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NFL "scouts' poll" on QBs in 2018 draft...

Mike in St. Louis : 10/17/2017 12:10 pm
from SI...

I don't follow college ball that much but these comments don't exactly scream franchise QB...

I know there has been a lot of debate on BBI whether to draft a QB, assuming we get a very high draft pick, but my preference would be to grab Barkley and run, pun intended...

we spent a pretty high pick on Webb and the Giant coaches seem to like him (insert joke about Giant coaches here)...

the top OT in the drafts don't warrant a top 2 or 3 pick, again assuming we have a top 2 or 3 pick...

alternatively, I'd look to trade down a few spots and pick up some extra picks...
Link - ( New Window )
I've read 1 OR and a couple of OG players  
PatersonPlank : 10/17/2017 12:15 pm : link
Listed as top picks. Im onboard for an offensive line player, a RB, or a LB.
OT not OR  
PatersonPlank : 10/17/2017 12:15 pm : link
.
Way too early  
pjcas18 : 10/17/2017 12:17 pm : link
the determination of who is a franchise QB will be based more on talent, mechanics, experience, size, etc than on stats.

At this time in 2007 Brian Brohm and Andre Woodson were top 10 picks in mock drafts.

If our pick is in  
ryanmkeane : 10/17/2017 12:20 pm : link
the 6-10 range, Derwin James would be someone I could see the Giants being extremely high on. Guy is an absolute freak with incredible ball skills. Him and Collins would be an amazing duo.
Mike...  
Kevin in Annapolis : 10/17/2017 12:21 pm : link
Quote:
alternatively, I'd look to trade down a few spots and pick up some extra picks...


So if the QBs aren't that good and there are no ER or OT with a top 5 grade, who exactly is going to trade up and what are they going to give?

Obviously a hypothetical
I love Nelson  
ryanmkeane : 10/17/2017 12:21 pm : link
but there's no way he goes in the top 5. You have to be the best guard of all time to warrant that selection. I could see him going in the 15 to 20 range.
RE: Way too early  
Kevin in Annapolis : 10/17/2017 12:22 pm : link
In comment 13653369 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
the determination of who is a franchise QB will be based more on talent, mechanics, experience, size, etc than on stats.

At this time in 2007 Brian Brohm and Andre Woodson were top 10 picks in mock drafts.


Agreed, we are way too early in the process
I don't think  
ryanmkeane : 10/17/2017 12:23 pm : link
it's too early to say Rosen and Darnold are sure fire picks in the top 5. These guys have everything you look for in a NFL QB.
There hasn't been the expected progression from '16 to '17  
njm : 10/17/2017 12:27 pm : link
I don't see this as an Eli, Ben, Rivers draft. Any of them can develop, but the same thing can be said for Webb. IMHO too many people here are still going by the hype in August when the results since then have not been as positive.

As I have can see the Giants drafting anywhere from #3 to #15 next spring I'm just watching the prospects play for the rest of the year and then form an opinion.
trade up...  
Mike in St. Louis : 10/17/2017 12:29 pm : link
somebody will want one of the top QBs...everybody grades players differently...even if the top QBs grade out well,I'd still prefer the Giants to look elsewhere...especially if they want an OT...
Darnold  
RAIN : 10/17/2017 12:41 pm : link
looks like a franchise guy to me.

He's not a slam dunk, but whom is?

I wouldn't put him in the Luck category, but his athleticism is certainly impressive with that arm. He's demonstrated he steps up in big games as well.

Rosen has the goods as well, but the off the field stuff reminds me of some other guys who have failed when they got the money and were in a big city. Still the talent is there along with Allen and others.

I don't like the offensive system Darnold  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/17/2017 12:44 pm : link
is coming from. If this was the offense Pete Carroll ran I would be with it, but it seems more Spread oriented and those Qbs are toss ups. Just my 2 cents.
RE: I don't think  
pjcas18 : 10/17/2017 12:45 pm : link
In comment 13653382 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
it's too early to say Rosen and Darnold are sure fire picks in the top 5. These guys have everything you look for in a NFL QB.


Maybe you're right. I'm definitely not a scouting expert, but judging by one mock draft a year ago this time:

Deshone Kizer #1 pick
Brad Kaaya #4
DeShaun Watson #7


Trubisky not even in the 1st round (went #2)
Mahomes not even in the 1st round (went 10th)
Kizer went in the 2nd
Kaaya went in the 6th

One not linked from bleacher report:
Kizer #1
Trubisky #3
Kaaya #8

How were they so wrong on Kaaya?

USA Today mock in October 2016

Kizer #2
Kaaya #4

No Mahomes in any of them and he went 10th, most didn't have Trubisky and he went 2nd

Too early to project QBs - ( New Window )
RE: If our pick is in  
adamg : 10/17/2017 12:46 pm : link
In comment 13653373 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
the 6-10 range, Derwin James would be someone I could see the Giants being extremely high on. Guy is an absolute freak with incredible ball skills. Him and Collins would be an amazing duo.


+1

It's definitely something to consider. Minkah Fitzpatrick is another top guy who they may want to snag for FS.
As  
AcidTest : 10/17/2017 12:54 pm : link
everyone admits, it's still early, but I would rank Josh Allen first right now. Allen has incredible mobility, which gives him a real opportunity to extend plays. His arm strength is also phenomenal. Watch some highlights. His throws are like lasers, even from the far hash to the opposite sideline. He also flicks the ball with his wrist like Dan Marino, and has good accuracy on many throws. Like a lot of strong armed QBs, he gets into trouble by trying throws he shouldn't, not throwing the ball out of bounds, and bailing on pockets too quickly. But these problems can be corrected. His talent is tremendous.
Even if the Giants somehow get to 4 or 5 wins, what teams that are  
Devon : 10/17/2017 12:56 pm : link
going to be that hot after QBs that will likely be ahead of them or would realistically trade up that high in front of them?

SFO is going to go all in on Cousins in FA. (FA will also see Smith and maybe even Brees in it, if not more vet QBs who still have some left.)

Raiders, Bears, Bucs, Titans, and Colts all have their long term QBs.

Cleveland will take a QB. The Chargers may be around us and will likely consider it. Maybe Cincy?

Denver, Arizona, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, and Jacksonville will all likely have to trade up significantly to get up into top QB range.

If the Giants want one of these guys (and they still very likely will), they're still going to end up in good position to get one.
RE: RE: If our pick is in  
njm : 10/17/2017 12:56 pm : link
In comment 13653419 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13653373 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


the 6-10 range, Derwin James would be someone I could see the Giants being extremely high on. Guy is an absolute freak with incredible ball skills. Him and Collins would be an amazing duo.



+1

It's definitely something to consider. Minkah Fitzpatrick is another top guy who they may want to snag for FS.


Fitzpatrick's a Jersey kid (St. Peter's Prep, Jersey City) and was showing this kind of talent in high school
I would  
ripdumaine : 10/17/2017 1:00 pm : link
Love Derwin James from FSU. BIG physical with range. He is also an excellent Blitzer. He and Collins would be a dynamic duo
Wasn't BobIII and Colon Crap-o-Pick suppose to be franchise qbs?  
SterlingArcher : 10/17/2017 1:24 pm : link
When you drat a player you have no idea what he will be at the next level.
"Colon Crap-o-pick"  
Heisenberg : 10/17/2017 1:27 pm : link
Should be a bannable offense. For comedy reasons, not political.
before sunday night  
djm : 10/17/2017 1:55 pm : link
I wondered where this team would win games but there was always a big part of me that believed this team would win 5-6 games even if things stayed ugly. They could still be ugly but I don't think the Giants pick top 5.
I'm hoping the Giants are happy with Davis Webb  
Tom in NY : 10/17/2017 1:55 pm : link
and don't go after one of these guys in the draft.
I have always thought USC and Notre Dame QBs tend to get overrated by the media, mostly because they play on national TV frequently, and usually play behind great offensive lines.
To me, though he looks good in college, Darnold could follow along with Sanchez, Kessler, Leinart, Marinovich, ....even Carson Palmer to some degree has disappointed.

Darnold may be great, but if Webb impresses the team (and I believe he was off to a good start) hopefully they decide to use this draft to improve the team infrastructure (Oline and/or defense).
Give Webb a shot  
PatersonPlank : 10/17/2017 2:02 pm : link
His senior year stats were as good or better than any of these guys will be.

Darnold does not look like a top pick now, any suggestion of this is based on pre-seasons rankings which are meaningless. The guys has 9 Ints already, and isn't even in the top 10 in passing.
RE: Wasn't BobIII and Colon Crap-o-Pick suppose to be franchise qbs?  
djm : 10/17/2017 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13653458 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
When you drat a player you have no idea what he will be at the next level.


Ok fine. But some players are safer picks than others. You have more of an idea with some players than others. My God.
Baker Mayfield is the best QB  
NNJ Tom : 10/17/2017 2:33 pm : link
on the list. Having watched all of them play at least once, Mayfield is the best. He may suffer from Drew Brees syndrome, but he is a player.

As far as the Giants go, I would trade down then look for O-line help or maybe LB.
I know fans want to load up for a run with Eli  
JonC : 10/17/2017 2:55 pm : link
but if you've got Darnold, Rosen, Rudolph sitting there while you're on the clock, you've got an opportunity to potentially set the franchise up for the next ten years and continue building.
and that's where maximizing the value of the draft pick figures in  
JonC : 10/17/2017 2:56 pm : link
Blue Chip QB? Yes, please. Not seeing any DE or LT of the caliber as yet.
if you want to draft well -- you have to draft with the future in mind  
gidiefor : Mod : 10/17/2017 2:58 pm : link
!
Giants  
Giants : 10/17/2017 3:24 pm : link
greatest need is a OL
I haven't seen  
ryanmkeane : 10/17/2017 3:32 pm : link
much of Rudolph. What are his positives?
"greatest needs"  
JonC : 10/17/2017 3:36 pm : link
should be addressed via UFA, best case. Tacticfly, by the draft it should be a non-issue.
I think Giants  
ryanmkeane : 10/17/2017 3:55 pm : link
will retain Pugh, Flowers, Jones, and go into draft and free agency with 2-3 OL on their minds to sure up the roster. Maybe sign 1 and draft one early if that board falls that way.

I'm just not sure on Richburg yet. I think he's a good center when healthy and he's shown he has the goods. But his play as of late is troublesome.
RE: I know fans want to load up for a run with Eli  
Tom in NY : 10/17/2017 4:46 pm : link
In comment 13653571 JonC said:
Quote:
but if you've got Darnold, Rosen, Rudolph sitting there while you're on the clock, you've got an opportunity to potentially set the franchise up for the next ten years and continue building.


Jon, I respect your opinion. Do you believe that one of those 3 are significantly better than Webb? If so, it's a no brainer, but from everything I've seen/heard/read, Webb may be just as good.
RE:  
clatterbuck : 10/17/2017 4:53 pm : link
In comment 13653463 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
Should be a bannable offense. For comedy reasons, not political.


Political, too.
RE: Wasn't BobIII and Colon Crap-o-Pick suppose to be franchise qbs?  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/17/2017 5:16 pm : link
In comment 13653458 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
When you drat a player you have no idea what he will be at the next level.

Kaepernick was a 2nd round pick, so he really doesn't fit the context of this conversation.

This is the 2nd time (maybe more) that you've made this exact same point. Repetition does not equal accuracy.
RE: Giants  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/17/2017 5:18 pm : link
In comment 13653622 Giants said:
Quote:
greatest need is a OL

That doesn't mean there will be an OL who justifies the pick, depending on how high they're drafting. Besides, drafting for need rather than talent is a good way to guarantee long-term mediocrity.
Rosen seems like the "anti-Eli" QB  
Reb8thVA : 10/17/2017 5:51 pm : link
If the reports about his character are correct. He sounds like Jeff George. Fifty cent arm and a ten cent head. This is why drafting QBs high is scary.
RE: I think Giants  
adamg : 10/17/2017 6:00 pm : link
In comment 13653685 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
will retain Pugh, Flowers, Jones, and go into draft and free agency with 2-3 OL on their minds to sure up the roster. Maybe sign 1 and draft one early if that board falls that way.

I'm just not sure on Richburg yet. I think he's a good center when healthy and he's shown he has the goods. But his play as of late is troublesome.


This is what I hope they do. Pugh and Flowers should be our tackles of the future. Maybe re-signing Fluker wouldn't be a bad idea either. Maybe a trade back in the first round and take Quenton Nelson.
SD has no OL  
Vanzetti : 10/17/2017 6:36 pm : link
He and Rosen are both top QBs and they will go 1-2 in the draft

Doesnít mean they are HOFers but this is clearly the best QB class since 2004
RE: Rosen seems like the  
Vanzetti : 10/17/2017 6:39 pm : link
In comment 13653877 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
If the reports about his character are correct. He sounds like Jeff George. Fifty cent arm and a ten cent head. This is why drafting QBs high is scary.


What about Big Bens character.? Or Marinoís Or Favreís ?
Iíll take any of those 3. Choir boys donít necessarily make good QBs
RE: Rosen seems like the  
Modus Operandi : 10/17/2017 7:16 pm : link
In comment 13653877 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
If the reports about his character are correct. He sounds like Jeff George. Fifty cent arm and a ten cent head. This is why drafting QBs high is scary.


Unless there's something I'be missed, I haven't seen anything that puts Rosen's character in question.

So he thinks the NCAA student/athlete model is shit. Who doesnt?
Darnold  
Marty866b : 10/17/2017 7:32 pm : link
Darnold has had too many turnovers this season but he is still an inexperienced player. Has about 16 starts. That being said,anyone who thinks Webb is as good a pro prospect as Darnold probably doesn't watch much college football.
Iíve seen Darnold 2-3 times this year and  
aimrocky : 10/17/2017 7:39 pm : link
Watched closely this weekend. My amateur analysis is that he throws an NFL ball. Decision making is suspect but heís very raw.
Would be better if they asked them to rank them...  
Dan in the Springs : 10/17/2017 7:49 pm : link
alongside several recent draft picks. How would they compare now to picks from 2017 and 2016? It's hard to tell from this article just how "special" this draft class of QB's are because they only compared them to each other, not to other recent picks.

I'm still a fan of Webb and have high hopes for him. Are these guys all better talents than he is? Would love to hear the side by side comparisons.
RE: RE: I know fans want to load up for a run with Eli  
JonC : 10/17/2017 10:15 pm : link
In comment 13653770 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13653571 JonC said:


Quote:


but if you've got Darnold, Rosen, Rudolph sitting there while you're on the clock, you've got an opportunity to potentially set the franchise up for the next ten years and continue building.



Jon, I respect your opinion. Do you believe that one of those 3 are significantly better than Webb? If so, it's a no brainer, but from everything I've seen/heard/read, Webb may be just as good.


Tom, by draft time I think we'll have a definitive yes for all three, and perhaps more. Webb has shown some promise and requisite NFL tools, but blue chip is blue chip.
If we end up with a top pick and a QB is there...  
Torrag : 10/17/2017 11:54 pm : link
...that we have a top grade on we'd be stupid to pass on him with Eli approaching 40. Webb isn't the type of talent that you pass on a guy that could lead your team for the next decade or more.
RE: Baker Mayfield is the best QB  
jeff57 : 10/18/2017 8:08 am : link
In comment 13653534 NNJ Tom said:
Quote:
on the list. Having watched all of them play at least once, Mayfield is the best. He may suffer from Drew Brees syndrome, but he is a player.

As far as the Giants go, I would trade down then look for O-line help or maybe LB.


He doesn't have the arm Brees has.
RE: Rosen seems like the  
jeff57 : 10/18/2017 8:08 am : link
In comment 13653877 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
If the reports about his character are correct. He sounds like Jeff George. Fifty cent arm and a ten cent head. This is why drafting QBs high is scary.


Don't agree. Bright guy. In strict football terms, he's very comparable to Eli.
I have the top 4 as  
jeff57 : 10/18/2017 8:10 am : link
Darnold
Rosen
Rudolph
Jackson
I am not paying attention to any of these scout's polls..  
EricJ : 10/18/2017 8:28 am : link
the same ones that put Ryan Leaf near the top and Brady not near the top back when those guys were draft eligible. My point... you just don't know.

Scary taking a QB high? Sure but the real question is how many top QBs were not taken high? What are the odds of finding a top 10 QB in this league beyond the first round? It happens on occasion but the success rate is extremely low.

So, if you are too scared to take a chance on a guy you feel good about in the top of the first round, then you are in the wrong business.
You 100% draft a QB  
Jim in Forest Hills : 10/18/2017 8:29 am : link
If you have evaluated him as a possible franchise QB. Once Eli retires keep the better one and trade the other to recoup picks.
Since the draft is my bread and butter  
GoDeep13 : 10/18/2017 9:25 am : link
Here are the guys Iíve been liking.

If the Giants are sold on taking a QB my personal ranking of them goes

Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson
Mason Rudolph
Josh Rosen

Josh Allen can play. He can straight up ball ala Carson Wentz but his supporting cast is absolutely DREADFUL. Last year when he had Tanner Gentry (WR who had a nice showing for the Bears last week) he had a reliable guy tht he used to light defenses up. This season his WRs could catch a cold naked in a snow storm. Itís also cemented by the fact that while his numbers are down, scouts arenít taking him out of the first round.

Some will be surprised with Lamar Jackson being my #2 but the thing is that not since Vick has a QB been this absolutely transcendent with his athletic ability. RG3, Newton, Manziel, Mariota, etc all pale in comparison to what Jackson can do with his legs. People have questions about his this accuracy but he has made strides as a pocket passer each year under Bobby Petrino (who the Falcons wanted to bring in to coach up Vick but Vick got arrested). Jackson has shown me enough to where Iím not only confident in his ability as a QB but I think he has great upside as a passer as he already goes through progressions well, heís gotten better at reading defenses, and heís got amazing arm strength to make all the throws.

However I think the Giants have proved that they will win some games which could push them out of QB and Saquon Barkley range. At that point the guys Iím looking at are QUENTON NELSON, MINKAH FITZPATRICK, CONNOR WILLIAMS, and (a darkhorse pick that I just love on tape) BRADLEY CHUBB.
RE: I would  
GoDeep13 : 10/18/2017 9:28 am : link
In comment 13653435 ripdumaine said:
Quote:
Love Derwin James from FSU. BIG physical with range. He is also an excellent Blitzer. He and Collins would be a dynamic duo
I admittedly skipped over watching Jamesís tape because from all indications heís a box safety/LB hybrid like Collins and we need a guy that can plays deep centerfield coverage.
The bigger problem  
pjcas18 : 10/18/2017 9:29 am : link
with rosen isn't on-field it's the fact that his name will eventually become rosenpenis.

Saquan Barkley  
gmenrule : 10/18/2017 9:31 am : link
then OT, OG, LB, CB, DE, DT. Additional offensive linemen in free agency. Go straight to playoffs.
.  
DanMetroMan : 10/18/2017 3:55 pm : link
Benjamin Allbright‏Verified account @AllbrightNFL 8m8 minutes ago
More
1. Darnold
2. Mayfield
3. Jackson
4. Rosen
5. J. Allen

Seriously.
RE: I would  
JonC : 10/18/2017 4:28 pm : link
In comment 13653435 ripdumaine said:
Quote:
Love Derwin James from FSU. BIG physical with range. He is also an excellent Blitzer. He and Collins would be a dynamic duo


The problem is potentially having to pay two high end contracts to safeties on their second deals, etc.
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