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McAdoo concerns

Big_Pete : 10/17/2017 4:53 pm
From an armchair observer, it is becoming apparent that there are serious grounds for concern with McAdoo

McAdoo is undoubtedly a smart man and is probably quite good with the technical details of football, but it takes more than that to be a successful head coach. I don't think he knows how to manage well, this comes through when the chips are down and you are up against it.

McAdoo seems to be pretty stubborn and somewhat arrogant.
I certainly get the feeling that he was pushed to give up the play calling. His comments about the whole team needing him now is really a wtf moment. The reluctance to adapt and the big difference in playcalling (albeit a single game) to me is a big indicment of the underlying problem.

This team has underlying issues and they go back longer than this year and aren't just a lack of talent in certain areas (which is an issue). Winning can certainly mask underlying issues, but the offence was not good last year either.

From a locker room point of view, there are all the signs of serious cracks. It will be interesting to see how they hold together. The win last week will help, but with our offensive issues it may be a tough ask to expect to turn things around, teams will be able to key in on what we did with Denver and game plan for it. Regardless

The bottom line is that there are teams with considerably less talented rosters who are being competitive depite the challenges. That is where real coaching shines through in my opinion. Just compare teams like the Bills and Jets this year when both were largely written off; both have exceeded expectations.

Just look at what McAdoo about his kind of team when he was hired, 22 months later where is that team? It may have flashed at times, but I haven't seen it on a consistent basis. What is the plan to make that happen? When can we expect it? Some certainly blame a lack of talent and while there are legitimate claims there, it feels like passing the buck to me. Other teams have had better results with less talent, why can't we?
We also should remember that McAdoo inhertied a solid foundation from Coughlin to build upon.

Sure this is all fixable, it will depend on if McAdoo is capable or willing to adapt. In some ways this reminds me of when Coughlin reinvented his approach. The key question is: will McAdoo decide to do the same or are we looking at a Ray Handley type of situation.
Nothing like a victory  
Doomster : 10/17/2017 5:12 pm : link
to mask a few problems...
Agreed  
Big_Pete : 10/17/2017 5:47 pm : link
Winning does mask problems, but they still exist.

Bottom line this is a results driven league. Where are the results?

McAdoo is an offensive coach, how many points have been scored in his 23 games so far?

Lets remember, we retained his offensive system and he has had arguably the most dynamic young offensive play-maker in the league. Personally I feel we should be seeing a better result. The jury is still out on McAdoo but things need to be better. We will see over the next 10 games where this team is really at.
extremely critical of McAdoo after the first 5 games  
George from PA : 10/17/2017 5:53 pm : link
now, it is not fair to judge with all the WRs out.

his changes in Denver were encouraging....late but encouraging
It's his first job as a HC.  
HoustonGiant : 10/17/2017 6:05 pm : link
He's obviously anal-retentive and had to be forced to relinquish play-calling.

Just like TC had to soften, just a little, he's learning. Unfortunately, his own stubborness, put us 6 games in the hole.

We ran the ball down SD's throat but he abandoned it. Now we've lost 4 WRs.
He went 11-5  
joeinpa : 10/17/2017 6:13 pm : link
He just had a most improbable when it seemed things were imploding.

Just let the season play out. All your concerns might be right, or, it s just a learning curve.

Some said he d never give up the play calling, he did. I said he is a one trick pony with his 11 personnel l. I also believe he has been stubborn in asking players to adjust to his system.

But that win says he hasn t lost the team. If they beat the Eagles, Cowboys and Redskins, combined with this win over Denver and maybe the Chiefs.

Would we still want him dismissed?
Crowd sourcing for opinions  
CT Charlie : 10/17/2017 6:46 pm : link
is probably not the Mara way, and none of us has enough data yet. Unless we're 4-12 or worse, I think he'll stay.
RE: extremely critical of McAdoo after the first 5 games  
Big_Pete : 10/17/2017 7:51 pm : link
In comment 13653879 George from PA said:
Quote:
now, it is not fair to judge with all the WRs out.

his changes in Denver were encouraging....late but encouraging


It is not just 5 games though

In 2015, McAdoo's offence under Coughlin averaged 26.25 points per game.

In 2016, the offence averaged 19 points per game

This year we are averaging 17.5 points per game

McAdoo is an offensive coach, this is his thing and for most of it, he has been calling plays. There has been clear regression for whatever reasons. There will be a variety of factors, but that is football.

One of the key reasons for McAdoo as HC was continuity on offence. So far the results are not great.

I am not trying to bag McAdoo but results are what they are and this is a results driven league. The offence has not been good enough.

For the record defensive points/game over the same period
are: 2015: 26.625, 2016: 18.59, 2017: 17.5

More than anything defence has been the reason for recent success, yet the locker room issues seem to be on that side of the ball. This just raises more team management questions with McAdoo to me.

Reese is responsible for talent; McAdoo is responsible for on field performance. Fans expect and deserve better imho. Hopefully we see improvement.
So what are McAdoo’s strengths as a HC?  
joe48 : 10/17/2017 7:57 pm : link
I have to say that is the big question. He was supposed to be the West Coast offensive guru and we know how that has turned out. So the only thing he really brought to the table as our new HC was continuity with Eli. He was a bad choice and we will be stuck with him because Mara is stubborn also.
offensive points  
Big_Pete : 10/17/2017 7:59 pm : link
We have not scored 30 points in a game since week 17 of 2015.

In 2015 we scored more than 30 points on 7 occasisions.



My concern:  
old man : 10/17/2017 8:20 pm : link
it took to 0-5, a sitting down of 1 CB, the suspension of another, and likely some internal grumblings on several levels for him to turn over the O over to Sullivan because 'the team needed me' this week?
Really? Not 0-2, 0-3, 0-4?
Maybe all the above is a 'light on' moment in his coaching career that helps turn him and team into successes.
Hope so...for the teams sake.
Hope the same for JR after the '12 season. Maybe Ben makes me 1 for 2 in that Hope thing.
Don’t Really Agree With Most of the OP’s Post  
Jim in Tampa : 10/17/2017 9:20 pm : link
I’ll take it point by point.

McAdoo seems to be pretty stubborn and somewhat arrogant.
I’m not sure it’s arrogance, but he is unlikeable.

I don't think he knows how to manage well
Did you have this concern during McAdoo’s first year when the Giants were 11-5 and winning all the close games?

I certainly get the feeling that he was pushed to give up the play calling.
Pushed by whom? Do you really think the GM or ownership is going to neuter their second year HC by “pushing him” to give up play calling? There is ZERO evidence that this has happened.

The big difference in playcalling (albeit a single game) to me is a big indicment of the underlying problem.
If you really thought there was a “big difference” in play calling maybe you should check out the stats.

The Giants actually rushed for more yardage the previous week than they did this week (152 yds. vs. 148 yds.).

They also had a much better rushing YPC last week (6.0 yds. vs. 4.6 yds.)

They also had more total yards last week (335 yds. vs. 266 yds.)

And the Offense scored more points the previous week too (22 vs. 16...remember, Jackrabbit had a TD last night).

There were no turnovers this week, which was great, and I understand that the quality of the WRs for at least a portion of the game was far superior last week. But “the big difference” this week was is the play of the Defense. It was NOT in the play calling!

Three turnovers this week and one score by the D makes the offense seem new and improved, when it really wasn't.

From a locker room point of view, there are all the signs of serious cracks.
What signs exactly? DRC acted like an a-hole and got suspended. Jackrabbit leaving the field early was just a mistake, not a protest. He thought the game was over. He and Ben talked it out after the game. There are no “serious cracks”, just fans and reporters overreacting to minor shit. If there were any cracks the team wouldn’t have come out and played like they did.

The bottom line is that there are teams with considerably less talented rosters who are being competitive despite the challenges.
Agreed. But the NFL is very competitive and there’s a thin line between winning and losing. Giants led in the 4th Q in their previous three losses, but it didn’t go their way. Last year they got all the breaks and won all the close ones. This year it has gone the other way.
RE: My concern:  
Big_Pete : 10/17/2017 9:30 pm : link
In comment 13654268 old man said:
Quote:
it took to 0-5, a sitting down of 1 CB, the suspension of another, and likely some internal grumblings on several levels for him to turn over the O over to Sullivan because 'the team needed me' this week?
Really? Not 0-2, 0-3, 0-4?
Maybe all the above is a 'light on' moment in his coaching career that helps turn him and team into successes.
Hope so...for the teams sake.
Hope the same for JR after the '12 season. Maybe Ben makes me 1 for 2 in that Hope thing.


I hope McAdoo and the team turns thhings around as well. We are up against it, we have a tough schedule. We are pretty much going to need to win games based on defence and the run game. Our opponents will know this as well and game plan accordinly. It won't be easy, but I hope to see a lot of fight over the back half of the season. We are going to need to be flexible and make adjustments.

maybe  
Les in TO : 10/17/2017 9:45 pm : link
delegating playcalling to Sullivan to allow him time to reinforce some key messages like taking care of fundamentals (catching, tackling) and situational awareness preparation will be the action that saves his job. many other successful head coaches delegate full or most playcalling responsibility to their coordinators
As long as Reese and Ross keep dialing up  
NYRiese : 10/17/2017 11:01 pm : link
Sub par talent in the early and later rounds the Giants will be flopping around the middlen range.
If he had taken his head out his butt a few weeks ago  
blueblood : 10/17/2017 11:50 pm : link
The Giants could 3-3 or 4-2...
RE: extremely critical of McAdoo after the first 5 games  
johnnyb : 10/18/2017 1:44 am : link
In comment 13653879 George from PA said:
Quote:
now, it is not fair to judge with all the WRs out.

his changes in Denver were encouraging....late but encouraging


I totally disagree. This is exactly the time his talents, if there are any, should come through. Some would say with a team full of playmakers, anyone can coach them. But take away those playmakers, and the coach's creativity either shines or is lost.
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