... what else does Eli need to accomplish to make an election to the HOF (not necessarily first ballot) a virtual lock?
1) Winning League MVP (Yes, but very unlikely)
2) Another Super Bowl appearance (playing well, but in a losing cause)
3) X more seasons making the playoffs (2?)
4) X more playoff wins (4?)
5) Longevity - playing at a high level X more years (4?)
I think longevity is Eli's best shot. Many of us take exception to Jerry Rice being voted the GOAT, but his longevity is one the arguments made in support of his vote as the GOAT.
If Eli is the Giant starting QB into his 40s, likely putting him in the top 5 in most regular season QB stats, is that enough?
I don't pay too close attention to HOF's in any sport, but based on what I know about entrance into Canton I would think Eli already has the goods.
How many 2x SB MVP's aren't in the HOF? and then add in top 7 (at least) for passing yards and TD's. Never mind the Ironman streak.
how is that not enough to get in? why should he have to do more than that?
Posted July 10, 2017 at 08:12 AM | Updated July 10, 2017 at 08:33 AM
lock for Hall of Fame
Posted July 10, 2017 at 08:12 AM | Updated July 10, 2017 at 08:33 AM
By Dan Duggan | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
Sometimes we don't appreciate what's in front of us. That seems to be the case with Giants quarterback Eli Manning.
Manning gets picked apart more than any other two-time Super Bowl MVP. Then again, there are very few players that would even qualify for such criticism. Manning, Terry Bradshaw, Bart Starr, Joe Montana and Tom Brady are the only players to win multiple Super Bowl MVP awards.
As much as some want to dismiss Manning as not being worthy of such elite company, his career stats show that he's much more than some average quarterback who got hot during two Super Bowl runs.
A review of the NFL's career passing stats revealed the same names repeatedly in the top 10. And Manning was right there among a collection of the best quarterbacks ever. Here's a review of where Manning currently ranks in all of the major passing categories with a look at where he could wind up on the leader boards if he stays healthy and maintains his level of play during the final three seasons of his contract:
PASSING YARDS
Where he ranks: 8th
1. Peyton Manning: 71,940
2. Brett Favre: 71, 838
3. Drew Brees: 66,111
4. Tom Brady: 61,582
5. Dan Marino: 61,361
6. John Elway: 51,475
7. Warren Moon: 49,325
8. Eli Manning: 48,218
9. Fran Tarkenton: 47,003
10. Ben Roethlisberger: 46,814
Where he could rank after 2017
Manning should easily pass Moon to move into seventh place this season. He needs 3,258 yards to jump Elway for sixth place, which is close to a slam dunk. Manning hasn't thrown for less than 3,818 yards since the 2008 season. His career ceiling is likely the fifth spot. Marino has 13,143 more yards, so Manning will need three very productive seasons or four solid seasons to surpass the former Dolphin.
PASSING TOUCHDOWNS
Where he ranks: 7th
1. Peyton Manning: 539
2. Brett Favre: 508
3. Drew Brees: 465
4. Tom Brady: 456
5. Dan Marino: 420
6. Fran Tarkenton: 342
7. Eli Manning: 320
8. Philip Rivers: 314
9. Ben Roethlisberger: 301
10. John Elway: 300
Where he could rank after 2017
Sixth place is well within reach, as Manning needs 23 touchdowns to pass Tarkenton. Manning has thrown at least 23 touchdowns in 10 of his 12 seasons as a full-time starter. Once again, catching Marino at No. 5 is likely Manning's career ceiling. Marino has 100 more touchdown passes, so Manning will likely need four solid seasons to jump the Miami legend.
PASSES COMPLETED
Where he ranks: 7th
1. Brett Favre: 6,300
2. Peyton Manning: 6,125
3. Drew Brees: 5,836
4. Tom Brady: 5,244
5. Dan Marino: 4,967
6. John Elway: 4,123
7. Eli Manning: 4,072
8. Warren Moon: 3,988
9. Drew Bledsoe: 3,839
10. Philip Rivers: 3,811
Where he could rank after 2017
Manning could leap frog Elway into sixth place within the first two or three games, but he won't get any higher on the list this season. Manning should move into fifth place if he plays three more seasons.
PASSES ATTEMPTED
Where he ranks: 7th
1. Brett Favre: 10,169
2. Peyton Manning: 9,380
3. Drew Brees: 8,758
4. Dan Marino: 8,358
5. Tom Brady: 8,224
6. John Elway: 7,250
7. Eli Manning: 6,825
8. Warren Moon: 6,823
9. Drew Bledsoe: 6,717
10. Vinny Testaverde: 6,701
Where he could rank after 2017
Manning is a lock to pass Elway for sixth place this season. Brady figures to continue to climb the list, but Manning should pass Marino if he plays three more seasons. That would likely leave Manning at No. 5 overall.
PASSES INTERCEPTED
Where he ranks: 21st
Many probably expected Manning to be higher on this list, but he's all the way down at 21 behind Favre, Tarkenton, Marino, Peyton Manning, Elway, Moon and Brees among the players frequently in the top 10 in the other categories.
Where he could rank after 2017
Manning, who has 215 career interceptions, should jump quite a few spots this season. He figures to get to at least the 16th spot and he could move up to No. 15 if he throws more than 18 interceptions this season. Manning could end up in the top six if he continues his current pace for three more seasons.
GAMES STARTED
Where he ranks: 10th
1. Brett Favre: 298
2. Peyton Manning: 265
3. Dan Marino: 240
4. Fran Tarkenton: 239
5. Tom Brady: 235
6. Drew Brees: 232
7. John Elway: 231
8. Vinny Testaverde: 214
9. Warren Moon: 203
10. Eli Manning: 199
Where he could rank after 2017
As long as he stays healthy, Manning will move into eighth place on this list in 2017. He'll match Elway for seventh if he starts every game over the next two seasons. Manning will pass Tarkenton and Marino if he continues his consecutive starts streak for the next three seasons. That should leave Manning in fifth overall, assuming Brees and Brady play at least one more season.
4TH QUARTER COMEBACKS
Where he ranks: 7th
1. Peyton Manning: 45
2. Tom Brady: 39
t-3. Dan Marino: 36
t-3. Johnny Unitas: 36
5. John Elway: 35
6. Joe Montana: 31
t-7. Brett Favre: 30
t-7. Eli Manning: 30
t-7. Fran Tarkenton: 30
10. Ben Roethlisberger: 29
Where he could rank after 2017
It's impossible to project fourth-quarter comebacks, but Manning has averaged more than two per seasons throughout his career. So, a jump to the sixth spot is a reasonable expectation for this season.
IT'S NOT ALL GOOD ...
Obviously, Manning's longevity has played a major role in his ascension up the career leader boards. He doesn't fare as well in some of the categories that don't reward longevity. He ranks 40th in passer rating (83.7) and tied for 43rd in completion percentage (59.7). Still, he's ahead of Elway, Marino, Moon and Tarkenton in completion percentage, and his passer rating is better than Elway, Moon and Tarkenton.
HE'S A LOCK FOR CANTON
Debating Manning's Hall of Fame-worthiness is silly. He's a two-time Super Bowl MVP who could rank in the top five of every major passing category by the end of his career. Every other quarterback repeatedly in the top 10 is in the Hall of Fame or is a lock to make it. That includes quarterbacks who don't have a postseason resume that compares to Manning's.
Football isn't baseball where numbers mean everything, but it's impossible to ignore Manning's stats. Longevity obviously plays a role, but only great quarterbacks play long enough to amass such numbers and Manning's durability is another quality that adds to his value.
Manning is a lock for the Hall of Fame. The only question remaining is if he makes it on the first ballot.
I thought it would be okay to post the article because it's from the summer.
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3 games away from the second-longest consecutive games played record
2 super bowls and 2 super bowl MVP trophies (both against the GOAT).
he's 100% in, no question.
2x Superbowl MVP
2x GW 4th quarter comeback drives to win both SB's
Out dueled the #1 best QB/player ever in both SB's (Brady)
Iron Man
Walter Peyton Man of the Year
He's a lock as long as he keeps it in cruise control for another two years but i suspect he plays at least four MORE years.
They can't justify keeping him out without losing their legitimacy.
agree. There might be a few years right after he retires where his career numbers are going to look good - but that might not last as long as current guys continue to accumulate stats at a higher rate.
true. He's already clearly a notch below certain contemporaries like Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers - and I think it's safe to say that certain media types see him as another level below guys like Ben and Rivers. And there are some real pricks who are in that room every year where they vote on the HOF.
What if Rivers passes him, or say, Matt Ryan?
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And that has nothing to do with his resume. He doesn't seem to be well thought of in the media and general public, specifically those that vote and seasons like this only make the doubters come out more.
They can't justify keeping him out without losing their legitimacy.
I don't know what to say other then, outside of this board he is not discussed in that light. Regardless of what I or anyone on here thinks, very few outside of Giants fandom parrot those thoughts.
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And that has nothing to do with his resume. He doesn't seem to be well thought of in the media and general public, specifically those that vote and seasons like this only make the doubters come out more.
true. He's already clearly a notch below certain contemporaries like Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers - and I think it's safe to say that certain media types see him as another level below guys like Ben and Rivers. And there are some real pricks who are in that room every year where they vote on the HOF.
Which kills me, because I don't see how people put him so far behind Ben and Rivers. Ben has a slight edge on some stats and thats it and Rivers has no resume beyond the regular season. In fact, I was just watching a show today where they put Rivers and Ben ahead of him as locks and I have no idea why.
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In comment 13654867 JOrthman said:
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And that has nothing to do with his resume. He doesn't seem to be well thought of in the media and general public, specifically those that vote and seasons like this only make the doubters come out more.
They can't justify keeping him out without losing their legitimacy.
I don't know what to say other then, outside of this board he is not discussed in that light. Regardless of what I or anyone on here thinks, very few outside of Giants fandom parrot those thoughts.
If you can find anybody with a similar resume, both statistcially, with the number of championships he's one, and with the longevity of starting every game, you have a case.
But there isn't one.
Was part of the arguably the greatest play in NFL history.
He and his brother were back to back Superbowl MVP's in 2006 and 2007, and that will likely never happen again.
Not to mention, the Manning name and Manning family. Canton would benefit from having an exhibit on them.
Was part of the arguably the greatest play in NFL history.
He and his brother were back to back Superbowl MVP's in 2006 and 2007, and that will likely never happen again.
Not to mention, the Manning name and Manning family. Canton would benefit from having an exhibit on them.
I'm not the one to make the argument to, I don't have a vote and if I did I'd vote the same way as you. What I'm telling you is despite what your quoting the voting members never seem to put him in the HOF discussion now, so why would they down the road?
Was part of the arguably the greatest play in NFL history.
He and his brother were back to back Superbowl MVP's in 2006 and 2007, and that will likely never happen again.
Not to mention, the Manning name and Manning family. Canton would benefit from having an exhibit on them.
This is what counts. It is about fame, not necessarily counting stats (although some can be famous for that too, like Farve's consecutive game streak). Eli left his mark on the game for slaying the beast - Brady and Belichek
- who will obviously be in. Eli will go in as a compliment to them, not because he was a dominant player like his brother (he wasn't and never will be).
He has then had Todd Haley the last 5 seasons designing a potent offense and he has had weapons throughout the entire process (Antonio Brown, Heath Miller, LeVeon Bell).
I will say this: if he is on more bad Giants teams and his record as a starter moves closer to .500 he will face another challenge.
And of the multiple sb winners who are in, his case will be the weakest. Nothing wrong with being the worst of a damn good bunch but the comparisons to them may ironically hurt his case.
I'd like to see him make it in and believe his clutch play is easily his card in. But he is definitely a unique case.
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In comment 13654872 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13654867 JOrthman said:
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And that has nothing to do with his resume. He doesn't seem to be well thought of in the media and general public, specifically those that vote and seasons like this only make the doubters come out more.
They can't justify keeping him out without losing their legitimacy.
I don't know what to say other then, outside of this board he is not discussed in that light. Regardless of what I or anyone on here thinks, very few outside of Giants fandom parrot those thoughts.
If you can find anybody with a similar resume, both statistcially, with the number of championships he's one, and with the longevity of starting every game, you have a case.
But there isn't one.
stats are largely era dependent. And the stats argument can (and will) be held against him by certain voters who will bring up his INTs and completion %. Regardless, you're not going to find many comparables simply because Eli is such a unique case (which may get held against him). How many 2x super bowl winning QBs were mostly never considered among the top 3-4 active QBs at any time during their career? Other than 2011, how many times could you say Eli was among the top 5 QBs at his position in a given season? We all know the pro bowl is BS but Eli has only gone 4x. And that's from a guy who's been home more often than not in January.
I think he eventually gets in. But those that think it's slam dunk are delusional.
two magical seasons is his hallmark. other than that, it's a whole lot of not making playoffs, and one and dones. when paired with the (borderline) HOF TC. I'll take those two rings, but I also recognize that Eli has led his team nowhere (by which I mean not being anything but marginally competitive) far too often. Forget the stats. I rarely get the impression that he carries the team, or elevates the team. he's a darn good QB, but it's been a long time since "relax, I got this". the longer he plays, the more the memories of those fabulous seasons are going to fade.
I think he needs one really good year, not only with personal stat success, but with offense success around him, for him to be a shoe-in for the HOF. He's knocking on the door, and the sounds of footsteps on the other side coming toward it, but the door hasn't opened yet.
think about Strahan. Other than Reggie, he's the best two-way DE of the last 40 years and he went out with a ring and even HE didn't get in right away. There's just too many miserable curmudgeons and midwestern hicks in that room. If anything, Eli's fame and that he played in NY will work against him.
It seems unlikely that any two of them will be elected in the same year.
Do you think 4 QBs from the same era will get in? With Rodgers also potentially coming up too?
I hope Eli makes it but I don't think it is a sure thing. More like 50-50 if he doesn't reach another major achievement.
It seems unlikely that any two of them will be elected in the same year.
Do you think 4 QBs from the same era will get in? With Rodgers also potentially coming up too?
I hope Eli makes it but I don't think it is a sure thing. More like 50-50 if he doesn't reach another major achievement.
Elway, Marino, and Jim Kelly, the vaunted QB class of 1983 are all in. Eli and Roethlisberger's accomplishments stack up to those. Same Draft class, 4 Championships between them.
History is going to look at him as a very durable guy with two highly improbable titles and what will likely be a barely .500 record that was his era's turnover king, with below average for his era rate stats. The subjective narrative stuff won't be much kinder, given how entrenched it is/will be -- hell the case I've seen a couple HOF writers make for Coughlin as a HOFer is largely based on him somehow winning two titles with Eli at QB; that's a huge snapshot into how they view him and it's not close to well.
It shouldn't have ended up this way, it's honestly not fair, but that's what how his career has played out post SB 46 has done. Some of you are putting on some blinders with this and are going to end up just as disappointed as I imagine folks were the first few years with Simms not getting in, before acceptance finally hit.
If he had a great O-line, weapons, and mind like Shanahan, there's no reason he couldn't have put up the same kind of numbers Matt Ryan did last year. It's just a matter of circumstance and environment.
Is that supposed to disprove what I said somehow?
The only three players ahead of him crossed with his career at all. Favre and Peyton both played large chunks before him and his prime, both having much much different narrative support than he does. He's going to easily catch and pass Brees, who will also otherwise have better stats, counting and rate, than he does by a significant margin when it's all told.
Brett Favre 3x
Warren Moon 2x
Drew Brees 1x
Roethlisberger 1x
Peyton 1x
Jim Kelly 1x
Dan Marino 1x
Did not hurt them.
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Top Ten in Passing Yards
Top Ten in TD's
Top Ten in Completions
Top Ten in 4th Quarter Comebacks
Not in the Top 10 in INT's
Two Superbowl Championships
Two Superbowl MVP's
Iron Man Streak
Warren Moon through 203 Career Starts:
3,988-of-6,823 (58.4 percent) for 49,325 yards, 291 touchdowns and 233 interceptions.
25 fumbles lost.
Passer rating: 80.9
102-101 Regular Season Record, 3-7 Playoff Record
Led the league in INT's twice
Eli Manning through 207 Career Starts
4220 of 7046, (59.9 percent) for 49,680 yards, 329 touchdowns and 220 INT's.
25 Fumbles Lost
Passer Rating 83.9
109-96, 8-4 Playoff Record, 2 Time Superbowl MVP
Led the league in INT's three times
Justify keeping Eli out.
Does the era Moon played in with how the defense was allowed to play not count? The qb's today have a huge advantage over the qb's of the past due to rules heavily favoring the offenses