JPP waste of money

And I stand behind that decision. The talent didn't suddenly disappear and I don't believe his ineffectiveness is a result of poor effort or poor study habits. Whatever problems the defense is having, JPP is part of the solution.

let's pick on/blame another player thread.....

And Veron is good when he plays

jpp has been invisible all year, keep waiting for him to make an impact play and it just doesnt happen

if they decide to retool the roster next year, jpp is one of the players they need to re-assess going forward

take advantage of a few weak O-lines and grab like 7 sacks in 2 games during drives that have no meaning in the overall view of the season.

That way someone here can start a thread to say we have to keep JPP becaus he ended the 2017 season with 9 sacks...

Your post is right on. JPP is so overpaid. Love people making excuses. At seasnon end we will hear he played all year with an ankle sprain.

In comment 13648757 Jimmy Googs said:

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take advantage of a few weak O-lines and grab like 7 sacks in 2 games during drives that have no meaning in the overall view of the season. That way someone here can start a thread to say we have to keep JPP becaus he ended the 2017 season with 9 sacks...

LOL. Yup.

miscalculation.

The production from the defensive ends was a large part of that... from pressures to tackles to defending the run. Jpp has had 1 awful game this year- solid during the rest of them- he is being paid to be better then solid so that is a bit of a disappointment. I also think the way spags is calling games has castrated a lot of players and removed the fast twitch from the defense- which is awful

In comment 13648780 hitdog42 said:

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The production from the defensive ends was a large part of that... from pressures to tackles to defending the run. Jpp has had 1 awful game this year- solid during the rest of them- he is being paid to be better then solid so that is a bit of a disappointment. I also think the way spags is calling games has castrated a lot of players and removed the fast twitch from the defense- which is awful

Spags play calling has sucked. 3 down linemen sets are useless. Don't care how talented the DBs are 4 secs gives even the worst QB time to find an open man. Also, zone blitzes are terrible. How often do they work vs how many times the QB finds the hole where that DT/DE is defending....

To lineup and get after teams.
Instead spags tries to outthink the o coordinator and scheme his way to victory.... that is not a proper usage of skill set and talent on the defense, and has resulted in our d playing slow
It’s nauseating to watch

He's been overrated and underachieving his entire career ... he'll show a promising streak every once in awhile, but is really a model of inconsistency. I've never liked him.

I was lambasted.

In comment 13648780 hitdog42 said:

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The production from the defensive ends was a large part of that... from pressures to tackles to defending the run. Jpp has had 1 awful game this year- solid during the rest of them- he is being paid to be better then solid so that is a bit of a disappointment. I also think the way spags is calling games has castrated a lot of players and removed the fast twitch from the defense- which is awful

I think more disappointing than anything else is his run defense. Dude is crashing so much the HB's have easy access to the outside banging off these weak OLB's and into Thompson.

In comment 13648754 joeinpa said:

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And Veron is good when he plays

For what Vernon is being paid, being good isn’t “good” enough.

I wonder when the Giants can get out of that contract without massive cap issues.

I always figured that Harrison and Jenkins were going to live up to those contracts and Vernon be the wildcard.

Can’t pay someone Von Miller money for Olivier Vernon production.

He lived up to every bit of his contract last year

Did anyone watch Vernon all of last year and the early part of this year before injury?

Hes virtually unblockable in the run game, and buzzes aroun the QB constantly. He is a complete stud.

JPP has had one bad game? Wow

In comment 13648823 XBRONX said:

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JPP has had one bad game? Wow

He has had one noticeably bad game. He hasn’t been living up to the contract this year in others but he’s not been “bad”.
Are we talking bad or just not living up to contract? Two different questions.

Don’t even try that shit now

But he hasn’t been a difference maker.

With Vernon out, he’s been getting double teamed the last few games. The problem is the Giants have no impact depth at end after him and Vernon.

paid to rush the passer and play the run. He was invisible rushing the passer in the Dallas and Philly.

Vernon deal. Bob guys are actually very good players but it's about cap allocation for me. Espacially as the OL gets Fluker on a bargain basement deal vs the amount of draft picks and dollars for the DL.

Easy at this point to point to JPP though as who is playing well?

JPP or Vernon. the problem is that we have been unable to draft reasonable replacements at DE so we were forced to pay a fortune for good, but not great, players. The money hit sucks, but the reality is that you are NOT bringing in, or resigning, decent to good players for reasonable money. the choice when signing either JPP or Vernon was to overpay, or suck at DE. It's almost a guarantee that if we hadn't signed either, the same people railing against either would be railing against Reese for not signing or resigning either and leaving us with shitty DE play (and if you think either is giving shitty play, wait til you see the play of the JAGs who would have been playing). JPP has had motivational issues in the past, so it's not really surprising that he's a bit lackluster on a team that hasn't looked all that motivated all year.

I was against the contract JPP got, but I also recognized the necessity of it, since it was obvious we were in a win now mode (which I was, and still am, against).

for the buck now. not good but not bad.

It makes one wonder if the Giants are even capable of getting their money’s worth over the last several seasons. All we see from many players are flashes of potential. No consistency whatsoever. You can watch team after team and know going in that certain individuals will play at a different level game after game. With the Giants, it’s like a box of chocolates. The worse thing about chocolate...it tastes good for a few minutes then it melts into nothingness.

JPP was a great player in 2011. He's been a good,far from great player since. He is a flawed player with a good part of one hand missing. Today,IMO,he is a JAG. He does little to impact the game. Most of the time you don't even notice him out there. I thought it was a terrible signing way back and feel even stronger about it today. And for those who say he holds the edge well against the run,please!

They just have an awful coaching staff.

In comment 13648846 Marty866b said:

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JPP was a great player in 2011. He's been a good,far from great player since. He is a flawed player with a good part of one hand missing. Today,IMO,he is a JAG. He does little to impact the game. Most of the time you don't even notice him out there. I thought it was a terrible signing way back and feel even stronger about it today. And for those who say he holds the edge well against the run,please!

And what was he last year? When he had 54 qb hurries in just 11.5 games? And was 2nd in passes deflected ?

Because you are saying he is jag.... that type is capable of those numbers right? And in 2014? He was jag? Nope not at all.
He is having an underachieving 2017... that doesn’t mean that is the book on him

In comment 13648853 Rflairr said:

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They just have an awful coaching staff.

This- spags is not letting his guys play fast. It’s just stupid

For the money he’s getting paid, I think most would agree that he’s not currently worth the expense. Will that change? It’s yet to be seen, and with the record as it is, we may not see a motivated JPP this year. Can he still get to the passer? Yes he can and he’s shown it. He’s never been a guy that can bend around the edge very well. He’s always been more of a bull rusher. JPP is also always more effective with other DEs that can rush the passer. His good years were with guys like Osi, Strahan and Tuck. I think he may look much better once OV gets back in the lineup. Whether he gets sacks against lesser Olines, is immaterial. He still has to line up and play, regardless of who the opponent is. Will Von Miller give back his sacks against the Giants because our Oline stinks?

In comment 13648780 hitdog42 said:

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The production from the defensive ends was a large part of that... from pressures to tackles to defending the run. Jpp has had 1 awful game this year- solid during the rest of them- he is being paid to be better then solid so that is a bit of a disappointment. I also think the way spags is calling games has castrated a lot of players and removed the fast twitch from the defense- which is awful

Are you hearing any indication that Spags play calling on defense is a source of frustration and dissension among the players?

Not as a replacement but to add to the rotation to keep JPP/Vernon fresh. I think they'd look a lot better with a pure rusher added to the fray in the Osi/Dwight Freeney mold.

that if you look at JPP's stats, he tends to get his sacks in clusters, and against weaker teams.....

The most maddening thing is, he just seems to disappear in games.....

Watch him go against top Tackles, and he is controlled....even scarier, is when TE's block him one on one....

I think about when he came back that first year after the accident...played the last 8 games....only had one sack, and missed a few others because of that hand.....but he was hustling all over the field and giving 100%, and creating pressure, and played the run well....

But the fact remains, when it came time to sign a DE, he was the best available, and we had to pay, because we had no one to play the position....but I have not seen that same hustle/desire since he signed the contract....that 8 games of hustle, got him probably his last big contract....

1. we may need an additional big nose tackle to make this system work. Possibly Harrison gets worn down, or is wasted as the best DT unit, forced to stay home too much. The new kid is ok, but seems a solid one gapper without a nifty horizontal move, Bromley is a jag so far, and the free agent is a meh.

2. Trying to 'prove' the linebackers too much, too much classic 4/3. We don't actually know if this is from Spagnulo or a directive from Macadoo, or the second thing, macadoo, but under pressure from Reese.

3. D-backs. Dbacks coach is a holdover, or am I wrong. Its been fifty years of not letting the safeties free to get under routes, we don't actually know how much authority Spagnulo has over dback schematics, who plays where.

---------

My two cents has always been that coordinators ought to have authority and let sink or swim. In fact, I seem to remember that TC had a moment where he let his coordinators have more authority ..and with good results.


Bottom line though, its all speculation. As fans, we have seen clues though.

There’s no denying that JPP has been an average performer this year...
Simms11 : 10:21 am : link : reply
Can he still get to the passer? Yes he can and he’s shown it. He’s never been a guy that can bend around the edge very well. He’s always been more of a bull rusher. JPP is also always more effective with other DEs that can rush the passer. His good years were with guys like Osi, Strahan and Tuck. I think he may look much better once OV gets back in the lineup.


He is only as good as the guy playing opposite him?

Let's see, they are doubling Snacks, they are doubling OV, and they are doubling JPP? I don't think so.....many times JPP is blocked by one guy....he does not have a plethora of moves.....he never has....

replacing Bromley with Tomlinson.

to that signing, that would have improved the pass rush are....

In comment 13648887 bc4life said:

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to that signing, that would have improved the pass rush are....

many of the clueless think we could have signed Osemele instead....even though he was a FA in the prior year... not last year....so we have that going for us

can't beat his man, but it's the DC's fault.

JPP hasn't been good since 2011, but I guess that was Fewell's fault.

Don’t see anything here I disagree with, JPP has always been streaky, always played better with more talent around him, always had a questionable motor, was better when he was younger and had both hands, and was the best FA DE when he signed his current contract. I was happy to have back. A big problem is the lack of depth at DE and the absence of talent at the LB position. This Giants team is paying the price for 10 years of medicore and unlucky drafts. I also think our defenses tend to rather bland in terms of bringing the thump and nasty.

In comment 13648919 Gman11 said:

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can't beat his man, but it's the DC's fault. JPP hasn't been good since 2011, but I guess that was Fewell's fault.

That’s factually not correct
Solid effort with the broad stroke though

chargers game perfect example, defense is working when he is blitzing and bringing pressure then all of sudden goes to a 3 man rush...

Last year collins was blitzing constantly on 3rd down, this year he is barely blitzing...

4th quarter against eagles and bucs he went to that stupid orevent with a 3 man rush and both teams went right down the field..

hes getting double-teamed like your mom does every weekend, shut up

the problem isn't signing
fkap : 9:40 am : link : reply
JPP or Vernon. the problem is that we have been unable to draft reasonable replacements at DE so we were forced to pay a fortune for good, but not great, players. The money hit sucks, but the reality is that you are NOT bringing in, or resigning, decent to good players for reasonable money. the choice when signing either JPP or Vernon was to overpay, or suck at DE. It's almost a guarantee that if we hadn't signed either, the same people railing against either would be railing against Reese for not signing or resigning either and leaving us with shitty DE play (and if you think either is giving shitty play, wait til you see the play of the JAGs who would have been playing). JPP has had motivational issues in the past, so it's not really surprising that he's a bit lackluster on a team that hasn't looked all that motivated all year.

I was against the contract JPP got, but I also recognized the necessity of it, since it was obvious we were in a win now mode (which I was, and still am, against).

Owamagbe Odighizuwa #3 Total bust
Damontre Moore #3 Total Bust
Marvin Austin #2 Total Bust
Clint Sintim #2 Total Bust
Jay Alford #3 Total Bust
Gerris Wilkinson #3 Total Bust
Linval Joseph #2 Very Good player let's him Walk
Barry Cofield #4 Good Starter let's him walk
Johnathan Hankins #2 Good starter lets him walk
Dalvin Tomlinson #2 Jury still out
Jay Bromley #3 Jury still out

Building a defensive line we have a revolving door policy
at defensive tackle . I guess going back to Cofield
is a bit to fa but was just another decent DT we let walk
Since 2006 we have added one starter to the Defensive end
position . Not one impact LB either although Goodson has the makings of a good 2 down thumper as it looks like he is a step slow in coverage .
This why Jerry Reese needs to be replaced .
Not even gonna attempt the offensive line because of that 6 year rebuild is under a serious challenge as well it grades out near the bottom of the NFL with at least four contracts that have to be decided on .

was that he would start mailing it in after he received his big payday

Very simple. He is making pro bowl player money. He is not even close. The debate on how good he is has gone on for years. He is not close to even being the best DE who plays in the stadium . I would take either of the Jets DE’s before him. Players who make that kind of money should have no real questions about how good they are. Would we be debating how good Strahan is for years? No, because it is obvious. Again, GM acting like a stupid fan grasping at names instead of properly allocating resources. Last draft was rich at the DE position. Overpay Hankins if you must and draft a young talented DE. Save millions , get younger at key position and probably get better production.

Very solid and effective though not flashy. He and Snacks in combination allowed other players to be better, notably, the DL.

played poorly last year is idiotic, you guys keep banging the drum that his sack totals were padded. Even if that is true, he was still very disruptive, stout against the run, and led DL in tipped balls.

I'm starting to think many of you either don't watch the games, or have no understanding of what you are watching. I'm betting on the latter.

It could certainly be argued that he isn't playing up to his contract this year. He had one bad game, and a bunch of "ok" games.

I understand that he is paid better than that, but when you start with the snarky comments about last year, and padded sack totals, you make yourselves sound like imbeciles to anybody that understood what they were watching last season

when he made that fireworks mistake, looks like we doubled down on stupid and should have moved on. I guess we will see soon enough.