Has any reporter asked the coaches why Fluker hasn't played

at RG all season. He was far from perfect but he did make some excellent blocks both at the POA and on trap plays. Jerry is better LG as his game is more finesse and Fluker is more RG mauler. Pugh is doing a solid job at RT. Jones has done a nice job and Flowers seems to be improving.

Bottom line: Players in the position of their strengths and a commitment to the run. Darkwa and Gallman did a nice job as well.

you'd get a legitimate answer to that question?

asking whether he is smiling

He was still learning the O, and he does get crossed-up on D-line stunts. Then there is Mac, who has been stubborn about reshuffling the OL to give the team the best combination to win. I think last night he let Sullivan take the controls, and this is line-up Sulli wanted.

Solari was interviewed on Thursday. The transcript is on the front page.

My guess is what Sy and I have been talking about... Jerry is the better pass blocker, Fluker the better run blocker. And Fluker's inability to deal with stunts combined with Jerry's contract/already starter status probably caused them to favor him.

John Jerry is right there with Greg Bishop as the worst lineman I've ever seen start for multiple years.

He also let the ball hit the ground too often.

Wide Receivers. And Fluker's concerns are with pass blocking.

In comment 13651617 Greg from LI said:

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John Jerry is right there with Greg Bishop as the worst lineman I've ever seen start for multiple years.

Jerry has had his issues, but he actually was a decent lineman in 2016... one of the reasons the Giants mistakenly gave him a new contract. Fluker looks great and can maul in the ground game, but his inability to handle stunts at all (Sy referenced this in his last game review) is borderline absurd.

It's probably why San Diego gave up on him.

If the Giants are going to go with a more run-oriented offense from here on out, it makes sense for Fluker to play. But McAdoo was throwing the football what? 60, 70 percent of snaps?

here's some pancakes for you this morning. :)
https://twitter.com/JefferyFootie/status/919762048506048518 - ( New Window )

struggles with pass blocking, but excels in run blocking, so he's on the bench?

I've seen every Giants snap this year and I never felt like the Giants have had worse pass blocking in my life than these past few years. Even the 2004 line coined "the worst offensive line in football" by Joe Theismann was better than this line or at worst comparable.

I'd expect the Giants get creative to hide Fluker's pass rush deficiencies by maybe keeping a RB in to chip if he's beaten to the inside on a long developing pass play. a stunt takes a few seconds, so if they fear the stunt they can help limit it.

anyway, just really impressed with him last night on those few plays.

And it doesn't even need to be Fluker vs Jerry since Jerry played last night too.

Obviously Hart is the odd man out, but I feel like by moving Pugh to RT and adding Fluker to RG they have improved two spots on the OL.

Plus, hate to say it but I kind of felt like Jones was at least equal to Richburg.

As long as they were going to play Hart at RT, it always had to be Jerry versus Fluker.

Again, fans are being a bit selective in their memory with Jerry. He wasn't an issue in pass pro last year. The issue was the outside tackles.

I'm not a fan of Jerry's. I'm merely explaining why.

Next week if Fluker gives up two sacks, I guarantee you there will be threads about how much Fluker sucks.

(See last week with the negative Engram threads and today the positive ones... we tend to over-react to only the last game).

But the issue with the line was that there were multiple guys giving up heavy pressure. Three games now the interior has been better with Jones in there. You couldn't have had Richburg and Fluker just like Richburg and Jerry didn't work.

Either get a LT via draft or FA or give Wheeler a shot

Future line

Wheeler. Pugh. Jones. Fluker Flowers
Run and road grade to the right

In comment 13651682 Eric from BBI said:

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As long as they were going to play Hart at RT, it always had to be Jerry versus Fluker. Again, fans are being a bit selective in their memory with Jerry. He wasn't an issue in pass pro last year. The issue was the outside tackles. I'm not a fan of Jerry's. I'm merely explaining why. Next week if Fluker gives up two sacks, I guarantee you there will be threads about how much Fluker sucks. (See last week with the negative Engram threads and today the positive ones... we tend to over-react to only the last game).

I made no comments about Jerry, so no I'm not being selective with anything.

I guess in the end my criticism was about Hart (and possibly even Richburg).

If Hart was the weak link he should have been replaced sooner.

the OL configuration of Flowers, Jerry, Jones, Fluker, and Pugh is probably the best we've seen against a top rated defense in years.

And if Fluker allows two sacks next week it doesn't change the fact his blocking contributed in a significant way to opening up running lanes the Giants running backs haven't seen in a long time.

following an offseason of work in that OL camp, he came back with a vengeance last season and actually looked serviceable. Not great - but for a guy who gets paid like a mediocre player, he offered mediocre play.

He regressed big time this year. I think they were hoping he'd snap back to 2016, but he proved that 2016 was just a contract year fluke.

Both of them were completely awful this year, after being awful last year.

I think the reason is that the Giants were fixated on this idea that the OL was going to grow together and for the sake of continuity and maturation they had to have the same guys playing together.

It is important to stick to a plan to give it time to come to fruition. But you also have to know when to abandon a plan. Giants waited too long.

Sure, they struggled a bit in pass pro, but the Broncos are the best in the league at rushing the passer, and the previous line up was just as bad in pass pro, and FAR worse run blocking.

I still don't get John Jerry, even cats are jealous of how many lives he has.

Say what you will about Fluker, but he's about the last guy in the world you'd want to face in that situation. Holy hell

Richburg has been bad this year, in fact I think he's been pretty competent, but certainly not great. I'd take it easy with the "Jones is better" talk.

and less pressure on Eli. Hides Flukers or Jerrys warts.

You can't play Fluker and drop back 45 times.
We made the inside handoff a key play and played close to the vest, focusing on physicality. (Like they did at Alabama.) Fluker can be an asset in that style of game.

with this limited offense at the receiving corp.

In comment 13651612 Eric from BBI said:

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...combined with Jerry's contract/already starter status probably caused them to favor him.

This is a horseshit reason to keep playing Jerry.

In comment 13651739 ryanmkeane said:

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Richburg has been bad this year, in fact I think he's been pretty competent, but certainly not great. I'd take it easy with the "Jones is better" talk.

The results seem pretty easy to see. They have been significantly more productive running the ball over three games facing good to really good defensive fronts.

the difference between him and Jerry on the pass blocking side is hard to gauge because they've both struggled. Jerry has the rep as the better pass blocker but he hasn't shown it this year.

But Fluker was impressive on the run blocking side of the game and Fluker and Pugh together were especially good, I thought.

And Jones was good too. Made me wonder if Richburg has been hurt all year and the coaches just waited too long to make this switch.

why the Giants all but ignored the two and three TE set. This team was begging for that kind of formation since first minute of the first game. I still can't understand wtf McAdoo was thinking.

deserves its own thread. Share the joy.

About Flowers to Right tackle ...

This is what I've been saying, since way-back in Preseason - that the O-line has the players on the roster capable of doing the job, but that they're just mis-placed.

It was only the injuries to (the struggling) Bobby Hart & Richburg that FORCED the issue - Pugh to Right tackle and Jerry to Left Guard, Jones to center, Fluker to RG and wah-la, things got better !

And yes, Wheeler to left tackle (he's quicker and better feet that Flowers); I want to see it. Remember when we had the "Bruise Brothers" on the right side - (McKinzie & Snee), !

In comment 13651651 Eric from BBI said:

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here's some pancakes for you this morning. :) https://twitter.com/JefferyFootie/status/919762048506048518 - ( New Window )

I love how Fluker pancakes the Dlineman and then proceeds to jump over him. Boy was that a sight!

In comment 13651769 SHO'NUFF said:

Quote:

In comment 13651612 Eric from BBI said: Quote: ...combined with Jerry's contract/already starter status probably caused them to favor him. This is a horseshit reason to keep playing Jerry.

Yes it is, but Mac & Cheese and Reese's Pieces both have their asses in the hot seat for dumb decisions like this

In comment 13651843 Simms11 said:

Quote:

In comment 13651651 Eric from BBI said: Quote: here's some pancakes for you this morning. :) https://twitter.com/JefferyFootie/status/919762048506048518 - ( New Window ) I love how Fluker pancakes the Dlineman and then proceeds to jump over him. Boy was that a sight!

How would you like to be that D-linemen watching the game tapes with the team this week. "Hey dude, did you get the licence plate number of the truck that ran you over?"

they gave Jerry, a 3 yr/10.5 mill deal, w/3.5 GTD.
I stated this more than once, they re-signed the guy,
so he was going to start. I think they finally came to the conclusion that Hart actually does suck, so Pugh at RT again.
Hence, Fluker gets his chance to start.

In comment 13651783 Heisenberg said:

Quote:

the difference between him and Jerry on the pass blocking side is hard to gauge because they've both struggled. Jerry has the rep as the better pass blocker but he hasn't shown it this year. But Fluker was impressive on the run blocking side of the game and Fluker and Pugh together were especially good, I thought. And Jones was good too. Made me wonder if Richburg has been hurt all year and the coaches just waited too long to make this switch.

At least the guy is physical, can't say that about one other
member of this O Line!

Either get a LT via draft or FA or give Wheeler a shot

Future line

Wheeler. Pugh. Jones. Fluker Flowers
Run and road grade to the right

YES !

By eye. The act of pass blocking is fundamentally different in every way and isn't given to eye-popping play. Good pass blocking lines are invisible. Good run blocking plays look violent and active.

In comment 13651612 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Solari was interviewed on Thursday. The transcript is on the front page. My guess is what Sy and I have been talking about... Jerry is the better pass blocker, Fluker the better run blocker. And Fluker's inability to deal with stunts combined with Jerry's contract/already starter status probably caused them to favor him.

But, Jerry hasn't handled stunts in 3 years here. Fluker is absolutely a flawed player. But, I think Jerry has already proven to be more flawed.

argument. Flowers has thankfully pulled himself out of his funk and is playing like he belongs at LT. Hart never did, Jerry never did, but according to the coaching staff, Fluker either was a has been or a never was. Pugh did a very good job on one of the best pass rushers in the game, but everyone here had him etched in stone at LG.

Right now, whether it be Richburg or Jones, replace Jerry with somebody good, and the Giants actually have an offensive line that may be above average.

Macadoo finally let a bit of his ego go by letting Sullivan handle the play calling, perhaps 3 weeks late, but better than never. And by way of injury, the O line gets shuffled and suddenly looks professional.

The coaches know best argument has been really weak this entire offseason, time to put it to bed. I dont want to hear it anymore. It no longer shuts down any counter argument.

In comment 13651612 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Solari was interviewed on Thursday. The transcript is on the front page. My guess is what Sy and I have been talking about... Jerry is the better pass blocker, Fluker the better run blocker. And Fluker's inability to deal with stunts combined with Jerry's contract/already starter status probably caused them to favor him.

It's a good debate.

I think that having the better RUN BLOCKING OL on the field is more important. Besides controlling more of the Time of Possession, it also adds the best PASS BLOCKER to the field.. the play action pass.

It's not like Eli could have a tea party back there, anyway.. have the best run blockers out there, and mix up the plays and play action. ELI will have more time, and the ball will be moved more efficiently on the ground.

It does if you are going to run the ball. But McAdoo's game-plans were heavily pass-centric. Just look at the run-pass ratios.

Our quasi WCO is pass oriented .
Yesterday our game plan was to run, especially given it was the first game without our top 3-4 WRs.
That was his game to shine, so to speak, and did well.
Hopefully another week of practice with WRs will let us pass attempt more to take pressure off the run and keep Hawks D guessing.

In comment 13652042 Eric from BBI said:

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It does if you are going to run the ball. But McAdoo's game-plans were heavily pass-centric. Just look at the run-pass ratios.

I know it.

Maybe if Sully is taking over, they can maintain the almost 2:1 ratio of Run:Pass.

there's a reason he was let go by SD. the giants only dropped back 22 times and denver still got 3 sacks. there aren't a lot of games this team is going to win throwing the ball that infrequently

was being paid $8.8M this year by the Chargers, he was not only let go because of his play.

and one of the sacks wasn't even on Fluker, it looked like Miller bull rushed Pugh, Eli stepped up into the pocket and Miller caught him.

I'm not saying Fluker played well in pass protection, but my point was John Jerry wasn't exactly Marshall Yanda at RG, in fact every game there was highlights of Jerry's poor play, and Hart's (and Richburg's and Flowers').

So by shuffling the line this way, it seems they can take advantage of more individual strengths than prior alignments.

Doesn't matter, just hope the line continues to gel, individuals improve and the line as a whole does too, and maybe determine if the Giants should make an effort to keep Pugh, probably not Richburg though unless he does something the second half+ different than the rest of 2017.

and he's still breaking down versus stunts up front, thus the coaches ran with the devil they know, until injuries forced their hand.

On the coaching staff that it took until Week 6 to figure out this o line combo.

In comment 13652069 PerpetualNervousness said:

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there's a reason he was let go by SD. the giants only dropped back 22 times and denver still got 3 sacks. there aren't a lot of games this team is going to win throwing the ball that infrequently

Eh, the protection was solid yesterday. The problem was outside of Engram, none of the WRs can create any separation (not unexpected with the top 4 guys out).

In comment 13651644 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 13651617 Greg from LI said: Quote: John Jerry is right there with Greg Bishop as the worst lineman I've ever seen start for multiple years. Jerry has had his issues, but he actually was a decent lineman in 2016... one of the reasons the Giants mistakenly gave him a new contract. Fluker looks great and can maul in the ground game, but his inability to handle stunts at all (Sy referenced this in his last game review) is borderline absurd. It's probably why San Diego gave up on him. If the Giants are going to go with a more run-oriented offense from here on out, it makes sense for Fluker to play. But McAdoo was throwing the football what? 60, 70 percent of snaps?

If they run the ball and can actually use play action it will mitigate Fluker's pass issues.

and deserves credit. We have great size and power there but not much technique except for Pugh and Richburg, who are undersized. If we can modify our offense according to those realities in the future, we might have something here at last. Always thought you have to adjust your game plan to the abilities of you assets. Thats what Belicek and NE do every year. MO