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Recent 1st and Top of 2nd round OL Busts Since 2011

fansince71 : 10/12/2017 3:05 pm
Since 2011

See list...its not that easy to project...

Joeckel
Greg Robinson
Danny Watkins
Gabe Carimi
Sherrod
Ijalana
Jon Cooper
M. Watson
Fluker
Warmack
Stanley
Botonio
Sua'filo
Cyrus Kouandjio
Peat
Cam Erving
Humphries
L. Tomlinson
Fisher
D Smith
Draft a big guy from a big 10 school  
FatBoyLacy : 10/12/2017 3:09 pm : link
I feel like those big Tackles from the Big 10 pro style offenses usually turn into good tackles and are less likely to bust. Its the SEC tackles who consistently seem like they bust
whats your point OP?  
idiotsavant : 10/12/2017 3:25 pm : link
Lets think this through. There are a limited number of teams, and a limited number of starting OL players.

Some teams are -better than other teams- at OL.

Those teams have a better chance of winning.

--------------------
Teams with pocket passers tend to need better OL play.

Giants have never done shit without good OL play.

Are you drawing a false dichotomy between first round OL picks and other first round picks? That would obviate the ability to trade down.

Are you suggesting that 'its a crap shoot so why bother'? Excuse for not trying, or for not being insightful in OL.

Dont want players and coaches to make excuses? Dont make them at GM level.

Also, ones failure at something does not imply that such a thing is not possible; simply that you and some others have not done well at it.

Others have NOT failed - simply by dint of that they have better O lines than our team does.

FACT. some OLs are better than OTHER OLs. This is the game.

You dont need to demonstrate that a 'perfect' OL exists, simply that some teams have BETTER ones, and those teams tend to take over games, have rational O schematics, balance, and not suck, given rational coaching.
also  
idiotsavant : 10/12/2017 3:27 pm : link
define bust. a tackle that plays guard is not a bust if he is good at it. injury does not equal bust.
Whats your point?  
Brown Recluse : 10/12/2017 3:27 pm : link
How about just realizing that your entire OL was garbage last year and that its probably not a great idea to go with the same players again and get your old HoF QB killed?

How hard would it be to project that?
Stanley  
Pete in MD : 10/12/2017 3:36 pm : link
isn't a bust. He starts at LT for the Ravens and has been solid this year.
Ronnie stanley is not a bust  
superspynyg : 10/12/2017 3:38 pm : link
He was hurt last season. Ravens have a top 10 Oline without Yanda. Tackle is solid.
it may simply be that some people see highlights  
idiotsavant : 10/12/2017 3:41 pm : link
whereas OL play is relatively invisible.

They forget the 1,2,3,or 4 seconds after the ball goes out of the centers hand and before it goes where its going IS the game in that it must happen FOR...BEFORE...IN ORDER FOR those highlights to happen a moment later.
I mean, its been ten years or more of this  
idiotsavant : 10/12/2017 3:44 pm : link
and, ok, at times we were very lucky. (david diehl, hello)

But prior to this last draft we were YELLING it here, ''manning is on his back, or dead, the ball wont GET to Becks and your new vaunted stars ANYWAY.''
RE: Whats your point?  
Blue Moon : 10/12/2017 4:25 pm : link
In comment 13645894 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
How about just realizing that your entire OL was garbage last year and that its probably not a great idea to go with the same players again and get your old HoF QB killed?

How hard would it be to project that?


When your the GM without a clue and you work for a spineless boss why should you worry. You slept through two Super Bowl wins on another mans dime. Let's see how long I can play out this scheme? Been six seasons, carry on!
A lot of  
Beer Man : 10/12/2017 4:31 pm : link
Bama boys on that list.
RE: RE: Whats your point?  
an_idol_mind : 10/12/2017 4:33 pm : link
In comment 13645967 Blue Moon said:
Quote:
In comment 13645894 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


How about just realizing that your entire OL was garbage last year and that its probably not a great idea to go with the same players again and get your old HoF QB killed?

How hard would it be to project that?



When your the GM without a clue and you work for a spineless boss why should you worry. You slept through two Super Bowl wins on another mans dime. Let's see how long I can play out this scheme? Been six seasons, carry on!


Can we stop with the notion that Reese rode Accorsi's coattails through two Super Bowls?

In 2007, he had the guts to stick by his decision to keep Diehl at left tackle and hit on almost all his draft picks.

The 2011 team had many of his guys, including Nicks, JPP, Manningham, Ballard, Canty, Phillips, Rolle, and Weatherford.

You can acknowledge that he was a very good GM for his first few years while also noting that he has been very bad recently.
Who's list is this?  
David B. : 10/12/2017 5:05 pm : link
And why isn't Flowers on it? What constitutes "bust" here?
Right.  
FStubbs : 10/12/2017 5:06 pm : link
Reese needs to go but it's because of his record 2012+.
Like a lot of GM's  
santacruzom : 10/12/2017 5:20 pm : link
Reese takes risks. Good things have happened when his bets have panned out.

It just seems as though he doesn't mitigate risks very well.
Fisher was a bust at LT, then was moved to RT, then back to LT.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/12/2017 5:29 pm : link
Now he's solid.
What this illustrates, and what has been known for a long time now,  
mikeinbloomfield : 10/12/2017 5:35 pm : link
is that the draft is a crapshoot. The only way to win at the draft is to give yourself more chances to pick good players.

Smart teams get their hands on as many picks as they can.

Jerry Reese has never, not once, traded down.
Is it foolish to think  
mikeygiants : 10/12/2017 5:38 pm : link
that GMs of the past operated with more of a fan-based mindset? Im talking in terms of homegrown veteran players.
For those of you asking what's the point  
Giantology : 10/12/2017 6:12 pm : link
The point is that the masses SCREAMING for the Giants to draft OL with premium picks, some even suggesting we spend our first 5 (!!!) picks on o-lineman don't understand that it does not guarantee the player will be successful. The draft isn't just about picking positions to fill the roster, it's about identifying talent.
I haven't followed Joel Botonio closely,  
Ira : 10/12/2017 6:44 pm : link
but I thought he had a good rookie year.
Sorry  
Ira : 10/12/2017 6:46 pm : link
Joel Bitonio.
==========  
GiantFilthy : 10/12/2017 7:23 pm : link
Quote:
For those of you asking what's the point
Giantology : 6:12 pm : link : reply
The point is that the masses SCREAMING for the Giants to draft OL with premium picks, some even suggesting we spend our first 5 (!!!) picks on o-lineman don't understand that it does not guarantee the player will be successful. The draft isn't just about picking positions to fill the roster, it's about identifying talent.

I'm with ya. There are quite a few players on that list that at the time of their draft they were the "safest" pick as well.
RE: ==========  
BrettNYG10 : 10/12/2017 7:32 pm : link
In comment 13646168 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:


Quote:


For those of you asking what's the point
Giantology : 6:12 pm : link : reply
The point is that the masses SCREAMING for the Giants to draft OL with premium picks, some even suggesting we spend our first 5 (!!!) picks on o-lineman don't understand that it does not guarantee the player will be successful. The draft isn't just about picking positions to fill the roster, it's about identifying talent.


I'm with ya. There are quite a few players on that list that at the time of their draft they were the "safest" pick as well.


Source?
Not sure what the point of this is  
WillVAB : 10/13/2017 12:06 am : link
If you're saying we shouldn't draft OL in the first, then how do you improve the OL?

Free agency? Who are you buying? Keep in mind we don't have the money to spend 8-10 mil per (or more) for 3-4 new starters on the OL. Not to mention this FA class sucks.

Address it later in the draft? We've tried that. Multiple times. Look at all of the mid to late round OL picks over the last 10 years under Reese and how their careers went.
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