Eli was #1 overrated QB, but there were a couple of guys close. Eli's #s haven't been great for the last few years. They've been ok, but not great. So, sure, fine, whatever.
I think a lot of people disregard Eli's durability when they rate him. The Giants backup QBs almost never get on the field. Compare that with Roethlisberger, who's often hurt, or with almost everyone else. Rodgers is going to be out for the rest of the season, and that's happened once before. Brady missed a season with an ACL. That's NORMAL. What Eli is doing is freakish.
Whether you rank Eli top 10 or bottom 5 among starters, the Giants have had a legitimate NFL starter on almost every meaningful down for almost 13 full seasons. Other teams have their starter but the backups end up playing a few games here, a couple of quarters there, so there's a backup on the field quite a lot of the time. Eli's durability has been a huge asset. Is he as good as Rodgers or Brady? No. But he's led the team to two rings and a ton of comebacks. I have no complaints.
the last few? 2014 and 2015 he had excellent seasons. Even last year, with the terrible playcalling/personnel he had a very good year statistically.
It's not only how he ranks right now or where he ranked in top 10 QBs but how his career is judged.
When people make the case for Eli as a future HOF QB, I think that overrates him. I don't think he's a HOF at this point Many do. Many don't. The ones that don't can think he's overrated by the people on the other side.
Talk of career numbers can overrate him. He's in the top 10 all time in yards and TD? When Kerry Collins retired he was close to top 10 in yards. Dave Kreig was top 10 in TDs. These stats overrate these players. They were never elite. You mention top 10 all time and you think of the elite guys. I don't see Eli in that group.
"2 time SB MVP" talk overrates him when you group him with others who have done it or even won 2 SBs. Not all MVPs are equal. They almost always give it to the winning QB. And sometimes that QB gets too much credit for it. In both SBs, the win was more about the defense than anything special from the QB.
First part of your argument holds more weight if Eli didn't have two SBs.
And if he only had one, you might still have a case.
But he has two. And was right in the middle of both of them, making two dramatic plays, doing what a QB is supposed to do - lead a game winning drive.
Not to mention his play in the games up to those two championship games.
...would the defense be to blame for giving up the go ahead scores with 2 minutes remaining?
Only by a fool.
14 and 17 points vs the best offense ever and another that was top 5 ever? That equals "special" defensive performance. In both games we held hem to well below their ppg.
On the other side, the Patriots defense held us under their points against average each year.
that you are arguing with a guy who claims Mark Sanchez managed the postseason games as well or better than Eli, so there isn't a lot of objectivity or intelligence supporting that argument.
He still thinks the Giants won almost exclusively because of the D and Eli was simply a guy on the field.
Samuel "almost" picked Eli off, the Tyree play was luck and well as for Eli avoiding the rush, we'll just ignore that part because it doesn't fit a narrative......
It goes right along with some of the other brilliant analysis Â
Here's part of the problem: "he beat BB and Brady twice".
"HE" did not beat them. The NYG did. The defense allowed a TD to start and then had 7 stops in a row against a team that averaged 37 PPG.
Part of the overrated part is, I believe, he gets too much credit for the SB wins. Many here disagree with it. We;ve been down that road before.
"Special" in Super Bowl is a full game of excellent play. He didn't give us that.
He made a great throw to MM? He sure did. It's also one play. If that's what you want to point to as his special play and justifies his MVP than I think that backs up the overrated talk.
The Tyree throw wasn't a good one or a good decision. He had Smith uncovered about 20 yards up the right sideline. He hung it up for grabs. Thankfully we had the old man Harrison back there who couldn't get up and do anything about it. Also, a play or two before that he threw one right at Samuel. He should have had the game ending INT. Before these plays we scored 10 points.
The only point I was trying to make with that initial post was why some (including me) would consider him overrated. Getting too much credit for the SB wins is one of the reasons.
You seem to be forgetting the throws he also had to make in between those great throws and the TDs he had to throw to get those wins, It's all part of it. He also played lights out getting his team through the playoffs to those two Super Bowls as well. Don't forget that. How about that Championship game in San Francisco? He made plays there too, while getting his head handed to him. How can that be overlooked? Is he a First Ballot HoFer? I'm really not so sure, but I do think he will get in eventually.
"Special" in Super Bowl is a full game of excellent play. He didn't give us that.
He made a great throw to MM? He sure did. It's also one play. If that's what you want to point to as his special play and justifies his MVP than I think that backs up the overrated talk.
The Tyree throw wasn't a good one or a good decision. He had Smith uncovered about 20 yards up the right sideline. He hung it up for grabs. Thankfully we had the old man Harrison back there who couldn't get up and do anything about it. Also, a play or two before that he threw one right at Samuel. He should have had the game ending INT. Before these plays we scored 10 points.
He wasn't "special" because he only had a couple good throws? He's part of not one, but two iconic moments.
Minimizing that is what really is the BS part.
Trying to minimize two plays that directly led to SB wins is one of the most bizarre takes I've seen on BBI - but you deliver time and again on it.
Or, 19 of 34 for 255 and 2 TDs? In both games he threw the winning TD in the closing minutes of the 4th quarter to go along with 2 signature plays in SB history.
He is overrated - until he isn't. That's what we live for. Â
he's had a plainly unique career making it difficult to assess it as one would a more typical QB.
He wouldn't be in my HoF, personally, which would only include the best of the absolute best, i.e. most definitely not people like Terrell Davis & Warner. But by established standards, he should be in.
But to trivialize his role in the 2 Super Bowl runs? Just...weird. Barely turned the ball over in either run and both were filled with big time throws.
Like this one (only angle I could find...you'll remember the play).
And most of all this one. Think of the stakes in this clip. You're a 3rd year starter. It's been a pretty disappointing career thus far. You need a touchdown or the game is lost. The crowd is fucking roaring with 39 seconds left. And you lob a flawless 25 yard throw right into the arms of Burress to win it. It was a massive moment in NFL history.
To say nothing of the ridiculous Manningham sideline throw where he goes through his progressions at lightning speed before heaving a flawless ball against the sideline.
Eli was fucking money on those runs. Period.
Yes, the defense was great as well. Such an astute observation. How often is that not the case for a SB winning team? Doesn't take away from Eli's heroics one bit. As if he's Trent Dilfer.
If you're down on Eli's SB performances, what do you make of Ben's?
I don't think much of Ben's SB play. If there was talk about Ben going to the HOF and pointing to his SB play as a primary reason then it would be a good time to bring it up.
With Eli, the HOF talk usually centers around 2 points:
1. SB MVPs
2. Top 10 passing stats.
Its this stuff that I think overrates him. In the SBs he made some plays but both wins were more about the defense stopping all time scoring offenses.
And the long term stats aren't HOF worthy when you have the high turnover rate, low QBR, and you don't have several elite seasons. That's my feeling on it.
I'd guess these are 2 of the main reasons NFL players and others feel he's overrated.
If it isn't these reasons, then why is he considered the most overrated player?
Its true I wasn't ready to give up on Collins. I wanted Winslow in that draft and have the Giants go with a 2 TE set of Shockey and Winslow. Yes brilliant.
Eli has played good ball but inconsistent. And short of a HOF player at this point. I do think he's done a hell of a job this year with the mess he's been given. I'd like to see him play for a few more years with NYG with a decent OL.
Kwall, KWII may have been a while different player under coughlin.
When evaluating players for the HOF it is only natural to compare that player to the existing HOF members. Without getting into stats (which nobody can argue put Eli in the HOF on stats alone, as he will finish 6th in yards and tds), which of these QB's do you think had better careers than Eli?
Dan Fouts
Bob Griese
Jim Kelly
Warren Moon
Joe Namath
Kurt Warner
I would argue that NONE of them do. You want to make a case for 1 or 2 of them fine but no way those guys are HOF caliber if Eli isn't. Want to argue that his numbers are a result of longevity- fine- then kick out Warren Moon. Want to argue that he doesn't have a large number of years of excellence? See ya Kurt Warner and Joe Namath.
He CAN'T be kept out for too long, because then when his peers (Roethlisberger, Brees and Rodgers and even Romo for example) come up for vote it will be impossible to rationalize them being in and Eli not being there.
Is +8.
His TD/Intercept ratio isn't much better.
His arm and accuracy are OK at best.
A gunslinger w/o a gun, and his decisions....sometimes, well..you know...
He's hated because of the SD thing...though they loved Elway for the same thing...and he's not Peyton.
Barring a 3rd Ring he is not HOF with those stats.
I saw all that though I love the guy....but that's the reality.
He is all that, statewide because for about 10 of his 14 rears he was behind an OL that was varying degrees of MEH to SUCK .... split about evenly. We will never know what he could have been, from even behind 14 years of average to good OLs...but I have to believe there'd be 1 more W each season, fewer risk taking picks, and better decisions.
But then again his GM for 11 of those 14 years was Jerry " What's an offensive lineman? or Linebacker?" Reese.
Regular season Eli is - over the course of his career - a slightly above average QB Some great years like 2011 and poor years like 2013. His win loss percentage is between hasselbeck and Brunell.
Post season Eli he had two incredible runs with ice in his veins where he was a complete beast. Last year his receivers let him down 2008 play let the team down and 2005/6 were learning experiences as a young leader
Objectively speaking, Eli was "just another guy" on the field for the SB wins.
Who the fuck, Giant fan, Patriot fan or not really believes that?
Anyone who tries to minimize being the part of two SB wins and being the MVP doesn't follow the lore of the sport much. If Namath is in for making a prediction, Eli will be in for beating Brady twice, for being MVP twice, and for beating a team that would've been undefeated.
Add in being in the top 10 of nearly every passing record and how anyone thinks he'll not be in the HoF is laughable to me.
JFC, what’s the guy have to do to get the respect and credit he deserves?
If you went to every player, coach and GM that ever was in the NFL and you asked them to describe a franchise QB, you come up with a composite that looks a lot like Eli Manning: gets better in the biggest games, check; reads defenses and makes all the throws, check; alway represents the franchise and the coach with integrity, check; plays in any conditions, check; tough as fucking nails, check; wins Super Bowls, fucking check.
No idea why some of you bother to be Giants fans if you refuse to appreciate the extraordinary brilliance of Eli’s career. This guy is the greatest Giant most of us will ever watch.
Eli’s going to be in the HOF and I hope I can be there in Canton to see the ceremony.
JFC, what’s the guy have to do to get the respect and credit he deserves?
If you went to every player, coach and GM that ever was in the NFL and you asked them to describe a franchise QB, you come up with a composite that looks a lot like Eli Manning: gets better in the biggest games, check; reads defenses and makes all the throws, check; alway represents the franchise and the coach with integrity, check; plays in any conditions, check; tough as fucking nails, check; wins Super Bowls, fucking check.
No idea why some of you bother to be Giants fans if you refuse to appreciate the extraordinary brilliance of Eli’s career. This guy is the greatest Giant most of us will ever watch.
Eli’s going to be in the HOF and I hope I can be there in Canton to see the ceremony.
If most of us? never saw LT play than they have no clue...Eli is not in the same class as LT
JFC, what’s the guy have to do to get the respect and credit he deserves?
If you went to every player, coach and GM that ever was in the NFL and you asked them to describe a franchise QB, you come up with a composite that looks a lot like Eli Manning: gets better in the biggest games, check; reads defenses and makes all the throws, check; alway represents the franchise and the coach with integrity, check; plays in any conditions, check; tough as fucking nails, check; wins Super Bowls, fucking check.
No idea why some of you bother to be Giants fans if you refuse to appreciate the extraordinary brilliance of Eli’s career. This guy is the greatest Giant most of us will ever watch.
Eli’s going to be in the HOF and I hope I can be there in Canton to see the ceremony.
If most of us? never saw LT play than they have no clue...Eli is not in the same class as LT
Only about 3 other players are in the same class as LT. Jim Brown, Tom Brady, Reggie White. Most HOF players are not in the same class as LT.
That's no knock on Eli -- who should be HOF b/c of his play in getting to, and winning, the SB -- it's just that LT was one of, if not the, best defensive player ever.
JFC, what’s the guy have to do to get the respect and credit he deserves?
If you went to every player, coach and GM that ever was in the NFL and you asked them to describe a franchise QB, you come up with a composite that looks a lot like Eli Manning: gets better in the biggest games, check; reads defenses and makes all the throws, check; alway represents the franchise and the coach with integrity, check; plays in any conditions, check; tough as fucking nails, check; wins Super Bowls, fucking check.
No idea why some of you bother to be Giants fans if you refuse to appreciate the extraordinary brilliance of Eli’s career. This guy is the greatest Giant most of us will ever watch.
Eli’s going to be in the HOF and I hope I can be there in Canton to see the ceremony.
If most of us? never saw LT play than they have no clue...Eli is not in the same class as LT
Only about 3 other players are in the same class as LT. Jim Brown, Tom Brady, Reggie White. Most HOF players are not in the same class as LT.
That's no knock on Eli -- who should be HOF b/c of his play in getting to, and winning, the SB -- it's just that LT was one of, if not the, best defensive player ever.
To be clear, LT's the greatest football player I've ever seen. Watched every down he played for the Giants - grew up loving LT! But he's not exactly a high character guy and the older I get the more realize the importance of character. But yeah, of course LT is the greatest football player ever. I like to believe that being a great Giant involves more than "just" being dominate on the field.
every time I hear the "take away the two Super Bowls..." argument, it makes me think of a Barry Sanders 200+ yd game where someone says it's not so great when you take away the two 80+ yd td runs, especially when you focus on all those rushes for losses.
There's nothing unfan worthy acknowledging Manning has had a really successful, long, healthy career, but that he's not an all-time great.
He's had great moments, great throws, and one borderline great individual season. He means a great deal to Giants fans, and was a big part of two awesome championships. That's the whole point of being a fan of and playing games for a living.
Everyone picks Manning's career over Marino's. No one with a straight face can say Manning is on Marino's level as a QB.
And that's totally OK. Really good player with a great career.
Eli not being considered an All Time Great by some Â
But nitpicking his actual super bowl performances ?? You're really going over the Tyree play??? Really????? The guy played great in both Super Bowls. Period. End of fucking story.
Find another moment to pick apart for fucks sake. Lol...
You don't necessarily have to be a "great or elite" player to compose a great NFL career. Eli may not be one of the elite qbs. He may never have been elite although i do think he was from 2007-2011 but when you add up every single aspect of Eli's career there will be enough boxes checked to get him into canton. And he should.
Plus, the guy carries himself as well as any player before or after. And fuck if that doesn't count for something anymore. It damn well does in my book. There's a place for Eli in canton and fuck anyone who says otherwise. We put human garbage into the hof. We celebrate pieces of shit. Celebrate Eli.
I don't mean that in the assholeish literal sense. I just think it's sad that pros who border on the fence of the HOF don't get the benefit of the doubt if they epitomized professionalism and moral fortitude on and off the field. It's a sad commentary in my view. Even if Eli falls just short in terms of overall play, he should get a lot of points for his overall character and impact on and off the field.
I don't mean that in the assholeish literal sense. I just think it's sad that pros who border on the fence of the HOF don't get the benefit of the doubt if they epitomized professionalism and moral fortitude on and off the field. It's a sad commentary in my view. Even if Eli falls just short in terms of overall play, he should get a lot of points for his overall character and impact on and off the field.
Whether deserving or not, Manning absolutely is getting to Canton. The influence his family has across the entertainment and sports industry is unparalleled. It's so not even a question, it's silly to debate.
Personally, I think he's just in the gate. He'll have the numbers and the rings. He doesn't have the peeks. But 2 out of 3 usually get you in.
For all the talk of Big Ben and rivers - I don't think either survive here
I see both sides - I agree with kwall that our defense (and welkers drop) don't get enough credit in the two wins. The mvps are so overrated to me - especially SB 42 - cmon how does our defensive line not get credit for that win? We scored 17 points against the greatest offense of all time. It's not a knock on Eli - our defense won that game. Not debatable.
But it's a borderline case. I will always be disappointed in the lack of regular season success. And lack of division titles. Barely 500 and just 3 in 13 years as a starter - not even average. Philly and Dallas have had more regular season success. Again not all or even a majority on Eli but when you factor in ownership not changing the GM and just two coaches in that span -- I get championships are everything but so much more could have been accomplished here in my opinion.
I think a lot of people disregard Eli's durability when they rate him. The Giants backup QBs almost never get on the field. Compare that with Roethlisberger, who's often hurt, or with almost everyone else. Rodgers is going to be out for the rest of the season, and that's happened once before. Brady missed a season with an ACL. That's NORMAL. What Eli is doing is freakish.
Whether you rank Eli top 10 or bottom 5 among starters, the Giants have had a legitimate NFL starter on almost every meaningful down for almost 13 full seasons. Other teams have their starter but the backups end up playing a few games here, a couple of quarters there, so there's a backup on the field quite a lot of the time. Eli's durability has been a huge asset. Is he as good as Rodgers or Brady? No. But he's led the team to two rings and a ton of comebacks. I have no complaints.
He was nothing short of brilliant that season. He simply carried this team to the playoffs and beyond that year.
When people make the case for Eli as a future HOF QB, I think that overrates him. I don't think he's a HOF at this point Many do. Many don't. The ones that don't can think he's overrated by the people on the other side.
Talk of career numbers can overrate him. He's in the top 10 all time in yards and TD? When Kerry Collins retired he was close to top 10 in yards. Dave Kreig was top 10 in TDs. These stats overrate these players. They were never elite. You mention top 10 all time and you think of the elite guys. I don't see Eli in that group.
"2 time SB MVP" talk overrates him when you group him with others who have done it or even won 2 SBs. Not all MVPs are equal. They almost always give it to the winning QB. And sometimes that QB gets too much credit for it. In both SBs, the win was more about the defense than anything special from the QB.
First part of your argument holds more weight if Eli didn't have two SBs.
And if he only had one, you might still have a case.
But he has two. And was right in the middle of both of them, making two dramatic plays, doing what a QB is supposed to do - lead a game winning drive.
Not to mention his play in the games up to those two championship games.
He was nothing short of brilliant that season. He simply carried this team to the playoffs and beyond that year.
Eli was, in the truest sense of the phrase, most valuable that season to his Giants' team.
Only by a fool.
14 and 17 points vs the best offense ever and another that was top 5 ever? That equals "special" defensive performance. In both games we held hem to well below their ppg.
On the other side, the Patriots defense held us under their points against average each year.
Eli Manning plays the toughest position in sports, in the toughest city for sports.
That ain't easy folks.
Who looked like the MVP QB that game?
He still thinks the Giants won almost exclusively because of the D and Eli was simply a guy on the field.
Samuel "almost" picked Eli off, the Tyree play was luck and well as for Eli avoiding the rush, we'll just ignore that part because it doesn't fit a narrative......
Our 2011 Super Bowl was luck because we recovered 11 fumbles and got a call in our favor on the Bradshaw non-fumble.
Eli is to blame for Beckham's injury for throwing a "high slant".
PS - his game winning drive......I could have completed those passes...........
"HE" did not beat them. The NYG did. The defense allowed a TD to start and then had 7 stops in a row against a team that averaged 37 PPG.
Part of the overrated part is, I believe, he gets too much credit for the SB wins. Many here disagree with it. We;ve been down that road before.
"Special" in Super Bowl is a full game of excellent play. He didn't give us that.
He made a great throw to MM? He sure did. It's also one play. If that's what you want to point to as his special play and justifies his MVP than I think that backs up the overrated talk.
The Tyree throw wasn't a good one or a good decision. He had Smith uncovered about 20 yards up the right sideline. He hung it up for grabs. Thankfully we had the old man Harrison back there who couldn't get up and do anything about it. Also, a play or two before that he threw one right at Samuel. He should have had the game ending INT. Before these plays we scored 10 points.
The only point I was trying to make with that initial post was why some (including me) would consider him overrated. Getting too much credit for the SB wins is one of the reasons.
You seem to be forgetting the throws he also had to make in between those great throws and the TDs he had to throw to get those wins, It's all part of it. He also played lights out getting his team through the playoffs to those two Super Bowls as well. Don't forget that. How about that Championship game in San Francisco? He made plays there too, while getting his head handed to him. How can that be overlooked? Is he a First Ballot HoFer? I'm really not so sure, but I do think he will get in eventually.
Not "almost exclusively" but a bigger factor than the guy who got the MVP award.
What we have is "He" beat the Pats. We see it often, right?
He made a great throw to MM? He sure did. It's also one play. If that's what you want to point to as his special play and justifies his MVP than I think that backs up the overrated talk.
The Tyree throw wasn't a good one or a good decision. He had Smith uncovered about 20 yards up the right sideline. He hung it up for grabs. Thankfully we had the old man Harrison back there who couldn't get up and do anything about it. Also, a play or two before that he threw one right at Samuel. He should have had the game ending INT. Before these plays we scored 10 points.
He wasn't "special" because he only had a couple good throws? He's part of not one, but two iconic moments.
Minimizing that is what really is the BS part.
Trying to minimize two plays that directly led to SB wins is one of the most bizarre takes I've seen on BBI - but you deliver time and again on it.
Garbage against Seattle.
"One throw" against the Cardinals.
And then a loss.
Joe Montana vs. Cincy. Sucked all game long, saw John Candy and one throw.
Ray Lewis. Danced in the tunnel. Sucked all game long. Tipped one pass.
Marcus Allen. One 89 yard run. The rest of the time 3 maybe 4 yards. Bum.
Timmy Smith. C'mon. Timmy Smith? 1 good game in a career. Carried by everyone else the rest of the time.
It's an absolutely fascinating way of argumentation.
If you want a QB who is "clutch" you can't do better.
And sitting where the Giants are now, Eli is the best chance to salvage the season. Not Brees, not Ben and not Rodgers, Wilson, Rivers or Flacco.
If you want a QB who is "clutch" you can't do better.
And sitting where the Giants are now, Eli is the best chance to salvage the season. Not Brees, not Ben and not Rodgers, Wilson, Rivers or Flacco.
Ian - not sure about your statement and salvaging the season...those other QBs are playing with better teams right now.
He wouldn't be in my HoF, personally, which would only include the best of the absolute best, i.e. most definitely not people like Terrell Davis & Warner. But by established standards, he should be in.
But to trivialize his role in the 2 Super Bowl runs? Just...weird. Barely turned the ball over in either run and both were filled with big time throws.
Like this one (only angle I could find...you'll remember the play).
And this one.
And most of all this one. Think of the stakes in this clip. You're a 3rd year starter. It's been a pretty disappointing career thus far. You need a touchdown or the game is lost. The crowd is fucking roaring with 39 seconds left. And you lob a flawless 25 yard throw right into the arms of Burress to win it. It was a massive moment in NFL history.
To say nothing of the ridiculous Manningham sideline throw where he goes through his progressions at lightning speed before heaving a flawless ball against the sideline.
Eli was fucking money on those runs. Period.
Yes, the defense was great as well. Such an astute observation. How often is that not the case for a SB winning team? Doesn't take away from Eli's heroics one bit. As if he's Trent Dilfer.
Again...weird.
I don't think much of Ben's SB play. If there was talk about Ben going to the HOF and pointing to his SB play as a primary reason then it would be a good time to bring it up.
With Eli, the HOF talk usually centers around 2 points:
1. SB MVPs
2. Top 10 passing stats.
Its this stuff that I think overrates him. In the SBs he made some plays but both wins were more about the defense stopping all time scoring offenses.
And the long term stats aren't HOF worthy when you have the high turnover rate, low QBR, and you don't have several elite seasons. That's my feeling on it.
I'd guess these are 2 of the main reasons NFL players and others feel he's overrated.
If it isn't these reasons, then why is he considered the most overrated player?
Eli has played good ball but inconsistent. And short of a HOF player at this point. I do think he's done a hell of a job this year with the mess he's been given. I'd like to see him play for a few more years with NYG with a decent OL.
Kwall, KWII may have been a while different player under coughlin.
Dan Fouts
Bob Griese
Jim Kelly
Warren Moon
Joe Namath
Kurt Warner
I would argue that NONE of them do. You want to make a case for 1 or 2 of them fine but no way those guys are HOF caliber if Eli isn't. Want to argue that his numbers are a result of longevity- fine- then kick out Warren Moon. Want to argue that he doesn't have a large number of years of excellence? See ya Kurt Warner and Joe Namath.
He CAN'T be kept out for too long, because then when his peers (Roethlisberger, Brees and Rodgers and even Romo for example) come up for vote it will be impossible to rationalize them being in and Eli not being there.
His TD/Intercept ratio isn't much better.
His arm and accuracy are OK at best.
A gunslinger w/o a gun, and his decisions....sometimes, well..you know...
He's hated because of the SD thing...though they loved Elway for the same thing...and he's not Peyton.
Barring a 3rd Ring he is not HOF with those stats.
I saw all that though I love the guy....but that's the reality.
He is all that, statewide because for about 10 of his 14 rears he was behind an OL that was varying degrees of MEH to SUCK .... split about evenly. We will never know what he could have been, from even behind 14 years of average to good OLs...but I have to believe there'd be 1 more W each season, fewer risk taking picks, and better decisions.
But then again his GM for 11 of those 14 years was Jerry " What's an offensive lineman? or Linebacker?" Reese.
Fouts was 2 games over .500
Namath was a game under .500
Moon was 1 game over .500
Those are just some of the guys often in the discussion as who Eli must surpass.
Regular season Eli is - over the course of his career - a slightly above average QB Some great years like 2011 and poor years like 2013. His win loss percentage is between hasselbeck and Brunell.
Post season Eli he had two incredible runs with ice in his veins where he was a complete beast. Last year his receivers let him down 2008 play let the team down and 2005/6 were learning experiences as a young leader
so Eli from past couple of years has not been exactly HoF level
Had he only won the 2007 SB, I'm sure we'd be saying "yeah, but he needs two to really have consideration for the Hall."
Because winning two.....that shows it isn't luck.
He'll be in the HoF - and he certainly doesn't need a 3rd SB win to do it.
He'll be in the HoF - and he certainly doesn't need a 3rd SB win to do it.
It's so freaking obvious. For the life of me, I feel like a certain subset of Giants fans actually go seeking weird reasons to keep him out.
They do this under the guise of being "objective".
Who the fuck, Giant fan, Patriot fan or not really believes that?
Anyone who tries to minimize being the part of two SB wins and being the MVP doesn't follow the lore of the sport much. If Namath is in for making a prediction, Eli will be in for beating Brady twice, for being MVP twice, and for beating a team that would've been undefeated.
Add in being in the top 10 of nearly every passing record and how anyone thinks he'll not be in the HoF is laughable to me.
If you went to every player, coach and GM that ever was in the NFL and you asked them to describe a franchise QB, you come up with a composite that looks a lot like Eli Manning: gets better in the biggest games, check; reads defenses and makes all the throws, check; alway represents the franchise and the coach with integrity, check; plays in any conditions, check; tough as fucking nails, check; wins Super Bowls, fucking check.
No idea why some of you bother to be Giants fans if you refuse to appreciate the extraordinary brilliance of Eli’s career. This guy is the greatest Giant most of us will ever watch.
Eli’s going to be in the HOF and I hope I can be there in Canton to see the ceremony.
If you went to every player, coach and GM that ever was in the NFL and you asked them to describe a franchise QB, you come up with a composite that looks a lot like Eli Manning: gets better in the biggest games, check; reads defenses and makes all the throws, check; alway represents the franchise and the coach with integrity, check; plays in any conditions, check; tough as fucking nails, check; wins Super Bowls, fucking check.
No idea why some of you bother to be Giants fans if you refuse to appreciate the extraordinary brilliance of Eli’s career. This guy is the greatest Giant most of us will ever watch.
Eli’s going to be in the HOF and I hope I can be there in Canton to see the ceremony.
If most of us? never saw LT play than they have no clue...Eli is not in the same class as LT
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JFC, what’s the guy have to do to get the respect and credit he deserves?
If you went to every player, coach and GM that ever was in the NFL and you asked them to describe a franchise QB, you come up with a composite that looks a lot like Eli Manning: gets better in the biggest games, check; reads defenses and makes all the throws, check; alway represents the franchise and the coach with integrity, check; plays in any conditions, check; tough as fucking nails, check; wins Super Bowls, fucking check.
No idea why some of you bother to be Giants fans if you refuse to appreciate the extraordinary brilliance of Eli’s career. This guy is the greatest Giant most of us will ever watch.
Eli’s going to be in the HOF and I hope I can be there in Canton to see the ceremony.
If most of us? never saw LT play than they have no clue...Eli is not in the same class as LT
Only about 3 other players are in the same class as LT. Jim Brown, Tom Brady, Reggie White. Most HOF players are not in the same class as LT.
That's no knock on Eli -- who should be HOF b/c of his play in getting to, and winning, the SB -- it's just that LT was one of, if not the, best defensive player ever.
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In comment 13656257 trueblueinpw said:
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JFC, what’s the guy have to do to get the respect and credit he deserves?
If you went to every player, coach and GM that ever was in the NFL and you asked them to describe a franchise QB, you come up with a composite that looks a lot like Eli Manning: gets better in the biggest games, check; reads defenses and makes all the throws, check; alway represents the franchise and the coach with integrity, check; plays in any conditions, check; tough as fucking nails, check; wins Super Bowls, fucking check.
No idea why some of you bother to be Giants fans if you refuse to appreciate the extraordinary brilliance of Eli’s career. This guy is the greatest Giant most of us will ever watch.
Eli’s going to be in the HOF and I hope I can be there in Canton to see the ceremony.
If most of us? never saw LT play than they have no clue...Eli is not in the same class as LT
Only about 3 other players are in the same class as LT. Jim Brown, Tom Brady, Reggie White. Most HOF players are not in the same class as LT.
That's no knock on Eli -- who should be HOF b/c of his play in getting to, and winning, the SB -- it's just that LT was one of, if not the, best defensive player ever.
To be clear, LT's the greatest football player I've ever seen. Watched every down he played for the Giants - grew up loving LT! But he's not exactly a high character guy and the older I get the more realize the importance of character. But yeah, of course LT is the greatest football player ever. I like to believe that being a great Giant involves more than "just" being dominate on the field.
Solid poll.
Yup , wanna bet these poll takers didn't ask Tom Brady if Eli was "over rated">>>
he used to be but not too much lately....
He's had great moments, great throws, and one borderline great individual season. He means a great deal to Giants fans, and was a big part of two awesome championships. That's the whole point of being a fan of and playing games for a living.
Everyone picks Manning's career over Marino's. No one with a straight face can say Manning is on Marino's level as a QB.
And that's totally OK. Really good player with a great career.
Find another moment to pick apart for fucks sake. Lol...
Plus, the guy carries himself as well as any player before or after. And fuck if that doesn't count for something anymore. It damn well does in my book. There's a place for Eli in canton and fuck anyone who says otherwise. We put human garbage into the hof. We celebrate pieces of shit. Celebrate Eli.
Whether deserving or not, Manning absolutely is getting to Canton. The influence his family has across the entertainment and sports industry is unparalleled. It's so not even a question, it's silly to debate.
Personally, I think he's just in the gate. He'll have the numbers and the rings. He doesn't have the peeks. But 2 out of 3 usually get you in.
I see both sides - I agree with kwall that our defense (and welkers drop) don't get enough credit in the two wins. The mvps are so overrated to me - especially SB 42 - cmon how does our defensive line not get credit for that win? We scored 17 points against the greatest offense of all time. It's not a knock on Eli - our defense won that game. Not debatable.
But it's a borderline case. I will always be disappointed in the lack of regular season success. And lack of division titles. Barely 500 and just 3 in 13 years as a starter - not even average. Philly and Dallas have had more regular season success. Again not all or even a majority on Eli but when you factor in ownership not changing the GM and just two coaches in that span -- I get championships are everything but so much more could have been accomplished here in my opinion.