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College Player: Saquon Barkley

tbonfig : 10/16/2017 1:19 pm
I never watch any college football but I've obviously heard about this guy. For people that watch more than I do, how good is he? Just watched a highlight reel that stood out more than typical highlight reels. Dude hurdles players at will and seems to have a unique sense of space when running. There were a few plays run straight up the gut with three or four defenders and he shimmies and shakes a little and finds a crease and is out. Damn impressive.
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RE: Someone asked  
feelflows : 10/16/2017 6:37 pm : link
In comment 13652142 blueblood'11 said:
Quote:
Is he an asshole. Well, he played at Whitehall high school in the Lehigh Valley where I live. Whitehall is next door to where I live. Our schools play each other. I had the pleasure of watching many of his games because a lot of them were telecast on local TV. I can tell you this is a good kid who does not have a big head.


You're not a Parkland guy, are you? Hisss
RE: drafting him would be one of the classic blunders  
gmenatlarge : 10/16/2017 6:42 pm : link
In comment 13652040 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The most famous of which is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is never draft a Penn State running back in the first round.


And never get involved with a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!

Well played.
RE: Second best  
Jay in Toronto : 10/16/2017 6:59 pm : link
In comment 13652035 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
running back in the Big Ten, but still quite good.


LOL. A real taylored comment.
I think we need to see him  
mdc1 : 10/16/2017 7:28 pm : link
against better competition. Gotta love those B10 schedules.
RE: RE: RE: I wouldn't take any RB high  
djm : 10/16/2017 7:37 pm : link
In comment 13652129 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13652118 ThreePoints said:


Quote:


In comment 13652110 WillVAB said:


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The value simply isn't there and so many elite RBs are found later in the draft.



Yeah, our three-headed RB monster, all found in later rounds (or not drafted), is really tearing it up.

I hate this mentality. Who's the last playmaker we had at the running back position? David Wilson for one season? Why not go for a home-run pick if we can?



The top RBs in the league were drafted late. The guys picked high who actually pan out is the exception, not the rule. Really the only RBs drafted high recently who one could argue with a straight face rep value are:

Zeke
Fournette
Gurley (debatable)

If the top RBs in the league are consistently found in the 3rd round or later, how in the world does it make sense to draft a RB with a top 10 pick?


You are making shit up. Try again. If RBs can be had in the latter rounds then so can every other position.

The majority of elite rbs in the league were drafted in rounds 1-2-3. Look it up.
RE: RE: Abs  
djm : 10/16/2017 7:40 pm : link
In comment 13652147 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13652139 Jerry K said:


Quote:


It has become a truism for many on BBI that you don't draft a running back high. It's repeated so often that it's rarely challenged. But how many 1st round QBs are busts? How many OL? If the player is good and durable, take him.

Out of the ten leading rushers in the NFL right now, three were number one picks, two were second round picks and one a third.



That's a cherry picked stat. Here's a list of late round RBs around the NFL:

Hunt
Bell
David Johnson (IR)
Demarco Murray
Jordan Howard
Tarik Cohen
Jay Ajayi
Devonta Freeman
Entire Pats backfield
Entire Packers backfield
Redskins backfield


2nd rounders
Dalvin Cook (IR)
Lesean McCoy

The first round guys returning anywhere close to value you can count on one hand:

Ingram (up and down)
Gordon (up and down)
Zeke (is it him or the OL)
Fournette (legit)
Gurley (up and down)


Dude... what... lol
Don't see how this is debatable  
WillVAB : 10/16/2017 8:05 pm : link
First off there's a difference between a first round RB and top 5-10 pick like many are speculating with this kid. I still wouldn't take a RB in the first, but huge difference nonetheless.

Third round isn't a late round pick? There's a hell of a difference between picking someone top 5-10 and around 69-74.

RE: you can say that about any position crowd -- not like the RB position. Every year studs come out of nowhere at the RB position later in the draft. Mccafrey got a ton of hype this year and has clearly been outperformed by Hunt taken two rounds later and Cook a round later pre injury.

Hype doesn't equal value. The talking heads said Reggie Bush was the next Walter Payton and his career didn't come anywhere close to that.
RE: He's the best football player that will be in this draft.  
weaverpsu : 10/16/2017 10:23 pm : link
In comment 13652009 Devon said:
Quote:
They're different backs, but he could do for a team what Fournette is doing for Jacksonville and more.

If the Giants are picking high enough to pick him, they're going to be taking a QB though and rightfully so.


Why would they take a QB? The guys that were supposed to be great have struggled big time so far. We have Eli for 3-4 more years. If we take a QB with our top pick than what happens to Eli in 2 years? Push him out? Everyone says we take a QB but I think that would be a waste just like taking Webb was a total wasted pick.
RE: he reminds me...  
weaverpsu : 10/16/2017 10:24 pm : link
In comment 13652023 outeiroj said:
Quote:
way too much of reggie bush to feel confident he would be worthy of a high first round pick. but if they pulled the trigger i would still support it


I don't see that comparison at all. Different backs.
RE: drafting him would be one of the classic blunders  
weaverpsu : 10/16/2017 10:25 pm : link
In comment 13652040 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The most famous of which is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is never draft a Penn State running back in the first round.


He's the best player in the country. Period.
RE: I think we need to see him  
weaverpsu : 10/16/2017 10:38 pm : link
In comment 13652339 mdc1 said:
Quote:
against better competition. Gotta love those B10 schedules.


Oh please. Wisconsin, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State. Yeah 3 out of top 6 and 5 in the top 20 rankings.
RE: RE: RE: I wouldn't take any RB high  
compton : 10/16/2017 10:42 pm : link
In comment 13652250 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13652237 compton said:


Quote:


In comment 13652110 WillVAB said:


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The value simply isn't there and so many elite RBs are found later in the draft.



Care to name some of these elite RB taken later in the draft?



Just from this year's leader board:

Le'Veon Bell: 2nd round
David Johnson: 3rd round
Jordan Howard: 5th round
Kareem Hunt: 3rd round

Jay Ajayi: 5th round (not sure if elite, but 7th in league this year in rushing yards so far (with his bye behind him and 4th last year)

Devonta Freeman: 4th round


I don't consider 3rd round as a late round pick. So only 3 names on that list I would consider late round picks (4th round and above). Jordan Howard and Devonta Freeman are having a nice season. Jay Ajayi is averaging less than 4 yards a carry. Only one of those players, I would say, is playing at an elite level currently.
We're going 11-5 so this discussion is mute  
PatersonPlank : 10/16/2017 10:54 pm : link
.
Despite coming from a  
B in ALB : 10/16/2017 11:01 pm : link
disgusting institution institution of "higher learning" - representing a foul, deranged, disturbed and completely deluded fan base of mouthbreathing mental defectives - that lied about and turned a blind eye to decades of child rape, molestation and some of the most disgusting crimes in the history of our country, I wouldn't mind Barkley if he's there.
RE: Despite coming from a  
Kyle in NY : 10/16/2017 11:06 pm : link
In comment 13652742 B in ALB said:
Quote:
disgusting institution institution of "higher learning" - representing a foul, deranged, disturbed and completely deluded fan base of mouthbreathing mental defectives - that lied about and turned a blind eye to decades of child rape, molestation and some of the most disgusting crimes in the history of our country, I wouldn't mind Barkley if he's there.


Could not have said it better. Tough to separate the player from such a disgraceful institution. But Barkley is a fantastic player and by all accounts a pretty solid person and a hard worker. I'm cool with it
How does he compare  
Mike in NY : 10/16/2017 11:13 pm : link
With Duke Johnson? :)
Eli 2 more years insert Webb  
Bluesbreaker : 10/17/2017 12:48 am : link
Barkley
nyballa0891 : 10/16/2017 4:33 pm : link : reply
Is a stud. Generational talent. Never seen guys do the things he can do. Hes also extremely good catching the ball out of the backfield. Like someone said earlier hes basically a bigger better roided out Ahmad Bradshaw minus the potential character issues.

Might be the best talent I have ever seen . I agree he bounces off tacklers hurdles them and doesn;t miss a stride
and that gear few have .He will put fannies in the seat .
RE: RE: RE: RE: I wouldn't take any RB high  
pjcas18 : 10/17/2017 2:03 am : link
In comment 13652718 compton said:
Quote:
In comment 13652250 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 13652237 compton said:


Quote:


In comment 13652110 WillVAB said:


Quote:


The value simply isn't there and so many elite RBs are found later in the draft.



Care to name some of these elite RB taken later in the draft?



Just from this year's leader board:

Le'Veon Bell: 2nd round
David Johnson: 3rd round
Jordan Howard: 5th round
Kareem Hunt: 3rd round

Jay Ajayi: 5th round (not sure if elite, but 7th in league this year in rushing yards so far (with his bye behind him and 4th last year)

Devonta Freeman: 4th round




I don't consider 3rd round as a late round pick. So only 3 names on that list I would consider late round picks (4th round and above). Jordan Howard and Devonta Freeman are having a nice season. Jay Ajayi is averaging less than 4 yards a carry. Only one of those players, I would say, is playing at an elite level currently.


You can consider 3rd round whatever you want, but historically 3rd round pick RB's have a 16% chance of becoming an NFL starter.

and Ajayi's career average is 4.5 ypc, that's better than some elite players.

RE: RE: he reminds me...  
santacruzom : 10/17/2017 2:57 am : link
In comment 13652029 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13652023 outeiroj said:


Quote:


way too much of reggie bush to feel confident he would be worthy of a high first round pick. but if they pulled the trigger i would still support it



I have no idea how you see Reggie Bush.


I definitely see Bush's absurd collegiate cutting and start-stop ability, but I see so much more as well. Like someone else said, he does everything. Shit, find a clip of him pass blocking. He blows people up.
RE: RE: Abs  
santacruzom : 10/17/2017 3:06 am : link
In comment 13652147 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13652139 Jerry K said:


Quote:


It has become a truism for many on BBI that you don't draft a running back high. It's repeated so often that it's rarely challenged. But how many 1st round QBs are busts? How many OL? If the player is good and durable, take him.

Out of the ten leading rushers in the NFL right now, three were number one picks, two were second round picks and one a third.



That's a cherry picked stat. Here's a list of late round RBs around the NFL:

Hunt
Bell
David Johnson (IR)
Demarco Murray
Jordan Howard
Tarik Cohen
Jay Ajayi
Devonta Freeman
Entire Pats backfield
Entire Packers backfield
Redskins backfield


2nd rounders
Dalvin Cook (IR)
Lesean McCoy

The first round guys returning anywhere close to value you can count on one hand:

Ingram (up and down)
Gordon (up and down)
Zeke (is it him or the OL)
Fournette (legit)
Gurley (up and down)


I can't think of a position that you can't say that about. Maybe left tackle?
Any Giants fan  
WillVAB : 10/17/2017 8:52 am : link
Should be wary of burning a high pick on a RB given this franchise's history with taking RBs early in the draft.

The last two Giants SB teams were built the complete opposite -- commitment to the trenches with late rounders at the RB position.

I guess people have short memories.
Franchise history  
pjcas18 : 10/17/2017 9:20 am : link
should have nothing to do with how the Giants pick in the future. Wheatley and Dayne being busts shouldn't have any effect on 2018 and beyond.

By that logic Dave Brown should mean the Giants shouldn't have used a 1st on a QB (Rivers/Eli), Thomas Lewis should have meant no Beckham. Derek Brown no Shockey or Engram, Eli Apple is a bust (assume for arguments sake the book is closed) so therefore no CB's, Flowers should mean no more OT's.

What's left? S, LB, or DE?

I do agree that I'd never draft a RB in the top 10 UNLESS, and it's a big UNLESS, there was no player in that vicinity from a draft grade standpoint that was available - IOW I wouldn't reach to avoid a position.

RB's break, I don't think I'd even draft one first round at all, but I wouldn't draft Walter Payton in the top 5 of the 2018 draft.
RE: Any Giants fan  
Dan in the Springs : 10/17/2017 10:04 am : link
In comment 13652991 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Should be wary of burning a high pick on a RB given this franchise's history with taking RBs early in the draft.

The last two Giants SB teams were built the complete opposite -- commitment to the trenches with late rounders at the RB position.

I guess people have short memories.


I'm not saying you're completely wrong because I agree we need to make the OL a priority, however your choice of examples is bad. The commitment to the trenches was via late round draft picks and FA, with one exception (Snee). And even Snee was a second rounder. Diehl, Seubert, McKenzie and O'Hara were all later round picks, undrafted, or acquired through free agency. They were the example of how you build a great, even dominant OL WITHOUT using a top 5 pick.

The idea that we would use a premium pick (top 5) for anyone who isn't a game-changer is the mistake bad teams make. You definitely build the OL, make that a priority. But you don't pass up generational skill position players when you have a chance at them. These are the guys who make opposing defensive coordinators lose sleep at night. Your offense needs to grab them when they are there.
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