JPP waste of money

that if you look at JPP's stats, he tends to get his sacks in clusters, and against weaker teams.....

The most maddening thing is, he just seems to disappear in games.....

Watch him go against top Tackles, and he is controlled....even scarier, is when TE's block him one on one....

I think about when he came back that first year after the accident...played the last 8 games....only had one sack, and missed a few others because of that hand.....but he was hustling all over the field and giving 100%, and creating pressure, and played the run well....

But the fact remains, when it came time to sign a DE, he was the best available, and we had to pay, because we had no one to play the position....but I have not seen that same hustle/desire since he signed the contract....that 8 games of hustle, got him probably his last big contract....

1. we may need an additional big nose tackle to make this system work. Possibly Harrison gets worn down, or is wasted as the best DT unit, forced to stay home too much. The new kid is ok, but seems a solid one gapper without a nifty horizontal move, Bromley is a jag so far, and the free agent is a meh.

2. Trying to 'prove' the linebackers too much, too much classic 4/3. We don't actually know if this is from Spagnulo or a directive from Macadoo, or the second thing, macadoo, but under pressure from Reese.

3. D-backs. Dbacks coach is a holdover, or am I wrong. Its been fifty years of not letting the safeties free to get under routes, we don't actually know how much authority Spagnulo has over dback schematics, who plays where.

---------

My two cents has always been that coordinators ought to have authority and let sink or swim. In fact, I seem to remember that TC had a moment where he let his coordinators have more authority ..and with good results.


Bottom line though, its all speculation. As fans, we have seen clues though.

There’s no denying that JPP has been an average performer this year...
Simms11 : 10:21 am : link : reply
Can he still get to the passer? Yes he can and he’s shown it. He’s never been a guy that can bend around the edge very well. He’s always been more of a bull rusher. JPP is also always more effective with other DEs that can rush the passer. His good years were with guys like Osi, Strahan and Tuck. I think he may look much better once OV gets back in the lineup.


He is only as good as the guy playing opposite him?

Let's see, they are doubling Snacks, they are doubling OV, and they are doubling JPP? I don't think so.....many times JPP is blocked by one guy....he does not have a plethora of moves.....he never has....

replacing Bromley with Tomlinson.

to that signing, that would have improved the pass rush are....

In comment 13648887 bc4life said:

Quote:

to that signing, that would have improved the pass rush are....

many of the clueless think we could have signed Osemele instead....even though he was a FA in the prior year... not last year....so we have that going for us

can't beat his man, but it's the DC's fault.

JPP hasn't been good since 2011, but I guess that was Fewell's fault.

Don’t see anything here I disagree with, JPP has always been streaky, always played better with more talent around him, always had a questionable motor, was better when he was younger and had both hands, and was the best FA DE when he signed his current contract. I was happy to have back. A big problem is the lack of depth at DE and the absence of talent at the LB position. This Giants team is paying the price for 10 years of medicore and unlucky drafts. I also think our defenses tend to rather bland in terms of bringing the thump and nasty.

In comment 13648919 Gman11 said:

Quote:

can't beat his man, but it's the DC's fault. JPP hasn't been good since 2011, but I guess that was Fewell's fault.

That’s factually not correct
Solid effort with the broad stroke though

chargers game perfect example, defense is working when he is blitzing and bringing pressure then all of sudden goes to a 3 man rush...

Last year collins was blitzing constantly on 3rd down, this year he is barely blitzing...

4th quarter against eagles and bucs he went to that stupid orevent with a 3 man rush and both teams went right down the field..

hes getting double-teamed like your mom does every weekend, shut up

the problem isn't signing
fkap : 9:40 am : link : reply
JPP or Vernon. the problem is that we have been unable to draft reasonable replacements at DE so we were forced to pay a fortune for good, but not great, players. The money hit sucks, but the reality is that you are NOT bringing in, or resigning, decent to good players for reasonable money. the choice when signing either JPP or Vernon was to overpay, or suck at DE. It's almost a guarantee that if we hadn't signed either, the same people railing against either would be railing against Reese for not signing or resigning either and leaving us with shitty DE play (and if you think either is giving shitty play, wait til you see the play of the JAGs who would have been playing). JPP has had motivational issues in the past, so it's not really surprising that he's a bit lackluster on a team that hasn't looked all that motivated all year.

I was against the contract JPP got, but I also recognized the necessity of it, since it was obvious we were in a win now mode (which I was, and still am, against).

Owamagbe Odighizuwa #3 Total bust
Damontre Moore #3 Total Bust
Marvin Austin #2 Total Bust
Clint Sintim #2 Total Bust
Jay Alford #3 Total Bust
Gerris Wilkinson #3 Total Bust
Linval Joseph #2 Very Good player let's him Walk
Barry Cofield #4 Good Starter let's him walk
Johnathan Hankins #2 Good starter lets him walk
Dalvin Tomlinson #2 Jury still out
Jay Bromley #3 Jury still out

Building a defensive line we have a revolving door policy
at defensive tackle . I guess going back to Cofield
is a bit to fa but was just another decent DT we let walk
Since 2006 we have added one starter to the Defensive end
position . Not one impact LB either although Goodson has the makings of a good 2 down thumper as it looks like he is a step slow in coverage .
This why Jerry Reese needs to be replaced .
Not even gonna attempt the offensive line because of that 6 year rebuild is under a serious challenge as well it grades out near the bottom of the NFL with at least four contracts that have to be decided on .

was that he would start mailing it in after he received his big payday

Very simple. He is making pro bowl player money. He is not even close. The debate on how good he is has gone on for years. He is not close to even being the best DE who plays in the stadium . I would take either of the Jets DE’s before him. Players who make that kind of money should have no real questions about how good they are. Would we be debating how good Strahan is for years? No, because it is obvious. Again, GM acting like a stupid fan grasping at names instead of properly allocating resources. Last draft was rich at the DE position. Overpay Hankins if you must and draft a young talented DE. Save millions , get younger at key position and probably get better production.

Very solid and effective though not flashy. He and Snacks in combination allowed other players to be better, notably, the DL.

played poorly last year is idiotic, you guys keep banging the drum that his sack totals were padded. Even if that is true, he was still very disruptive, stout against the run, and led DL in tipped balls.

I'm starting to think many of you either don't watch the games, or have no understanding of what you are watching. I'm betting on the latter.

It could certainly be argued that he isn't playing up to his contract this year. He had one bad game, and a bunch of "ok" games.

I understand that he is paid better than that, but when you start with the snarky comments about last year, and padded sack totals, you make yourselves sound like imbeciles to anybody that understood what they were watching last season

when he made that fireworks mistake, looks like we doubled down on stupid and should have moved on. I guess we will see soon enough.

on Bromley he sucks.

Thats what we have here.

JPP has graded out poorly all year. He is being dominated. I can check, but his PFF rating might actually be at Flowers’ level. If anyone could look that up I’d be interested, but I remember reading he was in the 40’s

hired by family members milking the system. Screw the fans and the product they are living well . Time for a revolt ? Maybe ?

In comment 13648948 Bluesbreaker said:

Quote:

the problem isn't signing fkap : 9:40 am : link : reply JPP or Vernon. the problem is that we have been unable to draft reasonable replacements at DE so we were forced to pay a fortune for good, but not great, players. The money hit sucks, but the reality is that you are NOT bringing in, or resigning, decent to good players for reasonable money. the choice when signing either JPP or Vernon was to overpay, or suck at DE. It's almost a guarantee that if we hadn't signed either, the same people railing against either would be railing against Reese for not signing or resigning either and leaving us with shitty DE play (and if you think either is giving shitty play, wait til you see the play of the JAGs who would have been playing). JPP has had motivational issues in the past, so it's not really surprising that he's a bit lackluster on a team that hasn't looked all that motivated all year. I was against the contract JPP got, but I also recognized the necessity of it, since it was obvious we were in a win now mode (which I was, and still am, against). Owamagbe Odighizuwa #3 Total bust Damontre Moore #3 Total Bust Marvin Austin #2 Total Bust Clint Sintim #2 Total Bust Jay Alford #3 Total Bust Gerris Wilkinson #3 Total Bust Linval Joseph #2 Very Good player let's him Walk Barry Cofield #4 Good Starter let's him walk Johnathan Hankins #2 Good starter lets him walk Dalvin Tomlinson #2 Jury still out Jay Bromley #3 Jury still out Building a defensive line we have a revolving door policy at defensive tackle . I guess going back to Cofield is a bit to fa but was just another decent DT we let walk Since 2006 we have added one starter to the Defensive end position . Not one impact LB either although Goodson has the makings of a good 2 down thumper as it looks like he is a step slow in coverage . This why Jerry Reese needs to be replaced . Not even gonna attempt the offensive line because of that 6 year rebuild is under a serious challenge as well it grades out near the bottom of the NFL with at least four contracts that have to be decided on .

How do build/improve a team when you draft like shit and are annually replacing the decent people you have and let go? Reese has been terrible.

one-on-one...

and on the money. We all realize that we are dealing with a FAMILY business here in NYC. They are living high on the hog with a shit product and management. Hoping, as a long time fan, for a major change or GOODNIGHT for me.

The notion that JPP
LakeGeorgeGiant : 12:44 pm : link : reply
played poorly last year is idiotic, you guys keep banging the drum that his sack totals were padded. Even if that is true, he was still very disruptive, stout against the run, and led DL in tipped balls.

I'm starting to think many of you either don't watch the games, or have no understanding of what you are watching. I'm betting on the latter.

It could certainly be argued that he isn't playing up to his contract this year. He had one bad game, and a bunch of "ok" games.

I understand that he is paid better than that, but when you start with the snarky comments about last year, and padded sack totals, you make yourselves sound like imbeciles to anybody that understood what they were watching last season.....



Now let's see...in his first 9 games, he had 1.5 sacks....that means in 7 of those games, he had none.....

Then against the 3-13 Bears, he had 2.5 sacks....

Then against the 1-15 Cleveland Browns, he had 3.0 sacks....

So in 12 games, 8 of those games he had no sacks.....he had 1.5 in 2 other games, and 5.5 against two terrible teams....

I will admit, he did knock down a few passes....

I will also admit, he let quite a few qb's run for first downs on his side.....maybe you went for a beer and missed those.....but I guess imbecile stats don't count....

The guy was invisible in a lot of games last year, just like he is this year....and if you can't see that, maybe you should get a braille tv...

which I wanted, too. Shame on me.

Read my post again. I said since 2011,JPP has been a good,not great,player. This year he has been a JAG. Don't see how anyone can disagree with this.

.

and what I saw last year too...

He had 5.5 sacks against Cleveland and Chicago of his 7 total. We would have been better off paying Hankins.


Quote:


JPP was a great player in 2011. He's been a good,far from great player since. He is a flawed player with a good part of one hand missing. Today,IMO,he is a JAG. He does little to impact the game. Most of the time you don't even notice him out there. I thought it was a terrible signing way back and feel even stronger about it today. And for those who say he holds the edge well against the run,please!



And what was he last year? When he had 54 qb hurries in just 11.5 games? And was 2nd in passes deflected ?

Because you are saying he is jag.... that type is capable of those numbers right? And in 2014? He was jag? Nope not at all.
He is having an underachieving 2017... that doesn’t mean that is the book on him [/quote]

Its not so much signing as it is overpaying. What offers were out there for a guy with half a hand?????

Quote:

JPP or Vernon. the problem is that we have been unable to draft reasonable replacements at DE so we were forced to pay a fortune for good, but not great, players. The money hit sucks, but the reality is that you are NOT bringing in, or resigning, decent to good players for reasonable money. the choice when signing either JPP or Vernon was to overpay, or suck at DE. It's almost a guarantee that if we hadn't signed either, the same people railing against either would be railing against Reese for not signing or resigning either and leaving us with shitty DE play (and if you think either is giving shitty play, wait til you see the play of the JAGs who would have been playing). JPP has had motivational issues in the past, so it's not really surprising that he's a bit lackluster on a team that hasn't looked all that motivated all year. I was against the contract JPP got, but I also recognized the necessity of it, since it was obvious we were in a win now mode (which I was, and still am, against).

but it was the length of the contract that I did have an issue with. We had no idea whether this guy could really play after his accident. How can you commit to a guy in a contract like that?

He also had us over a barrel because we did not have much else.

We did know whether JPP could play. He showed it in the two partial seasons he played after his hand incident. The hand isn't, and wasn't, much of an issue. There were certainly other red flags/concerns, but the hand wasn't one of them

In comment 13649345 fkap said:

Quote:

We did know whether JPP could play. He showed it in the two partial seasons he played after his hand incident. The hand isn't, and wasn't, much of an issue. There were certainly other red flags/concerns, but the hand wasn't one of them

ok got it. Thanks for the clarification and I guess that makes me feel a little better about how it all transpired. So, let me ask you this. do you think based upon what he showed in the two partial seasons that it made sense to sign him to that contract?

On one side of the argument we have XBRONX and ThatLimmerickGuy. On the opposite side we have hitdog.

I won't give any spoilers, but which side would YOU tend to have more belief in? One side is roundly respected as one of the very best, most clued in posters on the site. The other side? Lol.

Sure it is. If you evaluate a DL by sacks only? then he makes a lot of sense.

Saying JPP was invisible in several games last year is BS. And mentioning sacks numbers does NOT back it up.

JPP was excellent last year. If the Giants didn't give him the money somebody else would have. Why? Because he played excellent ball in 2016.

Or was the contract given to him because of padded stats in 2 games? Is that it. LOL. The NFL scouts and GMs can't recognize what a guy like Doomster thinks he sees? Now that is comedy.

Getting sacks against bad teams like the broncos

Collinsworth just said the Giants coaches said that "JPP play hasn't jumped off the tape".

they didn't say he was invisible last year or got a big contract based on 2 games last year. If they said that they would sound like nothing but ignorant part timers.

They only said he didn't jump off film this year. That's it.

Nothing about last year.

He started the year off with 2 good games. Since then he's struggled with the TB game possibly the worst game of his career. It's only been a couple of games but we have people here taking that and saying he hasn't done shot since 2011. That is a horseshit opinion.

From over the LG . QB steps up and throws the pick.

suuuucks

They said Giants have "2 big horses inside".

The 3rd horse was JPP. He pushed his guy 2 yards back into the RB. And Jenkins came up and made a play.

Jenkins came up like a champ at the goal line.

.

Well timed..... errrrrr

bigger than Pugh during the interview.

3 sacks? Great but he did a lot more than those 3 plays.

In comment 13650951 KWALL2 said:

Quote:

3 sacks? Great but he did a lot more than those 3 plays.

Yes he did. Made plays all over...

In comment 13649030 Doomster said:

Quote:

The notion that JPP LakeGeorgeGiant : 12:44 pm : link : reply played poorly last year is idiotic, you guys keep banging the drum that his sack totals were padded. Even if that is true, he was still very disruptive, stout against the run, and led DL in tipped balls. I'm starting to think many of you either don't watch the games, or have no understanding of what you are watching. I'm betting on the latter. It could certainly be argued that he isn't playing up to his contract this year. He had one bad game, and a bunch of "ok" games. I understand that he is paid better than that, but when you start with the snarky comments about last year, and padded sack totals, you make yourselves sound like imbeciles to anybody that understood what they were watching last season..... Now let's see...in his first 9 games, he had 1.5 sacks....that means in 7 of those games, he had none..... Then against the 3-13 Bears, he had 2.5 sacks.... Then against the 1-15 Cleveland Browns, he had 3.0 sacks.... So in 12 games, 8 of those games he had no sacks.....he had 1.5 in 2 other games, and 5.5 against two terrible teams.... I will admit, he did knock down a few passes.... I will also admit, he let quite a few qb's run for first downs on his side.....maybe you went for a beer and missed those.....but I guess imbecile stats don't count.... The guy was invisible in a lot of games last year, just like he is this year....and if you can't see that, maybe you should get a braille tv...

Despite what you Madden players might believe, there is more to playing DE than fucking sacks.

All you've done is rattle off another load of misleading sack totals. He was fucking disruptive. Even when he wasn't getting sacks, he was disruptive.

Not just about sacks.

Not just about sacks. Are we getting it yet Doomster?

I made that he plays really well only a couple of games a year and not when we need the critical sack. Last night I guess he decided he should turn it on with that shitty RT in the game.

I guess his own pregame speech got him fired up...

Hope he continues this fabulous one game trend

Aside from last night, he's been playing dreadful football... but it's not from a lack of effort.