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Robert Tisch discusses the play-calling decision...

Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/18/2017 6:50 am
Quote:
NEW YORK -- Ben McAdoo's decision to give up the Giants' play calling duties may have come with a little nudge from above.

Giants' Steve Tisch: Ben McAdoo made play-call decision, but ownership talked with him - ( New Window )
I hope  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/18/2017 6:57 am : link
when they evaluate the team this offseason, they fully understand that the killer injuries took place when the team was already headed for an 0-5 start...

Quote:
"Nobody could have predicted not only the number of injuries, but the extent of the injuries,” he said. “If I wrote on a piece of paper — this guy, this guy, this guy — are not going to play past Game 5, you’d think I was crazy.”

Giants co-owner Steve Tisch supports Ben McAdoo, is glad coach gave up play-calling - ( New Window )
It is never comforting when...  
EricJ : 10/18/2017 7:14 am : link
Steve Tisch weighs in on what happens between the lines. Will he be on shark tank again next week?
Tisch might have had  
RetroJint : 10/18/2017 7:17 am : link
a couple before he gave thr interview. He gets expansive when he does. There is a shading here that is easy to miss. Shouldn't it have been Reese to suggest to McAdoo that he give up the play-calling ? Accorsi worked Coughlin on the matter, in reverse. He wanted TC calling the plays .

The play calling did help to some degree Sun night, especially when you consider the wide-receiver situation. And you can give some credit to Sullivan for the 0 portion of the 3-0 turnover table . But those matters are secondary to the play of the defense, specifically the defensive line . They came off their blocks like they hadn't since the first half against Green Bay. And the secondary had savage hits on Denver receivers. They KOd 3 of them .

So an informed amateur like Tisch gives a pat on the back to Mara and himself while missing the larger issue. And the VP/GM is diminished . Go Giants !
If Robert Tisch was part of the conversation,  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/18/2017 7:29 am : link
It must have been very special, lol
Not exactly a ringing endorsement of McAdoo  
trueblueinpw : 10/18/2017 7:35 am : link
Nor should it be. Beat Seattle!
'Tisch  
joeinpa : 10/18/2017 7:52 am : link
Must make Mara cringe at times.

Yeah,  
rocco8112 : 10/18/2017 7:54 am : link
injuries are not an excuse for the horrid start which ended the season in October. From all accounts this franchise from ownership on down thought they had a super bowl caliber team this year. Now a road win, albeit a good and unexpected one one, is described as "inspirational". That is sad.

I am bias though, I have soured big time on this HC and Reese. Very curious to see how things go this week against Seattle at home.
Robert Tisch?  
Dr. D : 10/18/2017 8:28 am : link
spoke with the Coach? Was a Quija board involved?


ha ha.
I wonder  
Dr. D : 10/18/2017 8:30 am : link
what Wellington Mara thinks.

;)
RE: 'Tisch  
EricJ : 10/18/2017 8:30 am : link
In comment 13654571 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Must make Mara cringe at times.


The one who is cringing right now is Wellington Mara from the grave.
RE: Robert Tisch?  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 8:37 am : link
In comment 13654586 Dr. D said:
Quote:
spoke with the Coach? Was a Quija board involved?


ha ha.



lol
You really have to stretch this one to come up annoyed at it  
jcn56 : 10/18/2017 8:41 am : link
Granted, any time Tisch makes a statement the Giants fanbase gets a little queasy, but he really didn't say anything here. That ownership discussed whether the HC should be calling plays isn't exactly rocket science. That they discussed it with him isn't either - it's not like they're not around the HC.

Unless the largest organization you've ever worked for is a taco stand, ownership being hands on to the point where they make comments about how operations are run should not be a foreign concept to you.
No, I don't think there's anything annoying about it....  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 8:46 am : link
I do think, however, that this was a diplomatic way of saying they told McAdoo to hand over the playcalling, and that's not exactly a great sign for McAdoo, especially seeing the improvement that was seen after he did it.
how long until  
well...bye TC : 10/18/2017 8:48 am : link
hes on the sidelines ?
I said after we were 0-2  
Dr. D : 10/18/2017 8:50 am : link
that it might be necessary for ownership to put a little pressure on Ben to hand over play calling.

My concern was that it wouldn't happen until we were 0-3. It ended up being worse than that. So my main issue is why did it take so long?
RE: I said after we were 0-2  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 8:51 am : link
In comment 13654604 Dr. D said:
Quote:
that it might be necessary for ownership to put a little pressure on Ben to hand over play calling.

My concern was that it wouldn't happen until we were 0-3. It ended up being worse than that. So my main issue is why did it take so long?


McAdoo's stubborness. I also wanted him to give up playcalling going into the Philly game.

It said in the article that McAdoo had refused on a few occasions prior, before relenting this week.
RE: No, I don't think there's anything annoying about it....  
jcn56 : 10/18/2017 8:53 am : link
In comment 13654602 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I do think, however, that this was a diplomatic way of saying they told McAdoo to hand over the playcalling, and that's not exactly a great sign for McAdoo, especially seeing the improvement that was seen after he did it.


I didn't even think you needed Tisch for that, I thought the whole 'the whole team needed me' statement was enough.

I do think John Mara must have been riding that elevator up to the meeting right after his no comment muttering 'just shut up, idiot' under his breath.
Britt  
Dr. D : 10/18/2017 8:53 am : link
his stubbornness is why I thought it might be necessary for Mara/Tisch to get involved. Just wish it happened sooner.
I didn't need it, but some might have.....  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 8:54 am : link
.
Dr. D, me too....  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 8:54 am : link
Might have saved our season.
not only was McAdoo stubborn  
Dr. D : 10/18/2017 9:00 am : link
about giving up play calling, he was stubborn about his play calling. He never really changed much, that I could see.

We had 4 TEs and a FB and yet we still saw so much of the 11 personnel? After it struggles week after week going back to last year? A totally out of whack pass/run ratio? etc.
He's been stubborn about playcalling  
Chris684 : 10/18/2017 9:07 am : link
and OL configuration.

Both were critical factors in burying us at 0-5.

I understand Tisch is not really the football brain of the operation but his interview was a bit too rosey for my tastes at 1-5. Inspirational?

My statement would have been along the lines of, glad to see coach do what's best for the team, Sunday night was a start, we expect to play much better football from here on out and see what happens.
The guy is lazer focused on his football team.  
8 Ball : 10/18/2017 9:10 am : link
I don't have a problem with Steve Tisch  
Dr. D : 10/18/2017 9:15 am : link
for the most part, he leaves the football ops to the football people, which is what you should want.

And if you compare the Mara/Tisch ownership with quite a few other owners/clowns, we're pretty freaking lucky.
injuries have to factor in  
fkap : 10/18/2017 9:27 am : link
but they should not be used as an excuse.
0-5 was not the result of injuries. they certainly are going to be a factor in how many games we win from here, but more attention should be paid to how the team is coached and the games managed. At full strength, this did not seem like a team being coached to full potential. It remains to see how they're coached when not at full strength.
It seems clear from that interview...  
Dan in the Springs : 10/18/2017 9:39 am : link
that Tisch at least is fully supporting McAdoo and isn't currently concerned about the record. He seems to be evaluating his performance as a coach on something other than the record or fan sentiment.

Of course, what I really believe is that the owners will back Jerry Reese's decision about the HC's future. If JR wants him gone, I think they'll support that decision. I don't expect that to be the case. Barring something new and more terrible than what we've seen, I think after reading this that Coach McAdoo is safe for 2018.
Wonder if Tisch was the one who told him..  
Canton : 10/18/2017 9:46 am : link
"Your team needs you in that locker room" and McAdoo was parroting him in post game pressers, when asked by Ranaan, if he was the one who made the decision to give up play calling duties.
RE: It seems clear from that interview...  
jcn56 : 10/18/2017 9:53 am : link
In comment 13654644 Dan in the Springs said:
[quote] that Tisch at least is fully supporting McAdoo and isn't currently concerned about the record. He seems to be evaluating his performance as a coach on something other than the record or fan sentiment.

Of course, what I really believe is that the owners will back Jerry Reese's decision about the HC's future. If JR wants him gone, I think they'll support that decision. I don't expect that to be the case. Barring something new and more terrible than what we've seen, I think after reading this that Coach McAdoo is safe for 2018. [/quote

That's a good question - but I don't know what the Giants governance structure looks like.

I always figured the Giants were a 'GM builds the team, Coach decides who plays and how' type. We talk a lot about a GM picking their own coach - but we know that wasn't the case here with TC (or at least anyone who's read EA's book knows, he wasn't shy about it).

Who hired BM, and based on what level of input? Does the GM have a vote, or just get to provide feedback on whether the coaching staff stays or goes?

I'm not sure when it comes to the Giants.
The ownership is going to support McAdoo  
AnnapolisMike : 10/18/2017 9:59 am : link
until they fire him. They are not going to pull the carpet out from under him until they decide to show him the door.

On another note. I do hope Tisch avoids any implications in this Hollywood #metoo scandal.
Tisch is very well spoken  
idiotsavant : 10/18/2017 10:03 am : link
I am not sure Dan-in-Springs 'speaks corporate talk', which is normal and fine and may even speak well of him as a person:

Remember, there is always the process that involves handing people (they obviously handled Macadoo), allowing that person to save face, or put that another way, to embrace a truth based proactive new direction that actually values their good qualities, what they CAN contribute, (while removing them from the responsibilities that they were fucking up, but without reminding everyone about negatives)...and allows the organization a touch of PR, and optimism. Very well done.

It may have been telling that TV showed Tisch in the box during the game.

In addition, on "Sounds Of", you can hear the players saying "this one is on us". "This one"

Which implies that for -prior games- the outcome had been taken out of their hands, (i.e. "NOT on us") by logic, taken by decisions of higher ups...and that this was now no longer the case. No player being 'safe' or 'saved or promoted by the front office', but, by the same token, that they trusted the coordinators to put them in a position to win, as opposed to prior situation. So, they get the (new) carrot (functional, rational and current game planning, makes them able to perform well) and the stick (do it or you get cut).

- Thank you Mr. Tisch

Sounds like the Doo Doo Friendly version  
ghost718 : 10/18/2017 10:10 am : link
The real version might be closer to "Fork over the Menu Greaseball"
Stubborn?  
Josh in MD : 10/18/2017 10:16 am : link
Quote:
We had 4 TEs and a FB and yet we still saw so much of the 11 personnel?


He fixed that, cut the FB.
You knew he had to be forced to do it  
Rflairr : 10/18/2017 11:23 am : link
He’s arrogant. And his stubbornness is the reason they were 0-5
why not just let Eli call the plays?  
gtt350 : 10/18/2017 1:11 pm : link
?
I knew it wasn’t  
NikkiMac : 10/18/2017 1:20 pm : link
A mistake when Sullivan called the plays in the New England preseason game that they looked much sharper even though it was second and third stringers ....... Yes Macadoo is more stubborn than Coughlin !!!!!!
RE: I hope  
Victor in CT : 10/18/2017 1:20 pm : link
In comment 13654558 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
when they evaluate the team this offseason, they fully understand that the killer injuries took place when the team was already headed for an 0-5 start...



Quote:


"Nobody could have predicted not only the number of injuries, but the extent of the injuries,” he said. “If I wrote on a piece of paper — this guy, this guy, this guy — are not going to play past Game 5, you’d think I was crazy.”

Giants co-owner Steve Tisch supports Ben McAdoo, is glad coach gave up play-calling - ( New Window )


That was my first thought when they lost to SD and announced that Beckham et al were out. They were 0-5 on poor play and coaching, not because of injuries.
Eh  
JonC : 10/18/2017 1:29 pm : link
Not annoyed but Tisch has a penchant for sometimes saying too much or speaking with poor timing. Not sure he really said much of importance, but when fans complain and ask for an owner to speak sometimes this is what is delivered.

We do know that when Tisch has something to say it often is a time of some level of change being made or foreshadowed.
This seems to be more likely just Tisch wanting to seem  
jcn56 : 10/18/2017 1:44 pm : link
important in front of cameras at the owners meeting, and less likely to foreshadow anything. That's why I'd bet Mara was ticked off by that one, probably figures Tisch doesn't know when to keep his big bazoo shut.
mcadoo  
japanhead : 10/18/2017 2:21 pm : link
had to be forced to hand over playcalling duties by the owners, despite the fact that it was glaringly apparent to everyone that he was doing an abysmal job at it and that it was compromising his game management. great, sign me up for another year.
Tisch net worth  
mdc1 : 10/18/2017 2:27 pm : link
vs Mara net worth. Interesting. I guess he has some say about decisions running a successful business.
RE: If Robert Tisch was part of the conversation,  
81_Great_Dane : 10/18/2017 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13654567 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
It must have been very special, lol
This.
RE: I hope  
Matt M. : 10/18/2017 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13654558 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
when they evaluate the team this offseason, they fully understand that the killer injuries took place when the team was already headed for an 0-5 start...



Quote:


"Nobody could have predicted not only the number of injuries, but the extent of the injuries,” he said. “If I wrote on a piece of paper — this guy, this guy, this guy — are not going to play past Game 5, you’d think I was crazy.”

Giants co-owner Steve Tisch supports Ben McAdoo, is glad coach gave up play-calling - ( New Window )
I agree 10000%. McAdoo is being given too much credit this week for giving up playcalling. First of all, he never even let Sullivan call plays last summer. Second, he never should have been calling plays to begin with. Third, based on results last year, he should have given up these duties about a year ago. Last, this should have happened earlier this year. I have said repeatedly, I hope ownership doesn't give Reese and McAdoo a break for the injuries. That's also why I said barring the unlikely miracle of a 10 or 11 win playoff bound season, both should be fired, along with this entire staff. That's how bad the first 5 weeks alone were. That's how bad I think of McAdoo whenever he opens his mouth. That's how poorly I think he's done handling personnel. That's how poorly I think of his in game management.
As for Sullivan I think it is too early to tell with him  
Matt M. : 10/18/2017 2:57 pm : link
I definitely liked the playcalling better on Sunday. But, the offense still only mustered 16 points. We need to see a lot more from him before anointing him anything other just better than McAdoo the HC calling plays. McAdoo the OC, not so much.
RE: This seems to be more likely just Tisch wanting to seem  
JonC : 10/18/2017 3:44 pm : link
In comment 13655023 jcn56 said:
Quote:
important in front of cameras at the owners meeting, and less likely to foreshadow anything. That's why I'd bet Mara was ticked off by that one, probably figures Tisch doesn't know when to keep his big bazoo shut.


Agree with the likely source of his motivation, but it does tend to suggest they leaned on BM a bit to induce changes. Bigger changes would certainly wait until the season is over.
What a stupid thing to say  
TJ : 10/18/2017 4:23 pm : link
.
what will be interesting  
mdc1 : 10/18/2017 7:03 pm : link
is that last game was just that, one game. This unit has shown no consistency and it may not be surprising to see them take further dumps on the field in upcoming games. That last game reminded me of how we won last year, defense and capitalizing on turnovers and field position. Offense beyond running the ball was horrid as before. Most clubs knowing this will gear up to stop the run assuming our world beating oline actually shows up to the game to block.
I'm not sure who made the call on hiring McAdoo...  
Dan in the Springs : 10/18/2017 7:10 pm : link
I'm pretty sure the owners approved it. Heck, I think they approve all major contract decisions as well.

Having said that, I'm pretty sure that Reese was all-in on McAdoo since we were told that Reese has been advised after Coughlin left and big money was spent that the future results of the team are now "on him".

That's why I wrote what I did. It may be that they get rid of Reese. My guess is that if they did, they would take the new GM's position on whether they should even keep McAdoo. It seems clear that the owners want to establish and hold the GM as accountable for the results of the team.
The Giants are more than happy to tell you that they run things  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/18/2017 7:42 pm : link
collectively. It was always John Mara, Reese, and Coughlin working together.

Tom Coughlin never had absolute power, Jerry Reese never did, Ernie Accorsi never did. George Young is probably the last guy in the building who has had the freedom to do as he wanted. Coughlin was hired against Accorsi's recommendation, and then retained even though Accorsi admitted he would have fired him. Coughlin had a heavy hand in scouting and the draft. Reese still has to run big moves through Mara, though that's true of most any GM in the NFL.

With a green head coach like McAdoo, you'd expect that the scales are tipped a bit toward Mara and Reese.

Not to Tisch  
bc4life : 10/19/2017 6:26 am : link
Be seen, write the checks, make organizational decisions, stay quiet about football decisions.
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