... what else does Eli need to accomplish to make an election to the HOF (not necessarily first ballot) a virtual lock?
1) Winning League MVP (Yes, but very unlikely)
2) Another Super Bowl appearance (playing well, but in a losing cause)
3) X more seasons making the playoffs (2?)
4) X more playoff wins (4?)
5) Longevity - playing at a high level X more years (4?)
I think longevity is Eli's best shot. Many of us take exception to Jerry Rice being voted the GOAT, but his longevity is one the arguments made in support of his vote as the GOAT.
If Eli is the Giant starting QB into his 40s, likely putting him in the top 5 in most regular season QB stats, is that enough?
In any case, though, I can't disagree that Eli belongs if Namath does. He certainly has a much stronger case for inclusion.
Well I guess we'll see, won't we.
so naive...
Adding to this...how many years he was OUTSIDE the top 10?
his cumulative statistical resume is impressive NOW. Will it always be that way? Probably not. His rates stats are not comparable to the slam dunk HOFers of his era. But I guess you just want to ignore all this? I can promise you that voters won't.
Seems like you are unfamiliar with the HOF's history of excluding players who most would deem slam dunks - several for ridiculous reasons.
It's you cherry pickers and goalpost movers that are asking questions, but not providing answers/data.
Burden of proof is on you to prove he doesn't belong
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His resume is too strong.
his cumulative statistical resume is impressive NOW. Will it always be that way? Probably not. His rates stats are not comparable to the slam dunk HOFers of his era. But I guess you just want to ignore all this? I can promise you that voters won't.
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If they keep him out on perception, they run the risk of losing legitimacy.
Seems like you are unfamiliar with the HOF's history of excluding players who most would deem slam dunks - several for ridiculous reasons.
Posted July 10, 2017 at 08:12 AM | Updated July 10, 2017 at 08:33 AM
By Dan Duggan | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
Sometimes we don't appreciate what's in front of us. That seems to be the case with Giants quarterback Eli Manning.
Manning gets picked apart more than any other two-time Super Bowl MVP. Then again, there are very few players that would even qualify for such criticism. Manning, Terry Bradshaw, Bart Starr, Joe Montana and Tom Brady are the only players to win multiple Super Bowl MVP awards.
As much as some want to dismiss Manning as not being worthy of such elite company, his career stats show that he's much more than some average quarterback who got hot during two Super Bowl runs.
A review of the NFL's career passing stats revealed the same names repeatedly in the top 10. And Manning was right there among a collection of the best quarterbacks ever. Here's a review of where Manning currently ranks in all of the major passing categories with a look at where he could wind up on the leader boards if he stays healthy and maintains his level of play during the final three seasons of his contract:
PASSING YARDS
Where he ranks: 8th
1. Peyton Manning: 71,940
2. Brett Favre: 71, 838
3. Drew Brees: 66,111
4. Tom Brady: 61,582
5. Dan Marino: 61,361
6. John Elway: 51,475
7. Warren Moon: 49,325
8. Eli Manning: 48,218
9. Fran Tarkenton: 47,003
10. Ben Roethlisberger: 46,814
Where he could rank after 2017
Manning should easily pass Moon to move into seventh place this season. He needs 3,258 yards to jump Elway for sixth place, which is close to a slam dunk. Manning hasn't thrown for less than 3,818 yards since the 2008 season. His career ceiling is likely the fifth spot. Marino has 13,143 more yards, so Manning will need three very productive seasons or four solid seasons to surpass the former Dolphin.
PASSING TOUCHDOWNS
Where he ranks: 7th
1. Peyton Manning: 539
2. Brett Favre: 508
3. Drew Brees: 465
4. Tom Brady: 456
5. Dan Marino: 420
6. Fran Tarkenton: 342
7. Eli Manning: 320
8. Philip Rivers: 314
9. Ben Roethlisberger: 301
10. John Elway: 300
Where he could rank after 2017
Sixth place is well within reach, as Manning needs 23 touchdowns to pass Tarkenton. Manning has thrown at least 23 touchdowns in 10 of his 12 seasons as a full-time starter. Once again, catching Marino at No. 5 is likely Manning's career ceiling. Marino has 100 more touchdown passes, so Manning will likely need four solid seasons to jump the Miami legend.
PASSES COMPLETED
Where he ranks: 7th
1. Brett Favre: 6,300
2. Peyton Manning: 6,125
3. Drew Brees: 5,836
4. Tom Brady: 5,244
5. Dan Marino: 4,967
6. John Elway: 4,123
7. Eli Manning: 4,072
8. Warren Moon: 3,988
9. Drew Bledsoe: 3,839
10. Philip Rivers: 3,811
Where he could rank after 2017
Manning could leap frog Elway into sixth place within the first two or three games, but he won't get any higher on the list this season. Manning should move into fifth place if he plays three more seasons.
PASSES ATTEMPTED
Where he ranks: 7th
1. Brett Favre: 10,169
2. Peyton Manning: 9,380
3. Drew Brees: 8,758
4. Dan Marino: 8,358
5. Tom Brady: 8,224
6. John Elway: 7,250
7. Eli Manning: 6,825
8. Warren Moon: 6,823
9. Drew Bledsoe: 6,717
10. Vinny Testaverde: 6,701
Where he could rank after 2017
Manning is a lock to pass Elway for sixth place this season. Brady figures to continue to climb the list, but Manning should pass Marino if he plays three more seasons. That would likely leave Manning at No. 5 overall.
PASSES INTERCEPTED
Where he ranks: 21st
Many probably expected Manning to be higher on this list, but he's all the way down at 21 behind Favre, Tarkenton, Marino, Peyton Manning, Elway, Moon and Brees among the players frequently in the top 10 in the other categories.
Where he could rank after 2017
Manning, who has 215 career interceptions, should jump quite a few spots this season. He figures to get to at least the 16th spot and he could move up to No. 15 if he throws more than 18 interceptions this season. Manning could end up in the top six if he continues his current pace for three more seasons.
GAMES STARTED
Where he ranks: 10th
1. Brett Favre: 298
2. Peyton Manning: 265
3. Dan Marino: 240
4. Fran Tarkenton: 239
5. Tom Brady: 235
6. Drew Brees: 232
7. John Elway: 231
8. Vinny Testaverde: 214
9. Warren Moon: 203
10. Eli Manning: 199
Where he could rank after 2017
As long as he stays healthy, Manning will move into eighth place on this list in 2017. He'll match Elway for seventh if he starts every game over the next two seasons. Manning will pass Tarkenton and Marino if he continues his consecutive starts streak for the next three seasons. That should leave Manning in fifth overall, assuming Brees and Brady play at least one more season.
4TH QUARTER COMEBACKS
Where he ranks: 7th
1. Peyton Manning: 45
2. Tom Brady: 39
t-3. Dan Marino: 36
t-3. Johnny Unitas: 36
5. John Elway: 35
6. Joe Montana: 31
t-7. Brett Favre: 30
t-7. Eli Manning: 30
t-7. Fran Tarkenton: 30
10. Ben Roethlisberger: 29
Where he could rank after 2017
It's impossible to project fourth-quarter comebacks, but Manning has averaged more than two per seasons throughout his career. So, a jump to the sixth spot is a reasonable expectation for this season.
IT'S NOT ALL GOOD ...
Obviously, Manning's longevity has played a major role in his ascension up the career leader boards. He doesn't fare as well in some of the categories that don't reward longevity. He ranks 40th in passer rating (83.7) and tied for 43rd in completion percentage (59.7). Still, he's ahead of Elway, Marino, Moon and Tarkenton in completion percentage, and his passer rating is better than Elway, Moon and Tarkenton.
HE'S A LOCK FOR CANTON
Debating Manning's Hall of Fame-worthiness is silly. He's a two-time Super Bowl MVP who could rank in the top five of every major passing category by the end of his career. Every other quarterback repeatedly in the top 10 is in the Hall of Fame or is a lock to make it. That includes quarterbacks who don't have a postseason resume that compares to Manning's.
Football isn't baseball where numbers mean everything, but it's impossible to ignore Manning's stats. Longevity obviously plays a role, but only great quarterbacks play long enough to amass such numbers and Manning's durability is another quality that adds to his value.
Manning is a lock for the Hall of Fame. The only question remaining is if he makes it on the first ballot.
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Vinny Testeverde was a stat compiler. Dave Kreig was a stat compiler. Mark Brunell was a stat compiler. Eli is a two time SB MVP who will also finish in the top 10 of nearly every passing category.
If he's a stat compiler, you can pretty much say that about any guy who has been under center for more than 12 years.
In comment 13655318 oldog said:
There's nothing he's going to realistically do in the time he has left that will change how he's viewed.
Unless he escapes this team and goes on to win a third title elsewhere in the few years he has left, his story is told.
Too injury prone.
He is a 2nd ballot hall of famer. Narrative on his propensity for INT's (which is true) plus his goofy face plus anti-NY bias prevents him from going in 1st ballot, but the HOF voters are numbers reliant guys- they can't keep him out.
Vinny Testeverde was a stat compiler. Dave Kreig was a stat compiler. Mark Brunell was a stat compiler. Eli is a two time SB MVP who will also finish in the top 10 of nearly every passing category.
If he's a stat compiler, you can pretty much say that about any guy who has been under center for more than 12 years.
I believe Phil probably IS Eli's closest comp career wise-- 2 sbs and mvp of superbowl(of course Phil got the 2nd ring but did not play), never all-pro but up there often-more very good that great. Personally believe Phil should be considered given his record and importance to nyg 80s team.
I believe Phil probably IS Eli's closest comp career wise-- 2 sbs and mvp of superbowl(of course Phil got the 2nd ring but did not play), never all-pro but up there often-more very good that great. Personally believe Phil should be considered given his record and importance to nyg 80s team.
You can play that game all day long. Simms didn't have the receivers but he played with a historically great defense his entire career and a HoF TE his entire career.
Simms was a good QB but he simply missed too much time due to injury and doesn't have the numbers to justify HoF.
The other thing I can see keeping him out is if they decide to be stricter on QBs than anticipated. I'd be mad if Ben gets in but Eli doesn't. But both being excluded due to a higher threshold would make some sense to me. Rodgers, Brees, and Brady being the only active guys to get in (and maybe Ryan if he wins a Super Bowl and another MVP), for example (excluding the post-2010 draftees here).
The case against Eli is simple, though: He's only been a top five QB once (2011). I don't think it's sufficient to keep him out.
Eli's had an extremely bizzare career. To Greg's point, I don't think there's a good comp. But I do think Eli is more deserving than a few that are already in.
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than the NFL's current fans are.
History is going to look at him as a very durable guy with two highly improbable titles and what will likely be a barely .500 record that was his era's turnover king, with below average for his era rate stats. The subjective narrative stuff won't be much kinder, given how entrenched it is/will be -- hell the case I've seen a couple HOF writers make for Coughlin as a HOFer is largely based on him somehow winning two titles with Eli at QB; that's a huge snapshot into how they view him and it's not close to well.
It shouldn't have ended up this way, it's honestly not fair, but that's what how his career has played out post SB 46 has done. Some of you are putting on some blinders with this and are going to end up just as disappointed as I imagine folks were the first few years with Simms not getting in, before acceptance finally hit.
What a nonsensical post...
Hmm...can we clarify why he's not having the best of years behind that wonderful offensive line Reese has built for him since that time? I think any quarterback would look like trash behind the 2013 line guarding for Eli...
5-10 years after Eli retires, his states will be crushed by the likes of Stafford and Matt Ryan....And I dont think those guys are lock HOF
So stats mean little now due to the league being a passing league where Tight Ends are now receivers and there are no full backs and the defense cant touch you. Qb's are protected like never before...If a qb cant put up numbers in this league than they dont belong in an NFL field.
Simms in todays game would have awesome numbers with OBJ Plax, Shockey, Tiki, Toomer, etc etc
Hmm...can we clarify why he's not having the best of years behind that wonderful offensive line Reese has built for him since that time? I think any quarterback would look like trash behind the 2013 line guarding for Eli...
No a qb like Eli who is a stone footed qb and throw quick to avoid hits would suck behind this line...Rodgers has a terrible line...he is playing without his tackles this year and yet carries the team...No run game either..No OBJ type of talent...Eli can win for sure but you need to build a superior oline...A qb who makes his money needs to make others better and carry the team
I bring him up because Simms is probably the second most important player on a Giants team that won 2. If every steeler just about made it from the 70s why is it a stretch to say Simms deserved it if a Warren Moon, who was a stat accumulator galore with no post season success whatsoever in?
Rodgers is a HOF BTW, who else can be compared to him from this era besides Brady and Peyton?
This is a discussion about Eli for HOF
His stats are a better show of longevity than greatness when you adjust for the way the league is now. But the stats are still impressive and warrant eventually getting in.
There are several things the HOF and the rest of the country do NOT care about however... that homers need to realize
--- they dont grade QBs based on the OL they played with
--- they dont blame every INT on Manningham, Randle, or some other random global event
--- they dont blame every INT on Manningham, Randle, or some other random global event
I think he'll get in for the reasons you mentioned, and I don't think any of the negatives are enough to keep him out so I don't dwell on them, INT's included.
Hell, we have one poster here who inexplicably craps on Eli's performances in the SB's as being just another guy on the field who actually defended some of Favre's killer INT's in playoff games as being a product of him trying to make plays.
He was talking more about an INT against New Orleans, but one of the worst postseason INT's I've ever seen ist he one he threw to Webster in OT.
Just a gunslinger....
The HOF really isn't that relevant anymore, so many guys I feel who are non-elite are in.
He beat the best QB and coach of his generation twice in the SB and was MVP both times. Both Superbowl runs he played on the road against HoF QBs and won. He played well against the best teams at the most important times. He will finish in the top in nearly every major passing category. THE STREAK.
If you are on this site most of all us are all are Giants fans. You think we would have won more Superbowls with another QB here? Favre and Rodgers were on better team playing at home and Eli outplayed them. If you are Giants fan and you think Eli is not that good or doesn’t deserve to be in the HoF go find the nearest mirror and take a good long look at a real asshole.
Brady, Rodgers, and Brees are the other older QBs deserving the HOF membership.
Matt Ryan needs some rings to get in.
So, this has nothing to do with stats. There is a serious perception out there about Eli and it is negative. I seriously hope he adds at least one more incredible moment to his resume.
and that was how many long months ago? The man has waited long enough!
Either way, Eli has been so valuable to his team over the past few years. That offensive line since 2010 has been pitiful, and he still shows up for every game and plays. I think his ability to start all of these games in a row is what makes up for his errors for the summary of his career, especially when everyone is bitching about stats or whatever irrelevant garbage (such as passer rating, speaking of Romo, and Kirk Cousins is like 6th or 7th all-time isn’t he? Lol). Even though Eli is currently number 7 all time in touchdown throws and passing yards.
Everyone keeps saying these guys are going to pass Eli, but no one can play that long, stay healthy to reach this point of his career and he is 36. I can still remember even after winning the Super Bowl there were still lists that had Flacco, Ryan, and Josh Freeman (lol) as top QBs over Eli Manning.
If we’re talking about Ben Roethlisberger going into the HOF, I might have this silly idea Eli fucking Manning is getting in as well.
I think someone always mentions it (Britt in VA), the first thing you think of Eli Manning is that game winning drive vs the Patriots in Super Bowl 42. Then, he did it again in Super Bowl 46. Good night.
Ha, didn't even think of that.
Yeah, they've been holding him back!
Long overdue, indeed!
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First of all stating the case against him is not to believe he does not deserve it. I'm of opinion he should get in......but there are points against him, like efficiency numbers and perception.
And stating he's a unique case is not wrong. He was and is an inconsistent player whose great streaks were legendary and alone worth the hall. But still a cut below the multiple sb winners in the hall at qb.
Eli is still the most valuable player on Giants even if players like Collins or odb are on the team who are better.
When people bring up how bad perception/narrative is for him, remember comments like this from Giant fans, not even the media that's spent a lot of the last two days laughing at him and any of the few who'd dare defend him after that overrated poll.
I don't think most of the people in this thread who have been saying he's questionable or won't get in are saying it because they have some sort of agenda against him. It's because they (including myself) realize how badly he's viewed (media, fans, players) at this point, now and in total, outside of not exactly large pockets of fans. It doesn't matter if it's fair or accurate or how many counting stats you post over and over again.