Some on here have been chirping for the Giants to run the ball more. Last night, Sully never abandoned the run, even after minimum yardage was gained. It was awesome to see us run plays from under center, and out of TE heavy formations. It was real refreshing. Wish we had done this with some healthy WRs!
If we're down to Seattle this week, I'd wager we'll end up with the rushing numbers that we've grown accustomed to.
The play calling on the run game was far more diverse. There were runs between the tackles but also many runs outside the tackles.
Both Pugh and Flowers were able to create movement and seal the edges.
The player who was really good in the run game was Jones.
He was constantly holding his ground and contributing to combo blocks with both guards.
It was nice to see seal blocks by Jerry.
Everything flowed from the Giants’ use of the 12 personnel package, which features one running back, two tight ends, and two receivers. The vast majority of the NFL, including the Giants up to this point, primarily uses the 11 personnel (one running back, one tight end, three WRs). But last night, the Giants trotted out the 12 personnel on 72 percent of snaps. As ESPN’s Jordan Raanan notes, the NFL average is around 19 percent."
Maybe Ben McAdoo's Play-Calling Was The Problem - ( New Window )
Everything flowed from the Giants’ use of the 12 personnel package, which features one running back, two tight ends, and two receivers. The vast majority of the NFL, including the Giants up to this point, primarily uses the 11 personnel (one running back, one tight end, three WRs). But last night, the Giants trotted out the 12 personnel on 72 percent of snaps. As ESPN’s Jordan Raanan notes, the NFL average is around 19 percent." Maybe Ben McAdoo's Play-Calling Was The Problem - ( New Window )
TOP is meaningless. The number of plays a team runs shows who is controlling the ball.
The play calling on the run game was far more diverse. There were runs between the tackles but also many runs outside the tackles.
Both Pugh and Flowers were able to create movement and seal the edges.
The player who was really good in the run game was Jones.
He was constantly holding his ground and contributing to combo blocks with both guards.
It was nice to see seal blocks by Jerry.
Agree with this 100%. It drove me nuts how few plays McAdoo used in the run game. Sullivan may not have accomplished much as an OC, but he comes from the Coughlin tree. He knows what a full Running game looks like, schematically.
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"Through the first five weeks, the Giants were 70:30 in passes to rushes; last night, the ratio was 57:43. That allowed them to win the time-of-possession battle despite running 19 fewer plays than did Denver.
Everything flowed from the Giants’ use of the 12 personnel package, which features one running back, two tight ends, and two receivers. The vast majority of the NFL, including the Giants up to this point, primarily uses the 11 personnel (one running back, one tight end, three WRs). But last night, the Giants trotted out the 12 personnel on 72 percent of snaps. As ESPN’s Jordan Raanan notes, the NFL average is around 19 percent." Maybe Ben McAdoo's Play-Calling Was The Problem - ( New Window )
TOP is meaningless. The number of plays a team runs shows who is controlling the ball.
TOP is meaningless in College Ball, not in the NFL. We helped our defense stay rested, and grinded it out on the ground.
For instance, Denver had the ball for more snaps, but they surely went 3 and out more often then our offense did. So they had more plays, and we ate more time.
Last season at Washington, week 17... Perk ran for 102 yards.
Over the final 4 regular season games last year, Perk and Jennings averaged 15 carries per game EACH. This idea that Mac never called running plays is foolish.
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when was last time a Giants RB ran for over 100 yards?
Last season at Washington, week 17... Perk ran for 102 yards.
Over the final 4 regular season games last year, Perk and Jennings averaged 15 carries per game EACH. This idea that Mac never called running plays is foolish.
In the beginning of this season it certainly wasn't true. Our starting RB got 14 carries between the first 2 games. Also, he failed to try to run the ball out of 12 personnel.
In the beginning of this season it certainly wasn't true. Our starting RB got 14 carries between the first 2 games. Also, he failed to try to run the ball out of 12 personnel.
That tends to happen when you're trailing 98% of a game.
Are you certain that Sully runs the offense exactly the same way if he has a healthy supply of WRs? I think whoever was calling the plays last night was going to have to use a bevy of 2 TE formations/plays and feature Evan Engram. ITA that we should've used more 2 TE sets, but that was mostly a result of me completely souring on Brandon Marshall.
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In the beginning of this season it certainly wasn't true. Our starting RB got 14 carries between the first 2 games. Also, he failed to try to run the ball out of 12 personnel.
That tends to happen when you're trailing 98% of a game.
Are you certain that Sully runs the offense exactly the same way if he has a healthy supply of WRs? I think whoever was calling the plays last night was going to have to use a bevy of 2 TE formations/plays and feature Evan Engram. ITA that we should've used more 2 TE sets, but that was mostly a result of me completely souring on Brandon Marshall.
Let's take the Dallas game for instance. Their Dfensive front was depleted from suspensions. Our gameplan was to trot out in 11 personnel and throw into their zone coverage. They didn't even try to run the ball. They weren't trailing by much.
Games like last night, open up the play-action pass, force safeties to play in the box, and helps the oline out (the dline can't just pin their ears back and pass rush).
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In comment 13651574 giantfan2000 said:
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when was last time a Giants RB ran for over 100 yards?
Last season at Washington, week 17... Perk ran for 102 yards.
Over the final 4 regular season games last year, Perk and Jennings averaged 15 carries per game EACH. This idea that Mac never called running plays is foolish.
In the beginning of this season it certainly wasn't true. Our starting RB got 14 carries between the first 2 games. Also, he failed to try to run the ball out of 12 personnel.
Certainly true for the beginning of the season, but definitely not the case for the last three weeks
THIS ^^^^^^^^
I think Perkins had a 100-yard game towards the end of last year, didnt he?
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which has not been the case very often this season.
THIS ^^^^^^^^
And the changes in the O-line appears to have been a big factor in last night's running success. Fans, who of course know absolutely nothing, have been clammoring for the very changes that were used last night. Sorry, but I don't buy into the mantra that the coaches are geniuses and the fans know nothing. I've seen too many times where changes called for by the fans worked out much better than what the coaches were stubbornly sticking with.
[quote] In comment 13651574 giantfan2000 said:
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when was last time a Giants RB ran for over 100 yards?
I think Perkins had a 100-yard game towards the end of last year, didnt he? [/quote
He looked like he was progressing a lot. That's why he had first crack at the starting job. People forget really quickly that there's usually a good explanation for why coaches do what they do.
This season - complete garbage. I get that the OL was a factor, but it was the same OL, it can't be used to justify the complete dropoff. Very bizarre.
The fact is the Giants actually rushed for more yardage the previous week than they did this week (152 yds. vs. 148 yds.).
They also had a much better rushing YPC last week (6.0 yds. vs. 4.6 yds.)
They also had more total yards last week (335 yds. vs. 266 yds.)
And the Offense scored more points the previous week too (22 vs. 16...remember, Jackrabbit had a TD last night).
There were no turnovers this week, which was great, and I understand that the quality of the WRs for at least a portion of the game was far superior last week. But to me the biggest difference between last week and last night is the play of the Defense.
Three turnovers this week and one score by the D makes the offense seem new and improved, when it really wasn't.
I applaud the play calling change and hope it works out, but let's not pretend that we've gone from suck city to greatness, when the previous week's offensive stats were actually better.
If you want to give a game ball to a coordinator, it should go to Spags, not Sully.
Two times in the fourth quarter the Giants had the lead and the ball. Both times they ran the ball on first down, both times for positive yardage. Once, they got 3 yards, the other time they got 6. What did they do both times afterward? They passed on 2nd and 3rd downs for incompletes and sacks, going 3 and out both times. Failed to eat clock. Failed to maintain field position advantage. This time? Still went three and out with the lead, but stayed committed to the run and ate up the clock.
I don't know who to blame for this. I'm afraid it might be Eli, who I believe has control at the LOS to switch run/pass as he sees fit. Either way, not really important right now who was to blame for abandoning the run in the past. It's important that they appeared to have learned a lesson.
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"Through the first five weeks, the Giants were 70:30 in passes to rushes; last night, the ratio was 57:43. That allowed them to win the time-of-possession battle despite running 19 fewer plays than did Denver.
Everything flowed from the Giants’ use of the 12 personnel package, which features one running back, two tight ends, and two receivers. The vast majority of the NFL, including the Giants up to this point, primarily uses the 11 personnel (one running back, one tight end, three WRs). But last night, the Giants trotted out the 12 personnel on 72 percent of snaps. As ESPN’s Jordan Raanan notes, the NFL average is around 19 percent." Maybe Ben McAdoo's Play-Calling Was The Problem - ( New Window )
TOP is meaningless. The number of plays a team runs shows who is controlling the ball.
If you're running a large number of plays, aren't you controlling the clock?
Unless this is from the Chip Kelly school of football......where you just run plays as quickly as you can.
TOP is huge in the NFL. Unless you're turning the ball over or giving up big plays, TOP usually dictates who is going to win the game.
The fact is the Giants actually rushed for more yardage the previous week than they did this week (152 yds. vs. 148 yds.).
They also had a much better rushing YPC last week (6.0 yds. vs. 4.6 yds.)
They also had more total yards last week (335 yds. vs. 266 yds.)
And the Offense scored more points the previous week too (22 vs. 16...remember, Jackrabbit had a TD last night).
There were no turnovers this week, which was great, and I understand that the quality of the WRs for at least a portion of the game was far superior last week. But to me the biggest difference between last week and last night is the play of the Defense.
Three turnovers this week and one score by the D makes the offense seem new and improved, when it really wasn't.
I applaud the play calling change and hope it works out, but let's not pretend that we've gone from suck city to greatness, when the previous week's offensive stats were actually better.
If you want to give a game ball to a coordinator, it should go to Spags, not Sully.
Difference here is that Denver's Defense is miles ahead of the Charger's defense.
Also we were running the ball from under center a hell of a lot more then from the shotgun.
Don't really want to keep bashing McAdoo, but in similar situations, he most likely would've abandoned the run, resulting in Eli throwing 40 times, a couple INTs, poor TOP and a tired D.
Two times in the fourth quarter the Giants had the lead and the ball. Both times they ran the ball on first down, both times for positive yardage. Once, they got 3 yards, the other time they got 6. What did they do both times afterward? They passed on 2nd and 3rd downs for incompletes and sacks, going 3 and out both times. Failed to eat clock. Failed to maintain field position advantage. This time? Still went three and out with the lead, but stayed committed to the run and ate up the clock.
I don't know who to blame for this. I'm afraid it might be Eli, who I believe has control at the LOS to switch run/pass as he sees fit. Either way, not really important right now who was to blame for abandoning the run in the past. It's important that they appeared to have learned a lesson.
Instead of focusing on run versus pass, focus on the execution (or lack thereof) of those plays when they threw after runs. On BOTH 2nd down plays you mention, Eli Manning threw the ball over the head of an open receiver (Gallman and Odell). One play ended up losing yards because of the errant throw and the other ended up with Odell's season being finished. If those plays are executed properly, they get positive yardage and the clock continues to run. Whether they run or pass, they have to execute the basics of football. The coach can only call the play... he can't make the throw or catch the ball.
Instead of focusing on run versus pass, focus on the execution (or lack thereof) of those plays when they threw after runs. On BOTH 2nd down plays you mention, Eli Manning threw the ball over the head of an open receiver (Gallman and Odell). One play ended up losing yards because of the errant throw and the other ended up with Odell's season being finished. If those plays are executed properly, they get positive yardage and the clock continues to run. Whether they run or pass, they have to execute the basics of football. The coach can only call the play... he can't make the throw or catch the ball.
I've long said that the biggest problem with this team is execution. As BBI said the offense was too simple, that Eli was done, or that Coach McAdoo has lost the team, my concern has been with execution.
Having said that, there's a reason why you run the ball with regularity late in games with a lead. The clock is your friend, and you want to keep it running. Even great passing teams only execute everything perfectly 70% of the time. It's important to keep the clock running.
In the game last week, the Giants had done a good job running the ball against a bad Chargers run defense. The best strategy would have been to run the ball. What did the Chargers do that caused us to abandon the run?
This season - complete garbage. I get that the OL was a factor, but it was the same OL, it can't be used to justify the complete dropoff. Very bizarre.
My best guess of the diff this year is, our staff had the chance to "coach him up." As per usual, once our coaches get there hands on a young player, his performance usually tilts downward....