also has Jay Cutler as the QB you'd most want as your teammate. Overwhelmingly.
Solid poll.
You would not want - is the poll
And with regards to Eli- most guys in the league weren’t playing in 2007 and could care less about accolades achieved then- so they see a 20m guy and see that as overrated- which if you are 25- isn’t that crazy
keep overrating him....as long as he keeps on playing. He's in the hardest position to draft for, hire for, evaluate, learn and play in. I'll take him and all his overrated warts.
All you need to know about Eli is that he is a 2 time SB MVP! Â
He'll be the most overrated QB in the Hall of Fame, with 2 Superbowl MVP's, the second longest Iron Man Streak in the history of the NFL, and in the top ten (if not top five) of every statistical passing category in history.
also has Jay Cutler as the QB you'd most want as your teammate. Overwhelmingly.
Solid poll.
You would not want - is the poll
And with regards to Eli- most guys in the league weren’t playing in 2007 and could care less about accolades achieved then- so they see a 20m guy and see that as overrated- which if you are 25- isn’t that crazy
As I re-read it I see you are correct. I take back my criticism of the poll. for at least that question.
He'll be the most overrated QB in the Hall of Fame, with 2 Superbowl MVP's, the second longest Iron Man Streak in the history of the NFL, and in the top ten (if not top five) of every statistical passing category in history.
He’d have to beat Broadway Joe for that honor. Dude is in the HoF mostly for being an early football personality.
In fact watching him all year, behind this shitty OL where he has to get rid of the ball so fast. His pocket presence is actually amazing. Really top top-level stuff -- avoiding the rush just enough to get the ball out. Yeah, he still gets sacked cause the protection sucks. And he's prone to fumbling when hit. But in a dreadful season, he's been pretty amazing, even though the offense hasn't clicked and it isn't showing on the stat sheet. It's not like he has all day back there to deliver perfect throws. Watch a team that has a good OL. It's like night and day. I watched the Chiefs, for example. Alex Smith has plenty of time to set up and throw on 5 or 7 step drops. For Eli, it's a fire drill on almost every play. And people are bitching about high throws or being a little off, on plays where it was amazing he got the ball out at all before getting hit.
He's doing some impressive shit this year under terrible circumstances, and he'll never get any credit for it.
It's not only how he ranks right now or where he ranked in top 10 QBs but how his career is judged.
When people make the case for Eli as a future HOF QB, I think that overrates him. I don't think he's a HOF at this point Many do. Many don't. The ones that don't can think he's overrated by the people on the other side.
Talk of career numbers can overrate him. He's in the top 10 all time in yards and TD? When Kerry Collins retired he was close to top 10 in yards. Dave Kreig was top 10 in TDs. These stats overrate these players. They were never elite. You mention top 10 all time and you think of the elite guys. I don't see Eli in that group.
"2 time SB MVP" talk overrates him when you group him with others who have done it or even won 2 SBs. Not all MVPs are equal. They almost always give it to the winning QB. And sometimes that QB gets too much credit for it. In both SBs, the win was more about the defense than anything special from the QB.
It's not only how he ranks right now or where he ranked in top 10 QBs but how his career is judged.
When people make the case for Eli as a future HOF QB, I think that overrates him. I don't think he's a HOF at this point Many do. Many don't. The ones that don't can think he's overrated by the people on the other side.
Talk of career numbers can overrate him. He's in the top 10 all time in yards and TD? When Kerry Collins retired he was close to top 10 in yards. Dave Kreig was top 10 in TDs. These stats overrate these players. They were never elite. You mention top 10 all time and you think of the elite guys. I don't see Eli in that group.
"2 time SB MVP" talk overrates him when you group him with others who have done it or even won 2 SBs. Not all MVPs are equal. They almost always give it to the winning QB. And sometimes that QB gets too much credit for it. In both SBs, the win was more about the defense than anything special from the QB.
In SB XLII, Eli got the ball with 2:39 left on the Giants 17 yard line, and needed a TD to win. And he got that TD. I'd say that was 'special'.
He's doing some impressive shit this year under terrible circumstances, and he'll never get any credit for it.
This is true especially the last few games. I don't think it can continue unless Sheppard comes back and plays at a high level. Probably a terrible statistical year with no more than a couple of wins.
KWall - I agree that Eli's stats will look somewhat less Â
impressive by virtue of the gaudy passing numbers the NFL puts up season over season. FiveThirtyEight ran some models to see where the leaderboard might be by 2025, and Eli's still hanging in there around #9 (linked below).
I think things might change between now and then - if spread offenses remain prevalent in college and we're seeing the last of a breed of pocket passers, it could be that maybe numbers don't continue to move up the way they have or the way they think. At that point, 5 years after Eli retires (HoF eligibility), presumably sometime after 2025, it could be in hindsight he looks even better than the present because of that shift. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/heres-what-the-nfl-career-passing-leaderboard-will-look-like-in-2025/ - ( New Window )
In both SBs, the win was more about the defense than anything special from the QB.
All I hear from Eli bashers is that he was handed an MVP by the defense in both Super Bowls. But this I ask. What if the Giants had never scored on either of their two big Super Bowl drives. Lost SB 42 14-10, and lost SB 46 17-15. Would anyone be claiming that Brady was handed an MVP by his defense, or would they be raving about his performance?
He got the TD? Ok. The special part was Tyree catching a ball on his head.
Or was it the defense holding the highest scoring offense in NFL history to 14 points?
He directed the winning drive, and he somehow escaped a sack to throw the ball to Tyree. That TD drive wasn't all about the Tyree throw -- and even that throw isn't all about Tyree either.
Anyone who chalks up either of the most recent Super Bowl wins to "defense" and takes away from Manning's body of work, I hate to say it, really sounds foolish.
First of all, they don't get to either Super Bowl without his epic performances in both NFC title games.
Second, he came on to the field late in the 4th quarter in both games.
Third, he beat BB and Brady twice, once while they had an 18-0 record.
Last, did you see the escape? The throw to Manningham?
If Eli had the same stats and SB wins and played for Â
another team. Would you guys heap the same praise or will you call out the fact that he missed the playoffs for most of the second half of the career and led the league in picks in multiple seasons. Started 0-6 and 0-5 in 2 seasons within a 5 year stretch.
So are we going to blame the Oline and Jerry and the WR running wrong routes and the defense for that before Eli but praise his stats like it was his doing only?
Was a big Kerry Collins backer, he didn't feel Manning was good enough to justify replacing Collins. If I'm not mistaken kwall believes the Giants would have been just as good or better with Collins at qb, Superbowl wins included.
If I had to guess, kwall would have preferred roethlisberger, out of the top rookied QBs that year.
Was a big Kerry Collins backer, he didn't feel Manning was good enough to justify replacing Collins. If I'm not mistaken kwall believes the Giants would have been just as good or better with Collins at qb, Superbowl wins included.
If I had to guess, kwall would have preferred roethlisberger, out of the top rookied QBs that year.
I know my take has remained unchanged. I won't go back and wonder what would have happened had we not traded for Eli. Before the draft, I thought Eli was the best QB in the class, but that Rivers and Roethlisberger were not far off. I wanted us to trade Roethlisberger instead of trading up, not because I liked Ben better. Rather, I just thought there was little drop-off, so why spend additional picks. But, as soon as they announced the trade, I was happy to have Eli and haven't regretted that trade since. He is the single biggest reason for those two trophies.
If anything, as I stated above, I think he is vastly underrated by the media, fans, BBI, etc. In my opinion, he is still a top QB. He may not be a top 5 QB every year. But, I think he consistently is in the top 10. I even look back at this worst year in terms of INTs and think he was really having one of his best seasons. He gets judged unfavorably for INT that were mostly drops or wrong routes. The rest of his numbers that year were very good.
I have said it time and again, that outside of maybe Tom Brady, there isn't another QB I would trade Eli for. He may not be better than every other QB, but I think he is better for this team and this city. He is a guy who flawlessly handles the media. He flawlessly handles the pressure. He puts the team on his shoulders week in and week out. Even if he doesn't do it one week in terms of his play, he always shoulders the blame and refuses to call out his teammates. Most importantly, he has played the bulk of his career in a system extremely unfriendly for QBs, especially statistically. I'm not sure there is another QB in the league during his career who could have played as well as he in that system. He will be remembered more fondly in retirement than he is now.
Here's part of the problem: "he beat BB and Brady twice".
"HE" did not beat them. The NYG did. The defense allowed a TD to start and then had 7 stops in a row against a team that averaged 37 PPG.
Part of the overrated part is, I believe, he gets too much credit for the SB wins. Many here disagree with it. We;ve been down that road before.
"Special" in Super Bowl is a full game of excellent play. He didn't give us that.
He made a great throw to MM? He sure did. It's also one play. If that's what you want to point to as his special play and justifies his MVP than I think that backs up the overrated talk.
The Tyree throw wasn't a good one or a good decision. He had Smith uncovered about 20 yards up the right sideline. He hung it up for grabs. Thankfully we had the old man Harrison back there who couldn't get up and do anything about it. Also, a play or two before that he threw one right at Samuel. He should have had the game ending INT. Before these plays we scored 10 points.
The only point I was trying to make with that initial post was why some (including me) would consider him overrated. Getting too much credit for the SB wins is one of the reasons.
Its true I wasn't ready to give up on Collins. I wanted Winslow in that draft and have the Giants go with a 2 TE set of Shockey and Winslow. Yes brilliant.
Eli has played good ball but inconsistent. And short of a HOF player at this point. I do think he's done a hell of a job this year with the mess he's been given. I'd like to see him play for a few more years with NYG with a decent OL.
Here's part of the problem: "he beat BB and Brady twice".
"HE" did not beat them. The NYG did. The defense allowed a TD to start and then had 7 stops in a row against a team that averaged 37 PPG.
Part of the overrated part is, I believe, he gets too much credit for the SB wins. Many here disagree with it. We;ve been down that road before.
"Special" in Super Bowl is a full game of excellent play. He didn't give us that.
He made a great throw to MM? He sure did. It's also one play. If that's what you want to point to as his special play and justifies his MVP than I think that backs up the overrated talk.
The Tyree throw wasn't a good one or a good decision. He had Smith uncovered about 20 yards up the right sideline. He hung it up for grabs. Thankfully we had the old man Harrison back there who couldn't get up and do anything about it. Also, a play or two before that he threw one right at Samuel. He should have had the game ending INT. Before these plays we scored 10 points.
The only point I was trying to make with that initial post was why some (including me) would consider him overrated. Getting too much credit for the SB wins is one of the reasons.
If Eli had failed to score on the final drives of both Superbowls, and the Giants lost, would the defense be to blame for giving up the go ahead scores with 2 minutes remaining?
Eli was #1 overrated QB, but there were a couple of guys close. Eli's #s haven't been great for the last few years. They've been ok, but not great. So, sure, fine, whatever.
I think a lot of people disregard Eli's durability when they rate him. The Giants backup QBs almost never get on the field. Compare that with Roethlisberger, who's often hurt, or with almost everyone else. Rodgers is going to be out for the rest of the season, and that's happened once before. Brady missed a season with an ACL. That's NORMAL. What Eli is doing is freakish.
Whether you rank Eli top 10 or bottom 5 among starters, the Giants have had a legitimate NFL starter on almost every meaningful down for almost 13 full seasons. Other teams have their starter but the backups end up playing a few games here, a couple of quarters there, so there's a backup on the field quite a lot of the time. Eli's durability has been a huge asset. Is he as good as Rodgers or Brady? No. But he's led the team to two rings and a ton of comebacks. I have no complaints.
First, I think he was far more consistent in his career than he is given credit for. Second, I think he absolutely was special in both those games. He had very good games in both and made his best plays with the outcome up for grabs in the 4th quarter of both games. In both games he ledt the Giants to the game winning TD drive late in the 4th quarter. He also had 2 outstanding playoff runs to get there.
Eli was #1 overrated QB, but there were a couple of guys close. Eli's #s haven't been great for the last few years. They've been ok, but not great. So, sure, fine, whatever.
I think a lot of people disregard Eli's durability when they rate him. The Giants backup QBs almost never get on the field. Compare that with Roethlisberger, who's often hurt, or with almost everyone else. Rodgers is going to be out for the rest of the season, and that's happened once before. Brady missed a season with an ACL. That's NORMAL. What Eli is doing is freakish.
Whether you rank Eli top 10 or bottom 5 among starters, the Giants have had a legitimate NFL starter on almost every meaningful down for almost 13 full seasons. Other teams have their starter but the backups end up playing a few games here, a couple of quarters there, so there's a backup on the field quite a lot of the time. Eli's durability has been a huge asset. Is he as good as Rodgers or Brady? No. But he's led the team to two rings and a ton of comebacks. I have no complaints.
the last few? 2014 and 2015 he had excellent seasons. Even last year, with the terrible playcalling/personnel he had a very good year statistically.
Solid poll.
Solid poll.
Friday night or Sunday afternoon?
Solid poll.
You would not want - is the poll
And with regards to Eli- most guys in the league weren’t playing in 2007 and could care less about accolades achieved then- so they see a 20m guy and see that as overrated- which if you are 25- isn’t that crazy
Quote:
also has Jay Cutler as the QB you'd most want as your teammate. Overwhelmingly.
Solid poll.
You would not want - is the poll
And with regards to Eli- most guys in the league weren’t playing in 2007 and could care less about accolades achieved then- so they see a 20m guy and see that as overrated- which if you are 25- isn’t that crazy
As I re-read it I see you are correct. I take back my criticism of the poll. for at least that question.
Now... big name, big salary but not having big success in recent years? that is a poll he could legitimately win.
These players voting are stupid
He's totally overrated!
He's doing some impressive shit this year under terrible circumstances, and he'll never get any credit for it.
When people make the case for Eli as a future HOF QB, I think that overrates him. I don't think he's a HOF at this point Many do. Many don't. The ones that don't can think he's overrated by the people on the other side.
Talk of career numbers can overrate him. He's in the top 10 all time in yards and TD? When Kerry Collins retired he was close to top 10 in yards. Dave Kreig was top 10 in TDs. These stats overrate these players. They were never elite. You mention top 10 all time and you think of the elite guys. I don't see Eli in that group.
"2 time SB MVP" talk overrates him when you group him with others who have done it or even won 2 SBs. Not all MVPs are equal. They almost always give it to the winning QB. And sometimes that QB gets too much credit for it. In both SBs, the win was more about the defense than anything special from the QB.
When people make the case for Eli as a future HOF QB, I think that overrates him. I don't think he's a HOF at this point Many do. Many don't. The ones that don't can think he's overrated by the people on the other side.
Talk of career numbers can overrate him. He's in the top 10 all time in yards and TD? When Kerry Collins retired he was close to top 10 in yards. Dave Kreig was top 10 in TDs. These stats overrate these players. They were never elite. You mention top 10 all time and you think of the elite guys. I don't see Eli in that group.
"2 time SB MVP" talk overrates him when you group him with others who have done it or even won 2 SBs. Not all MVPs are equal. They almost always give it to the winning QB. And sometimes that QB gets too much credit for it. In both SBs, the win was more about the defense than anything special from the QB.
In SB XLII, Eli got the ball with 2:39 left on the Giants 17 yard line, and needed a TD to win. And he got that TD. I'd say that was 'special'.
This is true especially the last few games. I don't think it can continue unless Sheppard comes back and plays at a high level. Probably a terrible statistical year with no more than a couple of wins.
I think things might change between now and then - if spread offenses remain prevalent in college and we're seeing the last of a breed of pocket passers, it could be that maybe numbers don't continue to move up the way they have or the way they think. At that point, 5 years after Eli retires (HoF eligibility), presumably sometime after 2025, it could be in hindsight he looks even better than the present because of that shift.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/heres-what-the-nfl-career-passing-leaderboard-will-look-like-in-2025/ - ( New Window )
All I hear from Eli bashers is that he was handed an MVP by the defense in both Super Bowls. But this I ask. What if the Giants had never scored on either of their two big Super Bowl drives. Lost SB 42 14-10, and lost SB 46 17-15. Would anyone be claiming that Brady was handed an MVP by his defense, or would they be raving about his performance?
Or was it the defense holding the highest scoring offense in NFL history to 14 points?
Or was it the defense holding the highest scoring offense in NFL history to 14 points?
Did you miss the first part of that play?
Or was it the defense holding the highest scoring offense in NFL history to 14 points?
He directed the winning drive, and he somehow escaped a sack to throw the ball to Tyree. That TD drive wasn't all about the Tyree throw -- and even that throw isn't all about Tyree either.
C'mon, man.
Anyone who chalks up either of the most recent Super Bowl wins to "defense" and takes away from Manning's body of work, I hate to say it, really sounds foolish.
First of all, they don't get to either Super Bowl without his epic performances in both NFC title games.
Second, he came on to the field late in the 4th quarter in both games.
Third, he beat BB and Brady twice, once while they had an 18-0 record.
Last, did you see the escape? The throw to Manningham?
So are we going to blame the Oline and Jerry and the WR running wrong routes and the defense for that before Eli but praise his stats like it was his doing only?
If I had to guess, kwall would have preferred roethlisberger, out of the top rookied QBs that year.
swing and a miss that would make the poll legitimate
If I had to guess, kwall would have preferred roethlisberger, out of the top rookied QBs that year.
If anything, as I stated above, I think he is vastly underrated by the media, fans, BBI, etc. In my opinion, he is still a top QB. He may not be a top 5 QB every year. But, I think he consistently is in the top 10. I even look back at this worst year in terms of INTs and think he was really having one of his best seasons. He gets judged unfavorably for INT that were mostly drops or wrong routes. The rest of his numbers that year were very good.
I have said it time and again, that outside of maybe Tom Brady, there isn't another QB I would trade Eli for. He may not be better than every other QB, but I think he is better for this team and this city. He is a guy who flawlessly handles the media. He flawlessly handles the pressure. He puts the team on his shoulders week in and week out. Even if he doesn't do it one week in terms of his play, he always shoulders the blame and refuses to call out his teammates. Most importantly, he has played the bulk of his career in a system extremely unfriendly for QBs, especially statistically. I'm not sure there is another QB in the league during his career who could have played as well as he in that system. He will be remembered more fondly in retirement than he is now.
"HE" did not beat them. The NYG did. The defense allowed a TD to start and then had 7 stops in a row against a team that averaged 37 PPG.
Part of the overrated part is, I believe, he gets too much credit for the SB wins. Many here disagree with it. We;ve been down that road before.
"Special" in Super Bowl is a full game of excellent play. He didn't give us that.
He made a great throw to MM? He sure did. It's also one play. If that's what you want to point to as his special play and justifies his MVP than I think that backs up the overrated talk.
The Tyree throw wasn't a good one or a good decision. He had Smith uncovered about 20 yards up the right sideline. He hung it up for grabs. Thankfully we had the old man Harrison back there who couldn't get up and do anything about it. Also, a play or two before that he threw one right at Samuel. He should have had the game ending INT. Before these plays we scored 10 points.
The only point I was trying to make with that initial post was why some (including me) would consider him overrated. Getting too much credit for the SB wins is one of the reasons.
Eli has played good ball but inconsistent. And short of a HOF player at this point. I do think he's done a hell of a job this year with the mess he's been given. I'd like to see him play for a few more years with NYG with a decent OL.
"HE" did not beat them. The NYG did. The defense allowed a TD to start and then had 7 stops in a row against a team that averaged 37 PPG.
Part of the overrated part is, I believe, he gets too much credit for the SB wins. Many here disagree with it. We;ve been down that road before.
"Special" in Super Bowl is a full game of excellent play. He didn't give us that.
He made a great throw to MM? He sure did. It's also one play. If that's what you want to point to as his special play and justifies his MVP than I think that backs up the overrated talk.
The Tyree throw wasn't a good one or a good decision. He had Smith uncovered about 20 yards up the right sideline. He hung it up for grabs. Thankfully we had the old man Harrison back there who couldn't get up and do anything about it. Also, a play or two before that he threw one right at Samuel. He should have had the game ending INT. Before these plays we scored 10 points.
The only point I was trying to make with that initial post was why some (including me) would consider him overrated. Getting too much credit for the SB wins is one of the reasons.
If Eli had failed to score on the final drives of both Superbowls, and the Giants lost, would the defense be to blame for giving up the go ahead scores with 2 minutes remaining?
I think a lot of people disregard Eli's durability when they rate him. The Giants backup QBs almost never get on the field. Compare that with Roethlisberger, who's often hurt, or with almost everyone else. Rodgers is going to be out for the rest of the season, and that's happened once before. Brady missed a season with an ACL. That's NORMAL. What Eli is doing is freakish.
Whether you rank Eli top 10 or bottom 5 among starters, the Giants have had a legitimate NFL starter on almost every meaningful down for almost 13 full seasons. Other teams have their starter but the backups end up playing a few games here, a couple of quarters there, so there's a backup on the field quite a lot of the time. Eli's durability has been a huge asset. Is he as good as Rodgers or Brady? No. But he's led the team to two rings and a ton of comebacks. I have no complaints.
I think a lot of people disregard Eli's durability when they rate him. The Giants backup QBs almost never get on the field. Compare that with Roethlisberger, who's often hurt, or with almost everyone else. Rodgers is going to be out for the rest of the season, and that's happened once before. Brady missed a season with an ACL. That's NORMAL. What Eli is doing is freakish.
Whether you rank Eli top 10 or bottom 5 among starters, the Giants have had a legitimate NFL starter on almost every meaningful down for almost 13 full seasons. Other teams have their starter but the backups end up playing a few games here, a couple of quarters there, so there's a backup on the field quite a lot of the time. Eli's durability has been a huge asset. Is he as good as Rodgers or Brady? No. But he's led the team to two rings and a ton of comebacks. I have no complaints.