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Eli And The HOF (Other Than A 3rd SB Win ... )

Trainmaster : 10/18/2017 10:05 am
... what else does Eli need to accomplish to make an election to the HOF (not necessarily first ballot) a virtual lock?

1) Winning League MVP (Yes, but very unlikely)
2) Another Super Bowl appearance (playing well, but in a losing cause)
3) X more seasons making the playoffs (2?)
4) X more playoff wins (4?)
5) Longevity - playing at a high level X more years (4?)

I think longevity is Eli's best shot. Many of us take exception to Jerry Rice being voted the GOAT, but his longevity is one the arguments made in support of his vote as the GOAT.

If Eli is the Giant starting QB into his 40s, likely putting him in the top 5 in most regular season QB stats, is that enough?

most would not consider  
Rocky369 : 10/18/2017 10:07 am : link
he's played at a high level for the first 14 seasons. what does 4 more get you? win a Super Bowl (why lose?) and he can't be denied. Until then, players gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate
He has earned it already.  
AnnapolisMike : 10/18/2017 10:08 am : link
I doubt a first ballot...but he will get in. His resume is more than good enough right now.
He's already done enough  
BillT : 10/18/2017 10:08 am : link
He's already top 10 in many key statistical categories plus the 2 SB MVPs. With a couple of more years to go. Done and done.
I just made a decent sized bet last week  
LG in NYC : 10/18/2017 10:09 am : link
that Eli would get in within 3 years of being eligible.

I don't pay too close attention to HOF's in any sport, but based on what I know about entrance into Canton I would think Eli already has the goods.

How many 2x SB MVP's aren't in the HOF? and then add in top 7 (at least) for passing yards and TD's. Never mind the Ironman streak.

how is that not enough to get in? why should he have to do more than that?
He is in  
Chip : 10/18/2017 10:09 am : link
He will end up top 6 in both all time TD Passes and 6th all time in passing yards. Its a lock and not worth discussing.
He’s a HOF’er  
Sean : 10/18/2017 10:10 am : link
The better question is, what does Joe Flacco need to do to get in?
Jerry Rice's GOAT carrer wasn't about longevity....  
kinard : 10/18/2017 10:13 am : link
.... it was about him being so much better than anyone who ever played the position that it's not even close. Really, the question will always be who was the second best wide receiver of all time - Don Hutson, probably.
I'm in the minority who thinks Eli is not a an automatic inductee...  
kinard : 10/18/2017 10:15 am : link
... good player who had some great moments. I actually think there may be anti-NY bias that could hurt him too.
He doesn't need anything else.  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 10:18 am : link
Quote:
Numbers don't lie: Why Giants QB Eli Manning is a lock for Hall of Fame

Posted July 10, 2017 at 08:12 AM | Updated July 10, 2017 at 08:33 AM

lock for Hall of Fame
Posted July 10, 2017 at 08:12 AM | Updated July 10, 2017 at 08:33 AM

By Dan Duggan | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

Sometimes we don't appreciate what's in front of us. That seems to be the case with Giants quarterback Eli Manning.

Manning gets picked apart more than any other two-time Super Bowl MVP. Then again, there are very few players that would even qualify for such criticism. Manning, Terry Bradshaw, Bart Starr, Joe Montana and Tom Brady are the only players to win multiple Super Bowl MVP awards.

As much as some want to dismiss Manning as not being worthy of such elite company, his career stats show that he's much more than some average quarterback who got hot during two Super Bowl runs.

A review of the NFL's career passing stats revealed the same names repeatedly in the top 10. And Manning was right there among a collection of the best quarterbacks ever. Here's a review of where Manning currently ranks in all of the major passing categories with a look at where he could wind up on the leader boards if he stays healthy and maintains his level of play during the final three seasons of his contract:

PASSING YARDS

Where he ranks: 8th

1. Peyton Manning: 71,940
2. Brett Favre: 71, 838
3. Drew Brees: 66,111
4. Tom Brady: 61,582
5. Dan Marino: 61,361
6. John Elway: 51,475
7. Warren Moon: 49,325
8. Eli Manning: 48,218
9. Fran Tarkenton: 47,003
10. Ben Roethlisberger: 46,814

Where he could rank after 2017

Manning should easily pass Moon to move into seventh place this season. He needs 3,258 yards to jump Elway for sixth place, which is close to a slam dunk. Manning hasn't thrown for less than 3,818 yards since the 2008 season. His career ceiling is likely the fifth spot. Marino has 13,143 more yards, so Manning will need three very productive seasons or four solid seasons to surpass the former Dolphin.

PASSING TOUCHDOWNS

Where he ranks: 7th

1. Peyton Manning: 539
2. Brett Favre: 508
3. Drew Brees: 465
4. Tom Brady: 456
5. Dan Marino: 420
6. Fran Tarkenton: 342
7. Eli Manning: 320
8. Philip Rivers: 314
9. Ben Roethlisberger: 301
10. John Elway: 300

Where he could rank after 2017

Sixth place is well within reach, as Manning needs 23 touchdowns to pass Tarkenton. Manning has thrown at least 23 touchdowns in 10 of his 12 seasons as a full-time starter. Once again, catching Marino at No. 5 is likely Manning's career ceiling. Marino has 100 more touchdown passes, so Manning will likely need four solid seasons to jump the Miami legend.

PASSES COMPLETED

Where he ranks: 7th

1. Brett Favre: 6,300
2. Peyton Manning: 6,125
3. Drew Brees: 5,836
4. Tom Brady: 5,244
5. Dan Marino: 4,967
6. John Elway: 4,123
7. Eli Manning: 4,072
8. Warren Moon: 3,988
9. Drew Bledsoe: 3,839
10. Philip Rivers: 3,811

Where he could rank after 2017

Manning could leap frog Elway into sixth place within the first two or three games, but he won't get any higher on the list this season. Manning should move into fifth place if he plays three more seasons.

PASSES ATTEMPTED

Where he ranks: 7th

1. Brett Favre: 10,169
2. Peyton Manning: 9,380
3. Drew Brees: 8,758
4. Dan Marino: 8,358
5. Tom Brady: 8,224
6. John Elway: 7,250
7. Eli Manning: 6,825
8. Warren Moon: 6,823
9. Drew Bledsoe: 6,717
10. Vinny Testaverde: 6,701

Where he could rank after 2017

Manning is a lock to pass Elway for sixth place this season. Brady figures to continue to climb the list, but Manning should pass Marino if he plays three more seasons. That would likely leave Manning at No. 5 overall.

PASSES INTERCEPTED

Where he ranks: 21st

Many probably expected Manning to be higher on this list, but he's all the way down at 21 behind Favre, Tarkenton, Marino, Peyton Manning, Elway, Moon and Brees among the players frequently in the top 10 in the other categories.

Where he could rank after 2017

Manning, who has 215 career interceptions, should jump quite a few spots this season. He figures to get to at least the 16th spot and he could move up to No. 15 if he throws more than 18 interceptions this season. Manning could end up in the top six if he continues his current pace for three more seasons.

GAMES STARTED

Where he ranks: 10th

1. Brett Favre: 298
2. Peyton Manning: 265
3. Dan Marino: 240
4. Fran Tarkenton: 239
5. Tom Brady: 235
6. Drew Brees: 232
7. John Elway: 231
8. Vinny Testaverde: 214
9. Warren Moon: 203
10. Eli Manning: 199

Where he could rank after 2017

As long as he stays healthy, Manning will move into eighth place on this list in 2017. He'll match Elway for seventh if he starts every game over the next two seasons. Manning will pass Tarkenton and Marino if he continues his consecutive starts streak for the next three seasons. That should leave Manning in fifth overall, assuming Brees and Brady play at least one more season.

4TH QUARTER COMEBACKS

Where he ranks: 7th

1. Peyton Manning: 45
2. Tom Brady: 39
t-3. Dan Marino: 36
t-3. Johnny Unitas: 36
5. John Elway: 35
6. Joe Montana: 31
t-7. Brett Favre: 30
t-7. Eli Manning: 30
t-7. Fran Tarkenton: 30
10. Ben Roethlisberger: 29

Where he could rank after 2017

It's impossible to project fourth-quarter comebacks, but Manning has averaged more than two per seasons throughout his career. So, a jump to the sixth spot is a reasonable expectation for this season.

IT'S NOT ALL GOOD ...

Obviously, Manning's longevity has played a major role in his ascension up the career leader boards. He doesn't fare as well in some of the categories that don't reward longevity. He ranks 40th in passer rating (83.7) and tied for 43rd in completion percentage (59.7). Still, he's ahead of Elway, Marino, Moon and Tarkenton in completion percentage, and his passer rating is better than Elway, Moon and Tarkenton.

HE'S A LOCK FOR CANTON

Debating Manning's Hall of Fame-worthiness is silly. He's a two-time Super Bowl MVP who could rank in the top five of every major passing category by the end of his career. Every other quarterback repeatedly in the top 10 is in the Hall of Fame or is a lock to make it. That includes quarterbacks who don't have a postseason resume that compares to Manning's.

Football isn't baseball where numbers mean everything, but it's impossible to ignore Manning's stats. Longevity obviously plays a role, but only great quarterbacks play long enough to amass such numbers and Manning's durability is another quality that adds to his value.

Manning is a lock for the Hall of Fame. The only question remaining is if he makes it on the first ballot.


I thought it would be okay to post the article because it's from the summer.

Link - ( New Window )
if he never played another game (God forbid), he's a lock  
GiantNatty : 10/18/2017 10:19 am : link
7th in both all time passing yards AND touchdown passes

3 games away from the second-longest consecutive games played record

2 super bowls and 2 super bowl MVP trophies (both against the GOAT).

he's 100% in, no question.
He will finish top 5 in yards and touchdowns OF ALL TIME  
est1986 : 10/18/2017 10:39 am : link
2x Superbowl Champ
2x Superbowl MVP
2x GW 4th quarter comeback drives to win both SB's
Out dueled the #1 best QB/player ever in both SB's (Brady)
Iron Man
Walter Peyton Man of the Year

He's a lock as long as he keeps it in cruise control for another two years but i suspect he plays at least four MORE years.
He lost a lot of  
Doomster : 10/18/2017 11:06 am : link
4th quarter comebacks this year and two years ago, because of the defense....could easily be at 35....
the concern about his stats of accumulation  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/18/2017 11:24 am : link
is where he will rank when he's actually considered. Favre was enshrined six years after he retired and Warner took 8 years. Even if he were a better case than Warner, and even if Favre waited longer because perhaps people didn't know if he were actually retired, I can't imagine Eli would get enshrined for at least 5 or 6 years until after he retired. Where will his numbers be at that point? What other QBs may have multiple SB rings by then?
He's already in  
David B. : 10/18/2017 11:25 am : link
The haters will make sure he won't be first ballot.
I really don't think he'll make it  
JOrthman : 10/18/2017 11:44 am : link
And that has nothing to do with his resume. He doesn't seem to be well thought of in the media and general public, specifically those that vote and seasons like this only make the doubters come out more.
RE: I really don't think he'll make it  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 11:50 am : link
In comment 13654867 JOrthman said:
Quote:
And that has nothing to do with his resume. He doesn't seem to be well thought of in the media and general public, specifically those that vote and seasons like this only make the doubters come out more.


They can't justify keeping him out without losing their legitimacy.
it's anecdotal  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/18/2017 11:52 am : link
and perhaps selective memory, but it seems in this past year, I have seen more casual references on Twitter from NFL writers to Eli as a HOFer.
RE: the concern about his stats of accumulation  
Enzo : 10/18/2017 11:54 am : link
In comment 13654840 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
is where he will rank when he's actually considered. Favre was enshrined six years after he retired and Warner took 8 years. Even if he were a better case than Warner, and even if Favre waited longer because perhaps people didn't know if he were actually retired, I can't imagine Eli would get enshrined for at least 5 or 6 years until after he retired. Where will his numbers be at that point? What other QBs may have multiple SB rings by then?

agree. There might be a few years right after he retires where his career numbers are going to look good - but that might not last as long as current guys continue to accumulate stats at a higher rate.
RE: I really don't think he'll make it  
Enzo : 10/18/2017 11:57 am : link
In comment 13654867 JOrthman said:
Quote:
And that has nothing to do with his resume. He doesn't seem to be well thought of in the media and general public, specifically those that vote and seasons like this only make the doubters come out more.

true. He's already clearly a notch below certain contemporaries like Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers - and I think it's safe to say that certain media types see him as another level below guys like Ben and Rivers. And there are some real pricks who are in that room every year where they vote on the HOF.
He's a HOFer in my book  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/18/2017 12:00 pm : link
but with how QBs are protected, will his iron man streak be as impressive 10 years from now (when he's considered)?

What if Rivers passes him, or say, Matt Ryan?
RE: RE: I really don't think he'll make it  
JOrthman : 10/18/2017 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13654872 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13654867 JOrthman said:


Quote:


And that has nothing to do with his resume. He doesn't seem to be well thought of in the media and general public, specifically those that vote and seasons like this only make the doubters come out more.



They can't justify keeping him out without losing their legitimacy.


I don't know what to say other then, outside of this board he is not discussed in that light. Regardless of what I or anyone on here thinks, very few outside of Giants fandom parrot those thoughts.
RE: RE: I really don't think he'll make it  
JOrthman : 10/18/2017 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13654882 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13654867 JOrthman said:


Quote:


And that has nothing to do with his resume. He doesn't seem to be well thought of in the media and general public, specifically those that vote and seasons like this only make the doubters come out more.


true. He's already clearly a notch below certain contemporaries like Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers - and I think it's safe to say that certain media types see him as another level below guys like Ben and Rivers. And there are some real pricks who are in that room every year where they vote on the HOF.


Which kills me, because I don't see how people put him so far behind Ben and Rivers. Ben has a slight edge on some stats and thats it and Rivers has no resume beyond the regular season. In fact, I was just watching a show today where they put Rivers and Ben ahead of him as locks and I have no idea why.
RE: RE: RE: I really don't think he'll make it  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13654885 JOrthman said:
Quote:
In comment 13654872 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13654867 JOrthman said:


Quote:


And that has nothing to do with his resume. He doesn't seem to be well thought of in the media and general public, specifically those that vote and seasons like this only make the doubters come out more.



They can't justify keeping him out without losing their legitimacy.



I don't know what to say other then, outside of this board he is not discussed in that light. Regardless of what I or anyone on here thinks, very few outside of Giants fandom parrot those thoughts.


If you can find anybody with a similar resume, both statistcially, with the number of championships he's one, and with the longevity of starting every game, you have a case.

But there isn't one.
won, not one.  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 12:06 pm : link
.
Beyond the statistical and hardware resume, look at these storylines:  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 12:09 pm : link
Only person to ever best Brady and Belichick in the Superbowl, twice, including 18-0.

Was part of the arguably the greatest play in NFL history.

He and his brother were back to back Superbowl MVP's in 2006 and 2007, and that will likely never happen again.

Not to mention, the Manning name and Manning family. Canton would benefit from having an exhibit on them.
RE: Beyond the statistical and hardware resume, look at these storylines:  
JOrthman : 10/18/2017 12:17 pm : link
In comment 13654893 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Only person to ever best Brady and Belichick in the Superbowl, twice, including 18-0.

Was part of the arguably the greatest play in NFL history.

He and his brother were back to back Superbowl MVP's in 2006 and 2007, and that will likely never happen again.

Not to mention, the Manning name and Manning family. Canton would benefit from having an exhibit on them.


I'm not the one to make the argument to, I don't have a vote and if I did I'd vote the same way as you. What I'm telling you is despite what your quoting the voting members never seem to put him in the HOF discussion now, so why would they down the road?
RE: Beyond the statistical and hardware resume, look at these storylines:  
WideRight : 10/18/2017 12:17 pm : link
In comment 13654893 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Only person to ever best Brady and Belichick in the Superbowl, twice, including 18-0.

Was part of the arguably the greatest play in NFL history.

He and his brother were back to back Superbowl MVP's in 2006 and 2007, and that will likely never happen again.

Not to mention, the Manning name and Manning family. Canton would benefit from having an exhibit on them.


This is what counts. It is about fame, not necessarily counting stats (although some can be famous for that too, like Farve's consecutive game streak). Eli left his mark on the game for slaying the beast - Brady and Belichek
- who will obviously be in. Eli will go in as a compliment to them, not because he was a dominant player like his brother (he wasn't and never will be).

The Steelers  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/18/2017 12:31 pm : link
had Dick LeBeau and a stable defense for the first half of Ben's career (so he was always in the playoffs).

He has then had Todd Haley the last 5 seasons designing a potent offense and he has had weapons throughout the entire process (Antonio Brown, Heath Miller, LeVeon Bell).
We have beaten this horse to death too many times to count  
hassan : 10/18/2017 12:36 pm : link
Believing he will make it vs being a lock. The relevance of aggregate stats vs previous generations and what his standing will look like as passing gets easier still.

I will say this: if he is on more bad Giants teams and his record as a starter moves closer to .500 he will face another challenge.

And of the multiple sb winners who are in, his case will be the weakest. Nothing wrong with being the worst of a damn good bunch but the comparisons to them may ironically hurt his case.

I'd like to see him make it in and believe his clutch play is easily his card in. But he is definitely a unique case.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I really don't think he'll make it  
Enzo : 10/18/2017 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13654888 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13654885 JOrthman said:


Quote:


In comment 13654872 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13654867 JOrthman said:


Quote:


And that has nothing to do with his resume. He doesn't seem to be well thought of in the media and general public, specifically those that vote and seasons like this only make the doubters come out more.



They can't justify keeping him out without losing their legitimacy.



I don't know what to say other then, outside of this board he is not discussed in that light. Regardless of what I or anyone on here thinks, very few outside of Giants fandom parrot those thoughts.



If you can find anybody with a similar resume, both statistcially, with the number of championships he's one, and with the longevity of starting every game, you have a case.

But there isn't one.

stats are largely era dependent. And the stats argument can (and will) be held against him by certain voters who will bring up his INTs and completion %. Regardless, you're not going to find many comparables simply because Eli is such a unique case (which may get held against him). How many 2x super bowl winning QBs were mostly never considered among the top 3-4 active QBs at any time during their career? Other than 2011, how many times could you say Eli was among the top 5 QBs at his position in a given season? We all know the pro bowl is BS but Eli has only gone 4x. And that's from a guy who's been home more often than not in January.

I think he eventually gets in. But those that think it's slam dunk are delusional.
I think he's borderline  
fkap : 10/18/2017 12:45 pm : link
in the second half of his career, he hasn't managed to take his team anywhere. The Giants have been a mediocre team. a great QB makes a mediocre team good. Eli doesn't do that. His high passes have got a lot of people hurt, or blows the play. He routinely has issues with hitting a player in stride.

two magical seasons is his hallmark. other than that, it's a whole lot of not making playoffs, and one and dones. when paired with the (borderline) HOF TC. I'll take those two rings, but I also recognize that Eli has led his team nowhere (by which I mean not being anything but marginally competitive) far too often. Forget the stats. I rarely get the impression that he carries the team, or elevates the team. he's a darn good QB, but it's been a long time since "relax, I got this". the longer he plays, the more the memories of those fabulous seasons are going to fade.

I think he needs one really good year, not only with personal stat success, but with offense success around him, for him to be a shoe-in for the HOF. He's knocking on the door, and the sounds of footsteps on the other side coming toward it, but the door hasn't opened yet.
History will be kinder to Eli Manning  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 12:49 pm : link
than the NFL's current fans are.
I think he'll get in  
jcn56 : 10/18/2017 12:52 pm : link
but I think the writers will be dicks and he'll end up missing the first ballot, just like they did with Strahan.
RE: I think he'll get in  
Enzo : 10/18/2017 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13654943 jcn56 said:
Quote:
but I think the writers will be dicks and he'll end up missing the first ballot, just like they did with Strahan.

think about Strahan. Other than Reggie, he's the best two-way DE of the last 40 years and he went out with a ring and even HE didn't get in right away. There's just too many miserable curmudgeons and midwestern hicks in that room. If anything, Eli's fame and that he played in NY will work against him.
There are 3 QBs from the same era who will get in before Eli  
Ivan15 : 10/18/2017 1:11 pm : link
Brady, Brees and Roethlisberger. I think Eli is behind those 3 but you could argue that Eli could move ahead of Ben if he accomplishes any of many potential achievements.

It seems unlikely that any two of them will be elected in the same year.

Do you think 4 QBs from the same era will get in? With Rodgers also potentially coming up too?

I hope Eli makes it but I don't think it is a sure thing. More like 50-50 if he doesn't reach another major achievement.
RE: There are 3 QBs from the same era who will get in before Eli  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 1:13 pm : link
In comment 13654961 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
Brady, Brees and Roethlisberger. I think Eli is behind those 3 but you could argue that Eli could move ahead of Ben if he accomplishes any of many potential achievements.

It seems unlikely that any two of them will be elected in the same year.

Do you think 4 QBs from the same era will get in? With Rodgers also potentially coming up too?

I hope Eli makes it but I don't think it is a sure thing. More like 50-50 if he doesn't reach another major achievement.


Elway, Marino, and Jim Kelly, the vaunted QB class of 1983 are all in. Eli and Roethlisberger's accomplishments stack up to those. Same Draft class, 4 Championships between them.
And Elway, Marino, and Kelly....  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 1:15 pm : link
also had Joe Montana, and Steve Young, and Warren Moon, and Brett Favre in from the same or overlapping era.
Oh, and Troy Aikman.  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 1:15 pm : link
.
He beat the undefeated team in the Superbowl...  
TheEvilLurker : 10/18/2017 1:16 pm : link
Eli's definitely in.
RE: History will be kinder to Eli Manning  
Devon : 10/18/2017 1:25 pm : link
In comment 13654942 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
than the NFL's current fans are.


History is going to look at him as a very durable guy with two highly improbable titles and what will likely be a barely .500 record that was his era's turnover king, with below average for his era rate stats. The subjective narrative stuff won't be much kinder, given how entrenched it is/will be -- hell the case I've seen a couple HOF writers make for Coughlin as a HOFer is largely based on him somehow winning two titles with Eli at QB; that's a huge snapshot into how they view him and it's not close to well.

It shouldn't have ended up this way, it's honestly not fair, but that's what how his career has played out post SB 46 has done. Some of you are putting on some blinders with this and are going to end up just as disappointed as I imagine folks were the first few years with Simms not getting in, before acceptance finally hit.
The lack of an O-line  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/18/2017 1:31 pm : link
for the last half of his career made it much, much harder for him because it only further degrades his rate stats and inhibits his chance to have some high-powered seasons to showcase his talent.

If he had a great O-line, weapons, and mind like Shanahan, there's no reason he couldn't have put up the same kind of numbers Matt Ryan did last year. It's just a matter of circumstance and environment.
His era's turnover king? Here are the all time INT Leaders  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 1:31 pm : link
He will make it but zero chance that he is a first ballot  
NYSports1 : 10/18/2017 1:36 pm : link
I think he will wait years before getting in. He is not thought of highly but the logevity and stats will get him in with the 2sb wins. But the fact that he missed the playoffs a ton and might end the career with missing the playoffs in like 8 of 10 seasons...That is like a career for many qb's.
RE: His era's turnover king? Here are the all time INT Leaders  
Devon : 10/18/2017 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13655002 Britt in VA said:
Quote:


Is that supposed to disprove what I said somehow?

The only three players ahead of him crossed with his career at all. Favre and Peyton both played large chunks before him and his prime, both having much much different narrative support than he does. He's going to easily catch and pass Brees, who will also otherwise have better stats, counting and rate, than he does by a significant margin when it's all told.
You're making a lot of the INT's while ignoring everything else  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 1:57 pm : link
Many of the HOF quarterbacks, or other soon to be HOF quarterbacks, in there now led the league in INT's at least once, if not multiple years.

Brett Favre 3x
Warren Moon 2x
Drew Brees 1x
Roethlisberger 1x
Peyton 1x
Jim Kelly 1x
Dan Marino 1x


Did not hurt them.

Link - ( New Window )
You can't cherry pick one thing.  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 2:00 pm : link
It's an entire body of work, and he has it.

Top Ten in Passing Yards
Top Ten in TD's
Top Ten in Completions
Top Ten in 4th Quarter Comebacks
Not in the Top 10 in INT's
Two Superbowl Championships
Two Superbowl MVP's
Iron Man Streak
And you want to talk about career records?  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 2:04 pm : link
Warren Moon didn't have a problem getting in with a 102-101 record, and he didn't have any Superbowls to pair with it. And he's 13th all time INT's.
Warren Moon vs. Eli Manning  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 2:16 pm : link

Warren Moon through 203 Career Starts:

3,988-of-6,823 (58.4 percent) for 49,325 yards, 291 touchdowns and 233 interceptions.

25 fumbles lost.

Passer rating: 80.9

102-101 Regular Season Record, 3-7 Playoff Record

Led the league in INT's twice

Eli Manning through 207 Career Starts

4220 of 7046, (59.9 percent) for 49,680 yards, 329 touchdowns and 220 INT's.

25 Fumbles Lost

Passer Rating 83.9

109-96, 8-4 Playoff Record, 2 Time Superbowl MVP

Led the league in INT's three times


Justify keeping Eli out.
Haha  
ryanmkeane : 10/18/2017 2:25 pm : link
so now the narrative is Eli did nothing to win our two SB's? I guess we forgot about every game before those two SB's, including two of his best performances of all time, at Green Bay (250 yards in -30 weather) and at San Fran where he single handidly willed us to the Super Bowl. During each of those SB runs, he threw a total of 2 picks combined. But yeah, sure.
RE: And you want to talk about career records?  
NYSports1 : 10/18/2017 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13655065 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Warren Moon didn't have a problem getting in with a 102-101 record, and he didn't have any Superbowls to pair with it. And he's 13th all time INT's.


Does the era Moon played in with how the defense was allowed to play not count? The qb's today have a huge advantage over the qb's of the past due to rules heavily favoring the offenses
RE: RE: And you want to talk about career records?  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 2:33 pm : link
In comment 13655117 NYSports1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13655065 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Warren Moon didn't have a problem getting in with a 102-101 record, and he didn't have any Superbowls to pair with it. And he's 13th all time INT's.



Does the era Moon played in with how the defense was allowed to play not count? The qb's today have a huge advantage over the qb's of the past due to rules heavily favoring the offenses


The goalposts will always be moving, won't they?
total INTs is a simple way to look  
Enzo : 10/18/2017 2:38 pm : link
at it but doesn't tell the whole picture. Going by INT%, he's way down the list of active QBs...far below the likes of Rodgers, Ben, Brady, Rivers, etc. He's down with the scrubs.
RE: RE: RE: And you want to talk about career records?  
Enzo : 10/18/2017 2:39 pm : link
In comment 13655132 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13655117 NYSports1 said:


Quote:


In comment 13655065 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Warren Moon didn't have a problem getting in with a 102-101 record, and he didn't have any Superbowls to pair with it. And he's 13th all time INT's.



Does the era Moon played in with how the defense was allowed to play not count? The qb's today have a huge advantage over the qb's of the past due to rules heavily favoring the offenses



The goalposts will always be moving, won't they?

yes - towards context and nuance.
You mean cherrypicking.  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 2:39 pm : link
.
Find me one, just one similar Quarterback with Eli's resume  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 2:41 pm : link
that is NOT in the HOF.

And don't even try Jim Plunkett.
Why is this even a discussion?  
ryanmkeane : 10/18/2017 2:43 pm : link
Dude has 2 SB, 2 SB MVPs, 6th all time in passing yards, and the most winning New York Giants QB of all time. What is there to say?
In my opinion, not a damn thing  
Matt M. : 10/18/2017 2:50 pm : link
He is already a HOF. He is in the top 10 or on the cusp of just about every QB stat. He is also ahead of his peers in most categories. Plus, those 2 rings should be enough.
And remember this...  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 2:56 pm : link
in those two playoff runs, he beat:

The Number one seed in the NFC on the road (Dallas 13-3 2007 and Green Bay 15-1 2011)
The Number two seed in the NFC on the road (Green Bay 13-3 2007 and San Francisco 13-3 2011)
And the Number one seed in the AFC in the Superbowl (Patriots 16-0 2007, Patriots 13-3 2011)

BOTH TIMES.
And that was as a 10-6 and 9-7 Wildcard Team.  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 2:57 pm : link
Chew on that.
So he may never have been the best....  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 2:57 pm : link
but he beat the best.

Multiple times.
Bottom line, there are a billion reasons on this very thread....  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 2:59 pm : link
why he should be HOF that are stone cold facts...

And a handful of reasons that he shouldn't like "people don't like him".
RE: Find me one, just one similar Quarterback with Eli's resume  
Greg from LI : 10/18/2017 3:03 pm : link
In comment 13655153 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
that is NOT in the HOF.

And don't even try Jim Plunkett.


Actually, I can't think of another QB who career was remotely like Eli's in any way. He probably was never one of the top 5 QBs in any one season. Outside of the two SB runs, he's never won another playoff game. His performances could vary wildly in quality.

And yet he did play brilliantly in two separate underdog runs to championships, something no other QB other than those clearly in the top historical echelon at the position have done. His career is unique, that's for sure.
RE: RE: Find me one, just one similar Quarterback with Eli's resume  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 3:07 pm : link
In comment 13655214 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13655153 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


that is NOT in the HOF.

And don't even try Jim Plunkett.



Actually, I can't think of another QB who career was remotely like Eli's in any way. He probably was never one of the top 5 QBs in any one season. Outside of the two SB runs, he's never won another playoff game. His performances could vary wildly in quality.

And yet he did play brilliantly in two separate underdog runs to championships, something no other QB other than those clearly in the top historical echelon at the position have done. His career is unique, that's for sure.


If Joe Namath is in the HOF for The Guarantee, then Eli should be in there for 18-1, which is the modern day version of that upset.
Moon was of a different era and had a much different narrative or even  
Devon : 10/18/2017 3:09 pm : link
mystique than Eli does/will.

If I voted for the HoF, once Warner went in, Eli would have been a lock, but I don't.

You're presenting a case that the guys that do -- other than maybe King and Glauber -- aren't going to look at or value higher than the negative one against him and are seemingly being oblivious to how firmly entrenched the negative image/perception of him is now. He's a joke to the media at large, fans (including many/most Giant fans) think he's basically a luckier Jay Cutler or Joe Flacco and won't even give him the credit he deserves for 2011, and other players consistently show that they don't think much of or respect him (including many that played with him, given how comparatively frequently you'll see ex-teammates take shots at him). None of that is going to change by the time he's up for consideration, especially given how his career is likely to end and his statistical case, relative to his era and what stats are increasingly being weighted for QBs, simply isn't good enough to override it. There's going to be no out-swelling of support from any of these parties to push the committee in his favor.

It's not fair, the Giants pretty much blowing the second half of his career led us here and so much of that isn't his fault, but it's also not fair TO isn't in or Strahan had to wait a year.
Perception does not matter in this case.  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 3:14 pm : link
His resume is too strong.

If they keep him out on perception, they run the risk of losing legitimacy.
Perception keeps him out of 1st ballot....  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 3:15 pm : link
nothing more.
Bottom line...  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 3:19 pm : link
if you were a HOF voter and somebody put his file on your desk with nothing but the facts with no name attached, you have to vote him in, and you would.
hah, you're making the Namath case to me?  
Greg from LI : 10/18/2017 3:21 pm : link
That's funny, because I ended up on the receiving end of a whole lotta blowback from the elderly crowd several years ago when I suggested that Joe Namath was the most overrated player in NFL history and didn't belong in Canton.

In any case, though, I can't disagree that Eli belongs if Namath does. He certainly has a much stronger case for inclusion.
Not putting TO in kills their legitimacy. They still aren't doing it.  
Devon : 10/18/2017 3:22 pm : link
Not putting a guy widely viewed even by most of his own fanbase as Jim Plunkett 2.0 (however ridiculous and it is ridiculous) won't. Few will care outside of pockets of Giant fans. Most will likely agree/applaud it and keep it moving.
RE: Not putting TO in kills their legitimacy. They still aren't doing it.  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 3:23 pm : link
In comment 13655250 Devon said:
Quote:
Not putting a guy widely viewed even by most of his own fanbase as Jim Plunkett 2.0 (however ridiculous and it is ridiculous) won't. Few will care outside of pockets of Giant fans. Most will likely agree/applaud it and keep it moving.


Well I guess we'll see, won't we.
I will say this though  
Greg from LI : 10/18/2017 3:23 pm : link
If you give Phil Simms the receivers Eli has had, and place him in the pass-happy environment of the 2000s, he's the better QB and would be taking the express line to Canton. No doubt in my mind.
RE: Bottom line...  
Enzo : 10/18/2017 3:38 pm : link
In comment 13655246 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
if you were a HOF voter and somebody put his file on your desk with nothing but the facts with no name attached, you have to vote him in, and you would.

so naive...
don't think you tried to answer this one:  
Enzo : 10/18/2017 3:41 pm : link
Other than 2011, how many times could you say Eli was among the top 5 QBs at his position in a given season?

Adding to this...how many years he was OUTSIDE the top 10?
RE: Perception does not matter in this case.  
Enzo : 10/18/2017 3:45 pm : link
In comment 13655237 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
His resume is too strong.

his cumulative statistical resume is impressive NOW. Will it always be that way? Probably not. His rates stats are not comparable to the slam dunk HOFers of his era. But I guess you just want to ignore all this? I can promise you that voters won't.
Quote:
If they keep him out on perception, they run the risk of losing legitimacy.

Seems like you are unfamiliar with the HOF's history of excluding players who most would deem slam dunks - several for ridiculous reasons.
Why is it on me to provide all the proof?  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 3:52 pm : link
I've provided enough proof to justify him being in.

It's you cherry pickers and goalpost movers that are asking questions, but not providing answers/data.

Burden of proof is on you to prove he doesn't belong
I won't hold my breath.  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 3:55 pm : link
All 2 time Superbowl winning quarterbacks are in the HOF with the exception of Jim Plunkett.
And if you're going to compare Eli's career to Jim Plunkett's career  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 3:55 pm : link
your opinion is invalid.
RE: RE: Perception does not matter in this case.  
Matt M. : 10/18/2017 3:59 pm : link
In comment 13655280 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13655237 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


His resume is too strong.


his cumulative statistical resume is impressive NOW. Will it always be that way? Probably not. His rates stats are not comparable to the slam dunk HOFers of his era. But I guess you just want to ignore all this? I can promise you that voters won't.


Quote:


If they keep him out on perception, they run the risk of losing legitimacy.


Seems like you are unfamiliar with the HOF's history of excluding players who most would deem slam dunks - several for ridiculous reasons.
How are they not comparable to the slam dunk HOFers of his era? He trails Brady, his brother, and Brees who are all older. He is ahead of his 2 closest peers in Rivers and Roethlisberger in most categories.
Posting again for emphasis, or you can continue to ignore it  
Britt in VA : 10/18/2017 4:01 pm : link
Quote:
Numbers don't lie: Why Giants QB Eli Manning is a lock for Hall of Fame

Posted July 10, 2017 at 08:12 AM | Updated July 10, 2017 at 08:33 AM

By Dan Duggan | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

Sometimes we don't appreciate what's in front of us. That seems to be the case with Giants quarterback Eli Manning.

Manning gets picked apart more than any other two-time Super Bowl MVP. Then again, there are very few players that would even qualify for such criticism. Manning, Terry Bradshaw, Bart Starr, Joe Montana and Tom Brady are the only players to win multiple Super Bowl MVP awards.

As much as some want to dismiss Manning as not being worthy of such elite company, his career stats show that he's much more than some average quarterback who got hot during two Super Bowl runs.

A review of the NFL's career passing stats revealed the same names repeatedly in the top 10. And Manning was right there among a collection of the best quarterbacks ever. Here's a review of where Manning currently ranks in all of the major passing categories with a look at where he could wind up on the leader boards if he stays healthy and maintains his level of play during the final three seasons of his contract:

PASSING YARDS

Where he ranks: 8th

1. Peyton Manning: 71,940
2. Brett Favre: 71, 838
3. Drew Brees: 66,111
4. Tom Brady: 61,582
5. Dan Marino: 61,361
6. John Elway: 51,475
7. Warren Moon: 49,325
8. Eli Manning: 48,218
9. Fran Tarkenton: 47,003
10. Ben Roethlisberger: 46,814

Where he could rank after 2017

Manning should easily pass Moon to move into seventh place this season. He needs 3,258 yards to jump Elway for sixth place, which is close to a slam dunk. Manning hasn't thrown for less than 3,818 yards since the 2008 season. His career ceiling is likely the fifth spot. Marino has 13,143 more yards, so Manning will need three very productive seasons or four solid seasons to surpass the former Dolphin.

PASSING TOUCHDOWNS

Where he ranks: 7th

1. Peyton Manning: 539
2. Brett Favre: 508
3. Drew Brees: 465
4. Tom Brady: 456
5. Dan Marino: 420
6. Fran Tarkenton: 342
7. Eli Manning: 320
8. Philip Rivers: 314
9. Ben Roethlisberger: 301
10. John Elway: 300

Where he could rank after 2017

Sixth place is well within reach, as Manning needs 23 touchdowns to pass Tarkenton. Manning has thrown at least 23 touchdowns in 10 of his 12 seasons as a full-time starter. Once again, catching Marino at No. 5 is likely Manning's career ceiling. Marino has 100 more touchdown passes, so Manning will likely need four solid seasons to jump the Miami legend.

PASSES COMPLETED

Where he ranks: 7th

1. Brett Favre: 6,300
2. Peyton Manning: 6,125
3. Drew Brees: 5,836
4. Tom Brady: 5,244
5. Dan Marino: 4,967
6. John Elway: 4,123
7. Eli Manning: 4,072
8. Warren Moon: 3,988
9. Drew Bledsoe: 3,839
10. Philip Rivers: 3,811

Where he could rank after 2017

Manning could leap frog Elway into sixth place within the first two or three games, but he won't get any higher on the list this season. Manning should move into fifth place if he plays three more seasons.

PASSES ATTEMPTED

Where he ranks: 7th

1. Brett Favre: 10,169
2. Peyton Manning: 9,380
3. Drew Brees: 8,758
4. Dan Marino: 8,358
5. Tom Brady: 8,224
6. John Elway: 7,250
7. Eli Manning: 6,825
8. Warren Moon: 6,823
9. Drew Bledsoe: 6,717
10. Vinny Testaverde: 6,701

Where he could rank after 2017

Manning is a lock to pass Elway for sixth place this season. Brady figures to continue to climb the list, but Manning should pass Marino if he plays three more seasons. That would likely leave Manning at No. 5 overall.

PASSES INTERCEPTED

Where he ranks: 21st

Many probably expected Manning to be higher on this list, but he's all the way down at 21 behind Favre, Tarkenton, Marino, Peyton Manning, Elway, Moon and Brees among the players frequently in the top 10 in the other categories.

Where he could rank after 2017

Manning, who has 215 career interceptions, should jump quite a few spots this season. He figures to get to at least the 16th spot and he could move up to No. 15 if he throws more than 18 interceptions this season. Manning could end up in the top six if he continues his current pace for three more seasons.

GAMES STARTED

Where he ranks: 10th

1. Brett Favre: 298
2. Peyton Manning: 265
3. Dan Marino: 240
4. Fran Tarkenton: 239
5. Tom Brady: 235
6. Drew Brees: 232
7. John Elway: 231
8. Vinny Testaverde: 214
9. Warren Moon: 203
10. Eli Manning: 199

Where he could rank after 2017

As long as he stays healthy, Manning will move into eighth place on this list in 2017. He'll match Elway for seventh if he starts every game over the next two seasons. Manning will pass Tarkenton and Marino if he continues his consecutive starts streak for the next three seasons. That should leave Manning in fifth overall, assuming Brees and Brady play at least one more season.

4TH QUARTER COMEBACKS

Where he ranks: 7th

1. Peyton Manning: 45
2. Tom Brady: 39
t-3. Dan Marino: 36
t-3. Johnny Unitas: 36
5. John Elway: 35
6. Joe Montana: 31
t-7. Brett Favre: 30
t-7. Eli Manning: 30
t-7. Fran Tarkenton: 30
10. Ben Roethlisberger: 29

Where he could rank after 2017

It's impossible to project fourth-quarter comebacks, but Manning has averaged more than two per seasons throughout his career. So, a jump to the sixth spot is a reasonable expectation for this season.

IT'S NOT ALL GOOD ...

Obviously, Manning's longevity has played a major role in his ascension up the career leader boards. He doesn't fare as well in some of the categories that don't reward longevity. He ranks 40th in passer rating (83.7) and tied for 43rd in completion percentage (59.7). Still, he's ahead of Elway, Marino, Moon and Tarkenton in completion percentage, and his passer rating is better than Elway, Moon and Tarkenton.

HE'S A LOCK FOR CANTON

Debating Manning's Hall of Fame-worthiness is silly. He's a two-time Super Bowl MVP who could rank in the top five of every major passing category by the end of his career. Every other quarterback repeatedly in the top 10 is in the Hall of Fame or is a lock to make it. That includes quarterbacks who don't have a postseason resume that compares to Manning's.


Football isn't baseball where numbers mean everything, but it's impossible to ignore Manning's stats. Longevity obviously plays a role, but only great quarterbacks play long enough to amass such numbers and Manning's durability is another quality that adds to his value.

Manning is a lock for the Hall of Fame. The only question remaining is if he makes it on the first ballot.


Link - ( New Window )
People call..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/18/2017 4:02 pm : link
him a stat compiler like he doesn't have any other accolades. That's the most perplexing part.

Vinny Testeverde was a stat compiler. Dave Kreig was a stat compiler. Mark Brunell was a stat compiler. Eli is a two time SB MVP who will also finish in the top 10 of nearly every passing category.

If he's a stat compiler, you can pretty much say that about any guy who has been under center for more than 12 years.
One more point,  
oldog : 10/18/2017 4:13 pm : link
he ain't done yet.
All those are compiling stats, not rate.  
Devon : 10/18/2017 4:42 pm : link
When adjusted for his era, his passer rating, completion %, y/a, etc are absolutely middling at best and, whether you like it or not, there's an increasing focus put on those over counting stats, probably even more do going forward.

In comment 13655318 oldog said:
Quote:
he ain't done yet.


There's nothing he's going to realistically do in the time he has left that will change how he's viewed.

Unless he escapes this team and goes on to win a third title elsewhere in the few years he has left, his story is told.
RE: I will say this though  
WillVAB : 10/18/2017 5:02 pm : link
In comment 13655252 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
If you give Phil Simms the receivers Eli has had, and place him in the pass-happy environment of the 2000s, he's the better QB and would be taking the express line to Canton. No doubt in my mind.


Too injury prone.
They would have a hard time  
ThatLimerickGuy : 10/18/2017 5:06 pm : link
putting in any other QB that comes after him until they get him in.

He is a 2nd ballot hall of famer. Narrative on his propensity for INT's (which is true) plus his goofy face plus anti-NY bias prevents him from going in 1st ballot, but the HOF voters are numbers reliant guys- they can't keep him out.
RE: People call..  
Matt M. : 10/18/2017 5:12 pm : link
In comment 13655300 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
him a stat compiler like he doesn't have any other accolades. That's the most perplexing part.

Vinny Testeverde was a stat compiler. Dave Kreig was a stat compiler. Mark Brunell was a stat compiler. Eli is a two time SB MVP who will also finish in the top 10 of nearly every passing category.

If he's a stat compiler, you can pretty much say that about any guy who has been under center for more than 12 years.
Plus, compilers are generally guys who were good, but not great, for an inordinate number of years. Your examples are perfect. Eli is playing right with his peers and is not only in the top 10 of virtually every category while still in his 30s, but he is ahead of his immediate peers, who are both regular Pro Bowlers and one is a multiple SB winner.
Greg in LI  
hassan : 10/18/2017 5:23 pm : link
Is correct to me. In fact when you adjust stats for era Simms numbers are comparable to Eli's. There was an article about how mark Rypien and Phil simms were probably Eli's best comparisons for career body of work. I'll find and post.

I believe Phil probably IS Eli's closest comp career wise-- 2 sbs and mvp of superbowl(of course Phil got the 2nd ring but did not play), never all-pro but up there often-more very good that great. Personally believe Phil should be considered given his record and importance to nyg 80s team.
The article Britt posts  
hassan : 10/18/2017 5:33 pm : link
Is full of issues. His passing pct is better than players from the 80s? Better be! If a factor was applied to his qb rating that adjusted for era he would be far lower as well than 40th overall.

RE: Greg in LI  
WillVAB : 10/18/2017 8:21 pm : link
In comment 13655403 hassan said:
Quote:
Is correct to me. In fact when you adjust stats for era Simms numbers are comparable to Eli's. There was an article about how mark Rypien and Phil simms were probably Eli's best comparisons for career body of work. I'll find and post.

I believe Phil probably IS Eli's closest comp career wise-- 2 sbs and mvp of superbowl(of course Phil got the 2nd ring but did not play), never all-pro but up there often-more very good that great. Personally believe Phil should be considered given his record and importance to nyg 80s team.


You can play that game all day long. Simms didn't have the receivers but he played with a historically great defense his entire career and a HoF TE his entire career.

Simms was a good QB but he simply missed too much time due to injury and doesn't have the numbers to justify HoF.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 10/18/2017 9:14 pm : link
Eli would get my vote. Longevity, the rings, the Super Bowl MVPs. I'm not as confident as others that the guys who vote will see it that way, though.

The other thing I can see keeping him out is if they decide to be stricter on QBs than anticipated. I'd be mad if Ben gets in but Eli doesn't. But both being excluded due to a higher threshold would make some sense to me. Rodgers, Brees, and Brady being the only active guys to get in (and maybe Ryan if he wins a Super Bowl and another MVP), for example (excluding the post-2010 draftees here).

The case against Eli is simple, though: He's only been a top five QB once (2011). I don't think it's sufficient to keep him out.

Eli's had an extremely bizzare career. To Greg's point, I don't think there's a good comp. But I do think Eli is more deserving than a few that are already in.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 10/18/2017 9:15 pm : link
I also dont think voters will give a shit about supporting cast. They are mostly media guys, their analysis will be superficial.
RE: RE: History will be kinder to Eli Manning  
Route 9 : 10/18/2017 11:11 pm : link
In comment 13654993 Devon said:
Quote:
In comment 13654942 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


than the NFL's current fans are.



History is going to look at him as a very durable guy with two highly improbable titles and what will likely be a barely .500 record that was his era's turnover king, with below average for his era rate stats. The subjective narrative stuff won't be much kinder, given how entrenched it is/will be -- hell the case I've seen a couple HOF writers make for Coughlin as a HOFer is largely based on him somehow winning two titles with Eli at QB; that's a huge snapshot into how they view him and it's not close to well.

It shouldn't have ended up this way, it's honestly not fair, but that's what how his career has played out post SB 46 has done. Some of you are putting on some blinders with this and are going to end up just as disappointed as I imagine folks were the first few years with Simms not getting in, before acceptance finally hit.


What a nonsensical post...
LOL  
Route 9 : 10/18/2017 11:14 pm : link
The "Since 2012" Eli not being good argument.

Hmm...can we clarify why he's not having the best of years behind that wonderful offensive line Reese has built for him since that time? I think any quarterback would look like trash behind the 2013 line guarding for Eli...
If you have to pull up stats and count rings  
NYSports1 : 10/18/2017 11:41 pm : link
To determine if a player gets in than you are not a HOF in my eyes at least. Being considered a HOF should be easy to determine and not based on having compiled stats in a league where it is designed to have the QB succeed far more than before Eli was drafted. Eli is comparable to Andy Dalton the last 7 years. A bit more tds and a bit more picks...Eli had his first half career include terrible games but 2 glorious sb seasons but second half it has gone down hill fast..1 trip to the playoffs in about 7 years or so. It might turn out that Eli will miss the playoffs in about 8 out of his last 10 seasons. If stats matter than that is a glaring one...Which is the last qb to get in having that on the resume?

5-10 years after Eli retires, his states will be crushed by the likes of Stafford and Matt Ryan....And I dont think those guys are lock HOF

So stats mean little now due to the league being a passing league where Tight Ends are now receivers and there are no full backs and the defense cant touch you. Qb's are protected like never before...If a qb cant put up numbers in this league than they dont belong in an NFL field.

Simms in todays game would have awesome numbers with OBJ Plax, Shockey, Tiki, Toomer, etc etc
RE: LOL  
NYSports1 : 10/18/2017 11:44 pm : link
In comment 13655864 Route 9 said:
Quote:
The "Since 2012" Eli not being good argument.

Hmm...can we clarify why he's not having the best of years behind that wonderful offensive line Reese has built for him since that time? I think any quarterback would look like trash behind the 2013 line guarding for Eli...


No a qb like Eli who is a stone footed qb and throw quick to avoid hits would suck behind this line...Rodgers has a terrible line...he is playing without his tackles this year and yet carries the team...No run game either..No OBJ type of talent...Eli can win for sure but you need to build a superior oline...A qb who makes his money needs to make others better and carry the team
WillVAB  
hassan : 10/18/2017 11:50 pm : link
thats bs. Simms had 3 years of dynamic Bavaro. Bavaro started getting dinged and lost effectiveness. And he was not a hall of famer.

I bring him up because Simms is probably the second most important player on a Giants team that won 2. If every steeler just about made it from the 70s why is it a stretch to say Simms deserved it if a Warren Moon, who was a stat accumulator galore with no post season success whatsoever in?

No one is Rodgers  
Route 9 : 10/19/2017 12:08 am : link
Plus, he's been hurt a few times, unlike Eli.

Rodgers is a HOF BTW, who else can be compared to him from this era besides Brady and Peyton?

This is a discussion about Eli for HOF
Eli even had decent numbers in 2014-2015  
Route 9 : 10/19/2017 12:10 am : link
With the shitty offensive line and the defense was pitiful those years
Stat compiling..  
JOrthman : 10/19/2017 6:18 am : link
Everyone assumes current QB's will pass him, but I think some of you aren't considering just how hard it is to play long at that position. Everyone considered luck the next Peyton Manning when he entered the league, but now he can't even stay on the field. There is no guarantee anyone passes him or can play as long. I think some of you don't realize just how hard it is for any player, especially a QB to play this long in the league.
Ha, so true.....  
Britt in VA : 10/19/2017 7:48 am : link
Andrew Luck, another BBI hall of fame lock.
Eli should and will make the HOF for a variety of reasons  
hitdog42 : 10/19/2017 8:18 am : link
the top will be defeating the Pats twice to win SB MVP. This is the most under-appreciated accomplishment possibly in sports.

His stats are a better show of longevity than greatness when you adjust for the way the league is now. But the stats are still impressive and warrant eventually getting in.

There are several things the HOF and the rest of the country do NOT care about however... that homers need to realize
--- they dont grade QBs based on the OL they played with
--- they dont blame every INT on Manningham, Randle, or some other random global event

Nobody has implied that they did on this thread:  
Britt in VA : 10/19/2017 8:31 am : link
Quote:
--- they dont grade QBs based on the OL they played with
--- they dont blame every INT on Manningham, Randle, or some other random global event


I think he'll get in for the reasons you mentioned, and I don't think any of the negatives are enough to keep him out so I don't dwell on them, INT's included.
People gloss over...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/19/2017 8:47 am : link
INT's or minimize them as being part of the gunslinger attitude.

Hell, we have one poster here who inexplicably craps on Eli's performances in the SB's as being just another guy on the field who actually defended some of Favre's killer INT's in playoff games as being a product of him trying to make plays.

He was talking more about an INT against New Orleans, but one of the worst postseason INT's I've ever seen ist he one he threw to Webster in OT.

Just a gunslinger....
Once they voted in Moon and Warner  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 10/19/2017 8:48 am : link
It will be very hard for Eli not to get in, but look how long is took Harry Carson to get in.

The HOF really isn't that relevant anymore, so many guys I feel who are non-elite are in.
WTF  
Thegratefulhead : 10/19/2017 12:28 pm : link
Some of you people just can’t admit you are wrong. It is a truly terrible thing to happen to person. It really inhibits your ability to learn and grow as person. You never liked Eli and you are going to die hanging on to your opinion that he was never that good of a QB and has been fortunate. You look stupid making that argument.
He beat the best QB and coach of his generation twice in the SB and was MVP both times. Both Superbowl runs he played on the road against HoF QBs and won. He played well against the best teams at the most important times. He will finish in the top in nearly every major passing category. THE STREAK.
If you are on this site most of all us are all are Giants fans. You think we would have won more Superbowls with another QB here? Favre and Rodgers were on better team playing at home and Eli outplayed them. If you are Giants fan and you think Eli is not that good or doesn’t deserve to be in the HoF go find the nearest mirror and take a good long look at a real asshole.
Eli and Ben will get in together  
spike : 10/19/2017 12:33 pm : link
on their second ballet.

Brady, Rodgers, and Brees are the other older QBs deserving the HOF membership.

Matt Ryan needs some rings to get in.
He is not a lock...  
EricJ : 10/19/2017 12:39 pm : link
and not because I would not vote for him. It is because we are dealing with the people who vote. Lots of guys took forever. Harry Carson a better LB than Eli is a QB had to twist arms to get in. Art Monk should have been first ballot. Just two examples.

So, this has nothing to do with stats. There is a serious perception out there about Eli and it is negative. I seriously hope he adds at least one more incredible moment to his resume.
voters can be tricky  
spike : 10/19/2017 12:46 pm : link
Terrell Owens shouldve been in long ago, despite his personality.
Terrell..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/19/2017 2:01 pm : link
Owens first year of eligibility was this past year!
RE: Terrell..  
Greg from LI : 10/19/2017 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13656470 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Owens first year of eligibility was this past year!


and that was how many long months ago? The man has waited long enough!
.....  
Route 9 : 10/19/2017 2:18 pm : link
It really is kind of… strange how underrated Eli’s streak is. Do you want backup playing games down the stretch for you? As good as Rodgers is, he’s been hurt before and his team immediately suffered (like in 2013 when Green Bay got lucky the Bears fucked the one chance they had to win that division), same way the Colts did when Peyton got injured and missed the 2011 season. Eli has never caused a problem and missed 15-18 worth of games in his career like Ben Roethlisberger did, or even more so like Romo, who has missed a crucial game, such the 2013 finale vs Philly. Now, as valuable as he is to the Colts, Andrew Luck is missing games.

Either way, Eli has been so valuable to his team over the past few years. That offensive line since 2010 has been pitiful, and he still shows up for every game and plays. I think his ability to start all of these games in a row is what makes up for his errors for the summary of his career, especially when everyone is bitching about stats or whatever irrelevant garbage (such as passer rating, speaking of Romo, and Kirk Cousins is like 6th or 7th all-time isn’t he? Lol). Even though Eli is currently number 7 all time in touchdown throws and passing yards.

Everyone keeps saying these guys are going to pass Eli, but no one can play that long, stay healthy to reach this point of his career and he is 36. I can still remember even after winning the Super Bowl there were still lists that had Flacco, Ryan, and Josh Freeman (lol) as top QBs over Eli Manning.
If we’re talking about Ben Roethlisberger going into the HOF, I might have this silly idea Eli fucking Manning is getting in as well.

I think someone always mentions it (Britt in VA), the first thing you think of Eli Manning is that game winning drive vs the Patriots in Super Bowl 42. Then, he did it again in Super Bowl 46. Good night.
RE: Terrell..  
Britt in VA : 10/19/2017 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13656470 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Owens first year of eligibility was this past year!


Ha, didn't even think of that.

Yeah, they've been holding him back!
Not only was last year TO's first year of eligibility....  
Britt in VA : 10/19/2017 2:42 pm : link
but he made the final cut of 15! Cut down from 94 nominees. In his first year of eligibility!

Long overdue, indeed!

Link - ( New Window )
The greatfulhead  
hassan : 10/19/2017 3:16 pm : link
What an emotional post.....

First of all stating the case against him is not to believe he does not deserve it. I'm of opinion he should get in......but there are points against him, like efficiency numbers and perception.

And stating he's a unique case is not wrong. He was and is an inconsistent player whose great streaks were legendary and alone worth the hall. But still a cut below the multiple sb winners in the hall at qb.

Eli is still the most valuable player on Giants even if players like Collins or odb are on the team who are better.
if part of the balloting is based on inconsistency  
Jersey55 : 10/19/2017 4:21 pm : link
the Eli should make it easily.....
RE: if part of the balloting is based on inconsistency  
Devon : 10/19/2017 4:38 pm : link
In comment 13656659 Jersey55 said:
Quote:
the Eli should make it easily.....


When people bring up how bad perception/narrative is for him, remember comments like this from Giant fans, not even the media that's spent a lot of the last two days laughing at him and any of the few who'd dare defend him after that overrated poll.

I don't think most of the people in this thread who have been saying he's questionable or won't get in are saying it because they have some sort of agenda against him. It's because they (including myself) realize how badly he's viewed (media, fans, players) at this point, now and in total, outside of not exactly large pockets of fans. It doesn't matter if it's fair or accurate or how many counting stats you post over and over again.
And TO not getting in first ballot is a joke. He shouldn't wait at all  
Devon : 10/19/2017 4:41 pm : link
Though it does show you how much narrative/perception/spin matter when it comes down to it when even one of the undisputed greatest WRs of all time is snubbed.
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