There was no doubt UNC athletes benefitted, but they conceded that they did not have the jurisdiction to measure the academic validity of classes available to the general school population. Think about the ramifications, now they will be investigating easy classes that athletes take at a higher rate. It was an academic scandal, (except womens hoops where they had an email of grade changing).
There was no doubt UNC athletes benefitted, but they conceded that they did not have the jurisdiction to measure the academic validity of classes available to the general school population. Think about the ramifications, now they will be investigating easy classes that athletes take at a higher rate. It was an academic scandal, (except womens hoops where they had an email of grade changing).
Not a sports scandal? All those bullshit Swahili grades were legit, yet multiple former players say they never actually went to class or learned anything. Hahahaha.
is going to say it was an academic scandal, then what jurisdiction do they have to suspend players with a poor GPA? Or players that don't go to class? Shouldn't they only then be able to act on infraction ONLY restricted to athletics?
These classes were created solely to inflate the GPA of athletes who need it to be eligible.
There was no doubt UNC athletes benefitted, but they conceded that they did not have the jurisdiction to measure the academic validity of classes available to the general school population. Think about the ramifications, now they will be investigating easy classes that athletes take at a higher rate. It was an academic scandal, (except womens hoops where they had an email of grade changing).
There's a difference between "easy" and "fictitious no-show".
The NCAA is a joke, but I'm sure Conde Rice will fix it.
scholarships, along with a Calhoun suspension, for low APR scores which occurred before the APR rule was instituted.
This is a disgusting, sad day for college basketball, and hopefully it signals the end for the criminal racket that is the NCAA and its P5 conferences.
I've never heard anything approaching a satisfactory explanation for why what Minnesota did was worthy of major sanctions yet what Carolina did was perfectly legitimate.
and set terms of eligibility. The NCAA said there was no evidence the courses were designed for student athletes as opposed to general pop. If there was credible evidence of a fake course to make athletes eligible, that would be sanctionable; here, however athletes may have taken the courses but they didnt have the evidence that it was implemented for it, which is what is needed for an impermissible benefit. In fact, while there were more student athletes as a % taking these courses, in total numbers there were more regular students enrolled.
is a legitimate gripe, but having a class that doesn't actually meet isn't?
Maybe I needed some of those classes in college to expand my intelligence, because I'm missing the point on this one.
We are not disagreeing. Grade fixing is to make the student eligible I.e, an improper benefit. The crux of this case was that there was no evidence these classes were designed to make athletes eligible, which would be tantamount to grade fixing
RE: The point is that the NCAA can only cover improper benefits
and set terms of eligibility. The NCAA said there was no evidence the courses were designed for student athletes as opposed to general pop. If there was credible evidence of a fake course to make athletes eligible, that would be sanctionable; here, however athletes may have taken the courses but they didnt have the evidence that it was implemented for it, which is what is needed for an impermissible benefit. In fact, while there were more student athletes as a % taking these courses, in total numbers there were more regular students enrolled.
"I'm shocked that gambling would be going on here."
so UNC created bogus classes for no reason in particular?
You have to be willfully obtuse to an absurd degree to buy that line of horseshit.
Maybe you are right, but the issue is was did the athletic department do to create that program. You still have to tie with evidence to an athletic person to be under NCAA jurisdiction.
now left it up to UNC to determine whether or not something shady happened is the icing on the cake. What a fucking clownshow. Wainstein and the independent investigation found that there were bogus classes for over 50 courses since 1993, yet nothing will be done about it. Amazing.
who is an attorney has thought this should be the outcome all allng.
Im not going to bother getting into what I think because none of us are changing our minds in this. The people with the pitchforks out hate UNC and the ones who like UNC feel this is the right outcome. There are exceptions to that but we all have a bias for the most part and arent going to change our opinions.
They may not have received sanctions, but dragging this out as long as they have absolutely did punish UNC. They have been negatively receuited against for years and havent receuited anywhere near as well as they would have without this cloud hanging ovet yhe program. I think the NCAA waited as long as they did because they knew ounishig them would never have stood up in court and they had a lot to lose if this went to court, and UNC was ready to fight any sanctions as long as they needed to. They werent going to take their punishment and move on, and as a result I believe they dragged it out to punish them that way. Anyone who doesnt think having a black cloud hanging over your program for years isnt a punishment is fooling themselves. There are a number of players who didnt go to UNC because of the investigation.
What's the point of creating bogus courses at a university? So that the entire student body can benefit from bogus grades? Or to artificially inflate the GPAs of student athletes who desperately need to maintain their grades to remain eligible.
What is the general student body remaining eligible for? Why weren't the classes in engineering or French or international relations? It's bullshit and you know it.
"Sure, athletes who would have otherwise been academically ineligible
You have to be willfully obtuse to an absurd degree to buy that line of horseshit.
Maybe you are right, but the issue is was did the athletic department do to create that program. You still have to tie with evidence to an athletic person to be under NCAA jurisdiction.
yeah, definitely misusing the word exonerated, lol.
There were no direct orders from the athletic department! You can't prove they were behind this scheme that provided enormous benefits for them and no one else!
They may not have received sanctions, but dragging this out as long as they have absolutely did punish UNC.
It's funny, of course this makes sense logically and we know big time prospects went to other schools, mainly Duke, because of the investigation -- but this might have been the best thing for Roy's program. For starters, they played in two national championship games the past 2 years anyway. Second, it probably kept them out of the scandal that's hitting so many schools now too (I know they arent an Adidas school but I'm pretty sure this scandal is just getting started)
there is no use in arguing about it. You arent changing your opinion and im not changing mine. We both have bias at play here.
The point is they knew this would not hold up in court and if they lose in court it could be a huge blow to the NCAA.
So they dragged it out as long as possible because they knew they couldnt do anything without a huge court battle that they would lose.
I'm not arguing the legal issues here - i'm simply saying that there was obvious academic fraud and the NCAA is completely impotent to do anything about it because of the general student pop having access to the bullshit courses. We can agree on that right? Surely, you don't think that UNC was innocent here.
are amateur, 'student' athletes - pretending as if basketball and football players arent the key widgets to billion dollar enterprises (at taxpayer assisted schools) - the better off everyone will be.
No they werent innocent - but neither is Duke which is perfectly content to lend out its "top 5" name to one-and-dones who dont even stick around for spring classes.
The whole system is broken, not just the span of the NCAA's jurisdictional authorities.
Duke also has players taking half their classes at NC Central
are amateur, 'student' athletes - pretending as if basketball and football players arent the key widgets to billion dollar enterprises (at taxpayer assisted schools) - the better off everyone will be.
No they werent innocent - but neither is Duke which is perfectly content to lend out its "top 5" name to one-and-dones who dont even stick around for spring classes.
The whole system is broken, not just the span of the NCAA's jurisdictional authorities.
This ^^^^^ It's time to disband the NCAA and pay the players. Burn the whole damn thing down!
What is this stupid fucking phrase ''virtue signalers''
NC State freshman Braxton Beverlys request for immediate eligibility has been denied, school told ESPN. School will appeal decision.
8:32 AM - 13 Oct 2017
Beverly had enrolled at Ohio State and started summer school classes when Thad Motta was fired. OSU released him from his commitment, he moved on to NC State, yet despite the fact that his actual freshman year hadn't even started he's told that he's a transfer and has to sit out a year. Shit, I'd suit him up anyway - the NCAA has now admitted that they are a sham with no actual authority.
Not uncommon for many students around RTP to take advantage of reciprocal agreements between the surrounding universities for specific courses at multiple schools/campuses in the area.
As an aside, my oldest son graduated from NC Central with a poly sci degree and received a better liberal arts education than what is offered at most colleges in the US. They have an excellent faculty with quite a few Rhodes scholars amongst them.
who is an attorney has thought this should be the outcome all allng.
Im not going to bother getting into what I think because none of us are changing our minds in this. The people with the pitchforks out hate UNC and the ones who like UNC feel this is the right outcome. There are exceptions to that but we all have a bias for the most part and arent going to change our opinions.
They may not have received sanctions, but dragging this out as long as they have absolutely did punish UNC. They have been negatively receuited against for years and havent receuited anywhere near as well as they would have without this cloud hanging ovet yhe program. I think the NCAA waited as long as they did because they knew ounishig them would never have stood up in court and they had a lot to lose if this went to court, and UNC was ready to fight any sanctions as long as they needed to. They werent going to take their punishment and move on, and as a result I believe they dragged it out to punish them that way. Anyone who doesnt think having a black cloud hanging over your program for years isnt a punishment is fooling themselves. There are a number of players who didnt go to UNC because of the investigation.
Lol poor NC, they've been punished because they cheated and the investigation took too long.
If this involved Kentucky and Cal, you'd be one holding a pitch fork.
To be fair, I'd be ecstatic with the decision if it was Kentucky though.
And Jim Boeheim still has wins that have been vacated while Joe Paterno's win have been restored.
The whole "academic scandal" rings hollow seeing the scandal was created specifically to aid athletes.
I do feel a little dirty, but fuck it. Go after Louisville!
WHICH WAS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE FAKE CLASSES IN THE FIRST PLACE!
You are delusional.
These classes were created solely to inflate the GPA of athletes who need it to be eligible.
There's a difference between "easy" and "fictitious no-show".
This is a disgusting, sad day for college basketball, and hopefully it signals the end for the criminal racket that is the NCAA and its P5 conferences.
Maybe I needed some of those classes in college to expand my intelligence, because I'm missing the point on this one.
Maybe I needed some of those classes in college to expand my intelligence, because I'm missing the point on this one.
We are not disagreeing. Grade fixing is to make the student eligible I.e, an improper benefit. The crux of this case was that there was no evidence these classes were designed to make athletes eligible, which would be tantamount to grade fixing
"I'm shocked that gambling would be going on here."
You have to be willfully obtuse to an absurd degree to buy that line of horseshit.
You have to be willfully obtuse to an absurd degree to buy that line of horseshit.
Maybe you are right, but the issue is was did the athletic department do to create that program. You still have to tie with evidence to an athletic person to be under NCAA jurisdiction.
Im not going to bother getting into what I think because none of us are changing our minds in this. The people with the pitchforks out hate UNC and the ones who like UNC feel this is the right outcome. There are exceptions to that but we all have a bias for the most part and arent going to change our opinions.
They may not have received sanctions, but dragging this out as long as they have absolutely did punish UNC. They have been negatively receuited against for years and havent receuited anywhere near as well as they would have without this cloud hanging ovet yhe program. I think the NCAA waited as long as they did because they knew ounishig them would never have stood up in court and they had a lot to lose if this went to court, and UNC was ready to fight any sanctions as long as they needed to. They werent going to take their punishment and move on, and as a result I believe they dragged it out to punish them that way. Anyone who doesnt think having a black cloud hanging over your program for years isnt a punishment is fooling themselves. There are a number of players who didnt go to UNC because of the investigation.
What is the general student body remaining eligible for? Why weren't the classes in engineering or French or international relations? It's bullshit and you know it.
What a fucking farce. Carolina is a disgrace from top to bottom. Can't wait to kick the living shit out of them in football this weekend.
Quote:
Just felt like it?
You have to be willfully obtuse to an absurd degree to buy that line of horseshit.
Maybe you are right, but the issue is was did the athletic department do to create that program. You still have to tie with evidence to an athletic person to be under NCAA jurisdiction.
yeah, definitely misusing the word exonerated, lol.
Meanwhile, a man who allowed child rape to occur under his watch was punished less than Jim Boeheim. What a fucking joke.
They may not have received sanctions, but dragging this out as long as they have absolutely did punish UNC.
It's funny, of course this makes sense logically and we know big time prospects went to other schools, mainly Duke, because of the investigation -- but this might have been the best thing for Roy's program. For starters, they played in two national championship games the past 2 years anyway. Second, it probably kept them out of the scandal that's hitting so many schools now too (I know they arent an Adidas school but I'm pretty sure this scandal is just getting started)
The point is they knew this would not hold up in court and if they lose in court it could be a huge blow to the NCAA.
So they dragged it out as long as possible because they knew they couldnt do anything without a huge court battle that they would lose.
The point is they knew this would not hold up in court and if they lose in court it could be a huge blow to the NCAA.
So they dragged it out as long as possible because they knew they couldnt do anything without a huge court battle that they would lose.
I'm not arguing the legal issues here - i'm simply saying that there was obvious academic fraud and the NCAA is completely impotent to do anything about it because of the general student pop having access to the bullshit courses. We can agree on that right? Surely, you don't think that UNC was innocent here.
No they werent innocent - but neither is Duke which is perfectly content to lend out its "top 5" name to one-and-dones who dont even stick around for spring classes.
The whole system is broken, not just the span of the NCAA's jurisdictional authorities.
No they werent innocent - but neither is Duke which is perfectly content to lend out its "top 5" name to one-and-dones who dont even stick around for spring classes.
The whole system is broken, not just the span of the NCAA's jurisdictional authorities.
This ^^^^^ It's time to disband the NCAA and pay the players. Burn the whole damn thing down!
Jeff GoodmanVerified account
@GoodmanESPN
NC State freshman Braxton Beverlys request for immediate eligibility has been denied, school told ESPN. School will appeal decision.
8:32 AM - 13 Oct 2017
Beverly had enrolled at Ohio State and started summer school classes when Thad Motta was fired. OSU released him from his commitment, he moved on to NC State, yet despite the fact that his actual freshman year hadn't even started he's told that he's a transfer and has to sit out a year. Shit, I'd suit him up anyway - the NCAA has now admitted that they are a sham with no actual authority.
As an aside, my oldest son graduated from NC Central with a poly sci degree and received a better liberal arts education than what is offered at most colleges in the US. They have an excellent faculty with quite a few Rhodes scholars amongst them.
Im not going to bother getting into what I think because none of us are changing our minds in this. The people with the pitchforks out hate UNC and the ones who like UNC feel this is the right outcome. There are exceptions to that but we all have a bias for the most part and arent going to change our opinions.
They may not have received sanctions, but dragging this out as long as they have absolutely did punish UNC. They have been negatively receuited against for years and havent receuited anywhere near as well as they would have without this cloud hanging ovet yhe program. I think the NCAA waited as long as they did because they knew ounishig them would never have stood up in court and they had a lot to lose if this went to court, and UNC was ready to fight any sanctions as long as they needed to. They werent going to take their punishment and move on, and as a result I believe they dragged it out to punish them that way. Anyone who doesnt think having a black cloud hanging over your program for years isnt a punishment is fooling themselves. There are a number of players who didnt go to UNC because of the investigation.
Lol poor NC, they've been punished because they cheated and the investigation took too long.
If this involved Kentucky and Cal, you'd be one holding a pitch fork.
To be fair, I'd be ecstatic with the decision if it was Kentucky though.