiculous. This guy isn't blaming the coach, he's blaming a completely unrelated player. So the coach has no idea what he's doing How is that the player's fault? It's absurd.
I think Beckham has become a lightening rod for a lot of different reasons. I'm not defending that position, but it is understandable to say that the Giants inconsistent treatment of Beckham may have led to an undermining of discipline on the team. It's the same argument people on BBI make about how the rules are enforced here. (aka inconsistent enforcement of the rules)
Again, I'm not arguing one way or the other. I don't have enough information to form a conclusion. But it's not a "crazy" argument.
It's crazy in the sense that the FO and the Coach need to do a better job of policing the players if there is a real issue. Beckham has never committed a crime, been arrested, drove drunk, killed or hurt anyone, etc. His on the field antics are just that - antics. If the coaches can't handle a professional football player whose antics bother them - then maybe they shouldn't be coaching professional football.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Well this will go over well with the rest of the team
That has an 0-5 record and some sign the seams are beginning to unravel.
DRC has not caused any issues since the first day we signed him. He has moved to whatever spot they asked of him and done a good job he has been a good soldier up to this point. Meanwhile, we have guys doing all kinds of stupid shit costing us penalties and games but yet this is the guy you decide to make a stand with?
And this is why this all goes back to Beckham. He has almost single handedly torn the team apart with complete and utter lack of concern for the good of the team.
But he is just "passionate" and a "good kid" right?
Yep. Why hasn't everyone noticed this?
Stan & TLG - quite the all-star pair here.
The un-dynamic duo.
Yet my consistently unpopular opinions are proving to be prophetic aren't they?
Look. The BBI thinktank of circle-jerkers can keep repeating their talking points to one another to suit their narrative that because Beckham makes 1 handed catches he is the greatest thing to ever happen to the Giants. It's just not true.
He single handedly created this culture by acting like a petulant child on the field and costing us team success. The last player to do that was Shockey but he was smart enough to reel it in at some point when it got out of hand and not make it always about him. He was controlled by the team leaders.
When the team looks to it's bozo the clown superstar to set an example this is what you get.
So in hindsight, even if Beckham didn't get hurt, we were 0-4 with him this year, and 0-5 in total. Anyone else want to argue that while his value was sky high he shouldn't have been traded for 2 first round picks, a 2nd round pick and a good LB (my suggested haul)?
I'm able to take off my blue colored glasses and look at things objectively. Are you guys? Or do you just hope for the best and blame a HC when the team is 0-5 and professional football players have just quit?
Theres more going on here than we know. But the way Mac is handling it Speaks of strong arm tactics, you dont get respect or control that way. Mara deserves this for allowing a guy with NO previous head coaching experience to run the ship. This almost never works well. Mara is CEO right? Well what kind of business decision was this? We have our answer- a really crappy one! Hes the one who needs to look at the big picture here and clean up his mess. (The easiest way is can Reese go outside the organization for a new GM and allow that guy to do what is necessary)
that it is strange that I'm defending DRC instead of Mac, but I have a gnawing feeling that DRC did what he did because he thinks the coach is a clown and was playing guys worse than him, who were making multiple mistakes, and when he said something, there was an altercation.
People can correctly argue that no matter what happens, a player should never leave his team and the field, but that might tell you just how bad things are with Mac in charge. DRC has never been a guy to really care about perception and he's been a malcontent at times - and yet, he's not going apeshit over this, he's pretty much calmly telling everyone that Mac is an idiot.
But of course, it's Beckham's fucking fault.....
My take exactly...You do this to a player that has done nothing wrong and really did not warrant it for any game related stuff (So he and the coach had a tiff during a close game you all of the sudden decide to bench him over a disagreement?) In a way you can't blame DRC for feeling like he is a scapegoat (which seems to be a pervasive aspect to this team for the last few years) and be pissed off. Now he never should of walked of the field and then come back but I see why he is angry over the whole thing.
To me this reeks of a coach who has lost complete control of his team. When they lose this week you will see the wheels really come off. You really may see him fired mid-season
has never once did what DRC has done the past few days, and some folks here want to get rid of him. But DRC walks out on the team and you're defending him/going after the coach? This place is a nightmare lately.
You've heard me make the same argument that you are making.
That said, one does get the impression that Beckham runs a bit roughshod over the Giants brass. It happened a bit under Coughlin (even though they suspended him) and he still presses the boundaries even now.
I love his competitive streak, but there is a bit too much "look at me" to his game... and I think it does a disservice to him (he paints a target on his back for other players and officials) although he undoubtedly has benefited financially from it (see ad deals).
Some of this is generational with fans who grew up under a different league culture.
I don't know what is going on. As I said in a podcast this summer, I suspect much of what Beckham does is intentionally choreographed to bring attention to himself an inflate his market value. In other words, he's playing the media and they don't even know it.
But he obviously crosses the line at points - even under "hard ass" Coughlin. The infamous Panthers game was the starting point. He gets too much of the blame for the cruise fiasco. (I always said that was overblown... and why did Cruz escape criticism?). But the Giants have made moves to reign him in... hiring college WR coach is just one example.
I worry more about his injury than his attitude, but I do wish he would reign it in - for his own sake.
Is there a connection to him and DRC here? I don't think so but I don't think it is a ridiculous stretch for some to make that connection.
Which way do you want it? Supposedly, he was such a hard ass that his own wife said be more yourself. Much fun was poked at the 5 minutes early is late rule etc. Now, you say "he was just an old softee?"
Coughlin's image never entirely meshed with his actual approach. He was a disciplinarian in one sense: Be there early, feet on the floor, no crossed legs, etc. He wanted a certain kind of attention that implied a military style approach, with a chain of command that the foot soldiers don't question. He was a screamer and the guy who'd get red in the face and chew you out for a 5-yard penalty.
But I recall a veteran commenting after Coughlin's first camp that Fassell ran a more physically demanding training camp. But TC was more mentally demanding.
TC wanted everyone's complete, undivided attention. Ever think about how hard it is to give anyone or anything your complete, undivided attention for any length of time? Especially since cell phones and smart watches and other digital devices came in? It's pretty damn hard.
...in a professional setting? There seems to be some thought that the players should just do the right thing because they are professionals. In my experience, that doesn't hold true for humans at any level of employment, and from what I can see of the NFL, even less so when your employees are overwhelmingly young, well-off, and at least mildly spoiled most of their young lives.
It also appears that some think if McAdoo was just tougher on the the players, they'd all play better, but I don't see many examples of objectively hard-ass coaches having successful track records in the modern day NFL. As someone mentioned, the main thrust of a head coach's job is to prepare and motivate his players. There may be some players who don't need a coach to do that for them, those players are rare indeed.
This is my biggest concern about McAdoo. He hasn't evidenced any of the traits that would indicate that he knows how to motivate a group of young men. While we don't know specifically how he relates to the players in the locker room, we have seen him criticizing the teams's quarterback in public. We've seen him choose not to go to a player on his team who suffered a terrible injury and opt for looking at the play chart instead. And now we have seen him fail to address his team on a timely fashion about the suspension of DRC, letting them instead talk to the press about it before he has laid out his case to them.
These are all very bad things from a management standpoint.
Coughlin earned my support because he was clear in the fact that he was invested in his players, that he wanted to see them succeed at football as well as in life. Parcells too knew that to motivate his players, his players had to know that he was involved with them as human beings. That was reflected in his quote after the Super Bowl -- For the rest of your life, nobody can ever tell you that you couldn't do it. 'Cause you did it. Parcells and Coughlin and Belichick for that mater are seen as tough coaches, but they were good at building cohesive units from disparate elements, and I don't believe McAdoo can do that yet. I also think his insistence on calling the offense is a sign of that issue. When you get promoted to a new job in an organization, the worst thing you can do is try continue to do your old job. It takes away from your new position, and implies that you don't trust the people who work under you. Its comfortable, though. Probably more comfortable to call plays than to really be the head coach.
If McAdoo suspends him longer than a single game it would be an outrageous overreaction for a coach who has enjoyed the reputation of being a players' coach. You can make your point and set an example and then you welcome him back.
To my knowledge this is a first offense by a veteran leader of the defense. He may be upset at his role and probably acted impulsively and stupidly in response, but it should not warrant more than a $400,000 fine. If it is longer, they might as well trade him now because there is no way to come back from the humiliation of losing that much or more.
In my mind I have been thrust back to the worst of the 1970s, the Ray Handley era, and the 2007 Coughlin. The organization has become almost as embarrassing as the Knicks and without the same buffoon as an owner.
And I'm on it. My perception is that DRC was frustrated by more then 1 decision the coach made and he just lost it. He was extremely unprofessional, and losing is bad for everyone's morale and he deserves to be reprimanded.
McAdone has lost more then DRC. There are other players out there that are fed up. They will play to be professional but they are not playing for him.
The talent of the players they suit up for game day right now is really low.
What happened to this team , that they are this bad , this fast?
-Manning is done (they at least made 1 future move for if Webb pans out)
-OL is terrible (Still - terrible front office work)
-McAddo lost key players on the team (This is on him) - he didn't take his own share of the blame for 2 of the losses which he directly contributed to via poor devisions
This boat is taking on water.... Trade anyone you can for anything you can get for the next front office.
not blaming obj for this Drc situation, but it started with or tied to the leniency given by obj non discipline early on in his giants career.
the giants didn't set forth an example of not having that kind of behavior/actions by disciplining obj from the get go. they are actually got afraid to do so to obj. now which brings us to today. DRC and Jenkins thought they can act this way without any consequences considering how obj is treated..which DRC found out isn't so. There's no precedent set by the hc, owner thus now we are seeing and going to see as it gets worse here on out by others
you would understand that a lack of communication and inconsistencies, by the head man will lead to a bad culture; mix in losing, and you can get rebellion.
Arguing that there is no possible way that OBJ's antics and a lack of repercussions for those antics had a bearing on the DRC situation is just being myopic.
I root for OBJ as hard as the next fan, I want him to stay a Giant. But if there is indeed a bad culture in that locker room, if he is not part of the solution, he is part of the problem.
Are confusing OBJ's actions being blamed for the current problems with how the team has handled OBJ actions is the problem.
Sure OBJ definitely has caused issues detrimental to the team since his first season. But where the DRC issue comes into play is how he is being handled vs how the team has been handling OBJ, and yes it started with Coughlin
I said..earlier in the week..
FatMan in Charlotte : 2:21 pm : link : reply
that it is strange that I'm defending DRC instead of Mac, but I have a gnawing feeling that DRC did what he did because he thinks the coach is a clown and was playing guys worse than him, who were making multiple mistakes, and when he said something, there was an altercation.
People can correctly argue that no matter what happens, a player should never leave his team and the field, but that might tell you just how bad things are with Mac in charge. DRC has never been a guy to really care about perception and he's been a malcontent at times - and yet, he's not going apeshit over this, he's pretty much calmly telling everyone that Mac is an idiot.
But of course, it's Beckham's fucking fault.....
DRC has played his ass off two games ago he basically played LB with 11 tackles . He has been a good soldier now
I don't defend him leaving the field DRC does not come off
as the sharpest knife in the drawer but his defensive teammates understand what he brings to the table .
What bothers me is that as far as I know no one reached
out to him before he left and try to talk some sense into
him . At that point in time he was angry and frustrated just said fuck it and went to the locker room to blow off steam rather than embarrass himself further .
He made a bad decision and he knows it but we shall see how this plays out . My bet is things are gonna unravel in a
hurry in a game they are clearly over matched in .
Nothing a thorough house cleaning can't cure !
Myself I am not impressed with Mac and his post game comments are terrible and when he tossed Eli under the bus
that was the last straw for me . He handled the run game OK he would like to have some of his throws back ? Are you fucking kidding me !
Hey Mac your offense is offensive and never fit Eli's skill set . You don't have a possible HOF coach and a QB in Rodgers that can make plays that few who have ever played the game could .
The defense should let Denver score on every possession and Eli
should fumble or take a sack on every play. Have we ever seen a team win by 300 points?...They can't cut or suspend everyone ..right?
You do realize that NFL players are playing for their own careers every single week, right? Sure, the players can sabotage BMc, but to what end? They'll be sabotaging their own careers in the process. This isn't particularly complicated.
you would understand that a lack of communication and inconsistencies, by the head man will lead to a bad culture; mix in losing, and you can get rebellion.
Arguing that there is no possible way that OBJ's antics and a lack of repercussions for those antics had a bearing on the DRC situation is just being myopic.
I root for OBJ as hard as the next fan, I want him to stay a Giant. But if there is indeed a bad culture in that locker room, if he is not part of the solution, he is part of the problem.
Yeah... I have been in the locker room for years. Although I fully agree with what you say about the coach and is impact on the locker room, there is something else here too. IMO, the locker room is also managed by the leaders on the team. The coach is not always there and to some degree there is a policing of itself that happens by the leaders on the team. Veteran guys who are essentially assistant coaches and can say things to a player that maybe a coach can't. Without being in THIS locker room, it is my opinion (not fact based) that we simply do not have any guys who can/will take a player who is causing a disruption and make it stop.
Are confusing OBJ's actions being blamed for the current problems with how the team has handled OBJ actions is the problem.
Sure OBJ definitely has caused issues detrimental to the team since his first season. But where the DRC issue comes into play is how he is being handled vs how the team has been handling OBJ, and yes it started with Coughlin
Bunch of "no comments" from Janoris Jenkins on anything involving DRC.
Well, the alternatives are throwing the teammate under the bus or the coaches under the bus. "No comment" seems like a preferable choice.
Fuckin dipshit.
You'd think people would feel absolutely ashamed and embarrassed to actually insinuate that Beckham is to blame for DRC getting suspended. They guy is in having surgery and he's still getting lambasted by these brilliant ass clowns. Just tells you all you need to know about their intelligence
Quote:
In comment 13645496 montanagiant said:
Quote:
That has an 0-5 record and some sign the seams are beginning to unravel.
DRC has not caused any issues since the first day we signed him. He has moved to whatever spot they asked of him and done a good job he has been a good soldier up to this point. Meanwhile, we have guys doing all kinds of stupid shit costing us penalties and games but yet this is the guy you decide to make a stand with?
And this is why this all goes back to Beckham. He has almost single handedly torn the team apart with complete and utter lack of concern for the good of the team.
But he is just "passionate" and a "good kid" right?
Yep. Why hasn't everyone noticed this?
Stan & TLG - quite the all-star pair here.
Quote:
In comment 13645734 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13645496 montanagiant said:
Quote:
That has an 0-5 record and some sign the seams are beginning to unravel.
DRC has not caused any issues since the first day we signed him. He has moved to whatever spot they asked of him and done a good job he has been a good soldier up to this point. Meanwhile, we have guys doing all kinds of stupid shit costing us penalties and games but yet this is the guy you decide to make a stand with?
And this is why this all goes back to Beckham. He has almost single handedly torn the team apart with complete and utter lack of concern for the good of the team.
But he is just "passionate" and a "good kid" right?
Yep. Why hasn't everyone noticed this?
Stan & TLG - quite the all-star pair here.
The un-dynamic duo.
First there's all the protesting BS. Then the Giants can't score and when they do they have to act like a bunch of vulgar nitwits. Then the defense can't hold a 4th quarter lead. The coach can't answer a simple question during an interview. He always acts like he has a two-by-four up his ass. Now the DRC suspension.
Really, I'm getting to the point where I really don't care what happens next.
And this is my point when I say character matters. Maybe it isn't realistic, but I don't want the head coach to have to be a fucking babysitter because the roster is populated with immature idiots that lack the professionalism to properly function in a team setting.
The locker room, the meeting rooms, the practice facility, and the field are all places of work. Careers are made and broken there...people should act accordingly. Be a fucking professional so that the head coach can worry about more important things than soothing some idiot's ego.
I couldn't disagree more. Arguably the most important part of a head coach's job is to motivate his players and build esprit de corps. Napoleon said the equivalent about generalship. Position coaches teach technique. GM's assemble talent (or in our case, fail to do so). Most anyone can do Xs and Os. The head coach has to be a leader. To say that the players are all employees and therefore should do the right thing without being told is a truism but is also oblivious to critical importance of intangible psychological aspect of behavior. I don't see how one can follow sports and miss that.
If one of Napoleon's lieutenants walked out on him he'd suspend him indefinitely...from a tree.
hard for beckham to argue with getting benched when they let him do whatever he wants without benching him
People can correctly argue that no matter what happens, a player should never leave his team and the field, but that might tell you just how bad things are with Mac in charge. DRC has never been a guy to really care about perception and he's been a malcontent at times - and yet, he's not going apeshit over this, he's pretty much calmly telling everyone that Mac is an idiot.
But of course, it's Beckham's fucking fault.....
Exactamundo!
If one of Napoleon's lieutenants walked out on him he'd suspend him indefinitely...from a tree.
We won't find out what the other side of the story is, if we ever, until DRC shows up on another team.
Also, TLG has quickly become one of the most worthless posters here. Every single fucking comment is about Odell Beckham. Even things that have nothing to do with Odell.. he makes it about Odell.
I disagree with Terps on that topic and we've argued countless times about it - but I at least respect his takes and think we've generally been civil and had worthwhile back and forth's.
There's none of that to be had with this clown.
Quote:
you just never know in this bizarro world
It would be indicative of the current state of the NFL more than anything about the Giants. I think the real reason viewership has been dropping is that the games stink and the quality of play is atrocious, especially in September.
This is very true - while everyone talks anthem and CTE - the truth is the majority of NFL games on a week to week basis are unwatchable. Error prone, penalty filled contests where star players get hurt every week and most aren't close for more than a half. And when games are close, all too often it's a defense-free effort that comes down to a game of chance as to who has the ball last.
IMO, Giants aside, this is the problem that the NFL has to solve. I'm convinced that the last CBA did a lot more harm to the game than anyone realizes.
1. Coach works his ass off and has done so for (40?) years. Probably simply far out works all other coaches. Add in that he is a strong thinker, Thats the added value. Because of this, and his successs, he is able to do #2.
2. Directive to players, 'be teachable or GTFO.' Its known, before these kids even start.
3. Integrates these things obviously into all aspects of team managagement, practices, recruiting and what have you.
4. use schemes that work in reality, not in theory, in that sense, very humble, observant, not 'better than' reality.
Now, we had Coughlin, who had one vision of teams, vs reese who had a very different vision.
as fans we are centered on what happens on the field, vs, as owners, owners are centered on what happens in an organization. Very different.
Kraft obviously requires that Bill B win games. and very obviously would never try to pretend that he knows how to get there. Its basically Bills show, a show he earned. This allows for clarity of purpose in all operations and respect to flow up the chain.
Within all that, one can guess that Bill B actually has real two way conversations with his position coordinators. if he didnt respect them that much, he would not have hired them in the first place. Would anyone force Bill to work with a coach he didnt respect? Or GM? I dont think so.
at this point we bviously have a shortened 'book'. Either its outdated or simply not good. Or they refused to practice or implememnt parts of it due to pandering up the chain or other pretenses.
To get a new book, you need new and experienced, people.
so, you can critique DRC, fairly, but be aware also that respect towards true leaders is earned, not granted from above.
The certainty with which so many of you act as if you know exactly what s going on in that locker room, or that they have all quit on him, are enough to make me hope he shuts you all up, even though I have never warmed to the idea of him as Giants coach.
I wanted Marone or even Magini.
Gotcha - thanks Eric.
But I'm not wrong. :)
I think you have to add to that the actions of the players. Every time they get a first down they celebrate like they've done something special. The "having fun" after a touchdown by grabbing your crotch.
Not only the number of penalties, but the penalties that rub out big plays because a lineman breathed too hard before the snap or a guy was only set for three-quarters of second. Do most of these nit-picking penalties really matter? Do they give the offense a big advantage? Blech.
There are conflicting reports of what happened last Sunday: some versions say Rodgers-Cromartie argued with McAdoo on the sideline about playing time, others say he stormed off the field with the intent to leave the stadium mid-game and was confronted by a teammate.
Either way, Rodgers-Cromartie has to be wondering why Beckham never has been suspended by the Giants for any of his antics, both on game days and otherwise; why Ereck Flowers wasnt suspended last season for shoving a reporter; why Janoris Jenkins wasnt suspended on Sunday for walking off the field with 40 seconds left; and so on.
Regardless, your constant reliance on name-calling makes YOU look stupid. It's not persuasive. It's lazy. It you don't have the patience for some posters, ignore them.
Giants' Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie suspended indefinitely following meeting with Ben McAdoo - ( New Window )
^^^ Exactly. Sure, it was a "day off". However, it just shows you what the commitment level is. All of the work all year long. The workouts in the off season, the OTA's, training camp. All of the practices and hard work during every week of the regular season just to get to the playoffs and have a shot at a championship. Now, you are preparing for that playoff game. For most of the WRs on that boat, it was also their first playoff game. So, should we stay by the stadium and watch more film and pick up some tendencies by the GB defense? Maybe get a light workout in and go home by lunch? Hell no... lets go to Florida. Obviously, McAdoo did not get his message across to the players that week.
I think Beckham has become a lightening rod for a lot of different reasons. I'm not defending that position, but it is understandable to say that the Giants inconsistent treatment of Beckham may have led to an undermining of discipline on the team. It's the same argument people on BBI make about how the rules are enforced here. (aka inconsistent enforcement of the rules)
Again, I'm not arguing one way or the other. I don't have enough information to form a conclusion. But it's not a "crazy" argument.
And Spagnuolo is a Mara fav so expect him to be around for quite awhile.
This has been an interesting week for McAdoo. So far so good, in my opinion . Fuck DRC. He's reverted to what the Trog fans used to call him during his ill-fated Dream Team stay in Philadelphia: "Doesn't Really Care." That's the DRC. Except for himself . He cares a lot about the guy in the mirror . Great role model for the young corners on this team .
Quote:
Talk about lazy. Blaming all of the current issues on a guy who just had season ending surgery a couple days ago is not only lazy but downright ridiculous. This guy isn't blaming the coach, he's blaming a completely unrelated player. So the coach has no idea what he's doing How is that the player's fault? It's absurd.
I think Beckham has become a lightening rod for a lot of different reasons. I'm not defending that position, but it is understandable to say that the Giants inconsistent treatment of Beckham may have led to an undermining of discipline on the team. It's the same argument people on BBI make about how the rules are enforced here. (aka inconsistent enforcement of the rules)
Again, I'm not arguing one way or the other. I don't have enough information to form a conclusion. But it's not a "crazy" argument.
It's crazy in the sense that the FO and the Coach need to do a better job of policing the players if there is a real issue. Beckham has never committed a crime, been arrested, drove drunk, killed or hurt anyone, etc. His on the field antics are just that - antics. If the coaches can't handle a professional football player whose antics bother them - then maybe they shouldn't be coaching professional football.
Quote:
In comment 13645756 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 13645734 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13645496 montanagiant said:
Quote:
That has an 0-5 record and some sign the seams are beginning to unravel.
DRC has not caused any issues since the first day we signed him. He has moved to whatever spot they asked of him and done a good job he has been a good soldier up to this point. Meanwhile, we have guys doing all kinds of stupid shit costing us penalties and games but yet this is the guy you decide to make a stand with?
And this is why this all goes back to Beckham. He has almost single handedly torn the team apart with complete and utter lack of concern for the good of the team.
But he is just "passionate" and a "good kid" right?
Yep. Why hasn't everyone noticed this?
Stan & TLG - quite the all-star pair here.
The un-dynamic duo.
Yet my consistently unpopular opinions are proving to be prophetic aren't they?
Look. The BBI thinktank of circle-jerkers can keep repeating their talking points to one another to suit their narrative that because Beckham makes 1 handed catches he is the greatest thing to ever happen to the Giants. It's just not true.
He single handedly created this culture by acting like a petulant child on the field and costing us team success. The last player to do that was Shockey but he was smart enough to reel it in at some point when it got out of hand and not make it always about him. He was controlled by the team leaders.
When the team looks to it's bozo the clown superstar to set an example this is what you get.
So in hindsight, even if Beckham didn't get hurt, we were 0-4 with him this year, and 0-5 in total. Anyone else want to argue that while his value was sky high he shouldn't have been traded for 2 first round picks, a 2nd round pick and a good LB (my suggested haul)?
I'm able to take off my blue colored glasses and look at things objectively. Are you guys? Or do you just hope for the best and blame a HC when the team is 0-5 and professional football players have just quit?
People can correctly argue that no matter what happens, a player should never leave his team and the field, but that might tell you just how bad things are with Mac in charge. DRC has never been a guy to really care about perception and he's been a malcontent at times - and yet, he's not going apeshit over this, he's pretty much calmly telling everyone that Mac is an idiot.
But of course, it's Beckham's fucking fault.....
My take exactly...You do this to a player that has done nothing wrong and really did not warrant it for any game related stuff (So he and the coach had a tiff during a close game you all of the sudden decide to bench him over a disagreement?) In a way you can't blame DRC for feeling like he is a scapegoat (which seems to be a pervasive aspect to this team for the last few years) and be pissed off. Now he never should of walked of the field and then come back but I see why he is angry over the whole thing.
To me this reeks of a coach who has lost complete control of his team. When they lose this week you will see the wheels really come off. You really may see him fired mid-season
^This.
That said, one does get the impression that Beckham runs a bit roughshod over the Giants brass. It happened a bit under Coughlin (even though they suspended him) and he still presses the boundaries even now.
I love his competitive streak, but there is a bit too much "look at me" to his game... and I think it does a disservice to him (he paints a target on his back for other players and officials) although he undoubtedly has benefited financially from it (see ad deals).
Some of this is generational with fans who grew up under a different league culture.
But he obviously crosses the line at points - even under "hard ass" Coughlin. The infamous Panthers game was the starting point. He gets too much of the blame for the cruise fiasco. (I always said that was overblown... and why did Cruz escape criticism?). But the Giants have made moves to reign him in... hiring college WR coach is just one example.
I worry more about his injury than his attitude, but I do wish he would reign it in - for his own sake.
Is there a connection to him and DRC here? I don't think so but I don't think it is a ridiculous stretch for some to make that connection.
But I recall a veteran commenting after Coughlin's first camp that Fassell ran a more physically demanding training camp. But TC was more mentally demanding.
TC wanted everyone's complete, undivided attention. Ever think about how hard it is to give anyone or anything your complete, undivided attention for any length of time? Especially since cell phones and smart watches and other digital devices came in? It's pretty damn hard.
That would be my take as well.
As I said a couple of years ago, there have been some issues with DRC that Spags was not crazy about. I think we're seeing some of them now.
It also appears that some think if McAdoo was just tougher on the the players, they'd all play better, but I don't see many examples of objectively hard-ass coaches having successful track records in the modern day NFL. As someone mentioned, the main thrust of a head coach's job is to prepare and motivate his players. There may be some players who don't need a coach to do that for them, those players are rare indeed.
This is my biggest concern about McAdoo. He hasn't evidenced any of the traits that would indicate that he knows how to motivate a group of young men. While we don't know specifically how he relates to the players in the locker room, we have seen him criticizing the teams's quarterback in public. We've seen him choose not to go to a player on his team who suffered a terrible injury and opt for looking at the play chart instead. And now we have seen him fail to address his team on a timely fashion about the suspension of DRC, letting them instead talk to the press about it before he has laid out his case to them.
These are all very bad things from a management standpoint.
Coughlin earned my support because he was clear in the fact that he was invested in his players, that he wanted to see them succeed at football as well as in life. Parcells too knew that to motivate his players, his players had to know that he was involved with them as human beings. That was reflected in his quote after the Super Bowl -- For the rest of your life, nobody can ever tell you that you couldn't do it. 'Cause you did it. Parcells and Coughlin and Belichick for that mater are seen as tough coaches, but they were good at building cohesive units from disparate elements, and I don't believe McAdoo can do that yet. I also think his insistence on calling the offense is a sign of that issue. When you get promoted to a new job in an organization, the worst thing you can do is try continue to do your old job. It takes away from your new position, and implies that you don't trust the people who work under you. Its comfortable, though. Probably more comfortable to call plays than to really be the head coach.
To my knowledge this is a first offense by a veteran leader of the defense. He may be upset at his role and probably acted impulsively and stupidly in response, but it should not warrant more than a $400,000 fine. If it is longer, they might as well trade him now because there is no way to come back from the humiliation of losing that much or more.
In my mind I have been thrust back to the worst of the 1970s, the Ray Handley era, and the 2007 Coughlin. The organization has become almost as embarrassing as the Knicks and without the same buffoon as an owner.
McAdone has lost more then DRC. There are other players out there that are fed up. They will play to be professional but they are not playing for him.
The talent of the players they suit up for game day right now is really low.
What happened to this team , that they are this bad , this fast?
-Manning is done (they at least made 1 future move for if Webb pans out)
-OL is terrible (Still - terrible front office work)
-McAddo lost key players on the team (This is on him) - he didn't take his own share of the blame for 2 of the losses which he directly contributed to via poor devisions
This boat is taking on water.... Trade anyone you can for anything you can get for the next front office.
the giants didn't set forth an example of not having that kind of behavior/actions by disciplining obj from the get go. they are actually got afraid to do so to obj. now which brings us to today. DRC and Jenkins thought they can act this way without any consequences considering how obj is treated..which DRC found out isn't so. There's no precedent set by the hc, owner thus now we are seeing and going to see as it gets worse here on out by others
Arguing that there is no possible way that OBJ's antics and a lack of repercussions for those antics had a bearing on the DRC situation is just being myopic.
I root for OBJ as hard as the next fan, I want him to stay a Giant. But if there is indeed a bad culture in that locker room, if he is not part of the solution, he is part of the problem.
Sure OBJ definitely has caused issues detrimental to the team since his first season. But where the DRC issue comes into play is how he is being handled vs how the team has been handling OBJ, and yes it started with Coughlin
FatMan in Charlotte : 2:21 pm : link : reply
that it is strange that I'm defending DRC instead of Mac, but I have a gnawing feeling that DRC did what he did because he thinks the coach is a clown and was playing guys worse than him, who were making multiple mistakes, and when he said something, there was an altercation.
People can correctly argue that no matter what happens, a player should never leave his team and the field, but that might tell you just how bad things are with Mac in charge. DRC has never been a guy to really care about perception and he's been a malcontent at times - and yet, he's not going apeshit over this, he's pretty much calmly telling everyone that Mac is an idiot.
But of course, it's Beckham's fucking fault.....
DRC has played his ass off two games ago he basically played LB with 11 tackles . He has been a good soldier now
I don't defend him leaving the field DRC does not come off
as the sharpest knife in the drawer but his defensive teammates understand what he brings to the table .
What bothers me is that as far as I know no one reached
out to him before he left and try to talk some sense into
him . At that point in time he was angry and frustrated just said fuck it and went to the locker room to blow off steam rather than embarrass himself further .
He made a bad decision and he knows it but we shall see how this plays out . My bet is things are gonna unravel in a
hurry in a game they are clearly over matched in .
Nothing a thorough house cleaning can't cure !
Myself I am not impressed with Mac and his post game comments are terrible and when he tossed Eli under the bus
that was the last straw for me . He handled the run game OK he would like to have some of his throws back ? Are you fucking kidding me !
Hey Mac your offense is offensive and never fit Eli's skill set . You don't have a possible HOF coach and a QB in Rodgers that can make plays that few who have ever played the game could .
You do realize that NFL players are playing for their own careers every single week, right? Sure, the players can sabotage BMc, but to what end? They'll be sabotaging their own careers in the process. This isn't particularly complicated.
Arguing that there is no possible way that OBJ's antics and a lack of repercussions for those antics had a bearing on the DRC situation is just being myopic.
I root for OBJ as hard as the next fan, I want him to stay a Giant. But if there is indeed a bad culture in that locker room, if he is not part of the solution, he is part of the problem.
Yeah... I have been in the locker room for years. Although I fully agree with what you say about the coach and is impact on the locker room, there is something else here too. IMO, the locker room is also managed by the leaders on the team. The coach is not always there and to some degree there is a policing of itself that happens by the leaders on the team. Veteran guys who are essentially assistant coaches and can say things to a player that maybe a coach can't. Without being in THIS locker room, it is my opinion (not fact based) that we simply do not have any guys who can/will take a player who is causing a disruption and make it stop.
Sure OBJ definitely has caused issues detrimental to the team since his first season. But where the DRC issue comes into play is how he is being handled vs how the team has been handling OBJ, and yes it started with Coughlin
thank you!