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The change in this game was the defense

Greg from LI : 10/16/2017 9:53 am
The offense scored 23 points last night. The previous three weeks, they scored 22, 23, and 24 points, so while the offense was improved by some measures, its actual output remained the same. The difference was the defense allowing just ten points after 27, 25, and 27 points previously.

I know some people are going to try to make a folk hero out of Mike Sullivan, but the story was the defense reverting to their 2016 form.
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RE: Yep.  
gmenatlarge : 10/16/2017 10:20 am : link
In comment 13651524 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
People will bring up the offense, especially the OLine and running game. And while they do deserve credit, the difference in this game was the defense not only showed up, but actually got some turnovers AND scored some points. That's something the defense hasn't done at all up to this point, except last night.


All true, but this was the first game they got to play with a LEAD all season, you win as a team.
RE: Greg  
djstat : 10/16/2017 10:20 am : link
In comment 13651489 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I would say you are correct. I would also add that we won the turnover differential for the first time all season AND the special teams didn't implode.
It is a variety of things. The defense got off the field. Some 3 and outs, turnovers etc. Play we have not seen all year. The offense ran the ball effectively and controlled field position. Sullivan made a difference in his plan and execution and staying with the plan not trying for too much. This was a team win.
Yes and No  
ZogZerg : 10/16/2017 10:20 am : link
You can say the same thing about the "D" as you can about the "O". The defense gave up over 400 yards.

This was more of a TEAM win than anything.

The offense was able move the ball and score early. That was huge for a road game in a tough stadium against a tough D with no WRs playing.

The Defense was able to keep the Broncos off the score board and stop their running game.

The special Teams was able to kick some long Field Goals and not do anything stupid.

This was more of a TEAM win than one side or the other propelling the team.
The pick six was HUGE  
Bluesbreaker : 10/16/2017 10:23 am : link
It made Denver abandon the run game and the lead allowed us
to run the ball more . Were not gonna win a ton of games with the weapons we have now unless we can continue to be able to run the ball and the turnovers keep coming . Engram will get
much more attention now and the WR's need to step it up .
I think they need to use Perkins on some 3rd downs as a receiver and see if he can replace Vereen . No sense in letting him rot on the bench . Agree with Eric you kinda cross your fingers with Darkwa . I think we still need a quality back someone to hit the HR and has power to take a
FT role .
about a third of that yardage game on Denver's last two drives  
Greg from LI : 10/16/2017 10:26 am : link
When they were down 20-3 and the Giants were in prevent mode.
It's the same reason the Giants went 11-5 last year as many have said.  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/16/2017 10:30 am : link
If the defense is going to play like that every week, which they did last season, they were good enough to carry the team last year.
Only thing that felt different was that  
NYSports1 : 10/16/2017 10:31 am : link
The defense played up to its potential even if it was vs a scrub qb and a team who absolutely overlooked us. The offense to me did nothing...Scored under 20 again. Played with zero pressure due to how great the defense was. Ran well but a couple of those runs led to bulk of yards. I did not see anything from the offense except they did not turn the ball over and got out of the way of the defense. I do not expect the Giants defense to play that well for many games except if the qb sucks
the offense did far better considering  
George from PA : 10/16/2017 10:38 am : link
we lost all the NFL wrs.

but the defense looked like their old selves
The defense  
Fish : 10/16/2017 10:39 am : link
suffered earlier this season because the offense couldn't get their heads out of their asses. Complimentary football was played yesterday.
Last night  
WillVAB : 10/16/2017 10:40 am : link
The Giants played the best defense in the AFC, arguably the entire NFL.

They had practice squad guys playing WR vs the no fly zone.

The OL pushed around Denver's front and ran the ball extremely well. Better than Dallas or anyone else fared so far this year. Pass pro was very solid -- Von Miller made what, one play?

Eli and the passing game moved the ball enough to chew clock and keep the defense honest.

They didn't score 30, but they coached and played a very good game. They played with an 80s Giants identity, and they'll be in every game going forward if they can maintain that level of play.
Ah, so that's going to be the new buzzword  
Greg from LI : 10/16/2017 10:43 am : link
"Identity" - sure, only 260 total yards and 16 points, but now they have an identity!
Defense played that bend  
Simms11 : 10/16/2017 10:44 am : link
but not break D. Kept them out of the End zone which was huge. They still gave up way too many deep catches to Thomas. The safety needs to do a better job there. A guy like Thomas needs to be doubled. Also Spags blitzed more with effective results. JPP played his best game of year. The Giants need to figure out a better way to cover TEs and RBs because Robinson is not getting it done this year and RBs and TEs are killing us every game. It will be more of the same this week with Graham and company coming to town!
Actually, it wasn't that good ...  
Beer Man : 10/16/2017 10:45 am : link
The O did a good job controlling the flow of the game, but they actually only scored 16 points, Jack Rabbit scored on the INT. 16 points will not win most games for them. It showed that we had no WRs, as they were covered well all night
RE: Ah, so that's going to be the new buzzword  
Britt in VA : 10/16/2017 10:46 am : link
In comment 13651613 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
"Identity" - sure, only 260 total yards and 16 points, but now they have an identity!


Do you feel like they've had one on offense for the past 4 5 games? Hell the past season and a half, outside of chuck it to Beckham and hope he takes it to the house?
Well the fact that we could move the ball a bit  
Reb8thVA : 10/16/2017 10:47 am : link
helped ensure that the defense wouldn't be gased at the end.
Greg  
WillVAB : 10/16/2017 10:48 am : link
You're always posting nostalgic bullshit and here the Giants played a classic 80s style game, and you're not happy with the offense. What did you expect them to do? Did you expect Rodger Lewis to go for 150 and 2 scores vs the best secondary in the league?

The Giants ran the ball extremely well, controlled the clock, made a few key passes, and played great defense. That's an identity.
I don't care about identities  
Greg from LI : 10/16/2017 10:48 am : link
I care about results. If the defense had been playing like this all along, we'd be having very different conversations today.
Consider who the Giants had playing for them at WR...  
jsuds : 10/16/2017 10:48 am : link
Or maybe you want to think about who was NOT on the field for us at WR. Either way, taken as a big picture view, the offense improved its performance significantly over the first five losses by being able to run the football. The formula was dictated by the losses at starting WR and the coaches adapted to their set of players and IT EFFING WORKED. What a pleasant surprise and I believe it is repeatable. Seattle will be a good test.
And furthermore, Greg....  
Britt in VA : 10/16/2017 10:49 am : link
for all of us that want to make Sullivan a "folk hero", there are equal amounts of posters, like yourself, who claim that he sucks, so you accuse others of trying to prop him up, you yourself are trying to tear him down as to not have to admit maybe he wasn't as bad an alternative as you've been saying.
The offense, especially in the 2nd half, was playing the game per  
PatersonPlank : 10/16/2017 10:49 am : link
the scoreboard. No turnovers, run the clock, win field position.

In my opinion, the short drive where we got the ball from our 1 to our 30 (or whatever) was huge. It doesn't look like anything in the stats, but it was huge for time and for field position.
Hey, I'm glad they ran the ball well  
Greg from LI : 10/16/2017 10:50 am : link
It was nice to see. The play of the defense was still much more crucial to the win.
All things considered....  
Britt in VA : 10/16/2017 10:51 am : link
they were playing against the number one ranked defense, on the road, who was also coming off a bye, without all three of our starting WR's.

Wouldn't kill you to give the offense a little credit.
I have a theory on the sudden defensive improvement  
Eric on Li : 10/16/2017 10:51 am : link
Maybe Simien just isn't as good as Winston, Dak, Wentz, Rivers, or Stafford? He made 2 bigger, and relatively unforced, turnovers than all 5 of the others put together while also lacking their arm talent to threaten downfield. The only way he was able to get the ball downfield was by letting Thomas win 50-50 balls and once the WR's and OL got banged up he's just not good enough to overcome that.

That's not to say I disagree with the point that if the defense played this well the team would be 4-2 or 5-1 because they would. If JPP played the way he did last night they'd have at least 1 more win. Part of them playing better likely also related to playing from ahead instead of from behind all game. Both units played their cleanest game of the season and that combination complimented each other's success. The offense's improvement from the Dallas game without OBJ to last night was glaring though, and I consider that the most noteworthy development.
Get ready  
Fish : 10/16/2017 11:09 am : link
for more power packages. This is a running team now and Darkwa health is key.
Everything works in theory.  
jsuds : 10/16/2017 11:10 am : link
Yeah the D played better and like was expected day one of this season. The OL looked good too. The coaching also improved. Football is a team sport. The results are what you get when you put it all together.
RE: All things considered....  
ryanmkeane : 10/16/2017 11:10 am : link
In comment 13651640 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
they were playing against the number one ranked defense, on the road, who was also coming off a bye, without all three of our starting WR's.

Wouldn't kill you to give the offense a little credit.

Exactly. By the responses today you would have thought we lost 17-10.
Part of game planning  
ryanmkeane : 10/16/2017 11:13 am : link
and coaching is realizing what you have and the opponent's strengths, the situation. We obviously weren't going to throw the ball 35 times this game with JV receivers going against the best secondary in football. We took our chances when necessary, played within the game and beat them soundly. What else do you want? Our offense isn't going to be that great without Beckham and Shepard. But, it can certainly be perhaps competent enough.
A big part of the game  
ryanmkeane : 10/16/2017 11:14 am : link
was also field position. We got 3 and outs on defense, which made the offense not start at the damn 5 on every drive. Getting a 3 and out to start the game and then a nice drive for points changes the WHOLE game. It does.
RE: Last night  
NYSports1 : 10/16/2017 11:18 am : link
In comment 13651606 WillVAB said:
Quote:
The Giants played the best defense in the AFC, arguably the entire NFL.

They had practice squad guys playing WR vs the no fly zone.

The OL pushed around Denver's front and ran the ball extremely well. Better than Dallas or anyone else fared so far this year. Pass pro was very solid -- Von Miller made what, one play?

Eli and the passing game moved the ball enough to chew clock and keep the defense honest.

They didn't score 30, but they coached and played a very good game. They played with an 80s Giants identity, and they'll be in every game going forward if they can maintain that level of play.


So you expect all future opponents to NOT be up for the Giants?
The offense certainly didn't light the world on fire  
Chris684 : 10/16/2017 11:21 am : link
But it did look much healthier than at any point so far this season I thought.

Whateve they did last night, they did with WRs off the street, new playcaller and reshuffled o-line.

Not bad.
RE: Only thing that felt different was that  
clatterbuck : 10/16/2017 11:23 am : link
In comment 13651583 NYSports1 said:
Quote:
The defense played up to its potential even if it was vs a scrub qb and a team who absolutely overlooked us. The offense to me did nothing...Scored under 20 again. Played with zero pressure due to how great the defense was. Ran well but a couple of those runs led to bulk of yards. I did not see anything from the offense except they did not turn the ball over and got out of the way of the defense. I do not expect the Giants defense to play that well for many games except if the qb sucks


For the most part, offensive line won the physical battle which is the first time this has happened in a long time. The offense (narrowly) won time of possession and played exactly the kind of game it needed, considering the WR situation. One of the key plays, imo, was the first down run on third down in the series after the goal line stand. Not taking anything away from the great team defense last night but Semien is the least of the QBs we've faced and so far. I think he has to play with the lead to be effective and he never had that opportunity. I don't think you can underestimate the importance of the offensive line not getting blown up.
RE: Defense played that bend  
clatterbuck : 10/16/2017 11:25 am : link
In comment 13651615 Simms11 said:
Quote:
but not break D. Kept them out of the End zone which was huge. They still gave up way too many deep catches to Thomas. The safety needs to do a better job there. A guy like Thomas needs to be doubled. Also Spags blitzed more with effective results. JPP played his best game of year. The Giants need to figure out a better way to cover TEs and RBs because Robinson is not getting it done this year and RBs and TEs are killing us every game. It will be more of the same this week with Graham and company coming to town!


Fwiw, I thought Robinson played well last night in coverage.
Don't look at the points  
eclipz928 : 10/16/2017 11:27 am : link
The defense played better no doubt, but the offense was much better because they were able to run the ball and control the tempo of the game. If they were running the ball like that from Week 1, the Giants would be 5-1 right now.
Agree with Greg  
Marty866b : 10/16/2017 11:28 am : link
But I give a lot of the credit to Harrison and the guys in the middle. Denver is a running team and the Giants completely shutdown the Broncos running game. Harrison was all over the place last night in what I believe was easily his best game all year. We forced Simien(a backup qb in my opinion)to throw the ball 50 times.The offense did enough but the best thing that they did was NOT turn the ball over.
Denver is the best defense in the league  
Vanzetti : 10/16/2017 11:32 am : link
and the Giants OL won the battle at the line of scrimmage. With no WRs, they knew the Giants were going to run the ball and they still couldn't stop it.

Giants D played well but they were going against a much less formidable unit.


the diff is, we won the battle in the trenches  
Dave : 10/16/2017 11:42 am : link
on both sides of the line.

Every  
ryanmkeane : 10/16/2017 11:49 am : link
game is different. Some folks just can't accept winning a clean game soundly because the offense didn't march up and down the field on every drive, let alone without our 3 best receivers.

Considering the circumstances, the opponent, and our roster, we literally did everything right last night and won by 13. What else is there to say?
RE: Agree with Greg  
spike : 10/16/2017 11:50 am : link
In comment 13651710 Marty866b said:
Quote:
But I give a lot of the credit to Harrison and the guys in the middle. Denver is a running team and the Giants completely shutdown the Broncos running game. Harrison was all over the place last night in what I believe was easily his best game all year. We forced Simien(a backup qb in my opinion)to throw the ball 50 times.The offense did enough but the best thing that they did was NOT turn the ball over.


Yup the Broncos are better off with Kapernick. Same with Green Bay
game was a perfect illustration....  
BillKo : 10/16/2017 12:03 pm : link
of controlling the LOS, both sides.

We ran the ball effectively, had some big pops. And limited their run game.

While we love drafting the shiney parts such as WR, last night shows you how you can win games in the NFL.

Again, my biggest fear is Flowers. Improving? Enough? Are we settling at a important position such as LT?
In all honesty, I'd hold off on the parade for either unit at this  
jcn56 : 10/16/2017 12:06 pm : link
point. Which isn't to say that I'm not thrilled they won - I am, although still befuddled about where that play has been all year.

That was one game, though - coming off a bye week at home, against a wounded animal, likely a game they didn't take too seriously given the lopsidedness of the matchup (Denver's strong D vs our banged up WR corps and OL gang that can't shoot straight).

If they do it a few more times, then I'll call the marching band.
I don't expect them to finish the season with a good record.  
Britt in VA : 10/16/2017 12:08 pm : link
Winning was nice, but in reality, last night may have been the highlight of the season.
Play calling and Special Team decision helped the D  
bumpsinthenight : 10/16/2017 12:17 pm : link
as well.

I think not being consumed by playing calling allowed Mac to have greater perspective of the overall flow of the game. The D on occasions has been left out to dry by going for it on 4th and giving up short fields.

In previous matchups plenty of points were left on the field and Defense aready gassed from offense playing hurry up and not getting time to recover in between possessions, only to come back out to defend a short field.

Taking the field goals and punting had as much to do with this win as offensive and defensive.
RE: In other words...  
JOrthman : 10/16/2017 12:34 pm : link
In comment 13651513 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
if you swapped the offensive production in the fourth quarter with the first quarter, it would have felt almost exactly like the other games. We wouldn't be gloating today, but feeling like we stole one that Denver gave away.


Yes but I would add that swapping production as you say, means the D has more in the 4th quarter instead of being worn down by the time the 4th quarter hits.
That had a whole lot more 2008 Giants Browns feel to it  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/16/2017 12:40 pm : link
Than any kind of sustainable plan to win games with.
Considering the circumstances  
hassan : 10/16/2017 1:02 pm : link
And the fact they were able to get a lead and control clock and field position against a powerful defense .......... it was a much better effort than prior outings from the offense even if some of the stats smell the same.

A case of how you can lie with statistics in football .....





RE: That had a whole lot more 2008 Giants Browns feel to it  
Greg from LI : 10/16/2017 1:13 pm : link
In comment 13651882 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Than any kind of sustainable plan to win games with.


That game was like the Twilight Zone. They allowed 454 yards to the sorryass Browns and no more than 371 yards in any other game! 310 passing yards to Derek freaking Anderson. Only two passers threw for more than 245 yards on that defense, and the other one was Kurt Warner and the SB-bound Cardinals.
Complimentary football  
gmen9892 : 10/16/2017 1:52 pm : link
The offense played serviceable football, got first downs, kept the defense off the field. That is a HUGE reason why the defense wasnt worn down like it has been in the previous 3 games where it has given up the lead. You wont have one without the other. That first drive of the game, even though it only ended up with 3 points, was a thing of beauty.

Also, special teams. Wing had his best game of the season and was consistently driving the Broncos back to where they were not starting off with great field position.
Incorrect.  
Keith : 10/16/2017 1:53 pm : link
The difference in this game was our ability to run the ball which changed everything.
...  
christian : 10/16/2017 2:00 pm : link
Give credit to the offense for also not having a game choking turn over on their side of the field this week. That was a major plus.
RE: I have a theory on the sudden defensive improvement  
PerpetualNervousness : 10/16/2017 2:22 pm : link
In comment 13651641 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Maybe Simien just isn't as good as Winston, Dak, Wentz, Rivers, or Stafford? He made 2 bigger, and relatively unforced, turnovers than all 5 of the others put together while also lacking their arm talent to threaten downfield. The only way he was able to get the ball downfield was by letting Thomas win 50-50 balls and once the WR's and OL got banged up he's just not good enough to overcome that.

That's not to say I disagree with the point that if the defense played this well the team would be 4-2 or 5-1 because they would. If JPP played the way he did last night they'd have at least 1 more win. Part of them playing better likely also related to playing from ahead instead of from behind all game. Both units played their cleanest game of the season and that combination complimented each other's success. The offense's improvement from the Dallas game without OBJ to last night was glaring though, and I consider that the most noteworthy development.


this is spot on. and also Denver's doesn't have a real TE threat. agree that the D played better, but I'm not sure they took the leap a lot of folks thought they did. no doubt getting the lead early helped. but also got the sort of breaks they haven't been getting this season. think of the play where simien had charles wide open in the flat and just didn't get the ball there.
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