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NFL ratings down 7.5 percent for the season

gidiefor : Mod : 10/18/2017 1:15 pm
Quote:
When it comes to the week-in, week-out NFL ratings, skilled P.R. professionals know how to make bad numbers look good and/or good numbers look bad. Cumulative, all-encompassing numbers are more difficult to spin.

And here are the cumulative, all-encompassing numbers for NFL ratings through six weeks, via Darren Rovell of ESPN.com: The audience is down by 7.5 percent.

Specifically, 15 million people on average watched games for the first six weeks of the year. Last year, the number was 16.2 million.


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Or stop your bitching even  
jcn56 : 10/19/2017 8:56 am : link
Despite being amazed at stupidity, that's no excuse for poor grammar.
MLB beat thursday night football  
WideRight : 10/19/2017 9:05 am : link
I don't know if thats ever happened before.

Though MLB struck gold by having the four biggest media markets all make the division series. If it gets to Dodgers-Yanks then I'm thinking its a fix.
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RE: 16-4  
BillKo : 10/19/2017 9:14 am : link
In comment 13655780 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
He didn't turn it over but he wasn't good. Couldn't move the team. Couldn't get first downs. The worst QB in the NFL converting on 3rd down. Sacked often. Couldn't score. By halftime they were getting blown out consistently last season.


Maybe the team just plain sucked?
RE: People are telling pollers they stopped watching bc of protests...  
section125 : 10/19/2017 9:17 am : link
In comment 13655896 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
It's not the only reason, maybe not even the biggest reason, for the ratings drop, and certainly there is some virtue signaling. But to dismiss all of them, and every one of your Facebook friends who says he is no longer watching, as liars is silly. It is clearly A factor.


We at BBI have a very North East POV. Go to the "flyover" states and see their opinion - 50+% of the country lives there and midwesterners don't think like us. You cannot dismiss the protest factor because it doesn't fit your/our NE POV. It is a big country west of the Delaware River.
I agree with the players position of inequality to a point. I disagree with the kneeling. It has no effect on whether I watch the NFL or not.

To me, the over saturation of game days and quality of play causes me to not watch non-Giants games. I rarely watch MNF or SNF and always forget about TNF. I could care less about London games. TD - commercial - KO - commercial is garbage and I hated sitting through those mid December at the stadium. Now it is just annoying.

There are many reasons that ratings are down and the protests are at least a reason and maybe the impetus for those who were on the edge to begin with (just the straw that broke the camel's back.)
This is so obviously related to streaming and media consumption  
Sonic Youth : 10/19/2017 9:37 am : link
When will people (especially old execs) realize that the utility of Neilsen ratings falls more and more each year?

RE: It is the entire thought process of the players  
Sonic Youth : 10/19/2017 9:42 am : link
In comment 13655860 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
That many people can't stand.

If you make millions to play a game and yet you protest racial inequality in this country then you are a walking contradiction.

The NFL is predominantly black as it pertains to the players. These guys are celebrities and could collectivEly do SO much for the plight of the poor black kid that they feel is targeted by the police. They travel to different cities every week with a certain amount of free time in each city. How many players have met with local police chiefs to discuss the issues? Including preseason 10 teams will have been through Chicago. How many players did ANYTHING about stopping the senseless killing of black kids there? 1% if that.

The anthem protest is like me standing in front of my house on fire with my fist up and yelling for all of my neighbors to get their garden hoses to help. If you want change then MAKE change. Don't pass it off on someone else by kneeling. That is a cop out.

The bigger problem is how those like tbone here (awesome guy by the way) are just baited and indoctrinated by the mass media hysteria over an agenda. It is specifically designed to keep minorities in a lower social class and it is disgusting. There are legitimate political science papers on the topic and Noam Chomsky speaks on it. The media waits with bated breath until an Eric Garner or Michael Brown happens to fan the flames. This keeps us divided politically and controlled as a population.

See.....I don't speak about it here but I am myself a minority. I am mixed race. You know why I don't feel oppressed every day? Because I don't ACT like I am oppressed every day. I don't use my racial background as a crutch when things don't break my way. I don't see myself as a 2nd class citizen and because of that nobody treats me like one. I've been called Uncle Tom and Oreo but that doesn't affect me because I do what is right and take responsibility for my actions. If you called me an Eagles fan I would be pissed though.
This post is such fucking garbage.

And the handwringing about "Chicago" needs to be called out for where it came from. Chicago has the 28th highest murder per capita rate - behind cities like Philadelphia. So why has it been singled out? I can think of a couple reasons...


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RE: RE: People are telling pollers they stopped watching bc of protests...  
jcn56 : 10/19/2017 9:43 am : link
In comment 13656038 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13655896 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:


It's not the only reason, maybe not even the biggest reason, for the ratings drop, and certainly there is some virtue signaling. But to dismiss all of them, and every one of your Facebook friends who says he is no longer watching, as liars is silly. It is clearly A factor.



We at BBI have a very North East POV. Go to the "flyover" states and see their opinion - 50+% of the country lives there and midwesterners don't think like us. You cannot dismiss the protest factor because it doesn't fit your/our NE POV. It is a big country west of the Delaware River.
I agree with the players position of inequality to a point. I disagree with the kneeling. It has no effect on whether I watch the NFL or not.

To me, the over saturation of game days and quality of play causes me to not watch non-Giants games. I rarely watch MNF or SNF and always forget about TNF. I could care less about London games. TD - commercial - KO - commercial is garbage and I hated sitting through those mid December at the stadium. Now it is just annoying.

There are many reasons that ratings are down and the protests are at least a reason and maybe the impetus for those who were on the edge to begin with (just the straw that broke the camel's back.)


I don't think many would deny that there has been *some* impact, it's just a very small component, and nowhere near as large as the people who feel strongly about that topic believe it to be.

We are very different from the flyover states from a philosophical standpoint, but we're also very much alike. Take a look at the game between KC and Pittsburgh last week in Missouri and tell me how many people were too offended to show up to the stadium that day.
RE: This is so obviously related to streaming and media consumption  
jeff57 : 10/19/2017 9:49 am : link
In comment 13656066 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
When will people (especially old execs) realize that the utility of Neilsen ratings falls more and more each year?


Yeah, wondered about that as a reason.
RE: RE: RE: People are telling pollers they stopped watching bc of protests...  
section125 : 10/19/2017 9:50 am : link
In comment 13656077 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13656038 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 13655896 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:


It's not the only reason, maybe not even the biggest reason, for the ratings drop, and certainly there is some virtue signaling. But to dismiss all of them, and every one of your Facebook friends who says he is no longer watching, as liars is silly. It is clearly A factor.



We at BBI have a very North East POV. Go to the "flyover" states and see their opinion - 50+% of the country lives there and midwesterners don't think like us. You cannot dismiss the protest factor because it doesn't fit your/our NE POV. It is a big country west of the Delaware River.
I agree with the players position of inequality to a point. I disagree with the kneeling. It has no effect on whether I watch the NFL or not.

To me, the over saturation of game days and quality of play causes me to not watch non-Giants games. I rarely watch MNF or SNF and always forget about TNF. I could care less about London games. TD - commercial - KO - commercial is garbage and I hated sitting through those mid December at the stadium. Now it is just annoying.

There are many reasons that ratings are down and the protests are at least a reason and maybe the impetus for those who were on the edge to begin with (just the straw that broke the camel's back.)



I don't think many would deny that there has been *some* impact, it's just a very small component, and nowhere near as large as the people who feel strongly about that topic believe it to be.

We are very different from the flyover states from a philosophical standpoint, but we're also very much alike. Take a look at the game between KC and Pittsburgh last week in Missouri and tell me how many people were too offended to show up to the stadium that day.


It is TV ratings that are down, not attendance. You pay $125 per ticket you are going. Your team is in 1st place and playing an ancient rival, you are going. FWIW, somebody had pictures from various games the other day where the Stadiums looked 75%-80% full. I don't know how attendance figures are this year.
I agree that there is more in common than dissimilar, but on political and moral views, they could not be more apart.
RE: RE: RE: playing  
schabadoo : 10/19/2017 9:58 am : link
In comment 13655993 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 13655906 jeff57 said:


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In comment 13655387 Les in TO said:


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the national anthem before a game is a political statement in itself, one that glorifies war in the case of the US star spangled banner. so maybe the tradition of playing the anthem before the game should just go away if the ideas is to not mix politics with sports/entertainment/supposed diversions from the slog of real life.



And the giant flag they drape across the field as well. Why don't they just play the anthem before the players come out.


That flat display of the flag violates the U.S. Flag Code. I'm still waiting for the super-patriots to take their stand against that.


No no no. Surprisingly, the hypocrisy of their Stars and Stripes extra husky khakis never seem to lead to self reflection. They're actually being extra patriotic.
RE: RE: RE: RE: People are telling pollers they stopped watching bc of protests...  
jcn56 : 10/19/2017 10:00 am : link
In comment 13656093 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13656077 jcn56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13656038 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 13655896 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:


It's not the only reason, maybe not even the biggest reason, for the ratings drop, and certainly there is some virtue signaling. But to dismiss all of them, and every one of your Facebook friends who says he is no longer watching, as liars is silly. It is clearly A factor.



We at BBI have a very North East POV. Go to the "flyover" states and see their opinion - 50+% of the country lives there and midwesterners don't think like us. You cannot dismiss the protest factor because it doesn't fit your/our NE POV. It is a big country west of the Delaware River.
I agree with the players position of inequality to a point. I disagree with the kneeling. It has no effect on whether I watch the NFL or not.

To me, the over saturation of game days and quality of play causes me to not watch non-Giants games. I rarely watch MNF or SNF and always forget about TNF. I could care less about London games. TD - commercial - KO - commercial is garbage and I hated sitting through those mid December at the stadium. Now it is just annoying.

There are many reasons that ratings are down and the protests are at least a reason and maybe the impetus for those who were on the edge to begin with (just the straw that broke the camel's back.)



I don't think many would deny that there has been *some* impact, it's just a very small component, and nowhere near as large as the people who feel strongly about that topic believe it to be.

We are very different from the flyover states from a philosophical standpoint, but we're also very much alike. Take a look at the game between KC and Pittsburgh last week in Missouri and tell me how many people were too offended to show up to the stadium that day.



It is TV ratings that are down, not attendance. You pay $125 per ticket you are going. Your team is in 1st place and playing an ancient rival, you are going. FWIW, somebody had pictures from various games the other day where the Stadiums looked 75%-80% full. I don't know how attendance figures are this year.
I agree that there is more in common than dissimilar, but on political and moral views, they could not be more apart.


Wait, so this strong philosophical stance only applies when we're talking about TV, not in person? Or against 'ancient rivals'?

That doesn't seem a little off to you?

The photos that Eric posted were all from contests where one (or both) teams were abysmal. People not attending shitty games between bad teams isn't exactly a new development.
another factor  
giantfan2000 : 10/19/2017 10:13 am : link
you have San Diego and St Louis fans who were totally abused by owners
and Oakland fans perhaps too

I am sure they have tuned out of games --


RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: People are telling pollers they stopped watching bc of protests...  
section125 : 10/19/2017 10:26 am : link
In comment 13656108 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13656093 section125 said:




Wait, so this strong philosophical stance only applies when we're talking about TV, not in person? Or against 'ancient rivals'?

That doesn't seem a little off to you?



I don't know about you, but if I hold a ticket that I paid for I'm going. So no it doesn't seem off to me. 7% is not a huge number and like I said it may very well be just the last indignity of several to cause people to tune out. Much easier to not turn on the TV than throw away $300 by not attending. (Were you a season ticket holder?)

My problem (for lack of a better word) is that people don't believe repeated poles showing the same results. For some people anything is a reason to revolt. For others it is a perceived notion that the NFL doesn't care about (or disrespects) them. Shitty product as you say and I agree, constant commercials, too many games and too long and now the protests are just the last of a long line to push these people away.

RE: Tbone  
T-Bone : 10/19/2017 10:31 am : link
In comment 13655900 KWALL2 said:
Quote:


Quote:


Kaep would’ve fit in perfectly in the Titans offense. Matter of fact, it was then not signing him when Mariotta got hurt that pushed him over the edge and file that Collusion complaint (which I think he has no chance of winning by the way).



Who did they sign?

Wasn't there a coaching connection with the player?

The coaches worked with the player. They know what he can do. I'd put my money on that being the deciding factor than any collusion against Kap.


KWALL - I won't be able to participate as much today as I'm busier at work today than I was yesterday.

But to answer your questions, they signed Brandon Weeden.

No, there was no coaching connection (at least not that I found). Mularkey is quoted in the linked article as saying that they decided to go with Weeden because he seemed to be most familiar with the offense due to previous stops.

Again... to not even be called in for a workout over the likes of Weeden, Matt Barkley, Matt McGloin and T.J. Yates (Kaep has at least shown more than all four of those guys combined in the past) tells me that it's more than just football ability that's being counted against him. Even in the article below it states that in the Dolphins' case that Kaep would be a more logical choice than Cutler because of the similar style of play between Kaep and Tannehill.


A bunch of Mularkey? - ( New Window )
I've had tickets, and I've eaten tickets  
jcn56 : 10/19/2017 10:32 am : link
And much more important here is they don't have to eat the entire ticket - they can sell them.

If I believed strongly about a cause, I'd take a loss rather than go to the game. Want to bet that the average price of the tickets last Sunday were well over face value?

I've seen the polls - mostly faulty, conducted with small sample sizes or targeted to get specific results (like most polls).

The data her is very easy to understand - MLB saw a drop of 6%, NFL 7.5%. Network viewership is down across the board. There wasn't some huge drop due to protests, but there was some impact.

The people who know these numbers better than anyone - from ticket sales to merchandise to concessions - the NFL owners - have taken no action on the matter. That should tell you everything you need to know.
RE: I've had tickets, and I've eaten tickets  
section125 : 10/19/2017 11:00 am : link
In comment 13656158 jcn56 said:
Quote:


If I believed strongly about a cause, I'd take a loss rather than go to the game. Want to bet that the average price of the tickets last Sunday were well over face value?



You have good points in the full post, which I edited down for expedience. But as to strongly feeling about a cause - I doubt all but a few feel strongly. 7% is not a big number and you give good reasons why it could be various things or just a statistical anomaly, as NFL numbers were in decline since two years ago, iirc. And I agree that is more than just this. But no matter how you argue around it, the kneeling is bothering more than a few people or it wouldn't be talked about.
RE: RE: I've had tickets, and I've eaten tickets  
jcn56 : 10/19/2017 11:46 am : link
In comment 13656215 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13656158 jcn56 said:


Quote:




If I believed strongly about a cause, I'd take a loss rather than go to the game. Want to bet that the average price of the tickets last Sunday were well over face value?





You have good points in the full post, which I edited down for expedience. But as to strongly feeling about a cause - I doubt all but a few feel strongly. 7% is not a big number and you give good reasons why it could be various things or just a statistical anomaly, as NFL numbers were in decline since two years ago, iirc. And I agree that is more than just this. But no matter how you argue around it, the kneeling is bothering more than a few people or it wouldn't be talked about.


I'm sure it's bothering more than a few people - my point is just that those folks won't take action on that.

Why is it being talked about? Well, because there are people who stand to gain from all this - politicians, media outlets, etc. - they're all benefiting in one way or another.

And it's got nothing to do with demographics - this is inherently American. My favorite example, Chick-Fil-A. Their conservative stances were openly mocked here in NYC, and when there were plans to open up a Manhattan location there were talks of protests, boycotts, etc.

Swing by there one of these days and let me know how that worked out. One of their locations had to close to address some health violations and people lost their shit. Oh, and couple the political stance with some actual, valid health violation concerns, and did the business suffer? Of course not.
My personal take is econ 101 and the  
HBart : 10/19/2017 11:51 am : link
Note that I'm working closely with a sports team now (not NFL) and have discussed the issue with them and assimilated their POV.

Hockey for years struggled on TV because of several things: suitability for tiny low-def TV, 2 intermissions, various rules (since changed) and lack of fan interest outside a core group. The core group was die-hard fans that went to games and followed the sport closely including putting up with the TV situation and finding ways to watch. TV and live viewing are synergistic. Through technology, rule changes, and a boost from extravagant Olympic games hockey was able to put together a better product for fans to sample on TV, and as a result some of those fans went to live games. Once you went to a live game you experienced hockey in its glory including the speed, noise, energy and violence and that created more core fans. And hockey was relatively inexpensive and very fan friendly.

Before the economic meltdown sports were seen as the key to saving television - the last shared experience in an age of time shifting and small & multi screening. After the meltdown, this continued as TV became a more attractive means to watch given the increased price of live attendance. Meanwhile sports executives were "fighting the last war" - adding capacity to live venues, raking in more dollars from TV whenever possible, and raising the cost of attendance in every possible way.

Now, live sports attendance is on the decline because average fans are priced out. Note there will be limited impact here as population keeps growing and there is only so much capacity. Formula One races are the most pricey, extravagant events there is and they sell out regularly. So as we move more toward more polarized groups of haves and have-nots, there will probably be enough haves to attend events live for some time. But - only for premium brands and for that years winners.

In a nutshell. hard-core fans will always attend & watch. Haves will attend when there is cache' associated with it and watch those same teams. Have-nots will be increasingly disenfranchised, attending less and less because of economics and as a result watching less and less. However, most leagues understand that increased globalization will save them (at least so far as TV) if they try hard enough. That's why the NFL wants Europe and Mexico so badly, baseball wants latin America and China so badly, and everyone wants Africa eventually because it's the last bastion of growth. Globalization will probably save most US sports teams but its hard to know given the US's tenuous tightrope walk across the chasm of issues facing our delicate democracy and if we fall off the rope sports aren't likely to be at the top of issues people are worrying about.
RE: RE: RE: I've had tickets, and I've eaten tickets  
section125 : 10/19/2017 12:45 pm : link
In comment 13656302 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13656215 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 13656158 jcn56 said:


Quote:
And it's got nothing to do with demographics - this is inherently American. My favorite example, Chick-Fil-A. Their conservative stances were openly mocked here in NYC, and when there were plans to open up a Manhattan location there were talks of protests, boycotts, etc.

Swing by there one of these days and let me know how that worked out. One of their locations had to close to address some health violations and people lost their shit. Oh, and couple the political stance with some actual, valid health violation concerns, and did the business suffer? Of course not.


It is most certainly demographics. America is a huge country with multiple demographics. NYC and Texas..think there aren't core value differences between the two? Your own example was about demographics - the South were Chik-Fil-A started and NYC/North East.

BTW, just what is inherently American? Sorry missing your point on that...
Sorry - wasn't clear  
jcn56 : 10/19/2017 12:47 pm : link
I meant the inaction isn't due to demographics - both groups really aren't doing anything meaningful to show their disapproval, they're continuing to consume products from both companies. There are obviously huge differences in values/beliefs between the two groups, but as American as apple pie, although they bitch about it constantly, they're not really doing much about it.
RE: Sorry - wasn't clear  
section125 : 10/19/2017 12:51 pm : link
In comment 13656393 jcn56 said:
Quote:
I meant the inaction isn't due to demographics - both groups really aren't doing anything meaningful to show their disapproval, they're continuing to consume products from both companies. There are obviously huge differences in values/beliefs between the two groups, but as American as apple pie, although they bitch about it constantly, they're not really doing much about it.


Ah gotcha - agree. Nation of bitchers.
Kap hit them where it counts.  
HoustonGiant : 10/19/2017 1:08 pm : link
Until this kneeling started, me v the President, etc. ratings had not had this much of a decline.

I believe the nadir was the strike year at ~11%.

The real hypocrisy is protesting a peaceful, protest while viewership isn't affected by Rice KO'ing his girl, Lewis murdering someone and intimidating witnesses, Carruthers murdering, Big Ben the serial rapist, etc.

I would never kneel, but this is Kap's right. He's not a scumbag thug like the players tarnishing the NFL.
I respect  
BocaGiants91 : 10/19/2017 2:06 pm : link
Limerick’s post, and I can see how some would feel that way about players being a walking contradiction, however , what they are doing is speaking up for those who will not or cannot be heard, which is why I am ok with that part.

Keep in mind this is just my opinion. A few thoughts:

1. When does the protest reach it’s conclusion? I’d say most Americans, unless they are under a rock are aware of the issues in this instance. What would be meaningful progress to these players? I know it’s very subjective but the progress on the issue of police brutality towards minorities may be enough for some but not be enough for others when there is progress made.

2. When Trump made his comments on this, that’s when I believe the message of the protests had been fully lost, instead of the issue being at the forefront, the act of protesting itself became the headliner.

3. The NFL is a private business entity. The owners would be well within their rights to make a rule that all players stand for the national anthem. They would not be infringing on any rights. Freedom of speech/expression has nothing to do with it, that only pertains to the government itself sensoring or persecuting individuals and organizations for their views.

4. I respect all sides of this, that’s the beauty of this country, we can all have an opinion, I always think there’s more then one path to a solution, and I think this protested issue has reached the solution stage. Instead of further protests I would be more interested in seeing meaningful discussion and solutions implemented.

Censoring  
BocaGiants91 : 10/19/2017 2:12 pm : link
Not sensoring , in previous post.
Tbone  
KWALL2 : 10/19/2017 2:59 pm : link
Yes I though it was Weeden. His former coach is on the staff and t was talked about this on tiki barbers show about his coach. Tiki mentioned it as a good reason a backup would be signed.
Nothing is going to change  
Thegratefulhead : 10/19/2017 3:27 pm : link
I have friends who are not watching because of the protests. I When you have no legitimate argument against something claim bias against flag. troops or children. Interestingly enough, after they get past the the are disrespecting the flag and our troops, they say something similar to things I have seen echoed here.

"Wealthy young black men could do more" "Prima Donnas" "A privilege to play a game for a living" "Thugs" I had someone tell me that "slaves couldn't quit but they can." Racism is very alive and very real in this country.

What is the goal of a protest? In the simplest, most convenient definition "To get attention" By that definition, this has been the MOST successful protest I HAVE EVER SEEN.

Young black men have gotten old billionaire white men to sit down with and listen to their issues. They have gotten all them except Jerry Jones to agree with them, not force them to stand and to help them get legislation passed to change our social injustice problem.

These young men used their position of fame to help the vulnerable. They did it with great professional risk(see Colin K) They did it peacefully. They did with respect...KNEELING is a symbol of greater respect than standing.

I could not be more proud of these young men. We will see more peaceful protesting in the future because of their success. That is a good thing. Expect more people to kneel at public events to get attention for a cause, the people who hate this particular type of protest have NO ONE to blame but THEMSELVES. It is their outrage and boycotting of games that has made this protest SO SUCCESSFUL. Thanks.
ratings are down for many reasons  
RasputinPrime : 10/19/2017 6:39 pm : link
but also for good reasons.

For my part, the ugly corporate side of the NFL has become too difficult to stomach. The ongoing efforts to marginalize the knowledge of brain injuries for decades is just not something I can get beyond.
RE: RE: People are telling pollers they stopped watching bc of protests...  
Dodge : 10/19/2017 8:49 pm : link
In comment 13656038 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13655896 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:


It's not the only reason, maybe not even the biggest reason, for the ratings drop, and certainly there is some virtue signaling. But to dismiss all of them, and every one of your Facebook friends who says he is no longer watching, as liars is silly. It is clearly A factor.



We at BBI have a very North East POV. Go to the "flyover" states and see their opinion - 50+% of the country lives there and midwesterners don't think like us. You cannot dismiss the protest factor because it doesn't fit your/our NE POV. It is a big country west of the Delaware River.
I agree with the players position of inequality to a point. I disagree with the kneeling. It has no effect on whether I watch the NFL or not.

To me, the over saturation of game days and quality of play causes me to not watch non-Giants games. I rarely watch MNF or SNF and always forget about TNF. I could care less about London games. TD - commercial - KO - commercial is garbage and I hated sitting through those mid December at the stadium. Now it is just annoying.

There are many reasons that ratings are down and the protests are at least a reason and maybe the impetus for those who were on the edge to begin with (just the straw that broke the camel's back.)


I'm in Missouri, last week I was in Wisconsin, few weeks ago I was in Kentucky, then before Kansas and nebraska.

No sports bar I was in gave a shit about the protests other than say they shouldn't do it.

They still watched.

The Midwest isn't some crazy bastion of special people. They just love guns more out here. People are essentially the same.
Bars are a shitty example  
UConn4523 : 10/19/2017 9:12 pm : link
a few may take a stand but most won't want to lose the business. The people who stopped watching don't go to the bars to watch the games, they are at home making time for a sport that has flaws too numerous to list and have hit their limit.
RE: It is the entire thought process of the players  
santacruzom : 10/19/2017 9:17 pm : link
In comment 13655860 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
That many people can't stand.

If you make millions to play a game and yet you protest racial inequality in this country then you are a walking contradiction.



Not if you believe that people are capable of speaking on behalf of other people, including friends and relatives.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Not to say it's a huge element at play  
DisgruntledGiantsfan : 10/19/2017 11:42 pm : link
In comment 13655178 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13655138 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 13655085 Mr. Bungle said:


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In comment 13655005 JonC said:


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but the NFL and its players should separate themselves from politics and potentially negative social activities. You want to protest as a player? Figure out a platform away from doing your job.


The problem with that is that these players (especially star players) are associated with their employers whenever they engage the public arena in any way. There's really no way for them to publicly express their political beliefs fully "away from their jobs."

Wherever they go, and whatever they do, their jobs go with them. (For a completely non-political example, look no further than how last January's infamous boating excursion caused PR problems for the Giants organization.)

And even if players do take political stands outside of the team uniform, we'll still have plenty of yahoos saying, "The only reason we know who the hell you are is because of your football team. So shut up and don't make them look bad."

It's just like Hollywood celebrities. They take political stances in their personal time, and people hate them for it anyway. "That's it! I'll never watch [so-and-so]'s movies ever again!", even though so-and-so might make some pretty damned good movies.

It all comes down to this, "If your politics don't agree with mine, get them out of my face." If all of these NFL players took the protest elsewhere -- even to, say, a public march or something -- once that is broadcast to the masses, there will still be a significant public backlash against them. The anthem/flag component is just a really convenient (and self-righteous) excuse.



For me it comes down to leave politics out of football. I couldn't care less about the politics whether I agree or not.



That's the thing about all this... the politics were never put INTO football. The players kneeling during the anthem has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the game itself. NOTHING. AT. ALL. It's the people saying 'Leave politics out of football!' that are actually the ones bringing politics into it. It's not like Kaep was running for a 30 yard score... stopped short of the goal-line and took a knee against police brutality. It's not like Kaep yelled 'Black Live Matter!' into the camera after completing a pass.

You don't like seeing a guy 'disrespect the flag'? Ok... turn the channel during the anthem and then go back to watching your game. Simple. You don't have to be subjected to seeing someone kneel during the anthem (while you're sitting on your couch eating nachos during it... ah, the irony) and you still get to enjoy watching a sport you love to watch.


Agree. Also, the NFL and the DoD were the ones that put politics into the pre-game when the DoD paid the NFL to have the military put on the goofy pre-game pageantry (which borders on propaganda) and having to watch constant recruitment commercials during broadcasts.
RE: RE: People are telling pollers they stopped watching bc of protests...  
bradshaw44 : 10/20/2017 12:48 am : link
In comment 13656038 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13655896 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:


It's not the only reason, maybe not even the biggest reason, for the ratings drop, and certainly there is some virtue signaling. But to dismiss all of them, and every one of your Facebook friends who says he is no longer watching, as liars is silly. It is clearly A factor.



We at BBI have a very North East POV. Go to the "flyover" states and see their opinion - 50+% of the country lives there and midwesterners don't think like us. You cannot dismiss the protest factor because it doesn't fit your/our NE POV. It is a big country west of the Delaware River.
I agree with the players position of inequality to a point. I disagree with the kneeling. It has no effect on whether I watch the NFL or not.

To me, the over saturation of game days and quality of play causes me to not watch non-Giants games. I rarely watch MNF or SNF and always forget about TNF. I could care less about London games. TD - commercial - KO - commercial is garbage and I hated sitting through those mid December at the stadium. Now it is just annoying.

There are many reasons that ratings are down and the protests are at least a reason and maybe the impetus for those who were on the edge to begin with (just the straw that broke the camel's back.)


This sums it up nicely.
RE: RE: People are telling pollers they stopped watching bc of protests...  
bradshaw44 : 10/20/2017 12:48 am : link
In comment 13656038 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13655896 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:


It's not the only reason, maybe not even the biggest reason, for the ratings drop, and certainly there is some virtue signaling. But to dismiss all of them, and every one of your Facebook friends who says he is no longer watching, as liars is silly. It is clearly A factor.



We at BBI have a very North East POV. Go to the "flyover" states and see their opinion - 50+% of the country lives there and midwesterners don't think like us. You cannot dismiss the protest factor because it doesn't fit your/our NE POV. It is a big country west of the Delaware River.
I agree with the players position of inequality to a point. I disagree with the kneeling. It has no effect on whether I watch the NFL or not.

To me, the over saturation of game days and quality of play causes me to not watch non-Giants games. I rarely watch MNF or SNF and always forget about TNF. I could care less about London games. TD - commercial - KO - commercial is garbage and I hated sitting through those mid December at the stadium. Now it is just annoying.

There are many reasons that ratings are down and the protests are at least a reason and maybe the impetus for those who were on the edge to begin with (just the straw that broke the camel's back.)


This sums it up nicely.
RE: I respect  
bradshaw44 : 10/20/2017 1:26 am : link
In comment 13656482 BocaGiants91 said:
Quote:
Limerick’s post, and I can see how some would feel that way about players being a walking contradiction, however , what they are doing is speaking up for those who will not or cannot be heard, which is why I am ok with that part.

Keep in mind this is just my opinion. A few thoughts:

1. When does the protest reach it’s conclusion? I’d say most Americans, unless they are under a rock are aware of the issues in this instance. What would be meaningful progress to these players? I know it’s very subjective but the progress on the issue of police brutality towards minorities may be enough for some but not be enough for others when there is progress made.

2. When Trump made his comments on this, that’s when I believe the message of the protests had been fully lost, instead of the issue being at the forefront, the act of protesting itself became the headliner.

3. The NFL is a private business entity. The owners would be well within their rights to make a rule that all players stand for the national anthem. They would not be infringing on any rights. Freedom of speech/expression has nothing to do with it, that only pertains to the government itself sensoring or persecuting individuals and organizations for their views.

4. I respect all sides of this, that’s the beauty of this country, we can all have an opinion, I always think there’s more then one path to a solution, and I think this protested issue has reached the solution stage. Instead of further protests I would be more interested in seeing meaningful discussion and solutions implemented.


This is a good post. And I would love for number 4 to come to fruition. Both sides just Protest and Yet i haven’t heard one solution put forth in regards to what both protests want to accomplish. I guess the non game watchers are angling for the players to stand and “show respect” to the military (but the protests aren’t anti military in intent.). The kneelers want some form of social justice, but how do they want it achieved? What’s the end game? This part is what’s frustrating to many of the non watchers. Someone needs to articulate this plan/view before any progress can begin to happen. Just saying cops are targeting minorities and it needs to stop isn’t going to solve this. Lay out a comprehensive plan detailing everything from specific incidents that have taken place and exactly how they can and will fix this kind of incident from happening again. Body cameras is a start, but what next?
RE: RE: this is all about  
japanhead : 10/20/2017 12:31 pm : link
In comment 13655140 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 13655107 japanhead said:


Quote:


politics! just ask eric!



You sound awfully butthurt.


you've surmised that i'm butthurt because eric is a partisan hack? nah man. you've got it all wrong..
It seems the point flew over your head  
JonC : 10/20/2017 1:08 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: this is all about  
bradshaw44 : 10/20/2017 1:15 pm : link
In comment 13657353 japanhead said:
Quote:
In comment 13655140 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 13655107 japanhead said:


Quote:


politics! just ask eric!



You sound awfully butthurt.



you've surmised that i'm butthurt because eric is a partisan hack? nah man. you've got it all wrong..


If Eric is a partisan hack, what does that make you?
The issue, without going too far...  
Dunedin81 : 10/20/2017 1:23 pm : link
Is no one wants to have a conversation. Everyone says let's have a conversation, but that would involve one side acknowledging that the broader run of statistics don't particularly make their case, and the other that it's easy to make light of dignity when it's not your dignity at stake. And one side bandies about their slogans and rallies their partisans and the other side does the same and everyone is convinced their opponents are low information uberpatriots or hate 'Merica. Virtually nobody is honest about this, because being honest would mean acknowledging that certain arguments your side throws up are pure, unadulterated bullshit.
RE: The issue, without going too far...  
bradshaw44 : 10/20/2017 1:33 pm : link
In comment 13657431 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
Is no one wants to have a conversation. Everyone says let's have a conversation, but that would involve one side acknowledging that the broader run of statistics don't particularly make their case, and the other that it's easy to make light of dignity when it's not your dignity at stake. And one side bandies about their slogans and rallies their partisans and the other side does the same and everyone is convinced their opponents are low information uberpatriots or hate 'Merica. Virtually nobody is honest about this, because being honest would mean acknowledging that certain arguments your side throws up are pure, unadulterated bullshit.


This is what i was trying to say. How about instead of all the instigating from one side or another, why not provide a comprehensive plan as to what you would like see happen. Both sides would have to take a good long hard look at themselves and concede on some level because both sides arguments are NOT the end all be all.
RE: RE: RE: RE: this is all about  
japanhead : 10/20/2017 7:15 pm : link
In comment 13657419 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 13657353 japanhead said:


Quote:


In comment 13655140 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 13655107 japanhead said:


Quote:


politics! just ask eric!



You sound awfully butthurt.



you've surmised that i'm butthurt because eric is a partisan hack? nah man. you've got it all wrong..



If Eric is a partisan hack, what does that make you?


i'm not partisan, bro.. i don't have a "side."
RE: The issue, without going too far...  
Gary from The East End : Admin : 10/21/2017 9:15 am : link
In comment 13657431 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
Is no one wants to have a conversation. Everyone says let's have a conversation, but that would involve one side acknowledging that the broader run of statistics don't particularly make their case, and the other that it's easy to make light of dignity when it's not your dignity at stake. And one side bandies about their slogans and rallies their partisans and the other side does the same and everyone is convinced their opponents are low information uberpatriots or hate 'Merica. Virtually nobody is honest about this, because being honest would mean acknowledging that certain arguments your side throws up are pure, unadulterated bullshit.


I'm not sure what your point is here. The data show pretty conclusively that the protests are having little to no effect on ratings. NFL ratings declines are in line with the drop in MLB ratings as well as declines in network ratings generally.

Quite frankly, all the people who assert that the protests are the primary cause of ratings declines are anecdotes from Facebook or their friends or family. Tthe plural of anecdote is not data.

The protest thing didn't really blow up until the President's rally on Alabama on September 22nd, when he encouraged owners to fire players who kneel during the anthem. Prior to the President's statements in Alabama and his subsequent tweets, the player protests were pretty limited.

In week 1 Seahawk Michael Bennett sat during the anthem. Niners Eric Reid took a knee, and teammates put their hands on him. Rams’ Robert Quinn raised his right fist. That was pretty much it.

In week 3, after the President's comments, players from 17 teams participated in some kind of protest.

NOTE: The mention of the President in this post is to put the events in context and is not intended as editorial.

So it's interesting and instructive to note that the biggest decline in NFL ratings was for weeks 1 and 2 when cumulative viewership was down 12.3 and 11.5 percent, respectively, from the previous year. Since week 3, ratings have been steadily improving. The drop noted in the header of this thread represents a narrowing of the gap with 2016.

SNF in week 6, which, as we all know, featured a matchup between the then Broncos and the then winless Giants, delivered a 9.4 rating and 16.2 million viewers on NBC Sunday night, up 16% in ratings and 19% in viewership from Colts-Texans in 2016 (8.1, 13.6M).

http://nypost.com/2017/10/17/nfl-ratings-continue-to-crawl-back-to-normal/
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2017/10/sunday-night-football-ratings-nbc-giants-broncos-week-6/
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: this is all about  
bradshaw44 : 10/21/2017 9:27 am : link
In comment 13657726 japanhead said:
Quote:
In comment 13657419 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


In comment 13657353 japanhead said:


Quote:


In comment 13655140 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 13655107 japanhead said:


Quote:


politics! just ask eric!



You sound awfully butthurt.



you've surmised that i'm butthurt because eric is a partisan hack? nah man. you've got it all wrong..



If Eric is a partisan hack, what does that make you?



i'm not partisan, bro.. i don't have a "side."


You are very offended by Eric’s side. This would put you at odds. Therefore giving you a side.
I’ll admit I’m watching less.  
K-Gun? Pop-Gun : 10/22/2017 8:54 am : link
After being bilked out of $320 (CDN$) for the NFL last year and not having any prime time games, I switched to live streams on reddit.
RE: The NFL ratings drop is like a Rorshach test  
montanagiant : 10/22/2017 9:57 am : link
In comment 13655796 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:
For a lot of people here, what they believe is causing it is based more on their own personal feelings than any kind of objective analysis.

Is is "the quality of the games"? I have a hard time believing that most people who watch football have any substantive opinion on game "quality" beyond "it's a good game when my team wins and a bad game when my team loses"?

Is it CTE/Concussion issues? I doubt many people are even that aware of this and that it makes a big difference either way for people who do.

Is it the protests? The pro and con Kaepernick people? There's a lot of virtue signaling over these issues, but I have a hard time believing that there are really that many sensitive snowflakes out there who can't bear the thought of a few NFL players on their knee for the national anthem so much that they actually skip out on watching a game they would otherwise enjoy.

The bottom line is that TV network ratings are down across the board.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-ratings-premiere-week-20171004-story.html



Quote:


The combined audience for ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and CW for the week of Sept. 25 through Oct. 1 was down 11% from a year ago, continuing the long-term trend of viewers shifting away from watching TV live.



There it is in a nutshell. Live TV viewership is down across the board. That's not my opinion. That's not some story some guy told me. That's based on actual data.

All the rest of this stuff is just noise.

Spot on post. I think each of those you mentioned may be playing a factor into it but it's a minor one. I would also add that the Thursday Night game is it's own worse enemy and a huge drag on the viewership numbers. The other factor that may be causing the decline is that the usual big draws (Dallas, Giants, NE, Pitt, GB..etc..etc)
are not performing as well as they usually do. That will lose you a bunch of the casual fan viewership

But the most telling factor is that Network television in itself is down across the board.
RE: RE: I respect  
montanagiant : 10/22/2017 10:02 am : link
In comment 13657052 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 13656482 BocaGiants91 said:


Quote:


Limerick’s post, and I can see how some would feel that way about players being a walking contradiction, however , what they are doing is speaking up for those who will not or cannot be heard, which is why I am ok with that part.

Keep in mind this is just my opinion. A few thoughts:

1. When does the protest reach it’s conclusion? I’d say most Americans, unless they are under a rock are aware of the issues in this instance. What would be meaningful progress to these players? I know it’s very subjective but the progress on the issue of police brutality towards minorities may be enough for some but not be enough for others when there is progress made.

2. When Trump made his comments on this, that’s when I believe the message of the protests had been fully lost, instead of the issue being at the forefront, the act of protesting itself became the headliner.

3. The NFL is a private business entity. The owners would be well within their rights to make a rule that all players stand for the national anthem. They would not be infringing on any rights. Freedom of speech/expression has nothing to do with it, that only pertains to the government itself sensoring or persecuting individuals and organizations for their views.

4. I respect all sides of this, that’s the beauty of this country, we can all have an opinion, I always think there’s more then one path to a solution, and I think this protested issue has reached the solution stage. Instead of further protests I would be more interested in seeing meaningful discussion and solutions implemented.




This is a good post. And I would love for number 4 to come to fruition. Both sides just Protest and Yet i haven’t heard one solution put forth in regards to what both protests want to accomplish. I guess the non game watchers are angling for the players to stand and “show respect” to the military (but the protests aren’t anti military in intent.). The kneelers want some form of social justice, but how do they want it achieved? What’s the end game? This part is what’s frustrating to many of the non watchers. Someone needs to articulate this plan/view before any progress can begin to happen. Just saying cops are targeting minorities and it needs to stop isn’t going to solve this. Lay out a comprehensive plan detailing everything from specific incidents that have taken place and exactly how they can and will fix this kind of incident from happening again. Body cameras is a start, but what next?

The reason why the NFL can't really force the standing during the Anthem is that even though the teams are Private Entities the vast majority of venues they play in are not. They are for the most part publically funded stadiums which therefore means you can't really force anyone to do anything in a public forum
RE: RE: RE: I respect  
pjcas18 : 10/22/2017 10:10 am : link
In comment 13659200 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 13657052 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


In comment 13656482 BocaGiants91 said:


Quote:


Limerick’s post, and I can see how some would feel that way about players being a walking contradiction, however , what they are doing is speaking up for those who will not or cannot be heard, which is why I am ok with that part.

Keep in mind this is just my opinion. A few thoughts:

1. When does the protest reach it’s conclusion? I’d say most Americans, unless they are under a rock are aware of the issues in this instance. What would be meaningful progress to these players? I know it’s very subjective but the progress on the issue of police brutality towards minorities may be enough for some but not be enough for others when there is progress made.

2. When Trump made his comments on this, that’s when I believe the message of the protests had been fully lost, instead of the issue being at the forefront, the act of protesting itself became the headliner.

3. The NFL is a private business entity. The owners would be well within their rights to make a rule that all players stand for the national anthem. They would not be infringing on any rights. Freedom of speech/expression has nothing to do with it, that only pertains to the government itself sensoring or persecuting individuals and organizations for their views.

4. I respect all sides of this, that’s the beauty of this country, we can all have an opinion, I always think there’s more then one path to a solution, and I think this protested issue has reached the solution stage. Instead of further protests I would be more interested in seeing meaningful discussion and solutions implemented.




This is a good post. And I would love for number 4 to come to fruition. Both sides just Protest and Yet i haven’t heard one solution put forth in regards to what both protests want to accomplish. I guess the non game watchers are angling for the players to stand and “show respect” to the military (but the protests aren’t anti military in intent.). The kneelers want some form of social justice, but how do they want it achieved? What’s the end game? This part is what’s frustrating to many of the non watchers. Someone needs to articulate this plan/view before any progress can begin to happen. Just saying cops are targeting minorities and it needs to stop isn’t going to solve this. Lay out a comprehensive plan detailing everything from specific incidents that have taken place and exactly how they can and will fix this kind of incident from happening again. Body cameras is a start, but what next?


The reason why the NFL can't really force the standing during the Anthem is that even though the teams are Private Entities the vast majority of venues they play in are not. They are for the most part publically funded stadiums which therefore means you can't really force anyone to do anything in a public forum


How can the NBA force players to stand for the anthem? Is every NBA arena privately funded?
30 year olds  
RetroJint : 10/22/2017 10:14 am : link
Don't watch anywhere near as much television as previous generations. They are more inclined to view clips from the Internet on their phones or tablets. They You Tube it up.

What's really taken off for the them are products like Verizon's Red Zone, where they can scan the whole card while keeping tabs of their fantasy teams and gambling bets.

I went to the first two home games this season. I concluded that there really are no true Giant fans anymore who are between the ages of, say, 25-40 years old . These people are cyber Fellow Travelers . They are into the food, their broads, phones and appearance .

I think for them the game itself is a distraction at best, a nuisance at worst.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I respect  
montanagiant : 10/22/2017 10:30 am : link
In comment 13659204 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13659200 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 13657052 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


In comment 13656482 BocaGiants91 said:


Quote:


Limerick’s post, and I can see how some would feel that way about players being a walking contradiction, however , what they are doing is speaking up for those who will not or cannot be heard, which is why I am ok with that part.

Keep in mind this is just my opinion. A few thoughts:

1. When does the protest reach it’s conclusion? I’d say most Americans, unless they are under a rock are aware of the issues in this instance. What would be meaningful progress to these players? I know it’s very subjective but the progress on the issue of police brutality towards minorities may be enough for some but not be enough for others when there is progress made.

2. When Trump made his comments on this, that’s when I believe the message of the protests had been fully lost, instead of the issue being at the forefront, the act of protesting itself became the headliner.

3. The NFL is a private business entity. The owners would be well within their rights to make a rule that all players stand for the national anthem. They would not be infringing on any rights. Freedom of speech/expression has nothing to do with it, that only pertains to the government itself sensoring or persecuting individuals and organizations for their views.

4. I respect all sides of this, that’s the beauty of this country, we can all have an opinion, I always think there’s more then one path to a solution, and I think this protested issue has reached the solution stage. Instead of further protests I would be more interested in seeing meaningful discussion and solutions implemented.




This is a good post. And I would love for number 4 to come to fruition. Both sides just Protest and Yet i haven’t heard one solution put forth in regards to what both protests want to accomplish. I guess the non game watchers are angling for the players to stand and “show respect” to the military (but the protests aren’t anti military in intent.). The kneelers want some form of social justice, but how do they want it achieved? What’s the end game? This part is what’s frustrating to many of the non watchers. Someone needs to articulate this plan/view before any progress can begin to happen. Just saying cops are targeting minorities and it needs to stop isn’t going to solve this. Lay out a comprehensive plan detailing everything from specific incidents that have taken place and exactly how they can and will fix this kind of incident from happening again. Body cameras is a start, but what next?


The reason why the NFL can't really force the standing during the Anthem is that even though the teams are Private Entities the vast majority of venues they play in are not. They are for the most part publically funded stadiums which therefore means you can't really force anyone to do anything in a public forum



How can the NBA force players to stand for the anthem? Is every NBA arena privately funded?

NBA has had the Standing Rule in place since at least the 90's. It's been in every team's contract with the NBA and in the CBA the players agreed to. Even with that if a player pushed it he would have a decent case.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: this is all about  
japanhead : 10/22/2017 3:16 pm : link
In comment 13658199 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 13657726 japanhead said:


Quote:


In comment 13657419 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


In comment 13657353 japanhead said:


Quote:


In comment 13655140 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 13655107 japanhead said:


Quote:


politics! just ask eric!



You sound awfully butthurt.



you've surmised that i'm butthurt because eric is a partisan hack? nah man. you've got it all wrong..



If Eric is a partisan hack, what does that make you?



i'm not partisan, bro.. i don't have a "side."



You are very offended by Eric’s side. This would put you at odds. Therefore giving you a side.


no.. i am not "very offended" by eric's side. i just think it's funny/hypocritical that the host of the site decries partisan bickering while engaging in subtle, oblique partisanship himself, and so i call it out.
Today's Giants game  
Giants_ROK : 10/22/2017 6:13 pm : link
sure isn't going to help improve the ratings.
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