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Has any reporter asked the coaches why Fluker hasn't played

pjcas18 : 10/16/2017 10:30 am
much until the past couple games?

He absolutely blew up the DE (Gotsis?) on that 47 yard Darkwa run.

and he had a good block on the run from the Giants goal line (or was that Jones?) after the 4th down stop to essentially seal the game.

I know fans always think they know what's best for the team, but when the guy fans have been wondering about being an improvement actually gets in the game and is an improvement I think it's worth asking.

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You can hide one guy with a weakness  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/16/2017 11:20 am : link
But the issue with the line was that there were multiple guys giving up heavy pressure. Three games now the interior has been better with Jones in there. You couldn't have had Richburg and Fluker just like Richburg and Jerry didn't work.
I'd still like to see Flowers permanent position at RT  
Earl the goat : 10/16/2017 11:28 am : link
Either get a LT via draft or FA or give Wheeler a shot

Future line

Wheeler. Pugh. Jones. Fluker Flowers
Run and road grade to the right
RE: pjcas18  
pjcas18 : 10/16/2017 11:31 am : link
In comment 13651682 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
As long as they were going to play Hart at RT, it always had to be Jerry versus Fluker.

Again, fans are being a bit selective in their memory with Jerry. He wasn't an issue in pass pro last year. The issue was the outside tackles.

I'm not a fan of Jerry's. I'm merely explaining why.

Next week if Fluker gives up two sacks, I guarantee you there will be threads about how much Fluker sucks.

(See last week with the negative Engram threads and today the positive ones... we tend to over-react to only the last game).


I made no comments about Jerry, so no I'm not being selective with anything.

I guess in the end my criticism was about Hart (and possibly even Richburg).

If Hart was the weak link he should have been replaced sooner.

the OL configuration of Flowers, Jerry, Jones, Fluker, and Pugh is probably the best we've seen against a top rated defense in years.

And if Fluker allows two sacks next week it doesn't change the fact his blocking contributed in a significant way to opening up running lanes the Giants running backs haven't seen in a long time.
Eric hit the nail on the head on Jerry  
jcn56 : 10/16/2017 11:40 am : link
following an offseason of work in that OL camp, he came back with a vengeance last season and actually looked serviceable. Not great - but for a guy who gets paid like a mediocre player, he offered mediocre play.

He regressed big time this year. I think they were hoping he'd snap back to 2016, but he proved that 2016 was just a contract year fluke.
Hart and Richburg were just handed jobs  
Vanzetti : 10/16/2017 11:41 am : link
Both of them were completely awful this year, after being awful last year.

I think the reason is that the Giants were fixated on this idea that the OL was going to grow together and for the sake of continuity and maturation they had to have the same guys playing together.

It is important to stick to a plan to give it time to come to fruition. But you also have to know when to abandon a plan. Giants waited too long.
I liked last night's OL line up.  
Section331 : 10/16/2017 11:41 am : link
Sure, they struggled a bit in pass pro, but the Broncos are the best in the league at rushing the passer, and the previous line up was just as bad in pass pro, and FAR worse run blocking.

I still don't get John Jerry, even cats are jealous of how many lives he has.
what a fucking block that was  
sinister_bee98 : 10/16/2017 11:42 am : link
Say what you will about Fluker, but he's about the last guy in the world you'd want to face in that situation. Holy hell
I don't think  
ryanmkeane : 10/16/2017 11:42 am : link
Richburg has been bad this year, in fact I think he's been pretty competent, but certainly not great. I'd take it easy with the "Jones is better" talk.
Run the ball more  
Fish : 10/16/2017 11:43 am : link
and less pressure on Eli. Hides Flukers or Jerrys warts.
the key is having a plan  
sinister_bee98 : 10/16/2017 11:46 am : link
You can't play Fluker and drop back 45 times.
We made the inside handoff a key play and played close to the vest, focusing on physicality. (Like they did at Alabama.) Fluker can be an asset in that style of game.
need to get more play action going  
mdc1 : 10/16/2017 11:52 am : link
with this limited offense at the receiving corp.
RE: ...  
SHO'NUFF : 10/16/2017 11:54 am : link
In comment 13651612 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
...combined with Jerry's contract/already starter status probably caused them to favor him.


This is a horseshit reason to keep playing Jerry.
RE: I don't think  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/16/2017 11:58 am : link
In comment 13651739 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Richburg has been bad this year, in fact I think he's been pretty competent, but certainly not great. I'd take it easy with the "Jones is better" talk.


The results seem pretty easy to see. They have been significantly more productive running the ball over three games facing good to really good defensive fronts.
At least you can see that Fluker does SOMETHING well.  
Heisenberg : 10/16/2017 11:59 am : link
the difference between him and Jerry on the pass blocking side is hard to gauge because they've both struggled. Jerry has the rep as the better pass blocker but he hasn't shown it this year.

But Fluker was impressive on the run blocking side of the game and Fluker and Pugh together were especially good, I thought.

And Jones was good too. Made me wonder if Richburg has been hurt all year and the coaches just waited too long to make this switch.

the better question is  
djm : 10/16/2017 11:59 am : link
why the Giants all but ignored the two and three TE set. This team was begging for that kind of formation since first minute of the first game. I still can't understand wtf McAdoo was thinking.

Eric, the pancake  
CT Charlie : 10/16/2017 12:04 pm : link
deserves its own thread. Share the joy.
100% agree with you, Goat ....  
Manny in CA : 10/16/2017 12:21 pm : link

About Flowers to Right tackle ...

This is what I've been saying, since way-back in Preseason - that the O-line has the players on the roster capable of doing the job, but that they're just mis-placed.

It was only the injuries to (the struggling) Bobby Hart & Richburg that FORCED the issue - Pugh to Right tackle and Jerry to Left Guard, Jones to center, Fluker to RG and wah-la, things got better !

And yes, Wheeler to left tackle (he's quicker and better feet that Flowers); I want to see it. Remember when we had the "Bruise Brothers" on the right side - (McKinzie & Snee), !
RE: but  
Simms11 : 10/16/2017 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13651651 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
here's some pancakes for you this morning. :) https://twitter.com/JefferyFootie/status/919762048506048518 - ( New Window )


I love how Fluker pancakes the Dlineman and then proceeds to jump over him. Boy was that a sight!
RE: RE: ...  
Beer Man : 10/16/2017 12:59 pm : link
In comment 13651769 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
In comment 13651612 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


...combined with Jerry's contract/already starter status probably caused them to favor him.



This is a horseshit reason to keep playing Jerry.
Yes it is, but Mac & Cheese and Reese's Pieces both have their asses in the hot seat for dumb decisions like this
RE: RE: but  
Beer Man : 10/16/2017 1:03 pm : link
In comment 13651843 Simms11 said:
Quote:
In comment 13651651 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


here's some pancakes for you this morning. :) https://twitter.com/JefferyFootie/status/919762048506048518 - ( New Window )



I love how Fluker pancakes the Dlineman and then proceeds to jump over him. Boy was that a sight!
How would you like to be that D-linemen watching the game tapes with the team this week. "Hey dude, did you get the licence plate number of the truck that ran you over?"
It's kinda simple  
Carson53 : 10/16/2017 1:09 pm : link
they gave Jerry, a 3 yr/10.5 mill deal, w/3.5 GTD.
I stated this more than once, they re-signed the guy,
so he was going to start. I think they finally came to the conclusion that Hart actually does suck, so Pugh at RT again.
Hence, Fluker gets his chance to start.
RE: At least you can see that Fluker does SOMETHING well.  
Carson53 : 10/16/2017 1:11 pm : link
In comment 13651783 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
the difference between him and Jerry on the pass blocking side is hard to gauge because they've both struggled. Jerry has the rep as the better pass blocker but he hasn't shown it this year.

But Fluker was impressive on the run blocking side of the game and Fluker and Pugh together were especially good, I thought.

And Jones was good too. Made me wonder if Richburg has been hurt all year and the coaches just waited too long to make this switch.


At least the guy is physical, can't say that about one other
member of this O Line!
I'd still like to see Flowers permanent position at RT  
Earl the goat : 10/16/2017 1:21 pm : link
Either get a LT via draft or FA or give Wheeler a shot

Future line

Wheeler. Pugh. Jones. Fluker Flowers
Run and road grade to the right
Guess you didn't read my post, Earl ...  
Manny in CA : 10/16/2017 1:28 pm : link

YES !
Pass blocking is inherently harder to gauge  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/16/2017 1:35 pm : link
By eye. The act of pass blocking is fundamentally different in every way and isn't given to eye-popping play. Good pass blocking lines are invisible. Good run blocking plays look violent and active.
RE: ...  
Matt M. : 10/16/2017 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13651612 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Solari was interviewed on Thursday. The transcript is on the front page.

My guess is what Sy and I have been talking about... Jerry is the better pass blocker, Fluker the better run blocker. And Fluker's inability to deal with stunts combined with Jerry's contract/already starter status probably caused them to favor him.
But, Jerry hasn't handled stunts in 3 years here. Fluker is absolutely a flawed player. But, I think Jerry has already proven to be more flawed.
This blows a hole in the "coaches always know best"  
Glover : 10/16/2017 1:39 pm : link
argument. Flowers has thankfully pulled himself out of his funk and is playing like he belongs at LT. Hart never did, Jerry never did, but according to the coaching staff, Fluker either was a has been or a never was. Pugh did a very good job on one of the best pass rushers in the game, but everyone here had him etched in stone at LG.

Right now, whether it be Richburg or Jones, replace Jerry with somebody good, and the Giants actually have an offensive line that may be above average.

Macadoo finally let a bit of his ego go by letting Sullivan handle the play calling, perhaps 3 weeks late, but better than never. And by way of injury, the O line gets shuffled and suddenly looks professional.

The coaches know best argument has been really weak this entire offseason, time to put it to bed. I dont want to hear it anymore. It no longer shuts down any counter argument.
RE: ...  
feelflows : 10/16/2017 1:43 pm : link
In comment 13651612 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Solari was interviewed on Thursday. The transcript is on the front page.

My guess is what Sy and I have been talking about... Jerry is the better pass blocker, Fluker the better run blocker. And Fluker's inability to deal with stunts combined with Jerry's contract/already starter status probably caused them to favor him.


It's a good debate.

I think that having the better RUN BLOCKING OL on the field is more important. Besides controlling more of the Time of Possession, it also adds the best PASS BLOCKER to the field.. the play action pass.

It's not like Eli could have a tea party back there, anyway.. have the best run blockers out there, and mix up the plays and play action. ELI will have more time, and the ball will be moved more efficiently on the ground.

feelflows  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/16/2017 1:57 pm : link
It does if you are going to run the ball. But McAdoo's game-plans were heavily pass-centric. Just look at the run-pass ratios.

He's a run blocking OL  
old man : 10/16/2017 2:01 pm : link
Our quasi WCO is pass oriented .
Yesterday our game plan was to run, especially given it was the first game without our top 3-4 WRs.
That was his game to shine, so to speak, and did well.
Hopefully another week of practice with WRs will let us pass attempt more to take pressure off the run and keep Hawks D guessing.
RE: feelflows  
feelflows : 10/16/2017 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13652042 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
It does if you are going to run the ball. But McAdoo's game-plans were heavily pass-centric. Just look at the run-pass ratios.


I know it.

Maybe if Sully is taking over, they can maintain the almost 2:1 ratio of Run:Pass.

he's a terrible pass blocker  
PerpetualNervousness : 10/16/2017 2:16 pm : link
there's a reason he was let go by SD. the giants only dropped back 22 times and denver still got 3 sacks. there aren't a lot of games this team is going to win throwing the ball that infrequently
Fluker  
pjcas18 : 10/16/2017 2:25 pm : link
was being paid $8.8M this year by the Chargers, he was not only let go because of his play.

and one of the sacks wasn't even on Fluker, it looked like Miller bull rushed Pugh, Eli stepped up into the pocket and Miller caught him.

I'm not saying Fluker played well in pass protection, but my point was John Jerry wasn't exactly Marshall Yanda at RG, in fact every game there was highlights of Jerry's poor play, and Hart's (and Richburg's and Flowers').

So by shuffling the line this way, it seems they can take advantage of more individual strengths than prior alignments.

Doesn't matter, just hope the line continues to gel, individuals improve and the line as a whole does too, and maybe determine if the Giants should make an effort to keep Pugh, probably not Richburg though unless he does something the second half+ different than the rest of 2017.
Learning the new system  
JonC : 10/16/2017 3:12 pm : link
and he's still breaking down versus stunts up front, thus the coaches ran with the devil they know, until injuries forced their hand.
Big Indictment...  
TyreeHelmet : 10/16/2017 3:34 pm : link
On the coaching staff that it took until Week 6 to figure out this o line combo.
RE: he's a terrible pass blocker  
giants#1 : 10/16/2017 3:51 pm : link
In comment 13652069 PerpetualNervousness said:
Quote:
there's a reason he was let go by SD. the giants only dropped back 22 times and denver still got 3 sacks. there aren't a lot of games this team is going to win throwing the ball that infrequently


Eh, the protection was solid yesterday. The problem was outside of Engram, none of the WRs can create any separation (not unexpected with the top 4 guys out).
RE: RE: Wait...since when can Jerry handle stunts, either?  
djstat : 10/16/2017 4:57 pm : link
In comment 13651644 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13651617 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


John Jerry is right there with Greg Bishop as the worst lineman I've ever seen start for multiple years.



Jerry has had his issues, but he actually was a decent lineman in 2016... one of the reasons the Giants mistakenly gave him a new contract. Fluker looks great and can maul in the ground game, but his inability to handle stunts at all (Sy referenced this in his last game review) is borderline absurd.

It's probably why San Diego gave up on him.

If the Giants are going to go with a more run-oriented offense from here on out, it makes sense for Fluker to play. But McAdoo was throwing the football what? 60, 70 percent of snaps?
If they run the ball and can actually use play action it will mitigate Fluker's pass issues.
OL played well yesterday  
TMS : 10/16/2017 5:16 pm : link
and deserves credit. We have great size and power there but not much technique except for Pugh and Richburg, who are undersized. If we can modify our offense according to those realities in the future, we might have something here at last. Always thought you have to adjust your game plan to the abilities of you assets. Thats what Belicek and NE do every year. MO
Jerry hasn't been any better handlign stunts  
UberAlias : 10/16/2017 6:10 pm : link
And he's been in this system for a couple years now.

The criticism is not that Fluker wasn't starting. The issue is that McAdoo failed to generate any competition for any of last year's starters, despite low performance. Starters got virtually all the 1st team reps throughout camp, even after poor performance in PS.

The bar was set low and poor performance accepted with any criticism deflected.
perhaps because  
HomerJones45 : 10/16/2017 6:26 pm : link
Manning got sacked three times on only 19 passes. You can get away with anything for 3 or 4 games until the opposition gets some film to break down tendencies and reactions. I am not sold on either Jones or Fluker yet.
RE: Jerry hasn't been any better handlign stunts  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/16/2017 7:15 pm : link
In comment 13652278 UberAlias said:
Quote:
And he's been in this system for a couple years now.

The criticism is not that Fluker wasn't starting. The issue is that McAdoo failed to generate any competition for any of last year's starters, despite low performance. Starters got virtually all the 1st team reps throughout camp, even after poor performance in PS.

The bar was set low and poor performance accepted with any criticism deflected.


It's not like they gave him anything to "generate competition" with.

Fluker played in the summer, and he wasn't good. The articles and camp reports are there to be read. Who else did they add? Bisnowaty played a bunch too and he clearly needs a year before they can re-evaluate.
RE: RE: Jerry hasn't been any better handlign stunts  
UberAlias : 10/16/2017 9:22 pm : link
In comment 13652328 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13652278 UberAlias said:


Quote:


And he's been in this system for a couple years now.

The criticism is not that Fluker wasn't starting. The issue is that McAdoo failed to generate any competition for any of last year's starters, despite low performance. Starters got virtually all the 1st team reps throughout camp, even after poor performance in PS.

The bar was set low and poor performance accepted with any criticism deflected.



It's not like they gave him anything to "generate competition" with.

Fluker played in the summer, and he wasn't good. The articles and camp reports are there to be read. Who else did they add? Bisnowaty played a bunch too and he clearly needs a year before they can re-evaluate.
Um except Fluker is starting now and they've looked better with him in there and Jones has played well. And they played well in the PS. Are the likes of Hart and Jerry beyond competition? Seriously?
Was Flowers so spectacular at LT  
UberAlias : 10/16/2017 9:25 pm : link
That he was beyond competition from Pugh?

You've really set the bar low.
Jerry has struggled Flowers has struggled  
UberAlias : 10/16/2017 9:37 pm : link
Hart has struggled. None of them played well enough to be handed a spot no questions asked. Competition is a good thing. Fluker Jones and Wheeler could have all competed.
RE: RE: RE: Jerry hasn't been any better handlign stunts  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/16/2017 10:13 pm : link
In comment 13652544 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 13652328 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13652278 UberAlias said:


Quote:


And he's been in this system for a couple years now.

The criticism is not that Fluker wasn't starting. The issue is that McAdoo failed to generate any competition for any of last year's starters, despite low performance. Starters got virtually all the 1st team reps throughout camp, even after poor performance in PS.

The bar was set low and poor performance accepted with any criticism deflected.



It's not like they gave him anything to "generate competition" with.

Fluker played in the summer, and he wasn't good. The articles and camp reports are there to be read. Who else did they add? Bisnowaty played a bunch too and he clearly needs a year before they can re-evaluate.

Um except Fluker is starting now and they've looked better with him in there and Jones has played well. And they played well in the PS. Are the likes of Hart and Jerry beyond competition? Seriously?


He's starting now after 4 disastrous games. He never earned anything this year despite what people seem to want to believe. People on here complain about guys getting handed jobs, then act like Fluker went out and made a case like he deserved to start. He didn't. Great that he's playing well now. If he played well a month ago, that would have been better.
Except Fluker played well in the PS  
UberAlias : 10/17/2017 11:38 am : link
Arguably as well as anyone on the Oline.

I'm not sure how you can seriously be arguing that it was the correct decision to anoint that initial group of starters with zero competition for them. By what standards had they performed well enough to earn that right?

RB is another position where there should have been more competition.
"Fluker played well in the preseason" is not what was reported  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/17/2017 11:51 am : link
By people who cover the team, neither on this site nor in the media.
RE:  
UberAlias : 10/17/2017 5:12 pm : link
In comment 13653337 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
By people who cover the team, neither on this site nor in the media.
That is not true. And did you watch the game?
Here is a direct quote from one of Sy's reviews  
UberAlias : 10/17/2017 5:21 pm : link
D.J. Fluker graded out better than John Jerry by a wide margin. There will be some thought and discussion surrounding the idea that he should be the starter there, but it’s not happening.
every O lineman has a few warts in his game  
Jersey55 : 10/18/2017 4:45 pm : link
so if Fluker has a few I for one can live with them as long he keeps opening holes in the run game
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