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Did Jets get screwed on TD vs Pats?

twostepgiants : 10/15/2017 4:59 pm
Video of the play is on the link

The play goes from a Jets TD to Pats ball at the 20.

What is the right call here and why?


NFL owes an explanation to Jets - ( New Window )
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They got boned  
Sec 103 : 10/15/2017 5:00 pm : link
Big time
Terrible  
mrvax : 10/15/2017 5:04 pm : link
call.
.  
Danny Kanell : 10/15/2017 5:05 pm : link
Awful call, especially considering it was ruled a touchdown on the field.
Yes  
Rflairr : 10/15/2017 5:09 pm : link
Terrible call.
Completely unacceptable screw job  
BigBlueShock : 10/15/2017 5:12 pm : link
And a lot of good an explanation will do. They still get the loss and we will continue to see completely unacceptable calls in every single game. The product is a disaster
Yes  
jeff57 : 10/15/2017 5:13 pm : link
Yes they did.
Absolutely  
gmenatlarge : 10/15/2017 5:14 pm : link
Bowles doesn't even give the refs a hard time, should have raised hell over that one!
100%  
OBJRoyal : 10/15/2017 5:15 pm : link
And how does NE end up with a touchback??? Holy smokes*it
Reminds me of this play from a few years ago  
Sarcastic Sam : 10/15/2017 5:16 pm : link
Giants-Redskins

except it looked like the Jets receiver kept possession to the ground.

Damn NFL.
This is why I don't really watch anymore.  
Britt in VA : 10/15/2017 5:25 pm : link
Ridiculous.
That may be a technically correct call  
81_Great_Dane : 10/15/2017 5:26 pm : link
but then there's a problem with the rule.

Runner loses control of the ball on the way into the end zone. Other team never touches it. Ball never hits the ground. He never had control of the ball in the end zone, so it's not a TD, fine. But it shouldn't be a "fumble into the end zone."

It's a fluky situation, but the offense should get the ball at the spot the ball carrier lost it. Or maybe at the 1.
the pass interference call earlier in ther game was ridiculous  
gtt350 : 10/15/2017 5:27 pm : link
this call was a travisty
Yes they did...  
Chris in Philly : 10/15/2017 5:28 pm : link
I wish it would have happened to the Eagles...
RE: That may be a technically correct call  
BigBlueShock : 10/15/2017 5:29 pm : link
In comment 13649318 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
but then there's a problem with the rule.

Runner loses control of the ball on the way into the end zone. Other team never touches it. Ball never hits the ground. He never had control of the ball in the end zone, so it's not a TD, fine. But it shouldn't be a "fumble into the end zone."

It's a fluky situation, but the offense should get the ball at the spot the ball carrier lost it. Or maybe at the 1.

From every single angle I seen, including the still shot in the link in the op, shows that he clearly regained possession. And even if you want to debate whether he did or didn't, the call on the field was a touchdown. So where is the indisputable evidence to overturn it?
RE: Reminds me of this play from a few years ago  
81_Great_Dane : 10/15/2017 5:29 pm : link
In comment 13649308 Sarcastic Sam said:
Quote:
Giants-Redskins

except it looked like the Jets receiver kept possession to the ground.

Damn NFL.
Ball hit the ground out of bounds, I have less problem with that call.
In hindsight we were better off before replay  
gtt350 : 10/15/2017 5:30 pm : link
sure they blew some calls but nothing has changed except more commercials.
the NFL rules and interpretations  
micky : 10/15/2017 5:35 pm : link
in replays has become analysis of paralysis.
A mockery  
PEEJ : 10/15/2017 6:00 pm : link
of a travesty
RE: That may be a technically correct call  
MBavaro : 10/15/2017 6:10 pm : link
In comment 13649318 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
but then there's a problem with the rule.

Runner loses control of the ball on the way into the end zone. Other team never touches it. Ball never hits the ground. He never had control of the ball in the end zone, so it's not a TD, fine. But it shouldn't be a "fumble into the end zone."

It's a fluky situation, but the offense should get the ball at the spot the ball carrier lost it. Or maybe at the 1.


He had control again when he hit the pylon
Jets got screwed. Typical Patriots. Even when they should lose  
Blue21 : 10/15/2017 6:11 pm : link
they get lucky and win. Pat fans will be strutting around like peacocks tomorrow.
Looks to me like  
BlackLight : 10/15/2017 6:25 pm : link
he lost control of the ball before he crossed the goalline, then didn't re-secure it until he was down and out of bounds.
RE: RE: That may be a technically correct call  
Justlurking : 10/15/2017 6:28 pm : link
In comment 13649322 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13649318 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


but then there's a problem with the rule.

Runner loses control of the ball on the way into the end zone. Other team never touches it. Ball never hits the ground. He never had control of the ball in the end zone, so it's not a TD, fine. But it shouldn't be a "fumble into the end zone."

It's a fluky situation, but the offense should get the ball at the spot the ball carrier lost it. Or maybe at the 1.


From every single angle I seen, including the still shot in the link in the op, shows that he clearly regained possession. And even if you want to debate whether he did or didn't, the call on the field was a touchdown. So where is the indisputable evidence to overturn it?


he juggled the ball going out of bounds but never lost it. absolutely the worst call I've ever seen. Truly unreal that they overturned a TD there.
How do...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/15/2017 6:28 pm : link
you overrule what was called on the field?

He has the ball cradled in his arms as he hits the pylon.

How can the NFL keep living with calls like this.
RE: RE: RE: That may be a technically correct call  
BlackLight : 10/15/2017 6:31 pm : link
In comment 13649357 Justlurking said:
Quote:



he juggled the ball going out of bounds but never lost it. absolutely the worst call I've ever seen. Truly unreal that they overturned a TD there.


If he juggled the ball going out of bounds, then he might as well have lost it.
Clearly a TD.  
Red Dog : 10/15/2017 6:34 pm : link
He is a runner at that point and he has NOT LOST possession when he hits the pylon WHICH IS IN THE EFFING END ZONE.

This is a perfect example of why I don't watch the NFL any more.
RE: In hindsight we were better off before replay  
djm : 10/15/2017 6:36 pm : link
In comment 13649326 gtt350 said:
Quote:
sure they blew some calls but nothing has changed except more commercials.


This is flat false. Trust me you don't want to go back to the days of no replay. For every bad call there are 5 good ones. The refs suck but the replay process isn't making things worse. Replay is a much needed aid.

Baseball replay is another story entirely. I'm convinced the umpires are missing more calls because they know replay can and will bail them out.
RE: RE: That may be a technically correct call  
ChaChing : 10/15/2017 6:44 pm : link
In comment 13649346 MBavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 13649318 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
but then there's a problem with the rule.

Runner loses control of the ball on the way into the end zone. Other team never touches it. Ball never hits the ground. He never had control of the ball in the end zone, so it's not a TD, fine. But it shouldn't be a "fumble into the end zone."

It's a fluky situation, but the offense should get the ball at the spot the ball carrier lost it. Or maybe at the 1.


He had control again when he hit the pylon

Watching the replays IMO he loses the ball b4 breaking the plane then it's tough to tell when he gets it back. It's fluky but I'm not sure there's a rule change to be made. In fact, he doesn't really have possession again until it ends up in his right hand after he bobbles it - if he had held it in his left the whole way I'd say TD. But when he falls into the pylon w/o possession its a touchback. Looked right to me

The only thing is maybe they shouldn't have overturned the call on the field being so close, but I'm surprised at the outrage even by the announcers
Ive never seen a fumble before where the player  
twostepgiants : 10/15/2017 6:54 pm : link
Actually had the ball leave their hands before
he clearly fumbles  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/15/2017 7:05 pm : link


The problem is the "fumble out of the end zone" rule.
RE: he clearly fumbles  
jeff57 : 10/15/2017 7:09 pm : link
In comment 13649398 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:


The problem is the "fumble out of the end zone" rule.


What fumble? The ball never hit the ground.
The explanation I heard in the Jets post-game radio show  
Matt M. : 10/15/2017 7:10 pm : link
was that they determined he did not have control of the ball until he went to the ground and lost it. That should result in the no TD, but I don't see how it is ruled a fumble if they are saying he didn't have control.

Had he had complete control before going to the ground, it would have been a TD because at that point he was a runner and would have crossed the plane in control.
RE: The explanation I heard in the Jets post-game radio show  
Matt M. : 10/15/2017 7:13 pm : link
In comment 13649401 Matt M. said:
Quote:
was that they determined he did not have control of the ball until he went to the ground and lost it. That should result in the no TD, but I don't see how it is ruled a fumble if they are saying he didn't have control.

Had he had complete control before going to the ground, it would have been a TD because at that point he was a runner and would have crossed the plane in control.
Bit, I don't understand that explanation. The problem was that it was incorrectly ruled a TD on the field. The replay shows he did fumble the ball before being down and before crossing the plane/hitting the pylon. The review actually yielded the correct call, in my opinion.
RE: RE: In hindsight we were better off before replay  
jeff57 : 10/15/2017 7:14 pm : link
In comment 13649366 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13649326 gtt350 said:


Quote:


sure they blew some calls but nothing has changed except more commercials.



This is flat false. Trust me you don't want to go back to the days of no replay. For every bad call there are 5 good ones. The refs suck but the replay process isn't making things worse. Replay is a much needed aid.

Baseball replay is another story entirely. I'm convinced the umpires are missing more calls because they know replay can and will bail them out.


Agree they missed a lot of calls. Just see how many are correctly reversed.
RE: RE: The explanation I heard in the Jets post-game radio show  
jeff57 : 10/15/2017 7:16 pm : link
In comment 13649402 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 13649401 Matt M. said:


Quote:


was that they determined he did not have control of the ball until he went to the ground and lost it. That should result in the no TD, but I don't see how it is ruled a fumble if they are saying he didn't have control.

Had he had complete control before going to the ground, it would have been a TD because at that point he was a runner and would have crossed the plane in control.

Bit, I don't understand that explanation. The problem was that it was incorrectly ruled a TD on the field. The replay shows he did fumble the ball before being down and before crossing the plane/hitting the pylon. The review actually yielded the correct call, in my opinion.


He never fumbled. The ball never hit the ground. He might not have had possession, but then the TD just should have been reversed.
RE: RE: The explanation I heard in the Jets post-game radio show  
Matt M. : 10/15/2017 7:16 pm : link
In comment 13649402 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 13649401 Matt M. said:


Quote:


was that they determined he did not have control of the ball until he went to the ground and lost it. That should result in the no TD, but I don't see how it is ruled a fumble if they are saying he didn't have control.

Had he had complete control before going to the ground, it would have been a TD because at that point he was a runner and would have crossed the plane in control.

Bit, I don't understand that explanation. The problem was that it was incorrectly ruled a TD on the field. The replay shows he did fumble the ball before being down and before crossing the plane/hitting the pylon. The review actually yielded the correct call, in my opinion.
Had he landed inbounds in the endzone, it would have remained a TD because he regained control on the ground. But, while the ball was out, he hit the pylon which is both the end zone and out of bounds and was not yet down. He landed down out of bounds. So he never re-gained control inbounds.
He NEVER LOST possession of the effing ball.  
Red Dog : 10/15/2017 7:19 pm : link
It was in his arm when he hit the pylon.

The fact that he didn't have it in his arm OUTSIDE the end zone is meaningless because he got it back into his arm again.

The final ruling is absolutely bullshit wrong.

I think the argument under the existing rule is:  
81_Great_Dane : 10/15/2017 7:20 pm : link
Ball is out before it goes into the end zone.

Ball remains loose while it's in the end zone, never in ball carrier's possession in end zone.

Ball goes over sideline.

Ball carrier regains possession but is out of bounds.

Therefore, since the ball was fumbled, was never in anyone's possession in the end zone, and then went out of bounds before it was regained, it's a fumble out of the end zone. So, technically, the call is correct.

I think the moral of the story for ball carriers going to the corner of the end zone is: DON'T DO THAT.
Regardless of whether the call was technically correct  
Gary from The East End : Admin : 10/15/2017 7:21 pm : link
The refs should never do something like this.

Use a little common sense for fuck's sake.
The ball is clearly in his possession when he hits the pylon.  
Red Dog : 10/15/2017 7:23 pm : link
I've got no interest in either of these teams.

This is the most outrageously bad call I have ever seen.
RE: A mockery  
Eli's Bleeding Forehead : 10/15/2017 7:24 pm : link
In comment 13649342 PEEJ said:
Quote:
of a travesty



This call was a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham
RE: I think the argument under the existing rule is:  
jeff57 : 10/15/2017 7:25 pm : link
In comment 13649417 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
Ball is out before it goes into the end zone.

Ball remains loose while it's in the end zone, never in ball carrier's possession in end zone.

Ball goes over sideline.

Ball carrier regains possession but is out of bounds.

Therefore, since the ball was fumbled, was never in anyone's possession in the end zone, and then went out of bounds before it was regained, it's a fumble out of the end zone. So, technically, the call is correct.

I think the moral of the story for ball carriers going to the corner of the end zone is: DON'T DO THAT.


IT WAS NEVER FUMBLED. The ball never hit the ground in bounds.
I think it's pretty simple  
B in ALB : 10/15/2017 7:25 pm : link
was there absolute evidence to change the call on the field? No.

Refs do what they want when they want to do it. The league is a fraud.
jeff57  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/15/2017 7:27 pm : link
what makes you think that the ball has to hit the ground for it to be fumbled?

If a Patriot snagged it out of the air before ASJ regained possession, what would it be? An interception? I think not.

'
Quote:
ARTICLE 5. FUMBLE
A Fumble is any act, other than passing, handing, or legally kicking the ball, which results in a loss of player possession. The use of the term Fumble always means that the ball was in possession of a player when the act occurred (8-7).
RE: The ball is clearly in his possession when he hits the pylon.  
Eli's Bleeding Forehead : 10/15/2017 7:27 pm : link
In comment 13649422 Red Dog said:
Quote:
I've got no interest in either of these teams.

This is the most outrageously bad call I have ever seen.


It's up there but not the worst I've seen.
This was the worst I have seen - ( New Window )
RE: jeff57  
jeff57 : 10/15/2017 7:29 pm : link
In comment 13649431 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
what makes you think that the ball has to hit the ground for it to be fumbled?

If a Patriot snagged it out of the air before ASJ regained possession, what would it be? An interception? I think not.

'

Quote:


ARTICLE 5. FUMBLE
A Fumble is any act, other than passing, handing, or legally kicking the ball, which results in a loss of player possession. The use of the term Fumble always means that the ball was in possession of a player when the act occurred (8-7).



Did a Patriot catch the ball? No. So the issue is whether the ball hit the ground.p
Did Homegirl Ref call this one too?  
B in ALB : 10/15/2017 7:31 pm : link
What's she up to these days? Still in the league?
He had the ball but never  
joeinpa : 10/15/2017 7:33 pm : link
Had possession in the end one. The ball came out at the 1/2 yard line and was not recovered in the end zone, it was recovered out of bounds.

That s the only explanation they can give. By rule that is a touchback.

The Jets have an argument that there was not enough evidence to show he did not have possession in the end zone.

I don t think we will see NFL saying this was a mistake.
That's the thing.  
Sarcastic Sam : 10/15/2017 7:37 pm : link
Clear and convincing evidence.... does not exist of where the receiver regained control.

Therefore, replay must defer to the ruling on the field which was a touchdown.

I guess we can't blame Blandino for the NFL fuckups anymore...
That fckin  
Mr. Nickels : 10/15/2017 7:38 pm : link
bullshit call is going to cost me my win in fantasy.

Up by 8 i'd be up by 16.
RE: He had the ball but never  
Matt M. : 10/15/2017 7:38 pm : link
In comment 13649445 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Had possession in the end one. The ball came out at the 1/2 yard line and was not recovered in the end zone, it was recovered out of bounds.

That s the only explanation they can give. By rule that is a touchback.

The Jets have an argument that there was not enough evidence to show he did not have possession in the end zone.

I don t think we will see NFL saying this was a mistake.
There certainly was enough evidence. He lost the ball before he crossed the plane. He was airborne at that point, so he would have to gain control when he landed, which was out of bounds. Had he landed inbounds in the end zone, I think it would be a TD.
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