at the differences between SU being under investigation for several years and UNC.
SU self imposed sanctions, the NCAA only had minimal violations and not only gave them a postseason ban and took away scholarships, they stripped Boeheim of something like 100 wins. This was on top of what SU already imposed.
Meanwhile, a UNC scandal drags on for several years, the school not only doesn't impose self-penalties, they hire a legal team to debunk the accusations and lo and behold, they lose nothing. Nada.
Once UNC stopped playing nice with the NCAA, it was over for the NCAA. Lawyers went to work and they were prepared to fight this in court for years. Self imposing penalties is basically admitting guilt.
I think you will see more schools in the future lawyer up and not play nice. They'll be far better off doing so.
I'm not going to get into any type of debate on whether or not what UNC did was wrong, it clearly was, but from the beginning i think it was pretty clear that they NCAA did not have the authority to do anything about it
should be ones that rise above perceptions. They should admit guilt when it is there as honor courts used to preside over.
They shouldn't have to play the game of lawyering up to mitigate punishment, and that's where we've gotten to in this world.
UNC had classes for nearly 2 decades that existed solely for keeping athletes eligible. It is a travesty from an athletic standpoint and an academic standpoint, and neither side got justice.
should be ones that rise above perceptions. They should admit guilt when it is there as honor courts used to preside over.
They shouldn't have to play the game of lawyering up to mitigate punishment, and that's where we've gotten to in this world.
UNC had classes for nearly 2 decades that existed solely for keeping athletes eligible. It is a travesty from an athletic standpoint and an academic standpoint, and neither side got justice.
There was an excellent opinion piece in the Charlotte paper today Student Athlete is Officially Dead - ( New Window )
The thing that was brought up here that I don't get is even if the NCAA doesn't have the balls to do anything, why isn't the academic indiscretion being addressed by a governing body, like the accrediting body?
Even at that, the NCAA has now set a terrible precedent. It is weak to claim this is an academic issue and not an athletic one. But, given that, the next player from any program that gets deemed academically ineligible should appeal and the program (if a big one) should fight it. That is an academic issue, not an athletic one...right?
What are the legal grounds to fight a reasonable sanction for this? The NCAA is the governing body for college athletics. Part of that is eligibility. This is a scandal more than 20 years in the making for which the sole intent was to make otherwise ineligible athletes eligible. How is that not sanctionable? I understand it may be a legal fight they don't want to spend resources on, but I fail to see how they don't have a case. IF they don't have a case here, then don't have a case any time academics are involved to determine eligibility in my opinion.
This is pure BS and if it was a smaller program, they 100% would have acted with sanctions.
was "exonerated" and we're still arguing on it pisses me off.
They weren't exonerated from shit. If anything, they got off on a legal technicality that was completely taken advantage of from the very beginning and offered an easy out. If you're willing to spend over $20 Million to defend yourselves, you're willing to do the up-front homework required to study the NCAA guidelines for impermissible benefits.
Unless you're a UNC fan. In that case, everything is fine and how DARE anyone question our institution!
was fighting a legal team that UNC paid $20M to. That legal team used NCAA rules to posture that this was a academic issue that impacted everyone, not just student athletes.
Jay Bilas, a lawyer, said by the letter of the law the NCAA had no jurisdiction.
Others have opined that since the NCAA sanctions players for academic deficiency and the classes clearly gave an advantage to keeping players eligible, that should've closed a loophole.
But a team of lawyers hauling in $20M have an arsenal to fight that.
What that tells me is that UNC is spineless when it comes to integrity.
when UNC had to answer for academic issues, their team of lawyers argued that it was an athletic matter.
I'm not kidding.
I know. That is both hypocritical and ridiculous. And, as I've just said in a couple of posts, I just don't see how the NCAA has no case. Their job is not to deal with the accrediting or auditing of the course itself for academic purposes. However, when there is evidence that these are bogus classes attended almost entirely by athletes and athletes on the verge of ineligibility for that matter, this is 100% their jurisdiction.
The fact that regularly matriculated students also attended doesn't exonerate UNC. It only exacerbates the matter and should draw the attention of academic bodies that accredit the university and perhaps the Federal government if federal funds have been received. Plus, this is a state school which means state tax dollars are going to a shady program.
The logic that not only athletes benefited means it's purely academic is ridiculous and BS. Even if 1 athlete benefited, it would still be a violation if it was a BS class, he never attended, etc. This is just a violation, or rather 20+ years of multiple violations.
was fighting a legal team that UNC paid $20M to. That legal team used NCAA rules to posture that this was a academic issue that impacted everyone, not just student athletes.
Jay Bilas, a lawyer, said by the letter of the law the NCAA had no jurisdiction.
Others have opined that since the NCAA sanctions players for academic deficiency and the classes clearly gave an advantage to keeping players eligible, that should've closed a loophole.
But a team of lawyers hauling in $20M have an arsenal to fight that.
What that tells me is that UNC is spineless when it comes to integrity.
F Jay Bilas. I say that is BS. The NCAA clearly does have a case as long as even 1 athlete benefited from a bogus class, grade, etc. That is a violation. This takes that to an exponential level. The difference here is UNC lawyered up with a very expensive team, meaning they were willing to fight this for a very long time. Legally, I think the NCAA case would be sound...or rather the UNC case unsound.
RE: The fact that this thread still states that UNC
was "exonerated" and we're still arguing on it pisses me off.
They weren't exonerated from shit. If anything, they got off on a legal technicality that was completely taken advantage of from the very beginning and offered an easy out. If you're willing to spend over $20 Million to defend yourselves, you're willing to do the up-front homework required to study the NCAA guidelines for impermissible benefits.
Unless you're a UNC fan. In that case, everything is fine and how DARE anyone question our institution!
Trash.
I would say they didn't get off on a legal technicality. They got off on the NCAA being spineless and not wanting to spend the resources to fight this in court. That is BS. Why is there not more public outcry? Where is the UNC governor, when tax dollars are spent for this university?
at the differences between SU being under investigation for several years and UNC.
SU self imposed sanctions, the NCAA only had minimal violations and not only gave them a postseason ban and took away scholarships, they stripped Boeheim of something like 100 wins. This was on top of what SU already imposed.
Meanwhile, a UNC scandal drags on for several years, the school not only doesn't impose self-penalties, they hire a legal team to debunk the accusations and lo and behold, they lose nothing. Nada.
Once UNC stopped playing nice with the NCAA, it was over for the NCAA. Lawyers went to work and they were prepared to fight this in court for years. Self imposing penalties is basically admitting guilt.
I think you will see more schools in the future lawyer up and not play nice. They'll be far better off doing so.
I'm not going to get into any type of debate on whether or not what UNC did was wrong, it clearly was, but from the beginning i think it was pretty clear that they NCAA did not have the authority to do anything about it
If this were Duke you would be going ballistic. And your logic is ridiculous.
SU self imposed sanctions, the NCAA only had minimal violations and not only gave them a postseason ban and took away scholarships, they stripped Boeheim of something like 100 wins. This was on top of what SU already imposed.
Meanwhile, a UNC scandal drags on for several years, the school not only doesn't impose self-penalties, they hire a legal team to debunk the accusations and lo and behold, they lose nothing. Nada.
Once UNC stopped playing nice with the NCAA, it was over for the NCAA. Lawyers went to work and they were prepared to fight this in court for years. Self imposing penalties is basically admitting guilt.
I think you will see more schools in the future lawyer up and not play nice. They'll be far better off doing so.
I'm not going to get into any type of debate on whether or not what UNC did was wrong, it clearly was, but from the beginning i think it was pretty clear that they NCAA did not have the authority to do anything about it
Holy asshairs.
They shouldn't have to play the game of lawyering up to mitigate punishment, and that's where we've gotten to in this world.
UNC had classes for nearly 2 decades that existed solely for keeping athletes eligible. It is a travesty from an athletic standpoint and an academic standpoint, and neither side got justice.
There was an excellent opinion piece in the Charlotte paper today
Student Athlete is Officially Dead - ( New Window )
Wonder why they had to defend themselves so vigorously. Weird.
They shouldn't have to play the game of lawyering up to mitigate punishment, and that's where we've gotten to in this world.
UNC had classes for nearly 2 decades that existed solely for keeping athletes eligible. It is a travesty from an athletic standpoint and an academic standpoint, and neither side got justice.
There was an excellent opinion piece in the Charlotte paper today Student Athlete is Officially Dead - ( New Window )
Even at that, the NCAA has now set a terrible precedent. It is weak to claim this is an academic issue and not an athletic one. But, given that, the next player from any program that gets deemed academically ineligible should appeal and the program (if a big one) should fight it. That is an academic issue, not an athletic one...right?
I'm not kidding.
This is pure BS and if it was a smaller program, they 100% would have acted with sanctions.
They weren't exonerated from shit. If anything, they got off on a legal technicality that was completely taken advantage of from the very beginning and offered an easy out. If you're willing to spend over $20 Million to defend yourselves, you're willing to do the up-front homework required to study the NCAA guidelines for impermissible benefits.
Unless you're a UNC fan. In that case, everything is fine and how DARE anyone question our institution!
Trash.
Jay Bilas, a lawyer, said by the letter of the law the NCAA had no jurisdiction.
Others have opined that since the NCAA sanctions players for academic deficiency and the classes clearly gave an advantage to keeping players eligible, that should've closed a loophole.
But a team of lawyers hauling in $20M have an arsenal to fight that.
What that tells me is that UNC is spineless when it comes to integrity.
I'm not kidding.
The fact that regularly matriculated students also attended doesn't exonerate UNC. It only exacerbates the matter and should draw the attention of academic bodies that accredit the university and perhaps the Federal government if federal funds have been received. Plus, this is a state school which means state tax dollars are going to a shady program.
The logic that not only athletes benefited means it's purely academic is ridiculous and BS. Even if 1 athlete benefited, it would still be a violation if it was a BS class, he never attended, etc. This is just a violation, or rather 20+ years of multiple violations.
Jay Bilas, a lawyer, said by the letter of the law the NCAA had no jurisdiction.
Others have opined that since the NCAA sanctions players for academic deficiency and the classes clearly gave an advantage to keeping players eligible, that should've closed a loophole.
But a team of lawyers hauling in $20M have an arsenal to fight that.
What that tells me is that UNC is spineless when it comes to integrity.
They weren't exonerated from shit. If anything, they got off on a legal technicality that was completely taken advantage of from the very beginning and offered an easy out. If you're willing to spend over $20 Million to defend yourselves, you're willing to do the up-front homework required to study the NCAA guidelines for impermissible benefits.
Unless you're a UNC fan. In that case, everything is fine and how DARE anyone question our institution!
Trash.
Quote:
at the differences between SU being under investigation for several years and UNC.
SU self imposed sanctions, the NCAA only had minimal violations and not only gave them a postseason ban and took away scholarships, they stripped Boeheim of something like 100 wins. This was on top of what SU already imposed.
Meanwhile, a UNC scandal drags on for several years, the school not only doesn't impose self-penalties, they hire a legal team to debunk the accusations and lo and behold, they lose nothing. Nada.
Once UNC stopped playing nice with the NCAA, it was over for the NCAA. Lawyers went to work and they were prepared to fight this in court for years. Self imposing penalties is basically admitting guilt.
I think you will see more schools in the future lawyer up and not play nice. They'll be far better off doing so.
I'm not going to get into any type of debate on whether or not what UNC did was wrong, it clearly was, but from the beginning i think it was pretty clear that they NCAA did not have the authority to do anything about it
If this were Duke you would be going ballistic. And your logic is ridiculous.