I guess my point wasn't that UNC is sleazier than others (though they may very well be). My point was that I cannot imagine getting all that enthused about a bunch of non-students playing "college" sports. If they aren't actually student/athletes what is the attraction?
That's not to say that nobody playing DI hoops/football isn't an actual student, but they surely are in the minority...especially at the factories like UNC.
I guess my point wasn't that UNC is sleazier than others (though they may very well be). My point was that I cannot imagine getting all that enthused about a bunch of non-students playing "college" sports. If they aren't actually student/athletes what is the attraction?
Isn't the attraction that they're playing a sport one finds enjoyable watching? And they're doing it it in the uniform of a place one feels some connection to? Wearing the uniform of my school, even if they're not really students, is at least as much of a connection as wearing the uniform of the city I live in. Sure, I'd like the school I root for to do things legitimately and have kids going to class and genuinely trying to be students, but ultimately, I just like watching them play basketball.
NC State freshman Braxton Beverlys request for immediate eligibility has been denied, school told ESPN. School will appeal decision.
8:32 AM - 13 Oct 2017
Beverly had enrolled at Ohio State and started summer school classes when Thad Motta was fired. OSU released him from his commitment, he moved on to NC State, yet despite the fact that his actual freshman year hadn't even started he's told that he's a transfer and has to sit out a year. Shit, I'd suit him up anyway - the NCAA has now admitted that they are a sham with no actual authority.
pretty much did is leave nobody responsible for fraud.
The NCAA didn't sanction them for an athletic violation, and they have not been sanctioned by an organized body from an academic standpoint. So basically, what is the downside of doing this all over the place?
Put it this way - the NCAA can suspend a player for having a GPA below 2.0 in legitimate classes, but has no power to do anything about a student getting a 4.0 in a class that doesn't exist? As long as Academics play a role in eligibility, it most certainly should be sanctionable by the NCAA.
Put a UNC player on a poster selling hot dogs for charity and he could get suspended. The double-standard here is laughable and any athlete that gets suspended for academic reasons should escalate the matter and point to the UNC case as a precedent.
RE: RE: How anybody can feel any sense of pride in some these sleazy programs
Because (right or wrong) none of this really matters. Those UNC kids won the national title. The games were played on the court, and unless someone is saying the refs were paid off, the games themselves were fair and square. Most people who follow these programs only care about the games, they don't care how the sausage gets made.
UNC alum might be a little different than the average fan, but again, does this really matter? We've seen Penn State people still defend their school, so the same thing will happen here. Are any alumni negatively affected by this scandal? Companies are still hiring people with UNC degrees, so it looks like no impact there. It's really just some bad press that'll blow over.
Lots of other ACC schools have their own issues too, Louisville, Miami and Syracuse have been in the news. Even my beloved ND got sanctioned because a tutor did homework for some players (even though ND found this out on their own and immediately suspended the players).
At the end of the day, does any of this really matter? Do we think that Duke, Kansas or Kentucky are really running "cleaner" programs than UNC? Maybe ND and UVA are recruiting "real" student athletes rather than NBA prep one and dones, and that's more fun to root for IMO, but it doesn't mean that there's anything fundamentally wrong with a kid playing ball for a year or two and going into the draft.
Wrong. If these "classes" helped these players maintain eligibility - which they undoubtedly did otherwise why the hell would they take them - then they most definitely didn't belong on the court or practicing with the team. Therefore, no championships should be without that asterisk. This isn't difficult to understand. Unless you're a tarheel fan I guess.
Sorry but taking fake classes should lead to something as an institution of higher learning. No penalty just means others will do the same down the road and they now have precedence with this ruling.
The NCAA has lost any credibility they had with this ruling. Shame on them and shame on the University of North Carolina
Should have been pulled once this all came out. Academic fraud since 1993? Institution of higher learning ass.
When they're defending themselves to the accreditation boards, then they call it an athletic scandal. When they talk to the NCAA, it's an academic scandal.
The finding was that everyone was allowed to cheat, not just the athletes, proving, of course, that unlike most major college programs, UNC does not show any favoritism to its athletes. I think that they should become the model as we continue to lower the ethical bar by which college athletic programs are judged.
Should have been pulled once this all came out. Academic fraud since 1993? Institution of higher learning ass.
Bingo. More than the NCAA probe,th is should have prompted a deeper I investigation from accrediting bodies. If they aren't accredited, there is no NCAA program either. This isn't an isolated incident of cheating, covering for a single student, etc. This is decades of creating and programming bogus classes that non-athletes also "benefitted" from. It should call into question UNC degrees for 40 years.
When they're defending themselves to the accreditation boards, then they call it an athletic scandal. When they talk to the NCAA, it's an academic scandal.
When UNC was up for possible academic sanctions, they claimed it was an athletic matter. When UNC came before the NCAA, they claimed it was an academic issue. And somehow, neither side acted as if they had jurisdiction.
Sadly, UNC didn't internally punish anyone but an adjunct professor and didn't self-impose penalties, which really should call into question the whole idea they are an institution of higher learning.
The cover-up and existence of the classes spanned a decade and a half and in the end - there were minor repurcussions for one person.
How can that not only be allowed to happen, but how can UNC in good conscious not do more?
Should have been pulled once this all came out. Academic fraud since 1993? Institution of higher learning ass.
Bingo. More than the NCAA probe,th is should have prompted a deeper I investigation from accrediting bodies. If they aren't accredited, there is no NCAA program either. This isn't an isolated incident of cheating, covering for a single student, etc. This is decades of creating and programming bogus classes that non-athletes also "benefitted" from. It should call into question UNC degrees for 40 years.
The Southern Association Conference, the accrediting body they go before put them on probation.
And, I have no problem with people being outraged, because it was outrageous. But that still doesn't change that this was an academic scandal and not an athletic scandal. It was true that ACADEMIC counselors who do not report to the Atheltic Department and not overseen by them told athletes about these courses, but they also told other students.
The finding was that everyone was allowed to cheat, not just the athletes, proving, of course, that unlike most major college programs, UNC does not show any favoritism to its athletes. I think that they should become the model as we continue to lower the ethical bar by which college athletic programs are judged.
Pretend you were Roy Williams and you have had your named dragged through the mud for 3+ years by these virtue signalers in the press who fall all over themselves kissing the asses of that rat coach K, calipari, and others, when there was not a shred of evidence Roy knew; in fact, there was evidence that when Roy got suspicious he tried to stop it.
Should have been pulled once this all came out. Academic fraud since 1993? Institution of higher learning ass.
Bingo. More than the NCAA probe,th is should have prompted a deeper I investigation from accrediting bodies. If they aren't accredited, there is no NCAA program either. This isn't an isolated incident of cheating, covering for a single student, etc. This is decades of creating and programming bogus classes that non-athletes also "benefitted" from. It should call into question UNC degrees for 40 years.
The Southern Association Conference, the accrediting body they go before put them on probation.
And, I have no problem with people being outraged, because it was outrageous. But that still doesn't change that this was an academic scandal and not an athletic scandal. It was true that ACADEMIC counselors who do not report to the Atheltic Department and not overseen by them told athletes about these courses, but they also told other students.
I feel like you don't even believe yourself what you are saying. Simple question, who do you think these bogus classes were developed for? Regular students or athletes?
I guess schools can cheat anyway they want now, as long as they include regular students in the cheating. All inclusive baby! Now, a school can give athletes bogus grades as long as they give Billy Smith in the engineering program a boost to his grades! Everyone's happy!
RE: RE: RE: I've always been a UNC fan, but this is bullshit.
than no punishment at all, putting them on probation was the next level of punishment:
Quote:
The Southern Association Conference, the accrediting body they go before put them on probation
All the probation means for them from an academic standpoint is if they have another violation in 24 months, then they can be sanctioned (but it still isn't mandatory then).
So exactly what punishment did the probation give them? Did it limit who they can enroll? Did it punish any administrators? Did it knock them down a level in the way they are academically rated?
To help you out, the answer is no to all of those.
But the continued use of the term virtue signalers is amusing to say the least.
on this issue who, at the same time worship K (Dookie V and the Yahoo sports Department, Calipari (andy Katz and Jeff Goodman), Sean Miller, I could go on and on
virtue signaling
noun
the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.
about what basically amounted to hypocrisy. College athletics is a cesspool, and people who are truly worried about education have every right to be outraged about this scandal at UNC. But, these columnists who couldnt push each other out of the way to describe the shortcomings of UNC have no issue defending Calipari and Coach K whose students sometimes get a total of 12 credits their freshman year (they dont even bother finishing the spring semester). They were also pretty light on Pitino before the pay scandal, given that he had impregnated a woman, had his assistant marry her and had another assistant provide hookers. The hypocrisy is off the wall. So, I get back to Roy, I feel the media went over the top to pin this entire scandal on his doorstep, when in actuality the evidence was not there as to him. The entire Yahoo sports Department (Parish, Wetzel, Wilkes) made it their mission to drag his name through the mud. It just rubbed me the wrong way.
The hypocrisy is comical. Just not in the way you're pointing out. All of the schools you mentioned are the "blue bloods", the protected angels of the NCAA. UNC, Kentucky, Duke. That is the issue here for many.
The NCAA sure didn't mind throwing the gauntlet down on programs such as Syracuse and UCONN though, did they? THAT is the hypocrisy of it all.
The hypocrisy is comical. Just not in the way you're pointing out. All of the schools you mentioned are the "blue bloods", the protected angels of the NCAA. UNC, Kentucky, Duke. That is the issue here for many.
The NCAA sure didn't mind throwing the gauntlet down on programs such as Syracuse and UCONN though, did they? THAT is the hypocrisy of it all.
That is fine, but to say UNC has been protected during the scandal because of the end result is simply misleading. The bottom line is the NCAA did not have a case and they knew it, but because they felt the need to punish UNC and hope they would settle if pressured and harassed, they dragged this out and kept amending the NOA (especially from NOA2 where they basically acknowledged that they had nothing to NOA3 when they looked like they were going to hammer them). The NCAA had no case, they have known it for some time, that is why UNC got off, not because they are protected.
Ok, now you're just being willfully obtuse. Congratulations on cheering for a scumbag program that the entire world knows cheated and got away with it.
at the differences between SU being under investigation for several years and UNC.
SU self imposed sanctions, the NCAA only had minimal violations and not only gave them a postseason ban and took away scholarships, they stripped Boeheim of something like 100 wins. This was on top of what SU already imposed.
Meanwhile, a UNC scandal drags on for several years, the school not only doesn't impose self-penalties, they hire a legal team to debunk the accusations and lo and behold, they lose nothing. Nada.
it's pretty clear they didn't have a case. The NCAA admitted as much yesterday.
UNC isn't innocent here, but the NCAA knew they had no chance of winning in court. The idea that they didn't punish them because they make the NCAA money is bullshit. They didn't punish them because they knew they would lose in court and cost themselves a lot of money in the process.
I truly believe the NCAA really wanted to penalize UNC (and perhaps rightfully so) but they knew they couldn't actually do it because they would get destroyed in court so they dragged it out as long as they could and punished them that way. Not the same as actually penalizing them with scholarships and bowl/tournament ban, but really the only option they had when they knew according to their own bylaws they couldn't do anything legally.
at the differences between SU being under investigation for several years and UNC.
SU self imposed sanctions, the NCAA only had minimal violations and not only gave them a postseason ban and took away scholarships, they stripped Boeheim of something like 100 wins. This was on top of what SU already imposed.
Meanwhile, a UNC scandal drags on for several years, the school not only doesn't impose self-penalties, they hire a legal team to debunk the accusations and lo and behold, they lose nothing. Nada.
Once UNC stopped playing nice with the NCAA, it was over for the NCAA. Lawyers went to work and they were prepared to fight this in court for years. Self imposing penalties is basically admitting guilt.
I think you will see more schools in the future lawyer up and not play nice. They'll be far better off doing so.
I'm not going to get into any type of debate on whether or not what UNC did was wrong, it clearly was, but from the beginning i think it was pretty clear that they NCAA did not have the authority to do anything about it
should be ones that rise above perceptions. They should admit guilt when it is there as honor courts used to preside over.
They shouldn't have to play the game of lawyering up to mitigate punishment, and that's where we've gotten to in this world.
UNC had classes for nearly 2 decades that existed solely for keeping athletes eligible. It is a travesty from an athletic standpoint and an academic standpoint, and neither side got justice.
should be ones that rise above perceptions. They should admit guilt when it is there as honor courts used to preside over.
They shouldn't have to play the game of lawyering up to mitigate punishment, and that's where we've gotten to in this world.
UNC had classes for nearly 2 decades that existed solely for keeping athletes eligible. It is a travesty from an athletic standpoint and an academic standpoint, and neither side got justice.
There was an excellent opinion piece in the Charlotte paper today Student Athlete is Officially Dead - ( New Window )
The thing that was brought up here that I don't get is even if the NCAA doesn't have the balls to do anything, why isn't the academic indiscretion being addressed by a governing body, like the accrediting body?
Even at that, the NCAA has now set a terrible precedent. It is weak to claim this is an academic issue and not an athletic one. But, given that, the next player from any program that gets deemed academically ineligible should appeal and the program (if a big one) should fight it. That is an academic issue, not an athletic one...right?
What are the legal grounds to fight a reasonable sanction for this? The NCAA is the governing body for college athletics. Part of that is eligibility. This is a scandal more than 20 years in the making for which the sole intent was to make otherwise ineligible athletes eligible. How is that not sanctionable? I understand it may be a legal fight they don't want to spend resources on, but I fail to see how they don't have a case. IF they don't have a case here, then don't have a case any time academics are involved to determine eligibility in my opinion.
This is pure BS and if it was a smaller program, they 100% would have acted with sanctions.
was "exonerated" and we're still arguing on it pisses me off.
They weren't exonerated from shit. If anything, they got off on a legal technicality that was completely taken advantage of from the very beginning and offered an easy out. If you're willing to spend over $20 Million to defend yourselves, you're willing to do the up-front homework required to study the NCAA guidelines for impermissible benefits.
Unless you're a UNC fan. In that case, everything is fine and how DARE anyone question our institution!
was fighting a legal team that UNC paid $20M to. That legal team used NCAA rules to posture that this was a academic issue that impacted everyone, not just student athletes.
Jay Bilas, a lawyer, said by the letter of the law the NCAA had no jurisdiction.
Others have opined that since the NCAA sanctions players for academic deficiency and the classes clearly gave an advantage to keeping players eligible, that should've closed a loophole.
But a team of lawyers hauling in $20M have an arsenal to fight that.
What that tells me is that UNC is spineless when it comes to integrity.
when UNC had to answer for academic issues, their team of lawyers argued that it was an athletic matter.
I'm not kidding.
I know. That is both hypocritical and ridiculous. And, as I've just said in a couple of posts, I just don't see how the NCAA has no case. Their job is not to deal with the accrediting or auditing of the course itself for academic purposes. However, when there is evidence that these are bogus classes attended almost entirely by athletes and athletes on the verge of ineligibility for that matter, this is 100% their jurisdiction.
The fact that regularly matriculated students also attended doesn't exonerate UNC. It only exacerbates the matter and should draw the attention of academic bodies that accredit the university and perhaps the Federal government if federal funds have been received. Plus, this is a state school which means state tax dollars are going to a shady program.
The logic that not only athletes benefited means it's purely academic is ridiculous and BS. Even if 1 athlete benefited, it would still be a violation if it was a BS class, he never attended, etc. This is just a violation, or rather 20+ years of multiple violations.
was fighting a legal team that UNC paid $20M to. That legal team used NCAA rules to posture that this was a academic issue that impacted everyone, not just student athletes.
Jay Bilas, a lawyer, said by the letter of the law the NCAA had no jurisdiction.
Others have opined that since the NCAA sanctions players for academic deficiency and the classes clearly gave an advantage to keeping players eligible, that should've closed a loophole.
But a team of lawyers hauling in $20M have an arsenal to fight that.
What that tells me is that UNC is spineless when it comes to integrity.
F Jay Bilas. I say that is BS. The NCAA clearly does have a case as long as even 1 athlete benefited from a bogus class, grade, etc. That is a violation. This takes that to an exponential level. The difference here is UNC lawyered up with a very expensive team, meaning they were willing to fight this for a very long time. Legally, I think the NCAA case would be sound...or rather the UNC case unsound.
RE: The fact that this thread still states that UNC
was "exonerated" and we're still arguing on it pisses me off.
They weren't exonerated from shit. If anything, they got off on a legal technicality that was completely taken advantage of from the very beginning and offered an easy out. If you're willing to spend over $20 Million to defend yourselves, you're willing to do the up-front homework required to study the NCAA guidelines for impermissible benefits.
Unless you're a UNC fan. In that case, everything is fine and how DARE anyone question our institution!
Trash.
I would say they didn't get off on a legal technicality. They got off on the NCAA being spineless and not wanting to spend the resources to fight this in court. That is BS. Why is there not more public outcry? Where is the UNC governor, when tax dollars are spent for this university?
at the differences between SU being under investigation for several years and UNC.
SU self imposed sanctions, the NCAA only had minimal violations and not only gave them a postseason ban and took away scholarships, they stripped Boeheim of something like 100 wins. This was on top of what SU already imposed.
Meanwhile, a UNC scandal drags on for several years, the school not only doesn't impose self-penalties, they hire a legal team to debunk the accusations and lo and behold, they lose nothing. Nada.
Once UNC stopped playing nice with the NCAA, it was over for the NCAA. Lawyers went to work and they were prepared to fight this in court for years. Self imposing penalties is basically admitting guilt.
I think you will see more schools in the future lawyer up and not play nice. They'll be far better off doing so.
I'm not going to get into any type of debate on whether or not what UNC did was wrong, it clearly was, but from the beginning i think it was pretty clear that they NCAA did not have the authority to do anything about it
If this were Duke you would be going ballistic. And your logic is ridiculous.
That's not to say that nobody playing DI hoops/football isn't an actual student, but they surely are in the minority...especially at the factories like UNC.
Yuck.
Isn't the attraction that they're playing a sport one finds enjoyable watching? And they're doing it it in the uniform of a place one feels some connection to? Wearing the uniform of my school, even if they're not really students, is at least as much of a connection as wearing the uniform of the city I live in. Sure, I'd like the school I root for to do things legitimately and have kids going to class and genuinely trying to be students, but ultimately, I just like watching them play basketball.
Quote:
Jeff GoodmanVerified account
@GoodmanESPN
NC State freshman Braxton Beverlys request for immediate eligibility has been denied, school told ESPN. School will appeal decision.
8:32 AM - 13 Oct 2017
Beverly had enrolled at Ohio State and started summer school classes when Thad Motta was fired. OSU released him from his commitment, he moved on to NC State, yet despite the fact that his actual freshman year hadn't even started he's told that he's a transfer and has to sit out a year. Shit, I'd suit him up anyway - the NCAA has now admitted that they are a sham with no actual authority.
Just change his name to Daxton Deverly!
The NCAA didn't sanction them for an athletic violation, and they have not been sanctioned by an organized body from an academic standpoint. So basically, what is the downside of doing this all over the place?
Put it this way - the NCAA can suspend a player for having a GPA below 2.0 in legitimate classes, but has no power to do anything about a student getting a 4.0 in a class that doesn't exist? As long as Academics play a role in eligibility, it most certainly should be sanctionable by the NCAA.
Put a UNC player on a poster selling hot dogs for charity and he could get suspended. The double-standard here is laughable and any athlete that gets suspended for academic reasons should escalate the matter and point to the UNC case as a precedent.
Quote:
...is beyond me.
Because (right or wrong) none of this really matters. Those UNC kids won the national title. The games were played on the court, and unless someone is saying the refs were paid off, the games themselves were fair and square. Most people who follow these programs only care about the games, they don't care how the sausage gets made.
UNC alum might be a little different than the average fan, but again, does this really matter? We've seen Penn State people still defend their school, so the same thing will happen here. Are any alumni negatively affected by this scandal? Companies are still hiring people with UNC degrees, so it looks like no impact there. It's really just some bad press that'll blow over.
Lots of other ACC schools have their own issues too, Louisville, Miami and Syracuse have been in the news. Even my beloved ND got sanctioned because a tutor did homework for some players (even though ND found this out on their own and immediately suspended the players).
At the end of the day, does any of this really matter? Do we think that Duke, Kansas or Kentucky are really running "cleaner" programs than UNC? Maybe ND and UVA are recruiting "real" student athletes rather than NBA prep one and dones, and that's more fun to root for IMO, but it doesn't mean that there's anything fundamentally wrong with a kid playing ball for a year or two and going into the draft.
Wrong. If these "classes" helped these players maintain eligibility - which they undoubtedly did otherwise why the hell would they take them - then they most definitely didn't belong on the court or practicing with the team. Therefore, no championships should be without that asterisk. This isn't difficult to understand. Unless you're a tarheel fan I guess.
The NCAA has lost any credibility they had with this ruling. Shame on them and shame on the University of North Carolina
Way to bring your political agenda to a completely unrelated thread you clown
Quote:
How others can't see that amazes me, but people voted for Trump too, so there's that.
Way to bring your political agenda to a completely unrelated thread you clown
Blow me.
When they're defending themselves to the accreditation boards, then they call it an athletic scandal. When they talk to the NCAA, it's an academic scandal.
Everyone has their own reality. There is no thing as "rather than reality". All that means is someone doesn't agree with your reality.
Been that way since Adam and Eve, or is that Eve and Adam? After all, the bible was written by males, no?
Sure is a lot of opinion on this thread.
When UNC was up for possible academic sanctions, they claimed it was an athletic matter. When UNC came before the NCAA, they claimed it was an academic issue. And somehow, neither side acted as if they had jurisdiction.
Sadly, UNC didn't internally punish anyone but an adjunct professor and didn't self-impose penalties, which really should call into question the whole idea they are an institution of higher learning.
The cover-up and existence of the classes spanned a decade and a half and in the end - there were minor repurcussions for one person.
How can that not only be allowed to happen, but how can UNC in good conscious not do more?
Quote:
Should have been pulled once this all came out. Academic fraud since 1993? Institution of higher learning ass.
Bingo. More than the NCAA probe,th is should have prompted a deeper I investigation from accrediting bodies. If they aren't accredited, there is no NCAA program either. This isn't an isolated incident of cheating, covering for a single student, etc. This is decades of creating and programming bogus classes that non-athletes also "benefitted" from. It should call into question UNC degrees for 40 years.
The Southern Association Conference, the accrediting body they go before put them on probation.
And, I have no problem with people being outraged, because it was outrageous. But that still doesn't change that this was an academic scandal and not an athletic scandal. It was true that ACADEMIC counselors who do not report to the Atheltic Department and not overseen by them told athletes about these courses, but they also told other students.
Pretend you were Roy Williams and you have had your named dragged through the mud for 3+ years by these virtue signalers in the press who fall all over themselves kissing the asses of that rat coach K, calipari, and others, when there was not a shred of evidence Roy knew; in fact, there was evidence that when Roy got suspicious he tried to stop it.
What a fucking farce.
You UNC fans are absolutely delusional.
Quote:
In comment 13647244 B in ALB said:
Quote:
Should have been pulled once this all came out. Academic fraud since 1993? Institution of higher learning ass.
Bingo. More than the NCAA probe,th is should have prompted a deeper I investigation from accrediting bodies. If they aren't accredited, there is no NCAA program either. This isn't an isolated incident of cheating, covering for a single student, etc. This is decades of creating and programming bogus classes that non-athletes also "benefitted" from. It should call into question UNC degrees for 40 years.
The Southern Association Conference, the accrediting body they go before put them on probation.
And, I have no problem with people being outraged, because it was outrageous. But that still doesn't change that this was an academic scandal and not an athletic scandal. It was true that ACADEMIC counselors who do not report to the Atheltic Department and not overseen by them told athletes about these courses, but they also told other students.
I feel like you don't even believe yourself what you are saying. Simple question, who do you think these bogus classes were developed for? Regular students or athletes?
I guess schools can cheat anyway they want now, as long as they include regular students in the cheating. All inclusive baby! Now, a school can give athletes bogus grades as long as they give Billy Smith in the engineering program a boost to his grades! Everyone's happy!
Quote:
In comment 13647235 yatqb said:
Quote:
How others can't see that amazes me, but people voted for Trump too, so there's that.
Way to bring your political agenda to a completely unrelated thread you clown
Blow me.
Is that you, Harvey?
All the probation means for them from an academic standpoint is if they have another violation in 24 months, then they can be sanctioned (but it still isn't mandatory then).
So exactly what punishment did the probation give them? Did it limit who they can enroll? Did it punish any administrators? Did it knock them down a level in the way they are academically rated?
To help you out, the answer is no to all of those.
But the continued use of the term virtue signalers is amusing to say the least.
virtue signaling
noun
the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.
The NCAA sure didn't mind throwing the gauntlet down on programs such as Syracuse and UCONN though, did they? THAT is the hypocrisy of it all.
Commit academic fraud for decades? No punishment because that's bad PR for the NCAA and one of its cornerstone basketball schools.
Accept a bagel with cream cheese or make a YouTube video? You're fucked.
Makes total sense.
The NCAA sure didn't mind throwing the gauntlet down on programs such as Syracuse and UCONN though, did they? THAT is the hypocrisy of it all.
That is fine, but to say UNC has been protected during the scandal because of the end result is simply misleading. The bottom line is the NCAA did not have a case and they knew it, but because they felt the need to punish UNC and hope they would settle if pressured and harassed, they dragged this out and kept amending the NOA (especially from NOA2 where they basically acknowledged that they had nothing to NOA3 when they looked like they were going to hammer them). The NCAA had no case, they have known it for some time, that is why UNC got off, not because they are protected.
SU self imposed sanctions, the NCAA only had minimal violations and not only gave them a postseason ban and took away scholarships, they stripped Boeheim of something like 100 wins. This was on top of what SU already imposed.
Meanwhile, a UNC scandal drags on for several years, the school not only doesn't impose self-penalties, they hire a legal team to debunk the accusations and lo and behold, they lose nothing. Nada.
UNC isn't innocent here, but the NCAA knew they had no chance of winning in court. The idea that they didn't punish them because they make the NCAA money is bullshit. They didn't punish them because they knew they would lose in court and cost themselves a lot of money in the process.
I truly believe the NCAA really wanted to penalize UNC (and perhaps rightfully so) but they knew they couldn't actually do it because they would get destroyed in court so they dragged it out as long as they could and punished them that way. Not the same as actually penalizing them with scholarships and bowl/tournament ban, but really the only option they had when they knew according to their own bylaws they couldn't do anything legally.
SU self imposed sanctions, the NCAA only had minimal violations and not only gave them a postseason ban and took away scholarships, they stripped Boeheim of something like 100 wins. This was on top of what SU already imposed.
Meanwhile, a UNC scandal drags on for several years, the school not only doesn't impose self-penalties, they hire a legal team to debunk the accusations and lo and behold, they lose nothing. Nada.
Once UNC stopped playing nice with the NCAA, it was over for the NCAA. Lawyers went to work and they were prepared to fight this in court for years. Self imposing penalties is basically admitting guilt.
I think you will see more schools in the future lawyer up and not play nice. They'll be far better off doing so.
I'm not going to get into any type of debate on whether or not what UNC did was wrong, it clearly was, but from the beginning i think it was pretty clear that they NCAA did not have the authority to do anything about it
Holy asshairs.
They shouldn't have to play the game of lawyering up to mitigate punishment, and that's where we've gotten to in this world.
UNC had classes for nearly 2 decades that existed solely for keeping athletes eligible. It is a travesty from an athletic standpoint and an academic standpoint, and neither side got justice.
There was an excellent opinion piece in the Charlotte paper today
Student Athlete is Officially Dead - ( New Window )
Wonder why they had to defend themselves so vigorously. Weird.
They shouldn't have to play the game of lawyering up to mitigate punishment, and that's where we've gotten to in this world.
UNC had classes for nearly 2 decades that existed solely for keeping athletes eligible. It is a travesty from an athletic standpoint and an academic standpoint, and neither side got justice.
There was an excellent opinion piece in the Charlotte paper today Student Athlete is Officially Dead - ( New Window )
Even at that, the NCAA has now set a terrible precedent. It is weak to claim this is an academic issue and not an athletic one. But, given that, the next player from any program that gets deemed academically ineligible should appeal and the program (if a big one) should fight it. That is an academic issue, not an athletic one...right?
I'm not kidding.
This is pure BS and if it was a smaller program, they 100% would have acted with sanctions.
They weren't exonerated from shit. If anything, they got off on a legal technicality that was completely taken advantage of from the very beginning and offered an easy out. If you're willing to spend over $20 Million to defend yourselves, you're willing to do the up-front homework required to study the NCAA guidelines for impermissible benefits.
Unless you're a UNC fan. In that case, everything is fine and how DARE anyone question our institution!
Trash.
Jay Bilas, a lawyer, said by the letter of the law the NCAA had no jurisdiction.
Others have opined that since the NCAA sanctions players for academic deficiency and the classes clearly gave an advantage to keeping players eligible, that should've closed a loophole.
But a team of lawyers hauling in $20M have an arsenal to fight that.
What that tells me is that UNC is spineless when it comes to integrity.
I'm not kidding.
The fact that regularly matriculated students also attended doesn't exonerate UNC. It only exacerbates the matter and should draw the attention of academic bodies that accredit the university and perhaps the Federal government if federal funds have been received. Plus, this is a state school which means state tax dollars are going to a shady program.
The logic that not only athletes benefited means it's purely academic is ridiculous and BS. Even if 1 athlete benefited, it would still be a violation if it was a BS class, he never attended, etc. This is just a violation, or rather 20+ years of multiple violations.
Jay Bilas, a lawyer, said by the letter of the law the NCAA had no jurisdiction.
Others have opined that since the NCAA sanctions players for academic deficiency and the classes clearly gave an advantage to keeping players eligible, that should've closed a loophole.
But a team of lawyers hauling in $20M have an arsenal to fight that.
What that tells me is that UNC is spineless when it comes to integrity.
They weren't exonerated from shit. If anything, they got off on a legal technicality that was completely taken advantage of from the very beginning and offered an easy out. If you're willing to spend over $20 Million to defend yourselves, you're willing to do the up-front homework required to study the NCAA guidelines for impermissible benefits.
Unless you're a UNC fan. In that case, everything is fine and how DARE anyone question our institution!
Trash.
Quote:
at the differences between SU being under investigation for several years and UNC.
SU self imposed sanctions, the NCAA only had minimal violations and not only gave them a postseason ban and took away scholarships, they stripped Boeheim of something like 100 wins. This was on top of what SU already imposed.
Meanwhile, a UNC scandal drags on for several years, the school not only doesn't impose self-penalties, they hire a legal team to debunk the accusations and lo and behold, they lose nothing. Nada.
Once UNC stopped playing nice with the NCAA, it was over for the NCAA. Lawyers went to work and they were prepared to fight this in court for years. Self imposing penalties is basically admitting guilt.
I think you will see more schools in the future lawyer up and not play nice. They'll be far better off doing so.
I'm not going to get into any type of debate on whether or not what UNC did was wrong, it clearly was, but from the beginning i think it was pretty clear that they NCAA did not have the authority to do anything about it
If this were Duke you would be going ballistic. And your logic is ridiculous.