Raanan's article

around here. I think we frequently hear half the story on the young man.

So I ask, why are we just reading this type of stuff now?? Two weeks ago, he was a distraction and a cancer. Now he is the heartbeat.

Put me in the camp that says the Giants will retain and pay the young man what he is worth when it is all said and done. He and Collins are the cornerstone players of this team going forward. And unless McAdoo can heal the rift that now exists between him and the locker room, there will be a new HC in 2018.

it was probably meaningless given how well the Eagles are playing.

At the time however it was definitely not meaningless. The Giants had a chance coming out of that weekend to be just 1 game behind the Cowboys with a home matchup awaiting, 1.5 back of Washington with 2 games ahead, and 2 games back of Philly with a home matchup on the schedule.

With 11 games left to play, those margins were certainly within reach.

It didn't turn out that way, but at the time the division was still up for grabs.

Well, the new angle people are taking since the whole "cancer" thing has been debunked and it's crystal clear that his teammates love him and have his back, is to say that he's setting a shitty example for the team and that the lack of leadership is his fault.

Basically, no matter what he does, the people who dislike him will continue to twist and turn to find ways to make this season his fault.

Everyone already knows where I stand on him, so I'm not going to bother re-hashing all of it or spending hours arguing about him.

All I'll say is that his teammates continue to support him and stand behind him. Not only that, but he's also respected by several other players across the league (Von Miller thinks Beckham should be the highest paid player in the entire league...)

The premise that he causes any type of dissension or divide in this locker room is complete and utter horse shit.

If there's a leadership problem on this team, blame the coach for not setting the proper standard or not gaining the respect of all his players.

Blame the guy who looked like he couldn't possibly give less of a fuck when his best player was on the ground writhing in pain.

I wish nothing but the best for OBJ. However, I’m more interested in winning in regards to the Giants. Wide receivers are the least important part of a team. With proper coaching I’ll be fine with a bunch of good wide receivers. Spend the money elsewhere.i didn’t see OBJ on either team last night. Both looked better than the Giants by a wide margin

but Jordan has been brutal this year.

In comment 13647059 Emil said:

Quote:

around here. I think we frequently hear half the story on the young man. So I ask, why are we just reading this type of stuff now?? Two weeks ago, he was a distraction and a cancer. Now he is the heartbeat. Put me in the camp that says the Giants will retain and pay the young man what he is worth when it is all said and done. He and Collins are the cornerstone players of this team going forward. And unless McAdoo can heal the rift that now exists between him and the locker room, there will be a new HC in 2018.

I support OBJ also...just not some of his antics.
That said, OBJ will walk.
This is an OK-Good team in 2020, with some wise acquisitions and coaching... possibly.
OBJ often acts up out of frustration of the team failures since he's been here.Wants to win, and will go where money meets winners.

In comment 13647064 Painless62 said:

Quote:

I wish nothing but the best for OBJ. However, I’m more interested in winning in regards to the Giants. Wide receivers are the least important part of a team. With proper coaching I’ll be fine with a bunch of good wide receivers. Spend the money elsewhere.i didn’t see OBJ on either team last night. Both looked better than the Giants by a wide margin

Only about 10-12 WR's are making more than Alshon Jeffery this year.

In comment 13647059 Emil said:

Quote:

see now I thought it was a secret, cuz I've been hanging on every word you've said for quite some time now.....

I think it's the wishes of John Mara that Beckham stays on this team. If the Giants draft a young signal caller to take over in a couple years, that makes paying OBJ even easier. I think the Giants need attitudes like Beckham's and Collins's on this team.

He is making 9.5. Not 16. Jordy Nelson makes about 11. I would rather have either of those 2 plus a good player somewhere else. My point is there is a law of diminishing returns. The gap between a 10 Million a year WR and what OBJ wants vs the potential bigger impact he might have, isn’t worth it. Also, OBJ might want 20. Pass. Go look at the top 10 teams salary caps. See where the smart money goes

Julio Jones was paid more than any WR in football last year and the Falcons would have won the Super Bowl if not for some of the most horrific playcalling in the history of the sport.

This idea that you can't pay a WR big money and field a competitive team is, quite frankly, bullshit.

The 90 team lost its starting QB and went on to win a Super Bowl.

This makes a lot of sense.

My feelings on Beckham are well documented, they are somewhere between "let's trade him" and wiping his ass and making excuses for him at every turn. I see Beckham as both an explosive talent and also a liability when unable to control himself within the game.

He is a great player but I do NOT see him as the leader of a winning football team. This article seems to shed more light on a lot of the problems with this team.

Is a guy who can demoralize a defense in so many ways. He is a weapon who hasn't even scratched the surface of what he could potentially be. Why are so many willing to give up on a player oozing with talent about to enter his peak years?

FWIW, I think this season was doomed to fail with or without Beckham.

They're poorly coached and it's not just McAdoo. Spagnuolo has done a poor job this season as well. There's no reason why this defense should have regressed like this.

Reese also deserves blame for some of the roster deficiencies.

I just don't agree with the premise that you can't pay a WR big money and be a contending team.

The root issue with this team seems to be the fact that they're unable to scout offensive linemen well. Reese has basically been building the team from the outside in because he seems to have a better eye for skill players and DB's.

I think you could pay Beckham and still field a good football team if the person in charge was better equipped to build stronger trenches and work from the inside out.

In comment 13647098 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Julio Jones was paid more than any WR in football last year and the Falcons would have won the Super Bowl if not for some of the most horrific playcalling in the history of the sport. This idea that you can't pay a WR big money and field a competitive team is, quite frankly, bullshit.

The Steelers must sux

When you allow for half hearted changes in leadership. When Coughlin left, so should have Reese. It's hard to part with leaders who were part of championship runs, but when the slate isn't wiped clean from the top down, the same issues fester. This team has been one dimensional on offense for years. The defensive philosophy, save for last year, has been abysmal. New ideas and new philosophies have been needed for a long time.

He is a great talent but I am not so sure his body will hold up over time. He puts his body out there and is not a big guy. He has been nicked up and now is out for the rest of this year. No guarantee he comes back 100%. As far as being a leader I do not put him in that category because of his antics and dumb penalties. Giants have used a double standard with him and I think today’s players will use that against a coach or front office when the losing starts.
One player cannot never put himself above the team no matter how great he is. Football is a team sport. Sorry you can’t win with the distraction he brings. If we fix OL and get a better RB this offense will be much better, Let another team spend $20M + for OBJ.

In comment 13647098 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Julio Jones was paid more than any WR in football last year and the Falcons would have won the Super Bowl if not for some of the most horrific playcalling in the history of the sport. This idea that you can't pay a WR big money and field a competitive team is, quite frankly, bullshit.

I disagree a 100000000000000000% on your argument for one very good reason! The Falcons have a lot of solid draft picks on their team and their Oline wand running backs are pretty darn good. We are empty at both positions. You can't pay one player on offense so much that you can't pay others who are need to allow that one player to even be effective!

be needed..

or any more meaningless than any other game this season.

You don't sit players because your team stinks.

+1

You are getting paid millions to play football. You play football. So what, the team is losing and you aren't tackling.

Guaranteed contracts.....

In comment 13647064 Painless62 said:

Quote:

I wish nothing but the best for OBJ. However, I’m more interested in winning in regards to the Giants. Wide receivers are the least important part of a team. With proper coaching I’ll be fine with a bunch of good wide receivers. Spend the money elsewhere.i didn’t see OBJ on either team last night. Both looked better than the Giants by a wide margin

In all seriousness, your point makes no logical sense. So the Panthers and the Eagles, who do not have OBJ, are having better seasons than the Giants, so therefore OBJ is not important to the success of the team going forward? I agree with you that it is best to have a trio of good WRs, but no reason why OBJ and Sterling Shephard can't be 50% of that group.

As far as being the least important part of the team, I don't think the last 15 years of NFL play supports your theory. Maybe you don't need an OBJ, but most superbowl winners have good to excellent WR play, and usually have a clear number one receiver in the passing game. And before anyone points to the New England Patriots, they do have the best TE in the game, who is uncoverable when healthy. Also, it's not like Edelman is not a pro-bowl WR.

The 2015 Broncos had Thomas and Emmanuel Sanders.
The 2013 Seahawks (as run heavy as they were) relied on big plays in the passing game from Doug Baldwin (who is underrated)
The 2012 Ravens relied heavily on Anquan Bolden
The 2011 Giants had Cruz and Nicks in their prime.
The 2010 Packers are consistent with your point, as they had Nelson, Driver, Jennings, and James Jones. (The Packers are the exception though, they seldom have a draft bust)
The 2009 Saints are similar to the Packers as they had decent corps of WRs, highlighted by Colston.
The 2008 Steelers had Holmes in his prime, and Ward working the underneath stuff
And the 2007 Giants had Plaxico Burress, who was frankly uncoverable in 2007-2008, and the wiley veteran Amani Toomer.

The careers of Jerry Rice and Michael Irvin prove that the WR does matter and great WRs are critical parts of dynasties. The Eagles were not super bowl contendors until Terrel Owens showed up (McNabb was the one that choked). I think saying WRs are the least important part of the team, is flatly incorrect, especially in today's NFL. I put it right up there with the fallacy that you don't need a running game to win anymore. This is a complementary sport, which makes it the best sport their is. There are multiple ways to win. No one scheme is better than the other, no one offensive system is better than the other. Schemes rise and fall in popularity, but whether it's WCO, 11 personnel, 12 personnel, or power I, the team that executes it's scheme well wins more often than not.

In comment 13647098 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Julio Jones was paid more than any WR in football last year and the Falcons would have won the Super Bowl if not for some of the most horrific playcalling in the history of the sport. This idea that you can't pay a WR big money and field a competitive team is, quite frankly, bullshit.

100% agree and good example.

In comment 13647298 Emil said:

Quote:

In comment 13647064 Painless62 said: Quote: I wish nothing but the best for OBJ. However, I’m more interested in winning in regards to the Giants. Wide receivers are the least important part of a team. With proper coaching I’ll be fine with a bunch of good wide receivers. Spend the money elsewhere.i didn’t see OBJ on either team last night. Both looked better than the Giants by a wide margin In all seriousness, your point makes no logical sense. So the Panthers and the Eagles, who do not have OBJ, are having better seasons than the Giants, so therefore OBJ is not important to the success of the team going forward? I agree with you that it is best to have a trio of good WRs, but no reason why OBJ and Sterling Shephard can't be 50% of that group. As far as being the least important part of the team, I don't think the last 15 years of NFL play supports your theory. Maybe you don't need an OBJ, but most superbowl winners have good to excellent WR play, and usually have a clear number one receiver in the passing game. And before anyone points to the New England Patriots, they do have the best TE in the game, who is uncoverable when healthy. Also, it's not like Edelman is not a pro-bowl WR. The 2015 Broncos had Thomas and Emmanuel Sanders. The 2013 Seahawks (as run heavy as they were) relied on big plays in the passing game from Doug Baldwin (who is underrated) The 2012 Ravens relied heavily on Anquan Bolden The 2011 Giants had Cruz and Nicks in their prime. The 2010 Packers are consistent with your point, as they had Nelson, Driver, Jennings, and James Jones. (The Packers are the exception though, they seldom have a draft bust) The 2009 Saints are similar to the Packers as they had decent corps of WRs, highlighted by Colston. The 2008 Steelers had Holmes in his prime, and Ward working the underneath stuff And the 2007 Giants had Plaxico Burress, who was frankly uncoverable in 2007-2008, and the wiley veteran Amani Toomer. The careers of Jerry Rice and Michael Irvin prove that the WR does matter and great WRs are critical parts of dynasties. The Eagles were not super bowl contendors until Terrel Owens showed up (McNabb was the one that choked). I think saying WRs are the least important part of the team, is flatly incorrect, especially in today's NFL. I put it right up there with the fallacy that you don't need a running game to win anymore. This is a complementary sport, which makes it the best sport their is. There are multiple ways to win. No one scheme is better than the other, no one offensive system is better than the other. Schemes rise and fall in popularity, but whether it's WCO, 11 personnel, 12 personnel, or power I, the team that executes it's scheme well wins more often than not.

And excuse my math, OBJ and Shepherd would be roughly 66% of a good "trio" of WRs.

My original statement was almost as good as a maddenism.

In comment 13647077 old man said:

Quote:

In comment 13647059 Emil said: Quote: around here. I think we frequently hear half the story on the young man. So I ask, why are we just reading this type of stuff now?? Two weeks ago, he was a distraction and a cancer. Now he is the heartbeat. Put me in the camp that says the Giants will retain and pay the young man what he is worth when it is all said and done. He and Collins are the cornerstone players of this team going forward. And unless McAdoo can heal the rift that now exists between him and the locker room, there will be a new HC in 2018. I support OBJ also...just not some of his antics. That said, OBJ will walk. This is an OK-Good team in 2020, with some wise acquisitions and coaching... possibly. OBJ often acts up out of frustration of the team failures since he's been here.Wants to win, and will go where money meets winners.

Respectfully, I don't agree. Giants have him next year, can franchise him the year after that, and arguably franchise him a second time if need be. Also, if you assume that by the end of the 2018 season the Giants will eiter restructure Eli, release Eli, or Eli will retire, then much of what Eli will be owed will go to OBJ.

In comment 13647093 Painless62 said:

Quote:

He is making 9.5. Not 16. Jordy Nelson makes about 11. I would rather have either of those 2 plus a good player somewhere else. My point is there is a law of diminishing returns. The gap between a 10 Million a year WR and what OBJ wants vs the potential bigger impact he might have, isn’t worth it. Also, OBJ might want 20. Pass. Go look at the top 10 teams salary caps. See where the smart money goes

You seem to have arrived in full dupe mode quickly.

In comment 13647254 section125 said:

Quote:

You are getting paid millions to play football. You play football. So what, the team is losing and you aren't tackling. Guaranteed contracts.....

This isn't the first time you've brought this up. You do realize the NFL is the only sport that does NOT have guaranteed contracts, right?

Well, you can’t pay Beckham and pay 22,5 Million to JPP. His contract is WAY worse. A consistent no show. Has been for many years against any quality. I’ve said it before. If he worked at the loading dock he would a actually have an IMPAIRMENT rating